Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on February 11, 2002, 08:56:19 AM
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He looked old and sick....lower lip trembled alot.
Don't think he is long for the world even if he manages to scrape together some dignity and respect....dunno how though.
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If I am correctly informed Mr. Arafat suffers for years from Morbus Parkinson - an illness which could be identified by the Trias Akinesis/Hypokinesis, Rigor and Tremor.
Its an illness which cant be cured - you can only fight the symptoms.
But I rembember reports on TV in the last 3 years which showed a Mr. Arafat who suffered from the symptoms of the M.Parkinson - disease - so its not a new fact.
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too bad he probably won't live to see his people out from under the boot of israeli imperialism.
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"too bad he probably won't live to see his people out from under the boot of israeli imperialism."
eeeks Imperialism? Dunno if I would classify Israel as an Imperialst nation...
Okay...I looked up the precise meaning of imperialism, and I guess an argument CAN be made in that light...I guess it was the way you worded that response that made me flinch.
Don't you think though that Arafat and some of his cronies are responsible for the mess that the Palestinians are in right now?
Israel seems to be the favourite "punching bag" for those who support underdog nations these days.
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--- "Israel seems to be the favourite "punching bag" for those who support underdog nations these days. ---
Maybe we in Germany learned how to identify fascistoid and terroristic policy like the actual policy of Israel against the Palestinians.
To say that the Palestinians who fights in desperate suicide actions against the intruders are the agressors is like to blame the jews of the Warsaw Ghetto that they fighted as agressors against the nazi intruders in WW2.
But there is one really good thing: In the european press Israel has always been safe against accusations. They were the good guys and the others the bad ones.
After Sharon has shown his open terrorist politic this has changed totally. Even here in Germany - which has been over-sensible to the Israelis for too long - there have been a change in the reports and the analysis of the actions in Middle East.
Important politicians blame Israel for their terroristic policy - also a new fact in the german politician-scene.
The blind support for Israel is fading and this is really a good effect.
The results of these developments will not come at once - but in some years there will be the first results.
And this development cant be stopped - thanks to the terroristic actions of Sharon and his military mob.
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Well, about israeli imperialism, this was ignored when I posted the link a few days ago, so you might want to know it:
More than 200 soldiers and officers of the IDF seem to agree with the Imperialism label. In fact their wording is much harsher:
http://www.seruv.org.il/defaultEng.asp
We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.
We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDFs human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.
We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.
We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israels defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose and we shall take no part in them.
Wow, that seems "leftist antisemitic propaganda" but man, it comes from where it comes... First hand account from frontline IDF personnel.
I grew admiring the struggle of the Haganah and the Kibbutzim, but I had to accept later that what they built turned into a paranoic military state with a democratic facade, a mockery of the values upon it was built and even further, a mockery of the memory of the Holocaust.
Nothing should further grant the state of Israel the ability to be judged on different standards on military aggression and unlawful occupation of lands.
The stand of these soldiers is the first positive thing I hear from there in a very long time, but I'm pessimist, as the most probable ending of this story will be their dismissal as traitors or even worse things.
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Careful...you are taking as Gospel the words of 200 individuals..it is as dangerous as believing what CNN reports.
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Mmm considering that statement, I bet that if there are 200 willing to risk who knows what by signing it, there must be a few thousands thinking the same but not brave enough to say it openly.
Almost all the information I get on the Middle East comes from israeli or north american sources. The fact is that even with those sources I tend to become more and more critic about the policies of Israel, as Sharon seems to stick to "the worse the better".
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6 months ago, any commentary showing Israel as less than honorable in its intentions and actions would have produced an incredible flamefest..
Now, folks nod sagely and state, "Israel and Sharon go too far..."
About time, in more ways than one...
Time for Israel to pull out of the occupied territories.
Time for Palestine to be aknowledged as a legitimate state by the Western World
Time for the US to stop rubber stamping the forein policy of an aggressor governemnt in Israel.
