Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on February 06, 2002, 06:25:17 AM
-
Drunky, I read your post (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44779) about the numbers dropping off, and have some comments about this and other related matters.
Amongst those of us who are veterans of WW2 flight sims, whether that be Aces High, Warbirds or Air Warrior, I don't think there can be many of us who have failed to notice the furballing and overall dweebery in the form of gangbangs, vulching and HO in the Aces High MA. The whole scenario is symptomatic of a large influx of new players who don't seem to care whether they live or die. I am sure that everyone here shares my wish that these folks will soon tire of their activities and quietly retire, so that the rest of us can enjoy AH as it was meant to be.
It has to be said that a significant problem in AH, perhaps even caused by the influx of hundreds of new players, is the lack of a community spirit. I know that it's easy to get pissed off with guys who ask questions like "How do I bomb?", but responses like "RTFM" or "Try Alt+F4" are not calculated to encourage the new player to take AH seriously. I myself have tried asking questions like "what targets need to be down at the port for capture?", and just get ignored. The instant reaction is then to just do one's own thing - go looking for something to shoot and to hell with the guys on the mission. If they wont help me, why should I help them? Yes I know there's an excellent manual, but mid sortie in the thick of the action is not always a good time to read it.
I come from Warbirds, which I joined in 1998. As soon as I joined, I had offers of help from all around, whether that be on the AGW board or online in the arenas. My personal mentors were two guys called -save- and --sd--. But in any engagement, if someone flew in such a way that you wanted to salute the guy, you'd get a response, maybe get chatting, and a new friendship would be formed. In a few weeks, I had a list of about ten guys who I knew well and knew the nationality of each, and knew what they were good at. Apart from the 20-odd guys from WB that I have run into here, how many names do you think I have on my equivalent list for AH? None. Zip/Zilch.
I can't help noticing how bad some people are at giving 6-calls. I have been shot down when there were ten friendlies within icon range, but no 6-call did I receive. Why is this? Partly because the 6-call function means that the message often goes to the wrong guy, but largely because so many people don't seem to give a cheese. (Footnote - I have in fact received many 6-calls this past week - thanks) And another thing: I have cleared the arse (6) of about four guys in the past two days, either killing the con or at least disabling it. How many messages of thanks do you think I have received? None. Zip/Zilch. So now when I perform this favour, and fail to elicit a thank you, I say rather facetiously "Don't mention it". This whole pot pourri of not giving a toss about your fellow Chess piece brethren is, in my view, the cause of a large part of the lackadaisical attitude which can be seen in the arena on a daily basis.
As I was saying recently to my former CO in WB, the gangbangs and HO dweebery prevalent in AH have to be seen to be believed. Just yesterday a few of us Bishops were attacking a field. We had the town flat and were working at some of the airfield targets - ammo bunkers, fuel tanks etc. Did the guys at the target field mount a defence with GVs? They did not (but maybe their VH was down - can't recall). Instead, they sent in the alt-monkey dweebs - a P51, a 190, an LA7 and of course a N1K - the dweebs love that thing. And what happened? Given that they began with an alt advantage, you would have thought they might want to maintain it, but no. They all dived in to the field, turning and burning and taking random pop shots at anything that moved. Within a minute, they had blown their E and were low and slow over the field. In my F4U-1C I bounced the 190 but when he saw me he began jerking his stick around to try to warp his way out of trouble, but I got him eventually. The others died too. Why is it that whenever I see a N1K, I just KNOW that he's going to attempt an HO? They never seem to do anything else. I can put my hand on my heart and say that I've never flown a N1K online.
