Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CRASH on February 12, 2002, 08:25:19 AM
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Since we as a BB comunity seem to be on the subject of improving AH generally I'd like to make some suggestions.
I'd like to see strat play a larger part in the game, although in what form I'll leave to the experts to figure out as long as it meant that for a country to survive they'd have to both defend strategic targets and make strategic strikes to weaken their opponents. I think that would lessen the continual furball type of thing and spread the action over more of the map.
Why does a country want or need a fighter force? The answer, quite simply and in keeping with age old sound military doctrine is to hold the high ground. For if you can hold the high ground, in this case the air space over a battlefield, you have greater control over whats happening on the ground. The ground war is the driving force behind airpower, controlling the ground war by controlling airspace is the only reason airpower exists, and without a robust ground war to influence air power is superfluous. To a large extent, the lack of a meaningfull and robust ground war result in what we have in the MA. Launch, climb, furball, die, launch, climb, furball, die...ad nauseum. Now, what does all this gibberish mean? Expand the ground war. Make it possible for a well coordinated gv column to take a base or city without air support. Make every front line base vulnerable to gv attack and capture. Base ack shouldn't destroy tanks, only airplanes and other gv's should be able to destroy tanks. A couple of HE rounds should destroy a hanger, not 40, thats rediculous. Make the spawn points around bases random so that everyone doesnt spawn in the same spot. I think osti and tank guns are way to vulnerable to a/c gunfire and definately need to be hardend. I think that if you wanna stop a tank you should have to hit it with a bomb or a boat load of 20mm API.
I know HT wants to develop an infantry model with the idea of having underground bunkers to capture and the like. I'd like to see an fps infantry model above ground as well if its technically feasible. As a pilot I'd like to have infantry to strafe , and at the same time, as long as there's cover I dont mind bein' a target.
I think that if implemented these things would really round out the air war in general and give us good reason to fly other than furball, not to mention attract players interested in things other than the air war, therebye benifiting all of us.
Either way AH is still a great game
CRASH
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The reason for a fighter force in "real life" is debatable but for me as a customer paying to play a GAME.. I want to fight em against other planes and... just as in the real world I don't want to do it in dribs and drabs of 1 v 1. I could do that in a dueling arena. I want the complexity that is the AH furball. Multi player fighter combat should be just that.
As for boring... I have never seen a furball that was the same but... all the "strat" has a phony sameness that only the most easily amused or timid could enjoy for very long.
Soo.... why not go to the CT? It is all strat and there is very little population density. You can fly out a tank of fuel and never see another plane... even a friendly. You should be in heaven there. You can milkrun fields totally unapossed or fly around for 20 minutes looking for someone who has nodded off to kill. I tshould be perfect but.... Sometimes those guys just want to fur. Hard to get guys to pay to be bored I guess.
lazs
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Lazshole, you know if you play offline there is a nice low furball at every field! 4 to 1 odds, target rich environment, no bombers, no Gvs, no strat, big names to shoot down. Every fight is different because; some times it takes 10 rounds to kill a con, sometimes up to 50! Sometimes the left wing breaks off first, other times the rudder or right wing might break off first. Its really just your kind of arena. Best of all, there will be just as many folks who like you offline as on!
eskimo
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Eskimo, go wipe yer shoes off.......you just stepped in some more lazshit.....:D
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Best of all, there will be just as many folks who like you offline as on!
eskimo
ROTFLOL!!! (Cleaning monitor off)
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Main arena is "anything goes"..that includes killing other peoples fun. No matter what happens, as soon as you get three people together your going to ruin someones fun. Thats exactly how the MA works and it works real well. I enjoy having my fun killed. Thats part of the experience but whats even more fun is killing some one elses fun. Dont like furballing? tough toejam. Go somewhere else. Dont like buffs killing your hangers? Tough toejam,
go somewhere else. Mad at your country for not kissing your bellybutton everytime you bend over? Tough toejam, go somewhere else.
Want strat? dedicated teamwork on a country level? Go join a TOD. The MA is "anything goes" and thats why I like it.
Dont like it? tough toejam, go somewhere else.
