Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JustinBbad on February 04, 2002, 08:05:09 AM
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I thought I would give this game a try and see how it is. I am an avid WWII Online player, I thoughly enjoy that game. What I was kind of looking for in this thread was opinions from people who play both games NOW. For those of you who played it back in June, July, August, or September, don't even bother throwing you opinions in here because WWII Online is a completely different game now, much better. If fact, they are offering a two week trial for free, download the game (same thing I am doing here) and you will get to check it out.
Ok, so what is the replay value for this game? Do you find it worth it? I know I pay 10 dollars a month for WWII Online and this is 15.
Thanks,
Justin
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This is pathetic. Go away Hardcase ;)
Westy
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Originally posted by JustinBbad
I thought I would give this game a try and see how it is. I am an avid WWII Online player, I thoughly enjoy that game.
:confused: :confused:
You're giving this game a try while you're an avid WWIIOL player??? How bizarre...or maybe it's my poor knowledge of english...
Anyway, I'll give it a try myself...
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umm......ok, why did I strike a wrong cord?
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I think you should move this post to the "O'club".
ps) if this is a troll attempt.. not a very good one. :D
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I don't quite understand why I am getting this type of response. All I wanted to know was how this game stacked up against WWII Online. By the way, saying I am an avid WWII Online player doesn't mean I play that game exclusively. Perhaps you are the one mistaken.
Justin
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Justin-
We get alot of posts exactly like this, and most of them are people using a new name, trying to start a flame war.
That's why your getting the response you see. This topic has been covered ad nauseum in AH vs WWIIOL, AH vs. WB, AH vs. AW, etc.
You might want to page through the threads and see if tis topic is still archived and you'll find your answer.
Bottom line, play the game, and decide for yourself.
I've not tried WWIIOL as I am very happy here, so I cannot offer you an educated opinion.
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Justin, no comparisson.
This game has real flight models.
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Justin,
I think that many (me included) thought that you were coming to this BBS and saying that you were downloading the free trial of WW2OL. After I read the rest of your posts and then re-read your first, I realise now that you meant that you were a WW2OL player and that you were DLing AH.
I think that you will find that many here tried WW2OL when it first came out, but have not tried it since. You can find a current thread about it on this BBS here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44091
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Thanks Mickey! Now I understand what he was saying.
Hello Justin, sorry for misunderstanding. You should like AH IF you're mostly interested in flying planes. Learning curve is steep, but it's worth the patience and effort.
I'll download the 14-days trial of WWIIOL myself and give it a try this evening ;)
See you,
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Yeah, perhaps I could have worded it better, but the truth be known, I was downloading the trial for Aces High. I didn't mean to come in a try to start a flame war.
Justin
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Originally posted by JustinBbad
I thought I would give this game a try and see how it is. I am an avid WWII Online player, I thoughly enjoy that game. What I was kind of looking for in this thread was opinions from people who play both games NOW. For those of you who played it back in June, July, August, or September, don't even bother throwing you opinions in here because WWII Online is a completely different game now, much better. If fact, they are offering a two week trial for free, download the game (same thing I am doing here) and you will get to check it out.
Ok, so what is the replay value for this game? Do you find it worth it? I know I pay 10 dollars a month for WWII Online and this is 15.
Thanks,
Justin
As someone who used to play WW2OL until recently, this game is worth the extra $5 bucks.
WW2OL hasn't changed a bit since the beginning. Sure, it might have some more planes than it did first started but with the same unrealistic flight model. The lag problem hasn't improved at all since the summer and sometimes it's worse than it was back then. Frame rates were a problem for a lot of people, even those with high end systems and they still are. The alt+tab arrow cursor cheat is still around, even though it was supposed to be fixed way back with the 1.20 update. The only difference IMO from WW2OL 1.52 version and the debut version is the load times are shorter, otherwise it's the same bug infested POS it was back in June.
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I appreciate your comments regarding Aces High, but I feel I have to disagree with your take on WWII Online. Since the summer many new vehicles have been added as you said, but more importantly, the stability of the game has increased. No longer are CTD's a major issue, connectivity is greatly increased, and frame rates have increased, at least on my end. Not to mention the addition to the map of more than 40 cities and much more terrain to hide in. In fact I could not disagree with you more on you calling it a POS. I think it is the best "unknown" game out there.
Justin
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Justin,
Learn this game.. give it an honest try. It takes a while.
Like others have said, the learning curve is steep due to realistic flight models, etc.
Once you've learned to fly effectively in AH I doubt you'll be going back to WWII online. At least not for the flight sim part. :)
There are many extremely talented pilots online in AH and that can add to the frustration of first time players ... learn the flight model, practice practice practice... hook up with a squad or at leas a wingman and you'll be on your way.