Until this MA tedium ends, and the dweebery subsides as the AH populace matures, I might try the CT. I have just read SirLoin's post about the CT (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44689), and while it is an interesting concept I have a word of caution about promoting the idea into the Main Arena. In Warbirds they did the same thing, and introduced a WW2 Arena which in effect became the Main Arena because that's where everyone went. Almost everyone loved it at first, but after a few months many hated it, others loathed it and I left Warbirds partly because of it. The problem, in WB, was the RPS (Rolling Plane Set). At the beginning of the war, the Axis would have the upper hand with their Me109E against the Allied offerings of Spitfire 1a and P40B. Because Doofus-Dweebius likes to rack up a lot of points, he would start on the Axis side. Later, the Spitfire V would come out, but also the Me109F. It was still no contest. Flying a Spitfire V, I could get kills but it was tedious work. Then, the Allies would get the P38F but Axis would get the 190A4! The odds were still in favour of the Axis until the Spitfire IX appeared, at which point there would be a couple of days where things were fairly even. But then the American planes would start arriving - F6F, F4U, P51. The balance tipped in favour of the Allied. As the war progressed, the Allies would get heavy bombers in the form of the B24 and B17. They already had the B25. The B17 and B24 could go to 25,000 feet or more and could carry 12x500# bombs. The only German bomber was the Ju88, which had only four large bombs for big targets like hangars, and 10 bomblets for acks. Most importantly, the ju88 was wheezing at 12,000 feet and was an easy target. The only formidable Axis jabo plane was the Me110, but it was a deathtrap as a fighter, and even in the real war had to be escorted. The Allies, on the other hand, had the F4U and F6F which, as well as carrying heavy bombs, could launch from the carriers and having dropped their ord would become formidable fighters. The only plane the Axis could launch from their CV would be the Zeke! The result was that Doofus-Dweebius would switch to Allied to maintain his scoreline. The Axis would get the formidable ki84 but it was too little too late. I once logged off in disgust because not only did the Allies have far superior planes, with four Axis fields closed and vulchers orbiting the remaining Axis fields that were still open, they also had a 2-1 numerical advantage. Apart from the two days beginning with the debut of the Spitfire IX, the WW2 Arena was a whitewash. DO NOT let that happen to Aces High! The AH planeset is totally different from that of WB, but given the dweebery we have been seeing in the MA, there is no doubt in my mind as to what would happen with mismatched planesets.
-
Go try the CT, beet1e. IMHO, its a much better implementation of the WWII Axis vs Allied concept than WBs, for two reasons. First, the current CT flyers are not a bunch of gotta-win dweebs. There are many who check for side balance and consciously choose the side with lesser numbers. I was a WB player and know how it feels to fly against 2, 3, even 4 to 1 odds. Pretty ridiculous. But the sides in the CT stay fairly even. Second, the perk point system is better than the RPS because it influences the numbers of the best rides, not just their availability.
-
hmm... please explain what the MA and AH "should be".
I am serious. I am having a lot of fun in the MA and I have been around sims a long time. the more people the merrier. I don't mind HO's and I like fighting guys who don't have to have a huge advantage in order to fight.
New guys wanting help?? function of a large arena. a small percent is enough to clog the buffer. No big deal. In the CT or a HA if the numbers are low the people have all the time in the world to be polite but as soon as their numbers get higher then there will be the same situation of newbies/dumb questions and smart ass/terse answers.
WB...yep.. not many spots in the war that were not lopsided plane wise. Axis vs allied points this out. After a few months when the novelty wears off then even the most slow witted axis vs allied fan fighures it out. In WB, the damage and FM's were shaky also... This led to every little problem (109's twice as tough as should be, axis guns being way too powerful) being a source of constant discontent. They never fixed anything. They "adjusted" stuff constantly to try to get "balance" out of what is essentialy lopsided. Our CT is doing the same. They have to juggle stuff around to try to get some balance. Eventually they will find that there are only a very few historical timeslices that are worth doing balance wise and... Those will get old soon after that.
But really... What, in your opinion, should AH be? What should the MA be? I personally like to see a lot of guys having fun and HTC making money.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... please explain what the MA and AH "should be".
I am serious. I am having a lot of fun in the MA and I have been around sims a long time. the more people the merrier. I don't mind HO's and I like fighting guys who don't have to have a huge advantage in order to fight.
lazs
You like the MA? Fly the MA.
