Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on February 02, 2002, 09:40:49 AM
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Yesterday while surfing through the AM dial while driving to Barstow, I started listening to some political talkshow. The mere hint of Rush Limbaugh or Gloria Allred will send me leaping for the dial.
For a moment, I thought it was Pat Buchanan as the host but he turned out to be the guest.
Anyway... He was going on and on about how Dubya has committed a grave strategic error in naming the new "Axis of Evil."
I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like. "Every street fighter knows you don't go telegraphing your punch. We have just told Iran and Iraq that we're coming and given them an excuse to build weapons of mass distruction."
I don't often find myself agreeing with Pat. He's a nazi.
...but this time, he's right.
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Yes, that was the only part of his whole speech that really worried me.
Mentioning Iraq.. well, no suprise there, no problem either. He's next on the menu anyway. But when he mentioned Iran and North Korea... wow. Totally unexpected. Mentioning Iran jeapordizes the support of other arab nations the UN/US would receive in the mideast, North Korea receives a lot of aid from China. Not a pretty bunch to slap in the face telling them they're on the menu.
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Disclaimer: Way to early to tell how this is going to play out.
OK.. I think motivation works both ways. That sort of plain challenge may motivate them to prepare for war with the Great Satan. No doubt about it.
It may also make the more thoughtful people in those countries question whether or not they want to be the target of US wrath and indignation.
After all, there's some pretty clear examples of what can happen. Iraq, Gulf War. Bosnia, US-led Nato Air Campaign. Afghanistan, Taliban to New Government in 90 days or your money back.
Not tooting the US horn or making threats. Just pointing out the obvious. It's not good for your ruling party to draw that sort of attention.
You already have dissatisfied political elements in all three countries. This has to make those elements even more dissatisfied.
Like I said, too early to tell.
I'll wager there will be more minor operatons before these "big three" get the spotlight turned on them.
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Iran should not have been mentioned with Iraq and N. Korea.
The elected part of their government is moderate, the vast majority of the population is moderate (Khatami got 84% of the vote in the last election), they have been holding out olive branches to us ever since Khatami was first elected, they are the most educated country in the region other than Israel, the population is the most liberal in the region and Khatami is already walking a tight rope between what he wants and what the hardline, non-elected clerics want. Iran is potentialy our best and most stable ally in the region, even moreso than Israel, if we can help the moderates oust the conservative clerics.
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It's worth pointing out that Iran isn't of Arab ethnicity, it's Persian.
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Both Karnak and qts are correct. The only think I'd point out Karnak is that the religious sector of their government controls the judicial and police and have been cracking down on the "liberals" in that government for a couple of years. They've shut down newpapers and TV/Radio channels that were liberal by their standards, and have even gone as far as putting government officials from Katami's party in jail for talking agains the Iatola (sp i know). I gotta say though that ever person I've ever met from Iran loved the USA, period. All of them were/are very smart/intelligent but they love thier homeland.
We go to war with them and it will hurt my soul. I was lucky enough to learn about their history and culture in my teens when I was "still open minded" hehe. They are a good people led by maniacs and it will be sad if we go to war with them.
BUT :D
Nothing that Bush said was untrue. They (the government) have supported terrorists for 20+ years. I think he was right in giving the warning. You know maybe he doesn't want to go to war with them and is giving them an honest chance to clean up their acts. I doubt N.Korea or Iraq does, but in Iran this maybe possible.
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Originally posted by qts
It's worth pointing out that Iran isn't of Arab ethnicity, it's Persian.
Can the same thing be said for Iraq?
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Yesterday, Bush racheted this down to saying we are putting these countrys on a watch list.
We have a saying here in Texas. "All hat,no cattle."
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"All hat, no cattle."
LOL.. I remeber a billboard i saw outside dallas during the vietnam war..
"Buy Texas Beef, not LBJ Baloney"
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Just translate "Iran" and you will get one reason why there has been always such a hate betwen the Iranians/Persians and the semite race of the Arabs.
During the arab conquest in the 7th century the whole old cultural countries in the region like Egypt or Syria were absorbed by the arabs and gave up their old language. Instead they accepted the new thesis and today call themself Arabs and speak this language.
They also adopted the new islamic religion.