Yeager
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I would imagine you'd see some pretty large furballs in airspace over large ground battles to capture cities and such, Laz, you'd be in heavan. I'm not sure where your getting this 1v1 stuff in an arena that regularly has 350 people in it. I'm not sure but it seems to me that your probably the only person in the game calling for less strat. Plenty of arguments over what form strat should take, but certainly most people would like to see more if they have an opinion at all. I could be wrong, I would imagine that they'll way into this if thats the case. The ct is a completely different animal and bears no comparison to this. Either way I'm sure my suggestions wont ever be implemented so I wouldn't be too concerned about furball land being changed in any meaningfull way:)
CRASH
Originally posted by lazs2
The reason for a fighter force in "real life" is debatable but for me as a customer paying to play a GAME.. I want to fight em against other planes and... just as in the real world I don't want to do it in dribs and drabs of 1 v 1. I could do that in a dueling arena. I want the complexity that is the AH furball. Multi player fighter combat should be just that.
As for boring... I have never seen a furball that was the same but... all the "strat" has a phony sameness that only the most easily amused or timid could enjoy for very long.
Soo.... why not go to the CT? It is all strat and there is very little population density. You can fly out a tank of fuel and never see another plane... even a friendly. You should be in heaven there. You can milkrun fields totally unapossed or fly around for 20 minutes looking for someone who has nodded off to kill. I tshould be perfect but.... Sometimes those guys just want to fur. Hard to get guys to pay to be bored I guess.
lazs
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Soo.... why not go to the CT? It is all strat and there is very little population density. You can fly out a tank of fuel
This ain't true Lazs. If there's more than 10 people in there, fights are plentiful.
Had 15 people on yesterday, and me, Hajo, Hazed and Saw barely reached 9k before we got jumped by allies...2...3...4 of them....shot down one...another spit comes...
That's where the real action is, the CT. Fights are much more furious and unpredictable due to the lower icon settings. And ya actually get to fight historical match-ups. P47s and 51s vs 109s and 190s...
Sure, it's not for your average "I wanna dive into a furball and blast away and then look on dar to see if I am clear and if I am not run home before repeating ad nausem" dweeb. That was my freebie slam at the MA, for no particular reason, other than I think that'll mean people will like me more, and god knows I need that.
Have fun in the MA. If ya don't like the CT - don't go there. No need to go on about how much you dislike it bud - we got the idea. I can see your points regarding the MA and why it provides the most fun for you - hell, when I am in the same mood, I go for the MA too.
You get your fun outta AH one way, I get it another, and we both can get what we want without competing with each other. Pretty marvellous, I'd say :).
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I'm at a loss here but what I think your saying is if one would like to see anything at all changed...."tough toejam, go somewhere else". I'm not quite sure that would represent a viable business model in any industry, much less a service oriented entertainment business like AH. I guess we should start a thread to compel HT to cancel the patch, after all, no changes tolerated.
CRASH
Originally posted by Yeager
Main arena is "anything goes"..that includes killing other peoples fun. No matter what happens, as soon as you get three people together your going to ruin someones fun. Thats exactly how the MA works and it works real well. I enjoy having my fun killed. Thats part of the experience but whats even more fun is killing some one elses fun. Dont like furballing? tough toejam. Go somewhere else. Dont like buffs killing your hangers? Tough toejam,
go somewhere else. Mad at your country for not kissing your bellybutton everytime you bend over? Tough toejam, go somewhere else.
Want strat? dedicated teamwork on a country level? Go join a TOD. The MA is "anything goes" and thats why I like it.
Dont like it? tough toejam, go somewhere else.
Yeager
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Exactly, the whole idea is to have more variety, not less. I dont want you to be forced to play my game, or anyone else's. Not interested in the ground war or strategic goals, dont participate in them, but it's nice to have them as available options when the same 'ol thing gets a little long in the tooth. And, remember the more variety ah has the more people that sign up, the bigger the furballs and ground battles, the more HT can afford better infrastructure, the more coders they can hire the faster and more interesting the patches come and become, it's really a win win for everyone to have more variety in the game.
CRASH
Originally posted by StSanta
This ain't true Lazs. If there's more than 10 people in there, fights are plentiful.
Had 15 people on yesterday, and me, Hajo, Hazed and Saw barely reached 9k before we got jumped by allies...2...3...4 of them....shot down one...another spit comes...
That's where the real action is, the CT. Fights are much more furious and unpredictable due to the lower icon settings. And ya actually get to fight historical match-ups. P47s and 51s vs 109s and 190s...
Sure, it's not for your average "I wanna dive into a furball and blast away and then look on dar to see if I am clear and if I am not run home before repeating ad nausem" dweeb. That was my freebie slam at the MA, for no particular reason, other than I think that'll mean people will like me more, and god knows I need that.
