Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunthr on February 02, 2002, 07:41:59 PM
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An excerpt from an article written by a journalist who visited Cuba:
"...By comparison, the al Qaedans look pretty fat, if not happy. They laze away in the shade of their cells. They sleep on inch-and-a-half-thick isomats, the same ones that are issued to our military. With the assistance of a Muslim Navy chaplain, they pray five times daily. (Quick studies, the al Qaedans didn't need arrows painted on their cell floors. A single signpost next to an American flag points the way to Mecca.) And while American prisoners in the Hanoi Hilton often spent years in solitary confinement and received no medical care (John McCain to this day can't comb his own hair), X-Ray detainees get daily sick calls from all manner of doctors, from optometrists to podiatrists. The prisoners (who represent about 25 different nationalities but mostly are Saudis) can also freely chat with each other about God knows what: prison uprisings, the demise of Talk magazine, trades of Froot Loops for garlic bagel chips.
Their restroom arrangements are pretty spartan. They get a white bucket for emergency squirts, while they are instructed to hold two fingers up for the alternative. At that time, a guard shackles them and takes them to the port-o-loo. While the military has spared no expense in construction costs (in three weeks, they built a completely operational field hospital staffed by 160 medical personnel--two more than there are prisoners), they've saved a fortune in toilet paper. It's the detainees' cultural preference not to use any. "We don't shake their hands," says one camp guard.
In addition to the aforementioned amenities, detainees also receive two towels, a Koran, a shortened toothbrush (still long enough to file into a shiv), a canteen, a bucket of water, fluoride toothpaste, and shampoo. Not just any shampoo, but "Lively" salon anti-dandruff shampoo--a "luxurious shampoo in a gentle formula that restores moisture, shine, and body to your beautifully clean hair." Those who think the prisoners are getting coddled (Rep. John Mica, a Florida Republican, visited the camp and said it's "too good for the bastards") will be happy to know that the shampoo is not jojoba-enriched.
WHILE public affairs officers these days are going to great lengths to talk about how docile the prisoners are, detainees have been reported biting a guard, spitting, and threatening to kill Americans. When I skirt away from my minders and visit the Marine snipers' tent, I learn it went well beyond that.
The snipers, of course, are the camp's deadliest sharpshooters, ropy young bucks (21-23 years of age) who seem largely culled from the western or southern United States, where firearms are often regarded as extra appendages. Their tent looks like a Marines-issued college dorm room: Skoal-juice bottles, laundry hanging everywhere, and a spade-like sniper insignia banner tacked to a tent wall. If there is a prison uprising, it is these gentleman who will man the guard towers and introduce the rioters to their 72 black-eyed virgins.
At some point, that might become necessary, they tell me, as plotting is obviously afoot. Sgt. Matt Lampert of Montana says the other day one of the prisoners was caught "with a piece of cloth stuffed with rocks that was tied off at the end." Sgt. Rodney Davis says that during chowtime, he sees them through his scope "making terrain models out of their food." And unlike say, Afghan prisons, where starving detainees are reportedly begging to be sent to Gitmo, there's plenty of food to play with. "They get fed better than us, sir," says Lampert. When I ask the Marines if they've seen anything weird, they laugh sheepishly, looking at each other. Finally, Sgt. Josh Westbrook, who sports a forearm tattoo of flaming baby heads, steps up. "They know they're being watched," he explains, "so they'll stare at you, and while they stare at you, they'll, uh, masturbate."
According to these Marines, they don't just pleasure themselves to freak out the snipers, but also to embarrass the female Army guards in the camp's interior. The weirdness doesn't end there. They've also eaten their toiletries and urinated on equipment. "The other day," says Westbrook, "one of the guys tried to do a naked cartwheel." In the most bizarre twist, Lance Corporal Devin Klebaur says a few have also been known to "put toothpaste in their ass." "What's the purpose?" I ask. "I'm not sure," he says, puzzled.
