Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: pimpjoe on February 10, 2002, 08:24:58 PM
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ok...maybe not.
this is becoming all to familiar lately.
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this is how the roster was.
ok...flame away
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Looks like numbers finally caught up yesterday..
before that I was logged on working on A4-V3 island area.
and yeah, I noticed too many pilots are wasted on that place
too. But still I really thought there was a good chance of capture
in the near time.
After it was getting quite clear we won't capture it, I transferred
to south and began fighting there. It really was hell, and seeing
those 'usual guys' who in their 'usual planes' showing up at
only those 'usual situations'(I never, ever remember seeing
'em fighting outside vulch/gangbang situations..)..
It was enough to remind me why I hated the NDisles, and why
I hated the frickin' SE corner. Logged off, and went to CT and
had a good time.
I honestly don't know why I put up with that sickhole MA anymore.
They say 'it all has its turns'. They also say 'we're not the only ones
who get gangbanged'. Those are all true, but intervals between those
turns are drastic and sh** enough. I sincerely hate the 3-way country
system now.
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When I was on, breifly, at 1:00PM PST the Rooks were badly outnumbered. Maybe what you saw was the legacy of that.
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over 100 on a side! im lucky to see 100 ppl on the WHOLE SERVER!
Anyway, by the time I got on the situation was about the same, I worked from A1 just tootling around in an M3 trying for a quick cap of those VH. Got some CAS from squaddies etc, had fun even though I had no luck. Made some forays from the CV later, nothing special although we rolled over 3 or 4 bases in an hour. Lost 3 or 4 in the north though :). Maybe its just me or maybe things are different with less ppl, but teamwork isn't too bad when I'm online. I guess only the really interested play at 4am.
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Originally posted by Karnak
When I was on, breifly, at 1:00PM PST the Rooks were badly outnumbered. Maybe what you saw was the legacy of that.
What he saw was stupidity compounded by ignorance. Initially, the Rooks were only slightly outnumbered. However, as the evening progressed, more and more people became frustrated at the singleminded pursuit to the north, at cost of the complete loss of the south. More than a few logged off with comments directed at the gangbangers who are usually led by the senior clueless twit.
Tonight I saw the exact pattern re-develop. One knucklehead, who probably never won a tic-tac-toe game in his life, was calling the shots. Like lemmings, the bulk of the Rooks followed his direction. Meanwhile, the Rooks lost two southern airfields, a task force and their southern port to simple neglect. These were captured or destroyed by the Knights, with little more than a dozen aircraft committed. Hell, I defended one field by myself for ten minutes, killing four attackers before I ran out of fuel and ammo. I had to leave at that point. Even when this fight began, there was no more than four players defending at any time.
I don't see myself flying with the Rooks much longer if the majority
continue to follow the creed of centralized mass. It's constantly the same issue. A handful do all of the grunt work, while 40 or more climb all over each other to get at two Spits at an airfield that could have been taken with 15 aircraft. Truly, it defies reason. This reminds me of PeeWee soccer. Every kid races to the ball, abandoning position, and instead of accomplishing the purpose of the game, they just kick each other in the shin.
Maybe it's time to head over to the CT for a change of pace.
If it sounds like I'm being too harsh, well, I won't sugar coat the fact that there's no logic applied to much of what they do.
My regards,
Widewing.
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The problem I've had with the MA lately is that I am either competeing with 10 other guys to kill the single enemy or I am fighting alone against 10 enemies. The same thing from different perspectives and neither is enjoyable.
True, there are more even fights sometimes, but those are rarer and rarer. When I first subscribed they weren't that rare. Ganging still happened, but not as much. Now I feel lucking if I get to participate in a good fight in the MA.
The CT has also been very frusterating for other reasons.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I don't see myself flying with the Rooks much longer if the majority
continue to follow the creed of centralized mass. It's constantly the same issue. A handful do all of the grunt work, while 40 or more climb all over each other to get at two Spits at an airfield that could have been taken with 15 aircraft. Truly, it defies reason. This reminds me of PeeWee soccer. Every kid races to the ball, abandoning position, and instead of accomplishing the purpose of the game, they just kick each other in the shin.