Have fun in the MA. If ya don't like the CT - don't go there. No need to go on about how much you dislike it bud - we got the idea. I can see your points regarding the MA and why it provides the most fun for you - hell, when I am in the same mood, I go for the MA too.
You get your fun outta AH one way, I get it another, and we both can get what we want without competing with each other. Pretty marvellous, I'd say :).
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I'm at a loss here
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Im talking to those that hate strat. Hate furballs. Hate P51Ds and smart flying (i.e. surviving to RTB). Im talking to those that hate things that wont be changing as long as MMOGs exist. Buffs are here to stay. Fighters and furballs are here to stay. Smart flyers who will not give in to the temptation to "dweeb out"...dumb flyers who simply want to and do enjoy themselves being "max dweebs". Its all here to stay. Dont like it?........
Hehe, tough toejam, go somewhere else.
Thats what Im saying.
Y
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Well said Yeag!!!
And I might add to that the following......
It's $15.00 lousy dollars a month....Quit Whinin!!!
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Eskimo, why bother arguing with an idiot? Just do what I did and put the lazsterbator on your ignore list. Then all you'll ever see from him is this: This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click here
Then you can actually have an intelligent discussion with the more rational people here.
Btw, I agree whole-heartedly with Yeager on this issue. Good post Yeager!
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Variety is good.
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Originally posted by banana
Eskimo, why bother arguing with an idiot? Just do what I did and put the lazsterbator on your ignore list. Then all you'll ever see from him is this: This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click here
Then you can actually have an intelligent discussion with the more rational people here.
Btw, I agree whole-heartedly with Yeager on this issue. Good post Yeager!
banana,
I know its totally pointless, but sometimes I actually enjoy arguing with Lazshole on his own pathetic level. Someone's got to do it! I know that it sounds like I'm really ticked at times, but I probably get more of a kick out of it than he does. I sometimes feel the need to give the Lazshole a dose of his own juvenile verbal abuse. Whether he laughs or cries, I don't care, he just needs a good squeak slappin at times. BTW, whenever he cries "Personal attacks" or completely avoids a solid slam against his "argument", I think he knows he's in an argument over his head.
I have never squelched anyone in the game because I get too much of a kick out of watching folks rant, cry, whine or whatever. I really never get mad in the game, or on the BB, I just sometimes don't like to let things go unchallenged. The very folks that I would want to squelch are typically the most entertaining dorks to watch.
Your advise is good for most folks, and appreciated.
I used to be a first grade teacher and am quite used to dealing with immature behavior/logic without being phased by it. I always wanted, however, to talk back to my kids the way they talk to each other, but never really could. I think the AH BB and the occasional Lazshole, allows me to "vent" like a kid, just for the hell of it.
Then again, it is a complete waste of time.
eskimo
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I like the original post
some people say that this is AH = air combat, but they
wouldnt put ground vehicles in the game if was only airwarfair.
I think a way for the planes to transport tanks and trucks that
can be driven by players would expand the game to new levels.
Have you ever tried to drive a panzer to the next town?
an hour later you arrive and get blown up? I'd rather fly any day
unless the tiresome drive is sped up some how....ie...drop me
in by a base and let me take it out without that dam drive.....
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yeager.. I pretty much agree. there needs to be variety and people need choice. I am for variety and choice. who wouldn't be? Well... except those who realize that their fun depends on "forcing" people to fly their way.
Now, other thatn that... there has to be some balance. You can'tg for instance allow the atomic bomb that would say, keep the arena down for 2 hours for the effort of one fluffer milrunning a back field... certainly that would be fun for him (tho god knows why) but..
Balance is the thing. If I kill another fighter in my mediocre -1A then I am indeed spoiling his fun but... he had at least an equal chance of spoiling mine plus.... he coulda just ignored me. That's right.. not engaged. It wouldn't a cost him anything. It's not like leaving me alone could destroy his ability to choose a new plane or take off or anything. My ability to "ruin his fun" is proportional to the effort needed to do it.
course... It get's a little more complex... If I want to fly say a D9 or a P51 then yeah... I am getting a slight to large advantage over someone flying mid war planes but no big deal (IMO) but... If I want to have "choice" to fly 51's or dora's against 109e's or P40's then I am ruining their fun in a pretty effortless and risk free (to me) manner.
And my little blubber eating buddie... I could really use a good squeak slapping. Somehow I just don't think you have it in you tho or you woulda done so by now. Heck, If u can't muster up a good squeak slapping tho.... I will settle for you having a point other than not liking me.
lazs
the "lazshole"
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Lazshole,
You've got it all wrong.
