Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Nifty on February 11, 2002, 09:04:41 AM
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Reclaiming the Philippines
In late October 1944, 2 years and 7 months after leaving the Philippines, troops under the command of General Douglas MacArthur waded ashore on the island of Leyte, beginning the liberation of the islands. Three days later, the largest naval battle of World War II took place in the Gulf of Leyte. The intense fighting lasts for three days before the Japanese naval forces under the command of Admiral Kurita retreat northward. The IJN lost a total of 26 ships, including the carrier Zuikaku, to both airstrikes and naval bombardment, while managing only to sink 6 of the US Navy ships. Hellcats and Avengers from the American carriers claim several ships during the retreat.
Four days after MacArthur's landing at Leyte, The 7th and 9th Fighter Squadrons of the 49th Fighter Group arrive at the island, and begin preparations to operate out of Tacloban, Leyte. The P-38s and P-47s of the 49th begin to escort bombers leaving from Morotai in the south, as well as attacking Japanese naval forces and land forces on the islands of Mindanao.
The Japanese in response to the attacks prior to the Oct. 20th landing, bring in several squadrons of N1K's to the island of Luzon to help with defense. Several wings of A6M's, B5Ns and B6Ns remain in the carrier arm, but not anywhere near the strength at the height of Japanese Naval Air power. G4M Bettys are employed to strike at the advancing Allied ground forces on Leyte, as well as utilized as torpedo bombers against the American naval vessels. The 18th Hiko Sentai, with approximately 30 Ki-61s, was ordered to move to Bacolod on Negros Island in the Central Philippines to commence attacks on Allied airfields on Leyte and on invasion shipping in Leyte Gulf. The Battle of Leyte Gulf also marked the first time the Japanese employed Kamikaze, or Divine Wind, strikes.
Allied Aircraft
F4U-1D (C41)
F6F-5 (C37, C41)
P-38L (A4)
P-47D-25 (A4) (edited wrt info from Sancho! )
TBM-3 (C37, C41)
Allied Fleets
C37, C39: 3 carriers, 3 cruisers, 7 destroyers
C41: 3 carriers, 3 destroyers
C49: 3 cruisers, 4 destroyers
Axis Aircraft
A6M5b (A5, C25)
Ki-61-I-KAIc (A1)
N1K1 (N1K2-j subbing in) (A7, A10)
G4M (Ju88 subbing in) (A7, A10)
B6N (TBM-3 subbing in) (C25)
Axis Fleets
C17: 3 cruisers, 4 destroyers
C19: 3 cruisers, 4 destroyers
C25: 3 carriers, 3 destroyers
* Ju88 substituting for the Betty
* TBM-3 substituting for the Jill
* Allied forces control Leyte only (airfield on Bohol substituting for the Tacloban airfield)
Ok, squad CO's. Gimme your side preference and I'll see what I can do. (standard disclaimer of I'll try my best to give you what you ask for, but no guarantees! :) )
one other note. It's possible that the terrain team will get the Philippines updated and Ronni will "bless" it before Friday the 22nd. If that happens, we'll have the Tacloban airfeld on Leyte island, so only Leyte will have Allied fields (V6 and whatever the new A field will be.)
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LuftJägerKorps would actually like to fly allied for the next TOD.
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MAG-33 has "chose" sides in just about all but 2 TOD's, so to be fair, I'll let the CM's choose for us. Our preference obviously would be Allied since we're a historically based squadron, but we'll take whatever is left over this round.
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56th FG wants allied. We haven't flown jugs in TOD in forever. :)
A note on planeset: in October '44, they would have been using P-47D-30s, not D-11s. D-11 is a December '43 plane. Change the jug to -30 please.
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Heh..interesting post Sancho. in everything I found all that was mentioned was P-47 and no model. The only pic I found was of a P-47 with a razorback canopy.
Nifty did most of the work on it and I'm not sure he found anything else. Can you support your argument for the D-30 with some documentation? I know you 56th FG guys are crazy for "Jugs" and are most likely correct, but I'd like to see it:)
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Thats not a problem Skernsk. Sancho has better references than I do, but when i get home I can dig up something. First of all, the first bubble canopy model was the D25. D11 was a late '43, early 44 AC. Before 44 was over the P-47 had evolved many times.
Great looking TOD Nifty!! Thx for the work mate!