Iran was conquered by the Arabs too, but the Iranians were succesful to beware their own race, their own language and their own culture. They even changed the religion and so the ShiŽite Islam was developed.
So today the people of Iran are one of the few countries in the region with a totally other race than the semite Arabs, the semite Israelis or the Turk-races or Turkey and Azerbeidjan.
So Iran is a natural enemy of the Arab countries and it was very stupid of Bush to call Iran a terroristic country like Iraq or Northkorea.
The country has a much more modern and liberal ruling system than so called allies like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Gulf-States, Egypt or so on. They have democratic election instead of a ruling corrupt Sheikh or military ursurper.
By doing so - Bush has supported the radical elements in Iran who were loosing ground since year by year the election of the moderate president Khatami. Now these radicals and the military demand more support for the defense of Iran against a US-military attack.
This was indeed a very stupid action...
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I don't know what, who, or how some of you folks go about finding Iran as being anything but "bad guys". When I heard Bush mention Iran and North Korea..I was stunned, but I was also VERY satisfied. George W. Bush, in no uncertain terms laid it on the line for the people of the United States. These are the three countries (Iraq included) that have been the "thorn in the side" of the United States for years. Nothing would please these scum sucking people more than to see all of us dead and dying. Further, anyone who doesn't believe all three of these countries have participated, planned and executed by thier own involvment acts of terrorism...are either blind and deaf or very simply, dumb as rocks. Personally, I (sorry, no PC here) don't give a toejam about any other country or culture any more, how they feel, whether or not we insult them or make them feel bad..or wary, preferably I'll take the latter as a matter of fact. The twin towers came down because we (the CIVILIZED world) have decided for years to try let these people play thier games. Gosh, I'm so sorry the United States and the majority of her Allies are prosperous and powerful. I'm so sorry we have things others don't...and golly oh gee I'm sorry we aren't living by the extremist interpretation of the Koran.
....no wait. To hell with you and yours. Screw with us and feel our wrath. :D Have a nice day.
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ROTFL
The joke with the "civilized" was really funny - WTG !!!!
Now go back to your chewing-gum-hip-hop-gangsterRAP-McDonalds-Coca-Cola-Pepsi-civilisation and try to avoid to give your funny president uncivilized things like pretzels.
LOL
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calling a spade a spade, amazing it got so many upset :)
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Originally posted by babek-
ROTFL
The joke with the "civilized" was really funny - WTG !!!!
Now go back to your chewing-gum-hip-hop-gangsterRAP-McDonalds-Coca-Cola-Pepsi-civilisation and try to avoid to give your funny president uncivilized things like pretzels.
LOL
why not go back to you're eastern block east germany then? ;) We'll handle the war....
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Originally posted by Udie at Work
why not go back to you're eastern block east germany then? ;) We'll handle the war....
I'm still waiting for Congress to declare war...
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Well, Reagan made a speech about tearing down a wall that many viewed the same....
My interpretation of that speech was "If something like this happens again, on the same scale or larger, we WILL be heard"...or in short, we'll turn your country into the worlds largest glass parking lot.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I'm still waiting for Congress to declare war...
Well you're going to have to wait. They are the most spineless of our entire nation. I doubt 1/2 of them even understands what a declaration of war is....
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Did Iran Help al Qaeda Escape? (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,198857,00.html)
That's from TIME... not usually know as a conservative/right wing mouthpiece.
Speaks for itself, I think, especially coupled with the "Arms for Arafat" program.
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LOL - what a stupid article.
Lets see the facts:
Do you know who has been one of the strongest supporters of the Northern Alliance long before the USA started to depose the Taliban Regime ? Iran
Iran sent military advisors and troops, recruited from the 3 million afghan refugees in Iran, to the last north-east-defense lines of the Northern alliance until in 2001 the Taliban were pushed in defense.
Do you know that parts of the new afghan government consists of afghan mullahs who have iranian advisors and are strongly iranian influenced?
Do you know that the afghan city of Herat has once been part of the old Persian Empire and ties are still strong between the clans livings there and their brother clans-across the actual iranian border. So Iran strongly supported this city in the last months (and also during the war with the Taliban long before the USA intervened) with massive food and oil-transports.
Do you know that Iran nearly started a full scale war against the Taliban regime years ago, because the Taliban killed iranian embassy personal in Kabul?