You like the CT? Fly the CT.
Neither is good nor bad. Neither is correct nor incorrect. Neither is right nor wrong. Just different tastes, that's all. As soon as some of us learn this, we'll all be better off.
-
Beetle,I agree that the MA is becoming a bit much in terms of open channel dweebiness,but HO's from NIKI's are acceptable tactics as well as people flying in high with LA7's and P51's looking for a cherry or two to pick.The only thing that really sucks is not stick stirring(which I have seen only once in last 2 years),but when you pull the ol' "overshoot" manouver and get a warping accusation if they get shot down.
The rolling planeset idea won't work for the reasons you point out and the perk system is great...Easier to tweak $$ than planes sets for a given time period.(just my opinion though)
Lastly,I come from AW3 FR(flew WB's too) and they had a great community spirit.It is NOT the influx of these people that is causing the open channel dweebiness,but newbies to arena combat who have taken up HT's no credit card/2 weeks free trial.
I hear complaints about certain people being constant whiners but this doesn't really bother me.You'll usually see them relax there ways after a couple of months or they dissappear altogether.That's why you see few of these people in CT because they see the 400+ in MA and think that's where the fun must be.
..:)
-
Excellent post, beet1e
But one thing everyone seems to miss is the numbers.
That "dweeby" Main Arena has 400+ players in it on a regular basis. We have a massive influx of new players as of late.
Most of my former squadmates gave up on Aces High because of the many reasons you posted. I like the game for its strategic element. That's what drew me into the game, and I like a game that rewards a team effort at closing an airfield, taking turf, etc. But, as we've seen since 1.08, a lot of the strat is hosed now. Anyone that flies a bomber is utterly wasting their time since the goon and repair everything in one pass. And they can up from the devestated base at that.
On the other hand, we have the Combat Theater. Its consistently has low numbers and its almost always run/headed up by people who are the resident Historical Scenario people. Not everyone is into Historical Scenarios, or Axis-vs-Allies stuff. But, in light of what's going on in the Main Arena, I tend to wander in there more and more, just for a change of pace and a better connection (lag is pretty bad in the Main Arena lately for me).
I'd asked for, suggested and continue to promote the idea of a "Realism Arena" of sorts. Give us a Main Arena type setting, with varying weather/winds, less radar...no radar bars, etc etc. From what I am reading on the BBS, people like the Main Arena since that is where the players are. The CT is OK, but again, low numbers. Something in between seems more in order. An Arena where all the planes are available yet the annoyances of the Main have been tweaked with.
But that's just me and my 2 cents. I understand the points of views on all sides, and I tend to agree with a lot of the suggestions players like Tac have made. I'd just like to see an Arena that embodies these ideas and let's see if players go to them.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
so that the rest of us can enjoy AH as it was meant to be.
[/B]
I don't think you are qualified to determine what AH is ment to be. The game is still developing into what HT want's it to be but it's not there yet.
-
Wow that's a really long whine....getting people to play like you want them to play is a tough thing to do ....good luck with that.
-
Where the hell is Rude when you need him?
Rude...We hardly knew ya!
-
Originally posted by beet1e
The whole scenario is symptomatic of a large influx of new players who don't seem to care whether they live or die. I am sure that everyone here shares my wish that these folks will soon tire of their activities and quietly retire, so that the rest of us can enjoy AH as it was meant to be.
I couldn't care less if I live or die, in this sim or any other I've played. Nor do I care about the strategic aspects of the game...nor do I plan to at any time. Nor do I know how the game "was meant to be" played, nor do I care. For the most part here I make a point of not rtb'n and I make no apologies for that. The only time I bother landing or ditching is if a Spit, La7 or Niki dweeb has pinged me (I just figure if you need to stack the deck that much in your favour, I'm not giving you a free kill). But this isn't something characteristic of new players to sims as I've been around them for a long long time. I doubt its just new players to this sim either as the more I play the less desire I have to bother ditching or rtb'n even after a ping and being clear. Just auger and be done with it. I spend enough time flying around doing nothing in this game, I have no desire to do more of that. When the fight's over, I'm augering and heading to a field close to the next furball. . So I'm finding the exact opposite actually. The more I play this game the less I want to participate in the overall Base Warrior format. It bores the hell out of me.