I'm afraid you'll see this in all three countries. I know its common over in the Knights, and I'm sure Bishop's are no different. Part of it is simply human nature with the majority staying in flocks and herding en masse. Mind you there can often be some great furballs found at the end of those massive migrations. Therein lay the primary draw. To each their own I guess.
Rest assured changing countries won't change the view any though.
Maybe it's time to head over to the CT for a change of pace.
If it sounds like I'm being too harsh, well, I won't sugar coat the fact that there's no logic applied to much of what they do.
CT can be fun...and it can't be too. But for the most part its the same thing as MA just on a much smaller scale, and with slightly different parameters. The furballers will furball, and the strategists will make and run missions. The surroundings are of course a lot different. Everyone invariably falls back to the play style they're happy with though, just as in MA. It can be a nice change of pace though.
...and as I like to remind folks, everyone is paying the same pennies for this game, so let em fly it in a manner they like. Ask ten people how the game should be played, and you'll get 10 different answers. Best bet imo is hook up with a group or squad that play and think similar to you. That way you've at least got a center point from which to work.
Cause there's no point trying to teach a pig to sing. You're wasting your time, and you'll just annoy the pig.
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well said widewing
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so what? we took v3, a4, which was replaced with v6 and a5. a10, a9, a53, a52 were taken after that. we did lose p21, a19, a18 but we took back a18.
and?
MA is for fun and nothing more. so what if we get ganged? or lose the war?
Just have a good fight whatever it is. I put up a mission for fun of it, don't let winning the war be everything :)
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Indeed, WTG to ROOOOOKLAND. Most of the time outnumbered, most of the time gambanged, most of the time without exceeding resources to set up pupolated missions, most of the time with unclear organization, rarely winning a reset, but, in any case, the only country able to have a global K/D > 1.0 ;)
Tour 24 K/D:
Rooks: 136675/124783 1.09
Knights: 148769/149742 0.99
Bishops: 130596/141509 0.92
Tour 25 K/D:
Rooks: 27205/24697 1.10
Knights: 29036/29691 0.97
Bishops: 26318/28173 0.93
Surviving here is not easy, but we are giving them a bloody run for their money :D
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Originally posted by Vortex
CT can be fun...and it can't be too. But for the most part its the same thing as MA just on a much smaller scale, and with slightly different parameters. The furballers will furball, and the strategists will make and run missions. The surroundings are of course a lot different. Everyone invariably falls back to the play style they're happy with though, just as in MA. It can be a nice change of pace though.
...and as I like to remind folks, everyone is paying the same pennies for this game, so let em fly it in a manner they like. Ask ten people how the game should be played, and you'll get 10 different answers. Best bet imo is hook up with a group or squad that play and think similar to you. That way you've at least got a center point from which to work.
Cause there's no point trying to teach a pig to sing. You're wasting your time, and you'll just annoy the pig.
I understand your points. However, therein is the frustration. I've been wargaming since 1967. During my military service, I took great pride in waxing War College grads simply because of a greater depth of understanding of the relationship between goals and methodology. What I see here is a dogpack mentality, with no greater comprehension of methodology than the dogs display. No, I don't expect a change as long as players prefer to be drones.
The fact remains, however, that even with the limited resources available, it is not a major challenge to defeat a disorganized enemy. I could write a volume on what's wrong and how to fix it. I could write a detailed methodology describing exactly how this can be accomplished. Yet, I have no motivation to do so. simply because it would largely fall upon deaf ears. I also realize that this situation bothers me because I'm the type who would want to create organization where chaos exists. That may not be possible, but it can be managed. Here's my solution: Attrition.
Currently, there is no attrition whatsoever. Someone gets shot down and they return minutes later in the same aircraft. This puts the numerically smaller force at a serious disadvantage. So, what can be done about that?