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WWIIOL is one heck of a good tank sim if you don't mind the lack the ground clutter. If you just pretend that you are fighting in the dessert (sans dust) it kind of works.
The WWIIOL FM though leaves a lot to desired though. It has been a bit since I played but used to have a good time lowering the flaps on the ME109 and doing strafing runs at 27mph. Other folks would swear the Stuka was best stall fighter in the game.
The one thing WWIIOL has that this does not is infantry. But, and this is a big "but," city fighting as infantry is pretty much like slugging it out in the mall parking lot. Most of the buildings are locked, there is no cover, and it is more or less you against the tanks.
So, answering this question for air combat only, here is what I think:
AH: Best flight model but damage model does not seem to be there. (Oh come on, we have all flown around furballing in a burning Zeke. Just admit it.)
WB: Best damage model (by far) and the graphics are very good but the FM seems more "tweaked" to the designer's preconceived notions to me. For example the FW190-D9 in WB turns simply horridly, the B-25 on the other hand seems quite nimble.
WWIIOL: Damage model does not seem to exist at all. Lag makes furballs impossible. FM allows more or less infinite E. (The ME109 used to actually gain alt doing loops.)
DoA: I'm also going to toss out "Dawn of Aces" here which is the old Warbirds (2.07?) version but with a very small set of WWI aircraft. Graphics and game play are a bit old fashoned but the FM is wonderful and the community is the best I've ever played with online. (Eh-hem, I of course mean the best community outside those who read this board. Yeah, that's it.)
SDOE: There is also "Screaming Demons Over Europe" with which I have no experience with at all.
For myself, it is all just killing time until "Birds of Prey" is released. (http://www.wingswithwires.com)
Hope I helped. Glad to have you on board.
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HFMudd, your comments show your lack of knowledge of the recent changes to the game. As far as ground clutter, you have no idea what it is like now, there is ground clutter everywhere. Tanks can hide behind hedgerows, lines of trees, approaching inf can sometimes sneak into town unnoticed. So if that respect the game has changed immensily. As far as the flight model, the Stuka has been tweaked to limit its turning ability and its stall speed as well as some other items. I have very limited knowlege about the technical aspects of the development, but it seems as though CRS is taking a different approach to the flight model. These guys are old Warbirds developers and it seems they have made a base physics program where they input the characteristics of the plane (power, wing span, weight, alieron size, all the pertant information) and through this the program develops how the plane would behave in real life. Once again, some tweaking is being worked out, but I am a big fan of the Flight sim aspect of the game.
Thanks for the continued comments,
Justin
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Justin,
Are you at all interested in AH, or are you here to blow WWIIOL's horn?
I think I know the answer, but hope you prove me wrong.
F.
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Mudd... you want a damage model?
Forget Wb.. try IL2.. now that's what I call a damage model.
Exposed struts, skin peeling off, holes and debris everywhere..
etc etc.
Justin, you must be joking about the WWII online flight model.. it is nowhere near accurate. Simply compare the way they fly in the game to real aircraft... nuff said
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I've heard a lot of great things about IL-2. One of these I need to actualy play the demo I downloaded.
But, I want to be sure that we are not confusing what I mean when I say "damage model" with the graphical representation of the damage. In WBIII the possibility that a round passes through the wing, doing some minor damage, and then hits the engine is modeled. I don't think AH does that. WWIIOnline takes this even farther so far as ground vehicles go modeling even the angle a round hits the armor at and spalling from HE rounds.
Justin, while WWIIOnline didn't make cut so far as my $ go, I do still read the forums from time to time and examine the screen shots because I *want* that game to work. I was one of people that plunked their money down on day one and played it until they began to charge. (Sorry, I just didn't feel that I had yet purchased the game described on the box.) You are correct, there are a heck of a lot more bushes now than before. There still does not seem to be any rubble in the cities though. (Although I gather that due to a new clipping bug one can hide inside a wall and be invisible.) If CRS can figure out a way to make INFANTRY *fun* to play then I'll give it another try.
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I believe the graphical representation of damage in IL2 matches the actual damage ... but unfortunately I'm not certain.
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Play the game and find out for yourself. That's why the free download and two week trial are there.
Why bother even coming here and asking our oppinions on it? Seems it would be obvious which one most here prefer.
AKDejaVu
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Justin,
go away, silly person
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whats your wwiiol nic justin?
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I have ben playing AH offline some and the flight models seem pretty cool, I like the smoke trailing the bullets it adds something that WWII Online doesn't represent very well. Haven't tried to jump into the game yet, I don't want to be one of those newbies asking a bunch of questions.