Do you know that in Iran more than 3 millions refugees of the Taliban Terror live and were equipped by the Iranian officials with weapons to fight against the Taliban?
Do you know that the shiŽite religious caste of Iran had defined the Taliban as heretics who have to be hunted down until the last one?
And now you want to tell me that Iran is helping Al Quaida or Taliban?
Thats the same nonsense as the so called iranian weapon ship for the palestinians.
There were only presented so called proofs of the israeli terror-regime - and a few days ago a german political magazine in TV has shown that its more than doubtful that the israeli propaganda story of the iranian weapon ship is true. In fact it seems that it has been an israeli operation to justify their terrorism in Palestine.
But I am sure that in the next future many 150%proofs will be shown in US-TV and US-press which show that Iraq, Iran and N-Korea are absolutely guilty, so that Bush gets his legitimation to attack these countries in his justified and glorious war against terrorism.
Do you remember the beautiful young Kuwaiti woman, who was interviewed in the USA in a special press conference after the iraqi invasion of Kuwait?
She reported under tears how she w orked as nurse in a hospital in Kuwait City when iraqui soldiers entered the baby-station and killed all the babies by throwing them to ground or clashing them against walls.
She managed to flee to the USA (how logical) and now reports about the crimes.
After the war it came clear that this woman never have been in Kuwait during the invasion, that she has never worked in a hospital but in reality a member of rich caste - living and studiing in the USA and used for propaganda to raise the feeling of the US-people against the iraqi monsters.
But one thing has to be admitted - the propaganda shows made by Hollywood are really good.
They are not true, but technically made very well.
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Iran has shutdown the Tehran office of an Afgan warlord who opposes the new Afgan government... a conciliatory gesture towards the US?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45205,00.html
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Is it possible Boroda has a twin?
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I fully agree with Babek this article just show the writer complete ignorance of this part of the world .
Even an idiot know that the Taliban were supported by Saoudia and Pakistan ...
And the conflict between sunites and chiites is not new either ...
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100% agree
So the important question is: If even an idiot knows that Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan have been the strongest supporters of the Taliban regime and at least several rich families in Saudi Arabia still today support the terrorists - why they have not been mentioned in the "Axis of Evil" ?
(This is only a rhetorical question...)
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Lemme see... ummm.. oh yes,
OIL
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Its all a question of propaganda.
When pope Urban called for the 1st crusade he defined the muslims as non-human heretics.
So the invading christian troops had their legitimation when they massacred nearly the whole population of Jerusalem.
They were the good ones and the others the bad ones.
In an elder speach Bush called the operation a "crusade" - history repeats itself...
Now Bush speeks about the Axis of Evil - Axis was the term for the bad guys in WW2 (while you have to consider that the later bad guy USSR was in these times one of the good guys :D ).
People are easy to manipulate - especially in a perfect media system like the Wag-the-Dog-country.
If you believe that you are fighting for a legitime cause, for the good side and for the glorious future of your people, you do things and ignore others, which you would not do under normal circumstances.
The problem is that always innocents have to pay the price: The civilians who loose their relatives in the battles and the soldiers who have to die because of such politicians.
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Originally posted by babek-
If you believe that you are fighting for a legitime cause, for the good side and for the glorious future of your people, you do things and ignore others, which you would not do under normal circumstances.
The problem is that always innocents have to pay the price: The civilians who loose their relatives in the battles and the soldiers who have to die because of such politicians.
Man this guy makes sense. What's the big hubub anyway? The mean ol US antogonistic imperialistic mean ppls should take the terrorism like men and turn the other cheek. I mean the US is acting like having people want to blow up our women and children along with themselves is a big deal.
It's all our fault, we are a rich country, they are not, so lets take the terrorism like men.
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Its time the US annexed the rest of the world. Time for a 1 world 1 democracy century ;)
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Well, SOMEBODY got a little motivation, didn't they? (http://www.usatoday.com/news/attack/2002/02/14/iran-arrests.htm)
"TEHRAN, Iran (AP) Authorities arrested some 150 people, including European, Arab and African nationals who entered Iran from Pakistan and are questioning them over any links to the Taliban or al-Qaeda, the state news agency said Thursday."
Coincidence? :D