After leaving the snipers, I collar other grunts who say they believe the prisoners are more apt to act out whenever they see one of the regular visitors from the International Committee of the Red Cross enter the camp. "They're looking to be disciplined," says one, so that any aggressive guard behavior will make it look as if they're being brutalized by the American military in front of international witnesses. ICRC visits, says another soldier, are the highlight of a prisoner's day, since they've been spotted "giving the unshackled prisoners cookies and milk, cigarettes, shaking their hands." Many organizations who haven't been to Gitmo, like Human Rights Watch, have been extremely critical of the prisoners' treatment, while the ICRC has aired no complaints. Still, says another soldier, "They're a pain in the ass. We see them offering them cookies, hugging them like they're best buddies. They're undermining everything we're trying to do."
What we're trying to do isn't exactly clear at this point. We are certainly interrogating the prisoners, though base sources won't divulge any information that's been gleaned. The prisoners will likely be formally charged and tried, though when I called a senior Pentagon source to find out by whom and when, the source said, "If you find out, will you please tell me?"
ON SUNDAY, Rumsfeld visits, and we hope for illumination. Sitting on a bus on the tarmac, waiting for the secretary to emerge from his plane, we pass the time as journalists do, discussing the AP-style spelling of "bin Laden," speculating whether the prisoners will get an Internet cafe (one of them has asked for video games), and making fun of the fresh-meat Pentagon press corps, who are overdressed in heavy wools instead of our much cooler island linens.
One of Rumsfeld's security agents mounts our bus, telling us the ground rules: no photos on the tarmac, no fighting, no hitting Rumsfeld in the head with a boom mike. After Rumsfeld tours Camp X-Ray with four senators and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers (who is so overshadowed by the secretary's rock star aura that one reporter has to ask who he is), Rumsfeld meets the press on Heartbreak Ridge. He gives the sort of hooah performance that has endeared him to both the troops and the press. While he remains as firm as ever that the detainees are "illegal combatants," not "prisoners of war," which would afford them more rights under the Geneva Convention, he nicely avoids plucking the only hair worth splitting--whether the captives' status is his call. (Human rights hawks say the matter should be decided by a "competent tribunal," whatever that is.)
Even if it isn't up to Rumsfeld, the argument seems rather academic. It's hard to imagine anyone who has actually read the Geneva Convention wanting to confer POW status on alleged al Qaeda members. Doing so would not only make the terrorists eligible for repatriation to their home countries, but also would forbid their being punished for trying to escape, allow them to receive "scientific equipment" from home, and even confer upon them the right to dentures--in case they lost their teeth while, say, biting a guard. Most ludicrous, they would be afforded "advances of pay" in an amount "never . . . inferior" to that which we pay our own armed forces. If you're a terrorist from Central Asia, it's not a bad deal: Kill Americans, get arrested, then get a pay raise from America.
With all the global bellyaching about the detainees' right to humane treatment, it's hard to imagine them getting better treatment than they're already receiving. On my last day at Gitmo, all I have time to eat is a stale Ding Dong and a greasy plate of onion rings. My public affairs keepers couldn't care less. By contrast, for breakfast and lunch alone, the prisoners are served oatmeal, an orange, peanut butter, margarine, a "culturally appropriate" halal meal, and a giant snack pack containing Froot Loops, raisins, a Nature Valley granola bar, baked garlic bagel chips, and Bullseye barbecue-seasoned sunflower kernels. Still, the overseers of the prison are concerned that detainees aren't getting enough pita bread with their meals, and they're planning to make the food spicier, just the way the prisoners like it back home.
While we wait, we journalists have to stand in the hot sun most of the day. After hours, we are confined to our Consolidated Bachelor Quarters, sleeping four to a duplex room on cots, some without pillows or blankets. We aren't even allowed to go the beach, a few hundred yards away from our building (though, emboldened by the rum we imported from Puerto Rico, a colleague and I make a mad dash under a guard searchlight for the bathwater Caribbean anyway). Besides drinking, our only entertainment is a pool table--one cue is cracked, the other is missing its tip. The prisoners, by contrast, get to read their Korans, while novels and more "religious books" are on the way.
