Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kronos on February 11, 2002, 03:04:20 PM
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Originally posted by pyro in the news forum
We had planned for 1.09 a new bomber system where a single pilot had the ability to control a formation of bombers rather than just a single plane
He goes on to say that they are not planning this in 1.09 anymore but........
ALL i can say is
WOW
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Do I get to be a schwarm??
:D
F.
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How are the guns controlled on these three unmanned bombers?
Either:
A) The single manned gun position controls all guns in the field of fire
or
B) Auto gunners.
Although I will wait and see my gut feel on this matter is not good.
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I don't figure it would bode well. Picture even in our small squad of 10 pilots, we could up 30 bombers!! I can picture endless carpet bombing becoming the main tactic.
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this is old news Sabre did an interview at the con.
HT had originally said 4 bombers to 1 pilot but they would adjust the "laser" accuracy of the bombers making high alt area bombing "more realistic". He never said how gunney would work or anything about 32/64 limits.
I was wondering how they were gonna pull this off given the complexity involved.
I think adding a perk value to each additional buff would be a good way to limit their numbers
1 buff free
10 perks fer each additional buff with a max at 4.
add that with a "more real" bombsite and dispersion. Buff gunner lethality and gun platform stabilty would need to be a toned down.
By gun stability I mean a hard manuvering buff would give its gunners very little chance of hitting a small fast fighter.
Also it would seem to me that at alts over 20k buffs become so more manuverable then fighters. I dunno how accurrate this is but I wish it would be looked at.
That said I participated in big week I attacked in every frame buff formation with 10+b17s at 25k in an a8. I killed 8 buffs over 3 (frame 1 I only saw 1 buff and got an assist on it) frames by flying right down the middle of their formation killing all 10 from dead 6. I was never damaged by a buff not once in 4 frames.
I killed 2 fighters aswell and was shot down by frenchie on the deck in the last few minuters of the last frame.
I have on shot down an entire flight of 7 b17s in the main in a g10 with 30mm and gondolas.
AG and I in 262s killed 10 b17s and 10 lancs in a single sortie.
My point here is not to brag but to address those who would cry about how hard it is to kill buffs let alone multiple buffs. The ez thing about killing buffs in ah is to force the gunner to keep switchin gun positions to track you. this keeps him from zeroing in. Now mix in gun positions on 4 buffs. You should be able to slash your way in forcing the pilot to switch gun pos so many times he will get dizzy. This will actualy make the last buff the hardest to kill because he has less gun positons to worry about.
Unless HT introduces some ai element to buff guns.
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Endless carpet bombing = High altittude dogfighting = fun.
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"Endless carpet bombing = High altittude dogfighting = fun."
I think you're on to something. This might just be HTC's answer to the 5k spit furballs.. This kinda forces players to fly something different, or gain alt for once. Might actually work, strat might come back.
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By Wotan "add that with a "more real" bombsite and dispersion. Buff gunner lethality and gun platform stabilty would need to be a toned down."
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I don't mind the changes you've mentioned and in fact would welcome one or two. However, if there is to be a decrease in the accuracy of the bomb site and more dispersion of the payload to make it "more real", I feel it should only be fair that bomb craters have some impact in the game. A GV should be able to drive over one at reduced speed, but there is no way an aircraft should be able to roll over one on take-off or landings at any speed.
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I think its odd that you were able to kill buffs from the dead 6 position without getting damaged. I'd have to say most people would not be able to do that (myself included). I usually start getting pinged from a distance of 1.2. I have to come in at some odd angles to survive at all. Perhaps lag is an issue.
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As long as it's not Otto... I hated that guy !
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EDIT these are large images..........
I still have the films........:)
Screenshot1 (http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/ss1.jpg)
3rd frames I killed 3 buffs this run 2 assist no damage
Screenshot2 (http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/ss2.jpg)
4th frame killed 4 buffs 2 assists no damage
Screenshot3 (http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/ss3.jpg)
again frame 4 continueing through formation 4 kills 2 deaths
Screenshot4 (http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/ss4.jpg)
heres near end of frame bear has a p47 hes scissoring with I spot him after killing a p38 and kill this 47. But then like a dummy I press against 2 more 47s and am killed by frenchy.
Screenshot5 (http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/ss5.jpg)
The scores are still there. The link is in the BW forum I killed 8 b17s out right 6(5 or 6) final destruction (assists) 1 p38 1 p47.
Frenchy hit my right wing tip causing me to "flip" and I was unable to recover and augered. I was in visual range of an air baser with ack. Had I not pressed I would have survived the evxent.
FYI I was the highest scoring Axis pilot and Frenchy was the highest scoring Allied pilot. When he killed me that tied us both at 10 kills a piece.
I wouldn't lie to ya mate every kill of a b17 I made in BW was from 6 o'clock. I kept my speed up around 350 and to keep from overshooting and to keep the b17 gunners from zeroing in I would start at a hi 4'0'clock/8'clock and do a wide displacement roll into the 17s 5/6/7 where I would fire cannons (20/30mm option) at close range then dive under and to the left to reset for the next one. I had dumped all my 13mm and was at or near 23-25k.