Simple, really. If you get shot down, you cannot return with the same aircraft for that calendar day. You must select a different aircraft. Get whacked ten times in high performance aircraft, and you will find yourself choosing from what remains. This will quickly limit the amount of "uber" fighters in the main arena. It will also motivate individuals as well as whole forces, to consider how they spend their resources. Keep the general structure of the perk system in place as well, although it may require some adjustment. Misuse those resources and your team faces the possibility of fighting off attacks using Hurricanes instead of Spitfires and La-7s.
Lose your SpitIX, and you're forced into the SpitV if you wish to continue flying Spitfires. And so on.
To make this work on a team scale, each team should be allocated a limited number of aircraft, reset every six hours. This would force the teams to husband resources and would self-enforcing to an extent. This should be a tier system that would allow for unlimited access to lesser performing aircraft.
The gangbangers can still do their thing, albeit with inferior aircraft should they so desire to continue. Moreover, this would cause players and their chosen leaders to reconsider mindless goals that will only serve to cause a faster reset. I also have a preliminary concept of a leadership structure that would allow any player his or her chance to run the show with rewards for getting it right and penalties for screwing the pooch. I'll post it after I work out the details further. I would also greatly enhance the perk rewards for kills scored as part of an organized mission. Furthermore, you can only rise in the command structure through participation in organized missions.
I'll post more as I work out details.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
To make this work on a team scale, each team should be allocated a limited number of aircraft, reset every six hours. This would force the teams to husband resources and would self-enforcing to an extent. This should be a tier system that would allow for unlimited access to lesser performing aircraft.
And gee what fun we would have to fly the 202's after the japanese players has used up the country quota on all other fighters. The idea is a good one, but the quotas needs to be personal instead of team quotas. And perhaps 3 of each sort?
Most MA people would not care enough about their fellow teammates to bother. Some new moron would simply use up the good fighter quota.
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Widewing,
From a drone point of view.
I'm in a squad that is and has been a pure dogfighting squad from wayback. We are not in to arena strategy for strategies sake.
All the BK's are in high stress, professional fields. Speaking for myself, I use the AH MA to kickup my adrenaline. To get angry about being shot down and aggressively do something about it. To compete with myself and my friends and not worry about disappointing someone or pissin' someone off. To kick, scream and yell, have a knee slappin' good time without looking over my shoulder. Things I don't do in the real world.
I supervise subordinates everyday. I have for the past 10 years of my career. I'm certainly not going to "pay" to have someone tell me what to do in my leisure time. It goes against my grain I guess.
I'm also not an advocate of limiting aircraft as your attrition idea suggests, especially not when we pay to fly them. Not in the MA at least. If there were an arena setup where people understood they may lose an aircraft, then thats all well and good, but there should be a choice IMHO.
I have no problem with folks wanting to "win the war". I them for thier efforts. For those of use who choose to ignore the war, but fight the battles, should be given the same respect.
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Well said Apache! Now if you'll just get your point across to a specific Team mate to live and let live instead of trying to change the game to his standards, we'd all be one happy family! :)
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Ripsnort,
Your Alive!
I noticed that you have been away from the BB for the past few days, much unlike you. I hadn't recalled ever checking the BB without seeing you post within the past hour, so naturally, I figured that you had died.
Hehe :)
eskimo
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well ripsnore.. I'm sure the irony and hypocracy of what you say is not lost on anyone.
This thread is just one of many of the sky accountant and self proclaimed Supreme commander class. If eveyone doesn't play capture the flag these guys come unglued on a regular basis.
There is a difference in what I want and what they want besides the obvious "goals". I only want a place to do as I like. They want to force people to play as they like.
If I wanted teamwork and organization I woulda stayed at work and made the money.
lazs
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Ripsnort,
Your Alive!
