Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 07:36:00 AM

Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 07:36:00 AM
...for telling you that you were 'gaming the game'...after all, 98% of people do it (P38 launching to drive around on ground and strafe troops and/or C47 on ground) since its possible in the game to do it, thus, its not gaming the game...it's a feature that's possible to do.

My comment was out of line.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Dingy on February 05, 2001, 07:48:00 AM
Yup....its almost as bad as a "surprise" attack on HQ arriving from a carrier stationed off the map.

-Ding
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 08:02:00 AM
Dingy, I don't believe that CV was off the map, I was part of that raid.  That is strictly my opinion though. (If it was off the map, I wouldn't have been able to see the CV20 or the waypoints associated with it)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Dingy on February 05, 2001, 08:27:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Dingy, I don't believe that CV was off the map, I was part of that raid.  That is strictly my opinion though. (If it was off the map, I wouldn't have been able to see the CV20 or the waypoints associated with it)

Welp Rip, strictly my opinion but when I finally spotted it in sector 5,6 it was off the map to me.  Sure radar bars appear on the sides of the map but if you have to fly a sector off the map to spot the task force, I would classify that as "off the map".

Now dont get me wrong...it was a good sneak attack which you probably could have accomplished by sneaking the CV task force in closer to the shore, but then you run the risk of being spotted by some straggler or sunk with a quick strike.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Because people can sail a CV off the map to protect and hide it, they do it just as they can strafe troops in a P38.  If the game allows it, go for it  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

-Ding


Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 08:35:00 AM
Ding, it was in a sector of the map, within gridlines, and you wouldn't have 'seen' it in a normal sector until you overflew it, only dar bar gives it away. It wasn't hidden, your comrades found it just fine, and sunk it.

ANyways, yep, its in the game...people will use it to their advantage.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-05-2001).]
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on February 05, 2001, 09:23:00 AM
"98% of people do it (P38 launching to drive around on ground and strafe troops and/or C47 on ground)"


What a waste off using this aircraft get it in the air and fight with it.

Now i understand why it's killratio sucks  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Think off the price u better use a lowercost plane for that  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 09:27:00 AM
Bug, think tri-cycle landing gear...hard to get guns on target with a tail dragger.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Dinger on February 05, 2001, 09:29:00 AM
Heck Dingy, I think you even saw my post, with the screenshot of where the CV was at the time, and it was on the map.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 09:49:00 AM
Here it is again (Dammit, hi-jacked my own thread again!)

 (http://members.home.net/dinger666/map.JPG)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Dingy on February 05, 2001, 09:52:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Here it is again (Dammit, hi-jacked my own thread again!)

  (http://members.home.net/dinger666/map.JPG)  

Looks off the map to me.

See that blue stuff?  Ocean.

That white edge?  Thats not ocean.  Its the maps border.

-Ding
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 09:57:00 AM
That's a map sector, and even part of the number for that sector is blocked off by the white border...actually, this should be in the bug forum "Remove white inside border that blocks off the map sector numbers..."
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: jihad on February 05, 2001, 10:57:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
That's a map sector, and even part of the number for that sector is blocked off by the white border...actually, this should be in the bug forum "Remove white inside border that blocks off the map sector numbers..."


 Theres no map under the white border,the clipboard map is a 512x512 bmp quartered. It can't be removed - only replaced with another color.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 11:01:00 AM
Um, then why is there ocean there?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Then replace it with blue!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: jihad on February 05, 2001, 11:55:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Um, then why is there ocean there?   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Then replace it with blue!   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

 Thats not part of the terrain, I could be wrong but I think the game engine repeats the terrain modeled in the map area after you cross the border.

Do you want HTC to waste coding time building a "wall" at the edges?

  Taking fleets or planes off the map for stealth strikes is gaming the game.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 12:01:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jihad:
  Taking fleets or planes off the map for stealth strikes is gaming the game.

Which brings us all the way back to my original post..."after all, 98% of people do it"... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: CRASH on February 05, 2001, 12:04:00 PM
I was with Dingy and several other squqd mates looking for that cv...it was definately off the map....well off.

CRASH
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Vermillion on February 05, 2001, 12:06:00 PM
Right, Rip.

And all 98%  (actually all 100%)who do it, are gaming the game. Regardless of which side they fly for, or who they are.

And either you think "gaming the game" is either fine, or you think its a cheat. No matter if its ackstars, strato buffs, Osti base destruction, flying off the map, or now taking the CV off the map.

Its all the same. Either your all for it, or your all against it. Well, I guess the other possible category is hypocrite.

And no this isn't directed at Ripsnort, its directed at everyone.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-05-2001).]
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Moose11 on February 05, 2001, 12:08:00 PM
Actually, what I think would be completely fair would be for the CV to fall off the edge of the earth and plummet into the Warbirds arena.

(that's what I see far below us, right?)

Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Zigrat on February 05, 2001, 12:10:00 PM
hey rip no probs, lets call off our little fued and be friends again  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) U are pretty damned good at organizing those damned knights to take our rook fields, and i was just tryin to stem the  tide  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

<S>
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: AKDejaVu on February 05, 2001, 12:11:00 PM
The game is gamed on so many levels, that it is easy call someone out for it while forgetting exactly what it was you were doing.