At the end of their day, they get a good night's sleep in a single cell. At the end of our day, we are told that a C-141 (the same plane that transported the detainees) just became available, and we are prematurely hustled off so the military can dump us in Nowheresville, New Jersey, on a Sunday night after every rental car place in the state has closed.
Complete article : http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/856fcmtf.asp
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What a load of bollocks....it would've been better just to save a bit of time, and just write:
Look how good they've got it ( apart from being imprisoned and possibly being put to death ), now shut the hell up and let us do what we want in peace.
And to think he had the hide to slam the British tabloid press, and dress this garbage up as journalism...
Tronsky
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The British tabloids are delighted... it's the first time anyone has taken them seriously for years. Anyone with half a brain cell can see it's just self-publicizing bleating... but then that's quite a lofty requirement I guess, going by some of the stuff I've read in the American press.
And what was that crap Rumsfeld was saying the other day? "Err... the British can have back the British suspects, if they promise to give us any intelligence they might find." What? The US relies on British listening stations for Mid-East intelligence. There's one such place less than a hundred miles from this computer. Either his aides brief him very badly or he's off his head.
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Only trotski could complain about such abhorrent conditions...... :rolleyes:
Come on why not just say what you really mean, as in:
I hate the USA!
I hate the USA!
Come on now and be honest here my little leftist friend.....
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Grunherz, disagreement with US policy and practice does not US-hater make.
And a little clue to you, too - calling people leftist isn't the epithet you seem to believe it is.
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He hates the USA, the only people who complain about the rediculosly generous treatment at Gitmo are USA haters. toejam not even the Al Qaeda are complaining, some are actually begging to be sent there from Afgah prisons. So in the end the only people who complain are leftist communist type USA haters, like our comrade trotsi here.
BTW leftist does not equate to liberal or democrat, its more like left wing nazis or left wing KKK.
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Originally posted by -tronski-
What a load of bollocks....it would've been better just to save a bit of time, and just write:
Look how good they've got it ( apart from being imprisoned and possibly being put to death ), now shut the hell up and let us do what we want in peace.
And to think he had the hide to slam the British tabloid press, and dress this garbage up as journalism...
Tronsky
Why don't you just grab a Koran, a diaper for your head and an AK-47 and find a non-terrorist to shoot...amazinhunk.
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Originally posted by Dowding
And what was that crap Rumsfeld was saying the other day? "Err... the British can have back the British suspects, if they promise to give us any intelligence they might find." What? The US relies on British listening stations for Mid-East intelligence. There's one such place less than a hundred miles from this computer. Either his aides brief him very badly or he's off his head.
Dowding..you are typing with your bellybutton again, congratulations on developing that particular method. The U.S. hardly relies on the Brits for listening stations, what a joke. If you really think thats the case, forgive me, I thought you were other than stupid. This is not a 1960's 007 movie. I suppose your going infrom us how you live somewhat near the JAC lol...as though they actually do any listening. Oh wait...maybe Chicksands?...sorry...closed years ago. Your about 20yrs behind the times my friend. I don't have anything against the Brits, very honorable people who've gone beyond thier own call to duty to lend a helping hand to the war on terroism. I work with them daily, please don't try and lecture anyone on thier "superiority". We are in this thing together whether you like Blair or not (who I also consider one of the greatest leaders of our time). If you want to badmouth anyone, please direct your attention to the French, we both know you'll get much further lol.
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Oh and by the way.
IMHO, I would truly love to see every last filthy terrorist at GITMO executed. 5 a day (following prayer time).
Method: Catapult them into a brick wall, and broadcast the show live on international television (BBC oughtta cover it).
How's that for squeaky clean treatment? F'em, every last one.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Method: Catapult them into a brick wall, and broadcast the show live on international television (BBC oughtta cover it).
ROFL!!
I would actually pay to see that.