I noticed that you have been away from the BB for the past few days, much unlike you. I hadn't recalled ever checking the BB without seeing you post within the past hour, so naturally, I figured that you had died.
Hehe :)
eskimo
Didn't think anyone noticed! :D I was heading to Florida on Thursday morning for a sick relative, granny, but she slipped into a coma, and my mom had my sisters with her to comfort...so I stayed home. I'm back up and posting now though! :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
If eveyone doesn't play capture the flag these guys come unglued on a regular basis.
I understand that Laz, actually, you hear on Knights channel alot of folks calling for this and that, and getting rather irate if folks don't do things their way. I just squelch them rather than trying to squeak and moan my way into convincing Hitech to change the gameplay. :D And if you were in my squad, you'd know that I like to furball some days, and capture other days. I'm am certainly not one-dimensional like you. I fly them all, I drive them all, I furball, I capture, I drive boats. :D
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Sorry to hear that Ripsnort. :(
I have NO desire to be limited to what I can fly for whatever reason. I enjoy strat sometimes and I enjoy FBing sometimes or abit of both. GB's happen...get use to it. This IS NOT the miltary w/a clear cut Chain of Command...its a on-line game w/pep's from all differnet walks of life w/diferent desires/expectations of what FUN is.
You guys take yourselfs and this game wayyyyy to seriously sometimes.
;) xBAT
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Agree with you Batdog!
Chicken pot pie is the ONLY thing that should be taken seriously!
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Originally posted by Widewing
The fact remains, however, that even with the limited resources available, it is not a major challenge to defeat a disorganized enemy. I could write a volume on what's wrong and how to fix it. I could write a detailed methodology describing exactly how this can be accomplished. Yet, I have no motivation to do so. simply because it would largely fall upon deaf ears. I also realize that this situation bothers me because I'm the type who would want to create organization where chaos exists.
To a degree this gets back to the point I mentioned earlier about getting involved with a group of similar ilk. I think the game proves much more enjoyable for organizationally minded folks like yourself if you can, at minimum, interact with a squad (or squads) that has similar goals. Because try as you might you are exactly right, much of what you say will fall on deaf ears if spoken to the player base generally.
I think that's the beauty of the MA. It does, after all, allow for all these varying mindsets to interact. I can wander around doing what I like without a care or worry to the overriding strategy, who wins/loses, etc. At the same time those that prefer a more organized format can do that via missions, etc. What's very important for the latter, however, is to realize the limitations. Point being not everyone wants to play a part in your grand strategy, and with those that do you're going to find a percentage that think your strategy is wrong and theirs is right. A further decrease in the resource pool. Therefore set the goals accordingly. Instead of one HUGE mission make 3 smaller ones. You won't win the war immediately but its a good compromise allowing you to act.
That may not be possible, but it can be managed. Here's my solution: Attrition.
To be honest I'm not a big fan of it. Like Apache said, if its in a different arena then no worries. I like the frivolous furballing that is available in MA and its a big part of why I keep paying my monthly fee. The more structured one tries to make my play, the less likely I am to keep paying that monthly fee. I certainly don't mind that part of the game, I just don't want to be forced down a specific path which is effectively what we're talking about here.
Ex: the "I want to live" approach to play would be a cornerstone of an attrition system. That's not at all fun imo, nor does it promote better gameplay...Correction, it doesn't promote better gameplay in MY mind's eye.
Again, I think the key for folks who like to immerse themselves in the grand strategic possibilities of the game is to set ones goals small. Make missions for 10 people not 50. Ignore what other folks are doing...or not doing. You can't change it anyway so why frustrate yourself trying? Keep the flow of missions rolling regardless of success or failure. If the prior, you'll find the masses flocking to your aid in short order as a format for easy kills starts to present itself (and you can try some of those big missions then if you like). If the latter, *shrug*, you win some and lose some. Throw together another and try again. The fun should be had in the journey, not the end.
My two bits anywhoo.