I am excited to be able to fly a Jug in a TOD again:)
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Nightmares VMF-101 would like to fly allies for this TOD. Never can pass up the chance to fly Hellcats. :)
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Originally posted by skernsk
Can you support your argument for the D-30 with some documentation? I know you 56th FG guys are crazy for "Jugs" and are most likely correct, but I'd like to see it:)
Luckily this topic has been discussed at length in the forums and we have a good search feature. Try here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26235&highlight=P-47D-30).
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Put the Mongrels where you need us Nif. :)
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412th is getting pretty tired of flying Axis. Please, please, please put us Allied this time.
P.S. I'm pretty sure Midnight won't mind this message on his behalf.
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BLUEmako
Thanks for getting to this mako.
Yes, I concur with mako's remarks. 412th has been axis 3 of the last TODs, time to get back in allied birds, maybe F6Fs this time :D
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sancho and ammo, can you guys find a definitive answer on the D30's delivery to the Pacific (specifically the 49th Fighter Group)? Oct 1944 was when the D30 entered service, but that might have been Europe only. I know I read that some P38 squads in the PTO weren't getting fresh rides because they were mostly being sent to the ETO squads (read this somewhere). I don't know if this was the case with the P47s, but it seemed to be the case with the P38 and P51 as well. I wouldn't be so "demanding" on this if it wasn't for the fact that the D30 carries an insane amount of ordnance compared to the D11 (and somewhat compared to the D25).
Dunno if any P47 books will be in the bookstores here, but I'll check this afternoon, as I'm going there anyways. I'll get back to you guys this evening on what P47 we'll have.
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Oh, I should be making side and frame CO assignments by tomorrow afternoon. Speak up for your squad preference, or I'll assume you want to be placed for the greater good of the TOD! :D
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE! NO ZEKES!
13TH TAS
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Yeager, you have a Private message.
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We have flown Axis every TOD so far. We'd like to do some slumming this time and fly Allied :)
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
We have flown Axis every TOD so far. We'd like to do some slumming this time and fly Allied :)
Flying Axis is tough, the bombers don't have the self-protection that Allied bombers have...I could go on and on, but its alot tougher to fly Axis either as Germans or Japanese,than it is Allied. My 2 cents.
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I ain't bitin' that worm. :)
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We want to be able to scream saki! and wasabi! over roger wilco, please.
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why do you wanna scream my cat's name (wasabi) over Roger Wilco? ;)
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Originally posted by Nifty
sancho and ammo, can you guys find a definitive answer on the D30's delivery to the Pacific (specifically the 49th Fighter Group)? Oct 1944 was when the D30 entered service, but that might have been Europe only. I know I read that some P38 squads in the PTO weren't getting fresh rides because they were mostly being sent to the ETO squads (read this somewhere). I don't know if this was the case with the P47s, but it seemed to be the case with the P38 and P51 as well. I wouldn't be so "demanding" on this if it wasn't for the fact that the D30 carries an insane amount of ordnance compared to the D11 (and somewhat compared to the D25).
Dunno if any P47 books will be in the bookstores here, but I'll check this afternoon, as I'm going there anyways. I'll get back to you guys this evening on what P47 we'll have.
Get back with you soon.
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Originally posted by Nifty
why do you wanna scream my cat's name (wasabi) over Roger Wilco? ;)
LOL that is just too funny.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Get back with you soon.
Thanks bro. No definitive answer on the model that I could find in the store today. Razorbacks were used in the pacific starting in 1943 was about the best I could get. Oh, and a reference for 45 for the D30 being delivered to a Mexican squad, but that's it for model references. Two 47s came into Tacloban in Nov 44 from Morotai, and got shot at by the AA, but no mention of the models. What I wouldn't have given for a PICTURE of those two Jugs in the book, or at least a mention of the canopy. :(
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Since MAW is the new guys on the block, put us where you need us.
40Dog
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The 49th Fighter Group (http://www.flyingknights.net/lineage.htm) were flying P-47s during 1943-1944 in the Pacific.
49th Pursuit Group, 15 Jan. 1941.
(in May 1942, Fighter; later, Fighter-Bomber)
Stations:
Selfridge Field, Michigan, 15 Jan. 1941;
Morrison Field, Florida, 22 May 1941 - 4 Jan. 1942;
Melbourne, Australia, 2 Feb. 1942;
Darwin, Australia, 17 Mar. 1942;
Port Moresby, New Guinea, c. 10 Oct. 1942:
Dobodura, New Guinea, 6 Mar 1943;
Gusap, New Guinea, 16 Dec. 1943;
Hollandia, New Guinea, 16 May 1944;
Biak, 26 June 1944;
Tacloban, Leyte, 24 Oct. 1944;
San Jose, Mindoro, 30 Dec. 1944;
Lingayen, Luzon, 26 Feb. 1945;
Okinawa, 16 Aug. 1945;
Atsugi, Japan, 15 Sept. 1945.