Oh, and my name in WWII Online is JStevens and I to reside in Jacksonville, Florida.
Is John Clease from Monty Python series?
Justin
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Is John Cleese from Monty Python?.......
does 'man with three buttocks' not ring a bell?
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On the other hand WW2OL went over 3000 players on line tonight...... Without any warping. WW2OL has a few bugs but warping isn't one of them....
CAV
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<<>>
I am certain that the graphics damage do NOT match the FM damage in the IL2 Demo, dunno about the real game. I once shot the horiz stab off a FW 189 with 37mm and it kept on going. I had to finish it off with mgs. I also hit a Ju-88 with 4 or 5 37mm from close range before it eventually decided to blow up. Yes, I have films.
ra
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Try flying with ~3000 people on CAV. Or man a flak gun and try shooting down the planes. Whole nuther story ( from what I've seen). As a grunt or tank I did not see many other grunts or tanks lag or warp (untill they were enemy and they got close) but the air-ar and air-ground segments have big problems with it.
-- Westy
(As for a 'few' bugs? lol. you must be using the new George Orwell inspired "Ratspeak" it's ridden with bugs from the gui all the way thru and into the actual gameplay)
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the boxed version is different.
once a surface is destroyed.. it doesn't work.
actually, I once downloaded the demo and wasn't impressed.
the boxed version is a different animal.
totally impressed, totally immersive.
lol.. and you start out with clean cockpit glass .. unlike the demo where you couldn't see squat.
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I've played both since they came out. AH is hands down the best mmog flight sim every produced, by far, nothing else even comes close. Flight model in WWII online is laughible, or would be if they didnt charge ya $40.00 for it. That said, wwii online simulates the ground war very nicely and certainly runs much smoother than it did. Finding a good fight in wwii online is difficult without getting killed a bunch of times finding out whats around you. It's organized poorly and no one talks to each other because they're busy fighting. They need more situational awareness type tools.
CRASH
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I think it is interesting, no-one posted a URL for this 2 week free trial of wwII online or what ever it is called.
Blutik
duh
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Here you go, your URL to WW2OL....
http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/index.jsp
(http://www.playnet.com/wwiiol_images/gigex.gif)
you must be using the new George Orwell inspired "Ratspeak"
Yea... maybe I am, but Hey I like WW2OL. It gets under your skin, somedays it makes me MAD as hell. But I keep going back to play, I can't stop myself. Its alot like Air Warrior was in the good old days. AH is a fun sim, but its still missing something, something that AW had and WW2OL may have.... for me anyway.
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WW2OL hasn't changed a bit since the beginning. Sure, it might have some more planes than it did first started but with the same unrealistic flight model. The lag problem hasn't improved at all since the summer and sometimes it's worse than it was back then. Frame rates were a problem for a lot of people, even those with high end systems and they still are. The alt+tab arrow cursor cheat is still around, even though it was supposed to be fixed way back with the 1.20 update. The only difference IMO from WW2OL 1.52 version and the debut version is the load times are shorter, otherwise it's the same bug infested POS it was back in June.
For my experience WWIIOL is totally different game that it was last summer. I tried it shortly and then decided not to open account because it was so slow and buggy.
Now I spend practically all of my online time in WWIIOL. Why?
I have been intensively playing WWIIOL over a month now (most evenings few hours, sometimes 6 hours on row) and I have had one disco and one server crash. For me, it is as stable as AH has been on best times.
Hard to say anything conclusive about the FM since I haven't flown a real WWII plane. I think planes retain energy too well but on the other hand it has features that far surpass WB or AH FM's.
It is somewhat useless to compare AH and WWIIOL. One is dedicated flight sim and other is an electronic battlefield. Everybody can make his/her decision by their own preference.
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WW2OL ground war is very fun. Terrains are nice, you can hide behind hedgerows and trees. You can use real hull down tactics and thats fine. Jochen is right: some aspects of WW2OL's FM are better than AH's one, but other are (imho) weird. Planes can loop forever but their stall behaviour is sometimes very nasty. However, what made me close my WW2OL account was the difficulty to find dogfights and join with fellows in the arena.
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I tested WWIIOL offline yesterday (yeah, I know, it sounds a bit odd), and I was quite impressed with the FM...maybe because I was expecting something as arcadish as OFP's FM. I can't tell about E-retention, because I haven't taken part to a fight yet, but high speed stall do exist, the wing drop of the Hawk 75 is nasty, ground handling is much more difficult than in AH....
Besides, it's the first sim that models the 109's slats correctly: banging open or shutting close violently (not like IL2 demo), most of times asymetrically.