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vortex... can you please send me the address for the.. "speaking to the hyper sensitive" home study course that you took?
lazs
The "lazshole"
Public Relations Officer of the BK's
"your mom lied, nobody likes you"
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I've been switching around between countries lately, and I can tell you changing sides won't eliminate the lemming effect. It happens everywhere. So when the lemmings finally realize their other front is being rolled up the "gang-bang" claims start up. A simple glance at the bar dar will normally show these as simply untrue. Plenty of action going on between the other countries. If you want to avoid all of this you must come join we elite few in the CT. Got my elitist butt handed to me several times just last night!
GronK
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i understand people like to furball, hell thats pretty much all i do. but cant we furball against both bish and knights at the same time, instead of gangbanging 1 side and get gangbanged on the other?
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Debated on whether I would put in my 2 cents or not, but here I am anyway.
At times I like purefurball, and there are times I like to strat the game. I was, however, one of the few down south asking for a solid hour for people to help down south. I pointed out the fact that once the base was gone, the port would fall next. I pointed out the fact that once those are gone, the south end gets rolled up into a tight ball of a corner, and that's when I get upset.
Generally, the numbers balance. But when I log on after a hard day at work to relax (like you can really relax playing this game), I find the rooks continually painted in one small corner with 3 bases getting gang-raped. It gets old....quick.
I feel like I'm swimming in a huge school of hammerheads, and oh yeah, the boat captain just threw some chum in the water. Daily it becomes a battle just to get off the runway, and even though I fly a game I am a competitve person. It irritates me that I have to fly against 200 people, (okay, slight stretch of the truth, but you know what I mean). If I were to just get disgusted and log off, I would never be able to fly.
Yes, rooks are IMO getting better skilled at this because we do consistantly fight the odds, at least in the time slot I fly. Yes, rooks do hold their own.
We all know that perspective is a squeak, and this is mine. Every country suffers the same fate from time to time, I know it's no isolated only to the rook side, yet I haven't seen a rook victory in perhaps 10 tours.
The CT is not an option. Popped in there a couple times to check it out. Numbers too low, plane set too limited, it's not my squads style and I guess it's not mine either. I'm glad the ultrarealists have aplace to escape the madness of the MA...I am, and I have no desire to see that taken away from you guys. But it's not for me.
Anyway, I just had to support pimpjoe and widewing here. I just needed to get it out of my system also I guess. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Someone needs to lobby for a strat radio channel. Will clear up the country channel, and let the strat guys have a more clear way of communicating. Unless yelling in CAPS works.
Drex
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Originally posted by batdog
Sorry to hear that Ripsnort. :(
I have NO desire to be limited to what I can fly for whatever reason. I enjoy strat sometimes and I enjoy FBing sometimes or abit of both. GB's happen...get use to it. This IS NOT the miltary w/a clear cut Chain of Command...its a on-line game w/pep's from all differnet walks of life w/diferent desires/expectations of what FUN is.
You guys take yourselfs and this game wayyyyy to seriously sometimes.
;) xBAT
I appreciate your view. I too like to freelance from time to time as well.
Let me address a few comments supplied by others.
Apache: I am a senior project engineer with insane levels of responsibility. So, I do relate to your thoughts on the subject. However, I am also keenly competitive. Just two weeks short of my 49th birthday, I still box (that's right, fight) competitively for fun, fitness and recreation. That gets my adrenaline pumping. So, you can imaging that I really hate being pinged just as much as anyone. So, when I show up for any competition, of any type, I want to kick some ass, be it individually or collectively. This is probably why I boil when I see the enemy gaining an edge where they could have stopped.
I can understand that you feel that you're paying to fly the better aircraft, therefore you want to. However, If you are a good pilot, an attrition system will reward you for being good, or smart. The guys who don't care about dying, suddenly will care, or lose their favorite toy for the day. I think it will better balance the arena, and watch the suicide HO attacks fall off significantly.