To each their own though. Play it however you enjoy it. Just don't expect me to play it that way too.
Vortex
-
All I can say on the subject is that I personally don't fly the MA anymore because I don't enjoy it for all the reasons already posted. Having said that, I agree with HBlair, that doesn't make it bad or good. What drives the MA is what is best for HTC and what they see as satisfying the largest segment of their player base. If that's furballing, more power to them. They paid their accounts and HTC provided the sandbox. What every player does with it is their personal choice and they have every right to do so.
I am just happy that HTC realizes this doesn't satisfy everyone and have provided us with the CT. I don't fly nearly as much as I used to, for a variety of reasons, but with the way the CT CM's are developing the combinations of planesets and terrains I am having the same fun I originally had in open beta there. Not to mention, the ToD's are the most fun I have had in a long time online.
I understand some people won't be satisfied with the game play here (In any arena) and want immediate changes when unsatisfied (Not knocking them, I have sorta been there before). My point is, the real beauty of AH is that it is constantly evolving. Well, that's my two cents anyway. It will be interesting to see how it all looks a year from now.
-
I'm the exact opposite of Vortex.
I do my best to return from every sortie, alive and well. Though I only succeed 50% of the time, I enjoy the challenge of flying a long, difficult mission, fighting our way into a target, accomplishing our mission with minimal losses, and return my flight to base.
Now remember, this is a guy who used to play FS 98, flying from airport to airport with no point whatsoever, aside from the challenge of flight.
Last night was a perfect example. I was asked to lead a flight of 12 B-17's on a deep strike on 2 bases. Each pilot was given specific targets, and were constantly updated on speed, heading, and altitudes, as well as target conditions. We kept tight formation, and lost only 2 bombers on the first strike. After destroying our target, we were ordered to head south and drop any remaining ordinance on a second field, which we did. However, due to the length of the flight, we found our tanks dry, and our home base a long way off.
Needless to say, I ended up making a dead stick landing with only 2 other 17's. The rest ditched in the ocean when their engines ran out.
To date, this was my best night on Aces High. Not that I racked up a ton of kills, or took several bases. As Flossy said yesterday, it was the immersion factor that I enjoyed,
Vortex said it right. He'll play his way. I'll play mine. And never would I ask anyone to change their style of play to suit me. All I would ask is that HTC put a little more Strat into the game. (Eliminate the Jesus Goon)
Is that too much to ask?
-
Beet1e, it sounds like you are having a hard time trying to fight in an arena that is a complicated battlefield.
Let me give you a brief overview of AH pilots so you can better understand how AH works.
In Aces High there is a interesting collection of:
a) Quakers – pilots who play it as a game for fun with little care of staying alive.
b) Squadrons – a bunch of guys flying together as a team
c) Sharks – expert pilots who are skilled pilots and very dangerous.
d) Missions – usually a large group of one or two types of aircraft.
Quakers are better known by the aircraft they fly. NIK, Spit IX, and the La-7. Usually not hard to tell cause they try to HO every aircraft they encounter. They fly in massive furballs and attempt to get that kill. Usually in a 5 on 1 scenario.
Sharks are the most dangerous type of pilot to engage in AH. They usually follow the schools of fish – and make the quick kill on unexpected pilots. They generally fly the Yak, P-51, or the 109 and make no doubt, they kill when they are hungry. Sharks are often chameleon like and disguise themselves in dweeb planes in order to lure in victims.
Mission pilots are generally AH enthusiasts who group together with a common mission of base capture or strategic strikes. These guys are always a mix of sharks and squadron pilots and are experienced sticks. You get the odd newbie tagging along but engaging a mission team requires a lot of coordination amongst other pilots and country squads.