Aircraft:
P-35, 1941;
P-40, 1941 - 1943;
P-47, 1943 - 1944;
P-38, 1943, 1944 - 1946.
Operations:
Combat in Southwest Pacific, 18 Mar. 1942 - 5 Aug. 1945.
Campaigns:
(World War II)
East Indies;
Air Offensive, Japan;
China Defensive;
Papua;
New Guinea;
Bismarck Archipelago;
Western Pacific;
Leyte;
Luzon;
Southern Philippines;
China Offensive.
Decorations:
Distinguished Unit Citations:
Australia (18) Mar. - 25 Aug. 1942;
Papua, (c. 15 Oct.) 1942 - 23 Jan. 1943;
New Britain, 23 Oct. - 7 Nov. 1943;
Philippine Islands, 27 Oct. - 7 Dec. 1944.
2 Presidential Unit Citations
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now if only they told us what models of P47 they had when stationed at Tacloban in Oct 1944! ;) thx weazel.
speaking of Tacloban, didja have a chance to add it in the terrain?
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Put the SBM down for Axis, please. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Put the SBM down for Axis, please. :)
ya mean you want to shoot AT the pretty blue planes? ;)
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Certainly... we tend to fly Allied all the time, except for that last TOD. Unfortunately, none of us are remotely familiar with LuftWabble aircraft.
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I know titi about the 49th FG... nothing. All I can do is give you a picture of what jugs were in theatre in October '44 based on the information from Warren Bodie's P-47 book. Short version:
Of the options available, I believe the jug we need for this scenario is the -25.
The P-47D-30 began production at Farmingdale, NY in September of 1944--when exactly I don't know. But, by 20 September '44, the 10,000th P-47 made rolled of the lines, P-47D-30-RE 44-20441, #133 of 800 in that block. Republic's Evanston plant followed with the P-47D-30-RA and the production run of 1800 airframes--the largest block of P-47s--ran for six months. This is why you see new -30s coming into service well into 1945. :)
However, it is unlikely that any of the -30s would have made it out to the PTO by October '44 if the plants were just getting started making them in September '44. Unfortunately, I don't have any conclusive evidence of this, but it seems logical that transport times to the PTO would have been much longer to the PTO than ETO.
What models were in use in the PTO? Razorbacks and bubbletops all the way up to the P-47D-28. The -28 was in production in July '44 and I have a picture of a 348th FG -28 in October '44. Any razorbacks in theatre would have been -15 or later models with wing pylons for bombs or drop tanks, or earlier models with upgraded wings including pylons and fuel lines. Almost all the pictures of razorback jugs from PTO that I've seen (other than early 348th FG pics) have wing pylons.
Quite simply, the P-47D-11 of Aces High doesn't have the range or ordinance lifting capability for this stage of the war. The P-47D-30 is has 2600HP @ WEP and dive flaps, making it significantly different from earlier bubbletops. The P-47D-25, while probably not used in the PTO extensively (it was a small block for which the ETO had priority due to D-Day invasion), is a close match for the -26, -27, and -28 aircraft that were operating in the PTO, and has wing pylons like most of the razorbacks that were still operating in late '44.
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Thx sancho:)
I really need to get my own copy of the bodie book!
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Sancho, you rule. P-47-D25 it is.
Ammo, did ya get my email yesterday? You ok with it?
Sandman, there ain't no LW planes in this TOD. That isn't a Ju88, it's a G4M. :D
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We have flown Axis every TOD so far. We'd like to do some slumming this time and fly Allied
You LW boys rock. I don't see how you fly that stuff (German Iron) and survive. If I fly anything other than Allied I am nothing but a target in the sky.
My wife has two cats. I named them both.
Zeke and Lightning. :D
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We aim the pointy end at the big white star.
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Originally posted by Nifty
Sancho, you rule. P-47-D25 it is.
Ammo, did ya get my email yesterday? You ok with it?
Sandman, there ain't no LW planes in this TOD. That isn't a Ju88, it's a G4M. :D
Hi nifty, I diodnt receive a mail from you jwells9@satx.rr.com
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Originally posted by Nifty
Sancho, you rule. P-47-D25 it is.
Ammo, did ya get my email yesterday? You ok with it?
Sandman, there ain't no LW planes in this TOD. That isn't a Ju88, it's a G4M. :D
Yeah... you think you're funny. :D