Xbat: I tend to take competition seriously. A personality fault? Maybe, but that's my nature. Moreover, I want my team to excel. They can do that without giving up any of the fun. The problem is convincing others. Certainly, one can freelance and furball within the context of the overall goal, which is to beat the hell out of the opposition forces. Remember, there are advantages in tying up considerable numbers of the enemy in furballs. At least as long as this contributes to the overall goal at the time.
What really bothered my yesterday was the mindless pursuit of northern airfields. When I asked why this focus on moving north, while ignoring the south, I was told "because we can". That sort of logic makes me crazy in any circumstance.
I only ask that everyone consider their fun within the context of the environment and the game overview. Then, everyone can have some satisfaction.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing, I was one of the ‘clueless twits’ helping to direct traffic up North yesterday, so I guess I should reply to your post. First of all, you seem very upset, so I guess an apology is in order. If my actions of moving North ruined some of your gaming pleasure, I am truly sorry for that, and it was not intended. I certainly subscribe to the theory of letting people do what they want in this game. Sometimes I like to do something organized, sometimes I just want to furball. To each his own, its only, as they say, a game.
I don’t profess to be a grand strategist, I only play this game as a diversion from real life, and to have a few laughs with friends, but let me explain my thoughts about last nights situation. Again, I may have been way off base, but what the heck, it’s only a virtual life anyways ;).
When I logged on about 9pm EST, the Bishops had about half the map, and we and the Knights about a quarter each. All three countries were fighting a two front war, which, given the way the map was divided, added up to a Bishop reset in my book. So, knowing the Damned, a large Knight Squad, had Squad Night on Sunday, I talked to them about moving North against the Bishops, telling them our Squad would do the same. They agreed, and the race was on :).
By the time I logged, we took about six bases from the Bishop, and it seemed like the Knights took about ten, and the Knights and Rooks traded a couple bases back and forth down South. The map stood at a third Rook, third Knight and third Bishop. I congratulated the Bishops on a fine defense against a strong two-prong attack and logged.
Widewing, please send me an e-mail at dawg898@fuse.net so we can talk some more about this. I feel terrible that you are so upset, heck, I don’t think I’ve made anyone this mad in all my years of gaming. I’d like to make it up to you if there is any way I can!
Cya Up!
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Why can't people be nice to each other and just play the game how they want to instead of complaining about how others play?
Apache furballs, cool, good ftrs are always needed. Ripsnort flies caps sometimes, some ppl like GV's, others I see cruising around in PT's quite often. Its called variety and its what keeps us all happy. Every man is different. Trying to force others to like what you like and denying them what they like is how fights and ultimately wars get started.
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I sign on, pick a plane and field, select a runway and hit the "E" key. Fly around awhile, shoot at red guys!
Probably the simplest thing I do all day! :)
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Originally posted by Widewing
I appreciate your view. I too like to freelance from time to time as well.
Let me address a few comments supplied by others.
Apache: I am a senior project engineer with insane levels of responsibility. So, I do relate to your thoughts on the subject. However, I am also keenly competitive. Just two weeks short of my 49th birthday, I still box (that's right, fight) competitively for fun, fitness and recreation. That gets my adrenaline pumping. So, you can imaging that I really hate being pinged just as much as anyone. So, when I show up for any competition, of any type, I want to kick some ass, be it individually or collectively. This is probably why I boil when I see the enemy gaining an edge where they could have stopped.
I can understand that you feel that you're paying to fly the better aircraft, therefore you want to. However, If you are a good pilot, an attrition system will reward you for being good, or smart. The guys who don't care about dying, suddenly will care, or lose their favorite toy for the day. I think it will better balance the arena, and watch the suicide HO attacks fall off significantly.
Xbat: I tend to take competition seriously. A personality fault? Maybe, but that's my nature. Moreover, I want my team to excel. They can do that without giving up any of the fun. The problem is convincing others. Certainly, one can freelance and furball within the context of the overall goal, which is to beat the hell out of the opposition forces. Remember, there are advantages in tying up considerable numbers of the enemy in furballs. At least as long as this contributes to the overall goal at the time.