Time for the US to halt the defacto theft and illegal resale of American Military Technology by Israel to China, India and other nations that cannot purchase these systems from the US legitimately.
Time to end the billion dollar aid and trade packages to governments that refuse to treat as equal humans those that do not worship as they do. Being an Arab, Israli, Christian, Moslem Hindu or Buddhist should not make any man subhuman in any nations eyes...
Time for the Middle East to wake up, smell the coffe and bury the hatchets.
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Time for the Middle East to wake up, smell the coffe and bury the hatchets.
Ain't gonna happen. Not in our lifetime anyway. Why isn't that obvious?
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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How come Jordan and the other countries created at the same time as Isreal are never asked to do what Isreal is requested(demanded, actually) to do?
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Originally posted by koala
Ain't gonna happen. Not in our lifetime anyway. Why isn't that obvious?
Place US in place of Israeli and terrorist in place of Palestinians.
What do you find common?
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Originally posted by Curval
Israel seems to be the favourite "punching bag" for those who support underdog nations these days.
yeah, well, you know me, i just kinda blow with the wind.
and i was so pro-israeli a few months back....oh well, sigh, guess i've been 'made' as cause- hopper... back to the armenian issue i guess before it's the official buzz.
ps fishu - comparing u.s. vs terrorism and israel stomps palestinians is apples and oranges. (but it echoes a common sentiment so no surprise)
you should always compare like circumstances - perhaps american settlers vs indians is a little closer or maybe french resistance vs nazis. the relations between the parties are totally different so your comparison leaks.
i'm glad to help.
viva armenia!
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Mrfish,
Im comparing todays things to todays.
I only were looking for one common thing, not simply comparing 1 to 1.
You'll get it if you think it through few times.
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ZZZzzz
another Israeli/Palestinian go nowhere - do nothing thread
it'll end like most the others - mrfish & Udie slugging it out then kissin and makin up :)
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well let's see:
-u.s. is attacked by foreigners who infiltrated the country motivated by religious fervor....in short a soveriegn state chipped away by foreign interests
-israel tries with help from its big bully brothers to create a state where a bunch of people live and those people spend 50 yrs pathetically fighting back to regain control of their former homeland......so occupied people fighting back
nope dont see it - perhaps you could get out your crayons and draw me chart?
i guess if i shut off half my brain i can see it from your (and the great bleating masses) perspective - there are, after all, both bombs AND arabs involved in both scenarios.
is that the little similarity you eluded to?
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Mrfish,
First drop bombs, then wonder why they're doing suicide attacks and then drop more bombs and wondering again how they are making suicide attacks.
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Originally posted by Fishu
First drop bombs, then wonder why they're doing suicide attacks and then drop more bombs and wondering again how they are making suicide attacks.
First do suicide attacks, then wonder why they're dropping bombs, and then do some more suicide attacks and wonder yet again why they're dropping bombs.
It's a chicken and egg thing, and in any event, the attitudes of both sides lead to a perpetual cycle of violence. It's clear to me that bombing Palestinians is no more a solution to the Palestinian issue than strapping plastic explosives to yourself and suicide bombing a mall full of innocent teenagers.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Chicken and egg ?
The land of the palestinians has been stolen by a decision of some colonial-like foreigners.
And now the intruders even march in the few territories and ghettos where the palestinians live and behave like the SS-troops in the occupied territories during WW2.
So its not surprising that the desperate palestinians are finally willing to sacrifice themself by putting on suicide bombs.
This fighting will go on - on both sides. As I mentioned before, the more important thing is the change of mind considering these actions. The Israelis are no more innocent people (they never have been) - at least in the european press - now their government with their terroristic actions is more and more often openly compared with the Nazi terror-regime.
So just wait until the people think about these new facts.
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deadmanflying,
Yes, exactly that... not that, but your mentality with the issue.