AKDejaVu
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 12:12:00 PM
And you yourself are pretty good at organizing strikes as well, now get your butt back over to Knitland!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

<S>
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 12:13:00 PM
And just for the record, I didn't control the CV that afternoon!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: SwampRat on February 05, 2001, 01:09:00 PM
Lets call the map borders "The Fog of War Aces High Style"

Swamp
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Mighty1 on February 05, 2001, 01:18:00 PM
Well all you guys cheat and I thiink you are all crappy pilots.

I have decided since there is no one flying that is worth a damn (besides myself) that I'm going to form my own country and call it MIGHTLANDIA with the capital being DEWEYVILLE and no one can fly there but me. Well maybe the girls from Hooter's can come by for a bit but that's it.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: J_A_B on February 05, 2001, 01:31:00 PM
How about making a 65000-foot high mountain with 90-degree slopes around the edge of the map?

Or have those UFO's shoot any "map-leavers" with their death-ray.  That or use their tracor beam to haul "map-leavers" back to A1.

Put those UFO's to work!

J_A_B
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Dinger on February 05, 2001, 03:10:00 PM
Err. A question: why is driving the CV off the map considered "Gaming the Game"?
Because, as the complaints above indicate, the sector counters don't work.  Flying off the map allows pilots to sneak deep into enemy territory unobserved and get an unfair advantage.

For the "Fringe" along the bottom and left of the map, sector counters work; driving the CV along that fringe doesn't change anything.  Now, driving the CV outside of the functional sectors does, and that, frankly is cheating.

This isn't hair splitting, and it's not hypocritical to say this.  If you want, I'll give you a systematic explanation:

The "Map" is the area of play defined by a grid of sectors in which enemy and friendly counters function.  It is represented to the player by a graphic file that approximately corresponds to it (nowhere on the "graphic" map do sector counters correspond precisely to the lines on the screen).  Running off the map is "gaming the game" because it circumvents the sector counter system.

The other position is, as near as I can tell:
"The 'map' is the space represented by the graphics file on the clipboard.  Running off the map is 'gaming the game' because it's running off the map."

That's a bad case of petitio principii and is internally inconsistent.  Perhaps someone could explain the position better than that?

(BTW: I didn't command the CV at all during this operation, but frankly it doesn't make any difference concerning my position).

If I'm a hypocrite for formalizing my position, so be it.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Eagler on February 05, 2001, 03:14:00 PM
Rip was using the "fog of war". As it is impossible to sneak up in this GAME, more power to him. It keeps you thinking. Shrink the map, get rid of the green and red bars, limit icons to 1k... then you wouldn't have to sail/fly off the edge of the world to sneak up on someone.

Eagler

Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Yeager on February 05, 2001, 03:23:00 PM
I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. I just log on to have fun and let off some steam.

Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: NUTTZ on February 05, 2001, 03:31:00 PM
I just log on to have fun and let off some steam. Anyone else feel this way besides me?

NUTTZ
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Kieren on February 05, 2001, 03:45:00 PM
Me too. Find a few fights, twisty-turny, come back for more, "Oh! look at the time, have to go now!" and I'm done. Time is too short to get this wrapped up in it.
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2001, 03:45:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler:
Rip was using the "fog of war". As it is impossible to sneak up in this GAME, more power to him. It keeps you thinking. Shrink the map, get rid of the green and red bars, limit icons to 1k... then you wouldn't have to sail/fly off the edge of the world to sneak up on someone.

Eagler

Errr, Rip was not commanding the CV that day...I only used it for a mission. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Fury on February 05, 2001, 03:55:00 PM
If you look closely at the clip of the map earlier in the thread, you will see that the sectors on the edge of the map are not 25x25 sectors.  The little bit of white "edge" encroaches into the sector, making it smaller.  A full 25x25 goes into the white "edge" and ends at the tan part.  Which possibly means that the white "edge" is still part of the terrain.  Yes, I actually held a lined sheet of paper to my monitor.  Yes, I could very well be wrong.  Not saying anything about gaming the game or who is right or wrong, just pointing out that the fringe sectors are 25x25 if you go all the way thru the white to the tan.  

Fury
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: Hangtime on February 05, 2001, 05:50:00 PM
It's 1912. The quarterback takes the snap.. TURNS. Runs 10 steps back; TURNS; throws the ball... it sails 30 yards down the field; is caught, run into the endzone... TOUCHDOWN!

"WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!!" hollers the opposing coach.. His assistant, rule book open in his hand, points; sez to the coach, "Forward pass". "WHAAAAAT??? I know it's a 'FORWARD PASS' you IDIOT! We DON'T do it; even if it is possible, because IT'S GAMING THE GAWDAMNNED GAME! Those BASTARDS!! Can you believe it?? Keeerist.. in all my 40 years of football...."

True story. It happened. "Gaming the game" is PART of the game.. get used to it. Adapt. or be assimilated anyway.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

 

------------------
Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders"  << Recruiting!!
Title: Apologies to Zigrat
Post by: DrSoya on February 05, 2001, 07:44:00 PM
For the nth time, TG20 was always on the map up to the launch of NathBDP/Ripsnort's mission.

It was after the launch that the CV was sent off map.

Sending it off map to hinder repraisals was gaming the game, I agree.

But the raid to HQ itself was legit all the way. At all times, up to the launch, the CV stayed on the blue part of the map. The CV was not detected up to that time, not because it was off map, but because nobody took off from it until it was in position.

Unless you're saying that the sector counters don't work in the left-most sectors?

------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)