What really bothered my yesterday was the mindless pursuit of northern airfields. When I asked why this focus on moving north, while ignoring the south, I was told "because we can". That sort of logic makes me crazy in any circumstance.
I only ask that everyone consider their fun within the context of the environment and the game overview. Then, everyone can have some satisfaction.
My regards,
Widewing
Just to clarify and certainly not to be argumentative, my position isn't one of "flying the better planes". It is the choice to fly whatever I choose, when I choose, be it uber a/c or not.
Am I a good pilot? Statistically speaking, I fall in the 200+ kill, less than 50 death per tour category. Does that qualify as a good pilot? Who knows.
Again, I am not attempting to counter your point or discourage any ideas you may have ref. to game play. Just wanted you to know where those of us who squelch "WE NEED HELP IN THE SOUTH YOU IDIOTS!" are coming from.
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Originally posted by Dawggus
Widewing, I was one of the ‘clueless twits’ helping to direct traffic up North yesterday, so I guess I should reply to your post. First of all, you seem very upset, so I guess an apology is in order. If my actions of moving North ruined some of your gaming pleasure, I am truly sorry for that, and it was not intended. I certainly subscribe to the theory of letting people do what they want in this game. Sometimes I like to do something organized, sometimes I just want to furball. To each his own, its only, as they say, a game.
I don’t profess to be a grand strategist, I only play this game as a diversion from real life, and to have a few laughs with friends, but let me explain my thoughts about last nights situation. Again, I may have been way off base, but what the heck, it’s only a virtual life anyways ;).
When I logged on about 9pm EST, the Bishops had about half the map, and we and the Knights about a quarter each. All three countries were fighting a two front war, which, given the way the map was divided, added up to a Bishop reset in my book. So, knowing the Damned, a large Knight Squad, had Squad Night on Sunday, I talked to them about moving North against the Bishops, telling them our Squad would do the same. They agreed, and the race was on :).
By the time I logged, we took about six bases from the Bishop, and it seemed like the Knights took about ten, and the Knights and Rooks traded a couple bases back and forth down South. The map stood at a third Rook, third Knight and third Bishop. I congratulated the Bishops on a fine defense against a strong two-prong attack and logged.
Widewing, please send me an e-mail at dawg898@fuse.net so we can talk some more about this. I feel terrible that you are so upset, heck, I don’t think I’ve made anyone this mad in all my years of gaming. I’d like to make it up to you if there is any way I can!
Cya Up!
Well, to begin, I must apologize for presenting my frustration (in that post last night) with all the manner of a 1st class Dickhead. Using terms such as "clueless twit" are unjustified and equally undignified. I regret my tone and inflection. Hopefully you can accept this as a poor substitute for an in-person apology. But, since the insult was public, my apology must be public too.
On to the strategy. I'm a firm believer in not surrendering territory that has been paid for with sweat. At least not without being forced to do so. Within this context, I found the attack north, regardless of offline agreements, to be wasteful in that it allowed the generally unopposed loss of two critical bases in the south. Compounding this was the loss of a task force, which could not be replaced with the corrosponding loss of the southern port. Now, since it appears that it is difficult at best to organize anything in the MA, stopping the momentum of anything that does get started seems impossible. And, that's what this is, momentum. Success breeds success, so, once the horde of players sees the enemy fold, they continue to attack. Understandable. However, it is not generally prudent to reach beyond one's grasp. Most of my frustration was founded in the actions that took place earlier in the afternoon. When I logged on in the evening, the northern attack had apparently continued, but at least much of the Knits forces were now pounding the Bishes. Typically, the Knights were taking our bases with less than twenty attackers. No more than that were required at 18 because there were no more than four defenders. Had 5 or 6 players joined the defense before the field went down, we could have held it. As it was, my constant requests for assistance finaly paid off with individuals who came to 17 after we began fighting off attacks. By midnight we had enough people to retake 18. Even as I write this (7:15 PM), we still don't have A19 and P21 back. So, that loss is still haunting the Rooks.