Do you expect them to be different from you?
as in just giving up and saying "yes, our country mens killed your country mens without a reason and we're very sorry. bring your army and mow 'em down"
You surely wouldn't do that in either person, would you?
If someone drops bomb on my home, killing my dearest family members, I would be pretty pissed off and I'd be pretty pissed off, very likely blindfolded by the hatred.
If some terrorist would blow up himself on the streets and killing my family members and wounding me, I'd be also very pissed off and once again very likely blindfolded by the hatred.
If terrorists would blow up bombs and kill my country mens, I would be pretty willing to snap their heads off.
If enemy army would be dropping bombs on me and pushing me into the corner, I could loose hope for the future and make desperate attack on my enemy - which can well be called suicide attack.
Let's remember that many of these people doesn't have reliable news sources and their culture is whole different than yours.
To them, yours is different and they will think your news are biased and doesn't tell the whole truth.
Besides, whats the whole truth?
Many western news stations/magazines surely doesn't represent neutral side, neither ones in the middle east.
Are we, in the west and east, under some degree of propaganda of our own?
Could it effect in our ways of thinking the issue?
if not, how could you know it?
There are palestinians, who disagrees with acts of terrorists and there are westerners who disagrees with their goverment.
Afterall, how different can we really be?
just food for the thought.
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The land of the palestinians has been stolen by a decision of some colonial-like foreigners.
Jeepers, did they stop teaching history in Germany or something?:rolleyes:
As for chicken-egg thing - last time I heard every single move to peaceful solution by Israel (pulling troops out from occupied territories etc) was blown up by yet another muslim moron wanting to get to "heaven" via a back door of martyrdom. What do you want them to do? Turn another cheek? They'd been doing it for some 2000-4000 years until 60 years ago. Now they have a developed industrial country with probably the most combat ready army in the world and they're prepared to defend what they've built. Palestine in the same period built nothing. Zilch. Nada. Their "neighbours" - all those Arab states made them feel "welcome" several times and every single time Israel fought the attacks back with vengeance. And you expect them to be peaceful and friendly? How about making some friendly gestures first?
Mindless liberals will vote Hitler back into power one day:(
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"Mmm considering that statement, I bet that if there are 200 willing to risk who knows what by signing it, there must be a few thousands thinking the same but not brave enough to say it openly."
I'm not picking on you man, but the above is so full of assumptions that it is valueless. "I bet", and "there must be a few thousands" are opinion based and not factual.
"6 months ago, any commentary showing Israel as less than honorable in its intentions and actions would have produced an incredible flamefest.. "
This highlights my feelings on the subject. 6 months ago all the journalists and editors felt the same way...and that is what they reported. Now they report items that make news..."the underdog" stories...the poor Palestineans struggling for their freedom while being squashed by "imperialist" Israel.
What amazes me are the Reuters and A/P photographs we all see of gunmen with AKs shooting at Israeli soldiers...then the story attached relates how the Israelis have killed a bunch of civilians. What I want to know is "who took the damn picture?!" and why isn't a bullet on route?
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I bet the post WW2 German school system is designed to hate and distrust the "strong" and lavish praise and sypmathy on the "weak". Israel is very strong.
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Why the heck would anyone expect Israel to be honorable? It's a working democracy, for Christ's sake - same as ours or Germany's in 1933, only with a dozen parties instead of two.
miko
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It's very simple, and to me obvious. Apparently it isn't to many others.
1. There are many Arabs in the Middle East who are never going to be happy with any kind of Israeli nation in their part of the world. They are willing to kill themselves, and many Israelis along with them, in order to keep the struggle alive. A Palestinian state will not change this. It's just the most convient rallying point for now. Do you think Osama gives a damn about the Palestinians? Wake up.
2. As long as there are terrorists blowing up its citizens, Israel will always retaliate.
3. Neither the Israelis nor the Arabs are going to just disappear. Not unless something really big (and horrible) happens.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Nuke all middle-east ... but preserve oil ...