This has got to be the most creative solution to the al queida problem I have heard yet. It raises a couple of questions though. What kind of catapult to use, what range between the catapult and the brick wall etc etc. My idea would be to use a Trebuchet (sp) type Catapult, and have the brick wall 4-600 feet away. That way people could bet on wheter the catapulteers(?) -the guys that operate the catapults, would be able to hit. Or we could combine the suicide bombing tecnique with the catapult method. Strap on 40kg:s of dynamite on a terrorist, shoot him off with the catapult and detonate the dynamite in mid-air. Something for the 4th of July?
Another interesting idea would be this: I have heard that the catapults on the modern fleet carriers can hurl a VW car 1,5 km:s. How about we find out how far it can throw a bus loaded with terrorists.
The possibilities are endless.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Why don't you just grab a Koran, a diaper for your head and an AK-47 and find a non-terrorist to shoot...amazinhunk.
LOL.
settle pettle, you'll get all teary soon
Tronsky
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
He hates the USA, the only people who complain about the rediculosly generous treatment at Gitmo are USA haters. toejam not even the Al Qaeda are complaining, some are actually begging to be sent there from Afgah prisons. So in the end the only people who complain are leftist communist type USA haters, like our comrade trotsi here.
BTW leftist does not equate to liberal or democrat, its more like left wing nazis or left wing KKK.
Left wing nazi???? Left wing KKK???
LEFTIST: noun /a member of a socialist or radical party or a person sympathising with their views.
Macquarie Concise Dictionary
Insulting you is like shooting fish in a barrell, and the fact you're such a special case it hardly seems fair to do so.
I doubt that you even understand what I wrote was about the pathetic jorno, but because no doubt you whole heartedly agree with the propoganda spewing from that cough journalism you too busy thinking up nasty little coldwar era insults at anyone who would dare to disagree.
Being called a lefty would probably be insulting if I was 12, and this was 50's Macarthyism at its height...
Being liberal in the country basically equates to voting conservative...so even calling me a liberal would hardly make me quiver.... I figure u probably call me Trotski after the communist leader..and I would no doubt think that kinda makes you a little hard, after all you've got one over me even tho you aren't even remotely close. But don't let a little fact spoil your day.
And disagreeing with something doesn't make you a USA hater, although in your petty, tiny little mind it somehow made some sense that way.
But then i doubt you even understand half the crap you spew at times.
It's funny that freedom is only afforded to the "righteous", and those who follow the company line.
I await in earnest at your next diatribe. No doubt brimming with insults a 10 yr old girl guide would be proud of, even better a short sharp middle english word of german origin ending in you, or off, you know... something intelligent.
Tronski
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I dont see why you are confused with the idea of a "left wing KKK". Commonly the KKK is seen as a very right wing idea. You are to left what they are commonly seen to the right.
As for nazis its quite simmilar.
Though in reality the nazis were pretty left wing in most of their views except of course nationalism. NSDAP National SOZIALISTISCHER Deuthcher ARBEITER Partei. Plenty left wing there right with the nationalism.
But lemme ask you this and please just answer with YES/NO. Ok?
Do you think the Gitmo inmates are being treated inhumanely?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But lemme ask you this and please just answer with YES/NO. Ok?
Do you think the Gitmo inmates are being treated inhumanely?
Hey pal... If they aint gettin blown daily it's inhumane! :D
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Grunherz/tumor, it seems that you label anyone who criticises the US govt a traitor/terrorist sympathizer/USA hater.
Do you not see a problem in blindly following whatever Bush and the govt says? If you don't you might aswell be living in a dictatorship.
Read the article- not too impressed with it either. The site seemed to be very pro-American, it didn't criticise America/Bush for anything. The site might aswell be run by Bush himself.
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Its a pattern for trotski- he really does hate the USA. Plus anyone who would criticize our babying treatment of those criminals in Cuba as human rights abuse is either nuts or hates the USA.
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Aside from the author's artificially breezy style of writing, which I don't like at all, this piece does provide some insight on the treatment of the camp's prisoners.