Squadrons are better known by flying the same aircraft or several aircraft closely grouped together. Common aircraft include the P-51, 109, P-47, FW190, or any other aircraft that appear together as a group. They chat together online using AHVoice or Roger Wilco. A run-in with a squadron is lethal if you are alone or even with other country mates. These guys are usually good sticks, use rope-a-dope and a wide range of techniques to kill you, and are not to be toyed with. Squadrons hate quakers and enjoy dispatching them to the earth.
If you join a squadron, it is almost like joining the mafia. You get protection, you make a few hits, and you pay the CO/godfather the respect he deserves for carrying the group. He’s got his lieutenants who are skilled killers. You can learn a lot from the lieutenants and is one of the reasons why you should join a squadron. You gotta fly with the squadron at all times when you are online – it’s the price you pay for joining.
The Combat Arena is full of mostly Sharks and the odd squad pilots who work together side by side to engage in dog fighting and pure combat. The CA tends to be more 1 on 1 dogfights with the odd multiple aircraft engagements and can be a lot of fun when working together as a country.
That being said, are you flying as a loner Beet1e? Perhaps you should wing up with a squadron and get some protection? :D
Vruth
13th TAS
-
hmm... i guess I'm not a "quaker" since I fly mediocre planes and I fly in a squadron.
lazs
-
One fo the best posts Ive read in awhile Beet1l - let me know if you need help. :)
Mazz/Mike
<-TFC->
-
Squadrons are better known by flying the same aircraft or several aircraft closely grouped together. Common aircraft include the P-51, 109, P-47, FW190, or any other aircraft that appear together as a group.
I once ran into a squad of 6 NIK's at 20000ft from a squadron that I won't mention. Needless to say, in the hands of skilled pilots, they were lethal. I think I lasted about 10 seconds in my P-51D before I was poofed back to the tower. :eek:
V.
-
well... neither I nor anyone in our squad has ever claimed any degree of "skill" that I know of. We do ok tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Ambassador of Goodwill for the BK's
Friend to the small and helpless everywhere.
-
Then there are the Quaker Shark Squadrons. You know them by their silly hats.
-
Originally posted by Vruth
You gotta fly with the squadron at all times when you are online – it’s the price you pay for joining.
Vruth
13th TAS
Err, not necesarily, IMHO. I think in most squads you are only EXPECTED to fly with the squad on organised squad nights, otherwise you are free to do what you like. But squad members often fly together on other nights 'cos it's more fun that way.
-
Why not just stick 3 non-capturable, no strat bases close to each-other in the MA? That way everyone could keep that snuggly together feeling without getting to far into each-other's space.
-
I started readin this thread and said... 'oh, boy; here we go again.."
Then I got to here...
Sharks are often chameleon like and disguise themselves in dweeb planes in order to lure in victims.
ROFL! but wait.. theres more..
Squadrons hate quakers and enjoy dispatching them to the earth.
Ain't it the truth? LOL... and when the B&Z Shark squads hit the Disguised Quaker squads, the text box runnth over... and the singleton quakers reel in vultched shock..
If you join a squadron, it is almost like joining the mafia. You get protection, you make a few hits, and you pay the CO/godfather the respect he deserves for carrying the group. He’s got his lieutenants who are skilled killers. You can learn a lot from the lieutenants and is one of the reasons why you should join a squadron. You gotta fly with the squadron at all times when you are online – it’s the price you pay for joining.
There are certainly squads out there (ahem) that don't quite fit this model... but it's a pretty damn good description of of the more organized and hence more dangerous outfits. Iron discipline and tight leather panties. :)
Of course, we all see what we wanna see.. but Vruth, you see the same place I do.
-
Last night, I tried the CT. I think I'm going to like it :)
-
"Dr Vruth" is Spot on, good read :)
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Last night, I tried the CT. I think I'm going to like it :)
That's good to hear. :)