This is not a complete review by far, but first impressions are much better than what I was expecting. I'll sign up for the 14 days free trial this evening.
Jochen, do you have a link to flying and fighting tips? I remember having read a thread about how to adjust the 109's horizontal stab, but I can't find it anymore :o . Thanks.
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To compare is apples and oranges. I like both, and play both.
WW2 online does not have the nice graphics engine and great flight model as Aces High, but the Ground game is a blast.
Both games are great to play.
ATC The Damned
DamnedATC in ww2online
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I played WWII Online up to the 1.5 patch.
My take on it is:
Infantry: only reason for them is to capture buildings before the tanks kill them. In me experience there is very little Inf-Inf except during base captures.
anti-tank guns: your lucky if you find anyone to tow you into position or it is a long way pushing. moderately effective weapons.
Tanks: This is what most everyone is in. Big tank battles around cities.
Aircraft: The flight model is a bit goofy. With the accelerated time in game I flew a Hawker Hurricane for over 13 hours (big fuel tanks I guess). I took off at 1830 just before sundown I orbitted a town as a spotter for tanks on the ground through the entire night landed back at base at 0830 the next morning. I never saw another enemy aircraft during that flight.
I have a 1GHZ athlon system witha GF2 64 meg AGP card 512 meg ram. I would get between 18-22 FPS as an infantryman sitting on a tank riding, nothing but scenery in front of me. now I consider this a HUGE problem. The FPS should have been a whole lot better.
Drifter
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"It is somewhat useless to compare AH and WWIIOL."
True. The only reason to, imo, is they acompete for a players onlien time. And when it's as little as it is only one will get mine and along with that of course would be my subscription ($$).
Since last Friday, when the free tiral opened, I've played it every night for an hour or more. It is fun fighting on the ground. I LOVE ther terrain and over all "atmosphere" they built. I just hate the WWIOnline program itself. And I'm doing "just ok" with a PIII600 - even though the box specs state at least HALF half what they should be. I have that WWIIOnline love-hate bug now too :). However the "hate" is winning out for many reason.
The bugs, lousy sound system, low fidelity graphics, bad programming choices (bias settings on the 64 con limit being the biggy there) and big holes in the gameplay will have me passing it up when the trial ends. IMO it's just still far from prime time material and I dont' find the fun warrants buying the box and paying $10/mo. I'll miss some of it for sure. crawling through grass, dragging an anti tank gun into an ambush position or charging a t(38) thru a filed to flank the enemy.
I went into more detail in the topic on WWIIOnline in the OC forumn. Which is where this one belongs too.
My main thought about WWIIOnline is how much of a bad bellybutton game-sim it would have been had the HTC been either involved with it, or better yet, just down right did it themselves. If HTC ever came out with a terrain and 'environment' like WWIIOnline has I would upgrade my PC to handle it in a heart beat. By hook or by crook I'd make sure I could play it as thier (HTC) ability to develop and execute is one not only envied by the others but one their customers can bank on too.
Westy
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well i ordered WW2ol from america and payed through the nose for it.
It was unfinished then and during the 2 week free trial thing i updated and tried it again.
It still feels unfinished, still has trouble with registering hits(ive shot point blank at troops and seen no hits),
It still requires a REDICULOUS computer to run it!
900 athlon,GF2,512MB ram, ADSL connect and it still struggles with frame rates
BASICALLY? A diddlying rip off.
I love the idea of the game.Love the look of it. but cornered RATS is exactly what they were. Cornered by their publishers they released an unfinished product.Started charging money for a game that didnt even have what it said it had on the box.
THE FREE MONTH? well i was away on holiday when my free month started! those bastards started my account while i wasnt playing it!!! That should be diddlying illegal!
They wont be getting my money ever again.I dont trust them and I dont particularly like their business practices either.
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I just turned in a review of WWIIOL to my editor at "The Wargamer." Should be up in about a week, if all goes well. The long and short of it is there are some cool things about WWIIOL, but my money will stay with AH for the foreseeable future. For ground combat, WWIIOL is very immersive, more so than AH. But I'm into flying, and there is no comparison between the two in that catagory. Add to that the lack of scenarios and events and the clear choice for me is AH. Look for the review at:
http://www.wargamer.com
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I look forward to that Sabre!
"I dont trust them and I dont particularly like their business practices either."
To be honest I do not either. I'd posted from mostly a game play and game performance stand point. When you look at Playnet/CRS and how they've done things it sours the whole picture badly.
FYI, Playnet/CRS have a HUGE part in WWIIOnline being released in the condition it was. Blaming StategyFirst soley is wrong.
Westy