I'm caught off guard at the emotional reaction some have to this information. Is there some huge controversy over this that I'm not aware of, or something?
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Tumor - I think you'll find Fylingdales would be key to Rumsfeld's NMD program. I perhaps wasn't very accurate in my description of its distance from my location - it's much less than 100 miles, perhaps closer to 70. As an overvierw FYI:
"As well as its Early Warning Function, Fylingdales also forms part of the Space Surveillance Network (SSN), an intelligence network that tracks and maintains a catalogue of space objects (military and civilian satellites and space debris).
Fylingdales is therefore a significant command, control, communications and intelligence installation. Information gathered by the radar installation is fed directly to the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) in Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado. From there information is passed to the National Command authorities and to Headquarters, Strategic Air Command (SAC). In time of war, it would provide the US President with information on what has and has not been attacked, monitor trajectories of both surveillance satellites and incoming ballistic missiles and allow prioritising and accurate response and targeting on "enemy" satellites and ballistic missiles. "
Considering Flyingdales is one of only 3 stations covering the North Atlantic (the others being in Greenland and Alaska), I'd say it's pretty damned important to US defence. Which is why even suggesting that Britain wouldn't pass information on to the US is a little stupid to say the least.
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Originally posted by thrila
Grunherz/tumor, it seems that you label anyone who criticises the US govt a traitor/terrorist sympathizer/USA hater.
Do you not see a problem in blindly following whatever Bush and the govt says? If you don't you might aswell be living in a dictatorship.
Read the article- not too impressed with it either. The site seemed to be very pro-American, it didn't criticise America/Bush for anything. The site might aswell be run by Bush himself.
Bush is the President and I happen to like him, I don't really care whether you do or not.
"Your with us, or your against us" Need there be any more clarity? I'll blindly follow Bush as long as there are other's in the world that blindly hate the U.S. I'll stick with my Presidents view's as there are other's who's ultimate goal is to undermine anything he does. I'll choose to have a leader, I'm not above that. I'll also continue to follow the order's of my Commander in Chief, just like I did under that bellybutton Clinton.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Tumor - I think you'll find Fylingdales would be key to Rumsfeld's NMD program. I perhaps wasn't very accurate in my description of its distance from my location - it's much less than 100 miles, perhaps closer to 70. As an overvierw FYI:
Considering Flyingdales is one of only 3 stations covering the North Atlantic (the others being in Greenland and Alaska), I'd say it's pretty damned important to US defence. Which is why even suggesting that Britain wouldn't pass information on to the US is a little stupid to say the least.
Apples and oranges Dowding. Flyingdales is not a listening station, it's "part" of a tracking system. Watching for incoming missile's and databasing objects in space are entirely different from collecting intelligence.
At this point in time, I have to go with Rumsfield, however I'd take it further. I wouldn't turn ANYONE over until we were done with them, period. The U.S. and U.K. do share and uncommon friendship among nations, however, we are talking about information of great intelligence value. Once you get intelligence services and agencies involved, all bets are off. These people keep information from eachother within thier own agencies, there's no WAY I would trust the U.K. to turn over all the information they learned, I wouldn't expect the U.K. to trust the U.S. on this issue either.
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I dont see why you are confused with the idea of a "left wing KKK". Commonly the KKK is seen as a very right wing idea. You are to left what they are commonly seen to the right.
Huh?
I know you needed to use an inflammatory term like the KKK to somehow back up your argument, but thats the worst example of an explanation..it doesn't even make sense.
Though in reality the nazis were pretty left wing in most of their views except of course nationalism. NSDAP National SOZIALISTISCHER Deuthcher ARBEITER Partei. Plenty left wing there right with the nationalism.
Ahhh sorry to dissapoint you, but the NSDAP were socialist in name only.
But lemme ask you this and please just answer with YES/NO. Ok? Do you think the Gitmo inmates are being treated inhumanely?
NO, I do not think the Al-Qaeda, and Taliban prisoners are being treated inhumanely.
Happy now?
Somehow I doubt it....
Tronsky