I had thought all those assists I got were kills as well but when I watched the film at the beginning of each run several 190s can be seen firing on the same buff.
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I forgot the point of my post.
In bigweek there was 1 pilot per buff and/or 1 gunner.
In the 4 buffs 1 pilot 3 guys could in affect be in a 12 buff formation. Whether my kills in Big Week were due to lag etc the relative same conditions will be present in the main with a large formation if not worse due to ther high numbers. Now you have 1 buff pilot having to bounce a round 24 or so gun positions.
Granted from 1 gun position you can probrably in affect fire all the guns at once but if the attacker forces the pilot to keep switchin gun positions making it tough to track and zero in it should be killing fish in a barrel.
But I suspect each buff will be allowed its own manned gunner or that some sort of otto will be necessary.
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One guy could control 40 x .50's. It wouldn't be that far off what we have now.
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Granted from 1 gun position you can probrably in affect fire all the guns at once but if the attacker forces the pilot to keep switchin gun positions making it tough to track and zero in it should be killing fish in a barrel.
yeah but my point is he has to aim and track the target from a position. If you can make him keep switching positions the harder it is for him to track you.
Granted I imagine once he pulls the trigger all the guns will open up. With buff guns to converging at one point there would be a "killzone" or death zone. The closer you get to the formation the fewer guns can be brought to bear on you. Or atleast it should be this way.
However I dont know how ht will address the buffs ability to "apparently" shoot through itself and if that would be the same for the formation. Or will killshootr work as if they other buffs were just another friendly.
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all
the way i would like to see it:
-1 manned bomber with manually controlled guns.
-3 unmanned buffs that fly on some sourt of autopilot in form with the manned buff.
now the way i would like to see the AI bombers work is that they keep a nice tight form WITHIN REASON. Eg: if the buff pilot loops, rolls, hammerheads, lomcevaks, or anything else funny, the other AI buffs should take awhile to come back into form. I bet that would be a biatch to code.
as for the guns.....give them otto, just like the field ack. with 10 guns on each plane and 30 AI guns in total (i went to skool uhuhuhuhuh...), flying into a buff form would look like flying at a cv. skeery.
mind you the manned buff should still have pilot/gunner controlled guns.
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!!!!!
put the manned buff in random positions!!!!! if the manned buff is always lead plane, all a fighter has to do is pop him/her, and down goes the form (i assume that it would be set up so if the "real" buff died the whole form would as well)
though i am dissapointed that the buff form thing is not coming in 1.09, i think eventually i will stop crying before i get dehydrated and die.
here's why, just an example: if there is one B17, and it has 6k of bombs, with its lazer sight it can drop 2 hangers.
now 4 buffs, each with 6k of eggs, bombing with some sort of dispersion...will most likely be able to kill 2 hangers :D
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the way i had imagined it
I would limit large formations to large fields (4 buffs)
I would limit a medium formation to medium fields (2 buffs)
Single buffs would remain the same available at all fields.
up 4 buff formation that flies a standard box at d600 or so
the pilot can jump to each buff
lead buff
buff pos 2
buff pos 3
buff pos 4
the pilot then can man the guns on each buff or have 1 gunner in each buff total of 4. If the buff has a gunner then the pilot can only switch to the pilot or bombadier position.
each buff that gets shot down gets scored as a kill against the the pilot.
Each buff in the formation with the exception of 1 is assigned a perk value 10-15 perks (could be lower but perks are easy to get). Each buff shot down the pilot loses those perks.
Now I can see the argument for otto. however theres no sneaking up on otto and in general its a lousy feature. WB3 gvs even have auto its a freakin joke.
The pilot should have the choice of several formations
x x
x x
. x
.x x
. x
x x x x
x
x
x
x
and the pilot could set max and min distance between the buffs in formation.
Should the lead bomber do any manuvering he must return to level flight and click a "rejoin" button. If the formation gets to far apart the pilot would have to jump to each buff and fly them back into range, say d3k and then hit "rejoin"
It may be a good idea to link the multi buffs option to the mission planner and assign waypoints that the formation would follow why on auto pilot. This way if theres just the pilot to man the guns the formation will stay on course.
The buffs would have an option to
1. drop on the lead
2. pilot jumps to each buff seperately and bombs.
I would have no single bomb drops for buffs that couldn't do it historically. The way I understand it buffs could drop individual racks of bombs but not salvo 1 at a time.
By doing this the lanc, b24 and a b29 would be prime because of their large loads.
I would exempt planes like the mossie, il2, tbm and stukas whose level bombing capabilities are limited and would be more effective glide/dive bombing.
By hey if i ran the world thats how i'd do it,,,,,,
:p
There has to be limitations. I am not gonna attack 32 frame rate killing otto gunning buffs. Nor would I tolerate endless waves of them ruining my gameplay. I would quit ah first so would quite a few others.
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We'll se more than one sending desperately "six calls" to his own buffs :D