A balanced offense is absolutely necessary when faced with a two-front war. You can certainly concentrate on one front, but you cannot afford to ignore the other. That happened Saturday evening, leading to a reset. I cannot overstate the value of ports. The ability to have mobile airfields and bombardment capability is a key to success. A one-two punch of a task force and land based airpower can dominate any area on the map.
One more point. Few understand that the best way short of capturing fields is to put the field out of service. Since we lack any sort of attrition effect, the concept of using bombers as bait to draw up fighters (as was done in the ETO during WWII) won't work. However, we can use fighters to draw up fighters, keeping them occupied while heavy bombers knock out any supporting fields, this allowing for much easier captures. Indeed, there are many effective strategies that can be employed in the MA. One factor that can never be underestimated is this: Your enemy cannot attack you if his resources are pinned to their own fields. There's no doubt that many more bombers would go a long way to keeping the enemy off guard. Yet, most players are not here to fly bombers.
Anyway, I will be happy to discuss the many possibilities in an e-mail. And, no, you were not responsible for my being torqued last evening. It was the situation in general that had me crazy.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing agreed that the effective use of bombers is key in stopping an enemy offensive or capturing territory. Bombers can be used in a very good tactical role in AH in support of fighters and JABOs.
As you say if you are trying to capture a base bombers need not only to hit that base but the supporting bases. They need to target fuel first (since it stays down for 30 min) and then FHs (stay down for 15 minutes). If successful this really cuts the legs out of the defenders upping from the supporting base since they are upping with only 25% fuel and if you get the FHs can't up fighters. Timing is crucial as well as suppressing the target bases and then setting up a fighter screen to defend against enemy planes coming from a supporting base.
Same tactics can be used to stop an enemy offensive. This time your fighters setup a defensive screen and tie down the enemy fighters .. really go at them tooth and nail. Meanwhile you up buffs from a rear base and have them gain alt (of course this means the fighter screen has to hold on for about 30 minutes) and then strike the bases the enemy is upping from. Again targetting fuel but also targetting ammo and barracks. If successful while the enemy can still up fighters they will come up with 25% fuel, no ordinance, and can't up troops for 30 minutes. Which usually stops an offensive in its tracks if your fighters screen holds.
Key to all of this is fighter/jabo forces and bomber forces working together supporting each other. This is sort of hard to coordinate on a individual level which is why many of the Rook squads are now working together to try to do it on a squad level. Squads tasked for bomber work and attacking supporting bases .. others switched to southern fronts to hold the line while main offensive continues and what not.
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I too am sorry if actions in the North upset those fighting valiantly in the south.
Earlier I ran some bomber training for those interested in my squadron. After our training we can to the MA. I lead a group of 6 bomber for several runs. In that time we caputured several bases. I was working in consert with other squads on thier squadnight. This is something we enjoy and really enjoy working as a large group.
Just another comment, I wonder if there was actualy 3 fronts going that night. You in the South, We in the north (A10, A9, A53,A52) and those pushing west (A5,A4)
The CAF often works together with other Rookland Squads, as we work together, we learn each others strength and needs. This makes it easy to respond to each others needs at the same time. If I see any of the COs or Command staff of a rookland squad asking for assistance, if Im able, I try to respond. There is many others just like that.
Id really recommend that widewing and pimpjoe both consider talking more in depth with Dawg, GhostDancer or Myself. I can be reached at GrimmRP@Centurytel.net I would mail you, but I dont have Email addresses for you guys.
To be honest, Id really like to work side by side with you guys also. Being a Rook is the best thing in AH. Why? because we as a country DO attempt to work together. I pains me when we dont.
Again, my apoligies that we didnt see the needs in south and respond.
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Any help needed, always feel free to message me. I'm more interested in helping the team than improving my score.