I do like you, in spite of how stupid you are.
eskimo
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Crash, I have to agree, althou this is an "Air" sym, the GV part seams far removed from the "Air". You know i've been around playing air syms for quite some time now, and lately I have been designing my maps centered around the CT "style" of play. I Think I have got a good balance in this map. Cooridinated attacks between land and ground will be a MUST , and i think this will be pretty hard for milkrunners also. Sofar althou I can texture well, I lack the experience in the objects and Strats department. I AM learning this in leaps and bounds, and have the map 95% complete, a few spawn points here, a few there and this puppy is DONE!
It's hard to make a map... PERIOD!, let alone One that pleases Mostly everyone, just ain't gonna happen, But i think there is something for everyone in this map.
Hopefully, the CT team will welcome this map, and i won't feel like damaged goods.
I've, for the first time in my life have read a "help me file":)
NUTTZ
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Wow, not very realsitic, but a very cool idea none the less.
CRASH
Originally posted by phentop
I like the original post
some people say that this is AH = air combat, but they
wouldnt put ground vehicles in the game if was only airwarfair.
I think a way for the planes to transport tanks and trucks that
can be driven by players would expand the game to new levels.
Have you ever tried to drive a panzer to the next town?
an hour later you arrive and get blown up? I'd rather fly any day
unless the tiresome drive is sped up some how....ie...drop me
in by a base and let me take it out without that dam drive.....
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So anyway, I'm reading this thread thinking Crash had some interesting ideas when it occurs to me. Crash is talking about adding more strat. I wondered if a certain member of the BBS had noticed Crash's blasphemous remarks, and if that persons unique brand of 'debating' would soon be seen in this thread.
I wasn't dissapointed. Thanks for the ignore suggestion banana.
Back to topic, im not sure I like the idea of a first person infantry component being added. The game's called Aces High for a reason, i'm sure the resources at HT could be used in better ways.
Apart from that I like the idea behind the suggestions. The air war was run to support the ground units. Planes didnt usually just fly around looking for other planes to shoot down, they escorted bombers, made ground attacks, supported infantry etc.
It'd be cool to make the ground war more accessible. Some anti-tank artillery would be a fun addition. Imagine a co-ord strike opening with some air units softening up the target then the armour rolling in under heavy artillery. Guys in the air fighting in a big furball for control of the field while buffs head to targets at the next base, softening them up in anticipation of future ground strikes.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
banana,
I know its totally pointless, but sometimes I actually enjoy arguing with Lazshole on his own pathetic level. Someone's got to do it!
tell me where to get a lazsbotomy so i can jump in this discussion, too. :confused:
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"Lazshole,
You've got it all wrong.
I do like you, in spite of how stupid you are.
eskimo"
So... since you don't dislike me then I am at a loss to know why you even post since you have no other point that i can see. No wonder all them first graders were laughing at you behind your back. Kids have excellent pomposity meters.
As to more strat... fine but... Realize that your goals may (probly aren't) everyones. You realize that because you see that people are not doing what you like. You can approch the "problem" from two different angles...
Since they are not doing what you want you and the "goal" you espouse is not attractive to them then you can simply punish them for having fun their way. Or...
you can come up with strat that is fun and easy to participate in. Not fun and easy byu your standards but fun and easy by a furballers standards who spends an hour or two per night on line tops.
An example of the latter would be to make fighters available till the field closed but make the fields easier to capture... The "reward" for us mindless furballers would be that there would be a lot of action at your "strat". A simple example admittedly but you get the idea?
lazs
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Hmm, I dont know about everyone else, but my goal is to add variety to the game. As far as I'm concerned there's no such thing as "people are not doing what I like". I have no opinion what so ever about what you or anyone else does in the game aside from expecting my countrymen to clear my tail occasionally when required, other than that, who cares what the other guy is doing? No matter how many bases get captured there's always a furball to be had. As a matter of fact as countries lose bases and have less territory the furball gets denser. I would imagine you would find that very appealing.
CRASH
Originally posted by lazs2
As to more strat... fine but... Realize that your goals may (probly aren't) everyones. You realize that because you see that people are not doing what you like. You can approch the "problem" from two different angles...
Since they are not doing what you want you and the "goal" you espouse is not attractive to them then you can simply punish them for having fun their way. Or...
[/B]
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".....Whether he laughs or cries, I don't care, he just needs a good squeak slappin at times....".
Well I see some squeak slappin' going on, but you ain't doing the slappin'. :)
bowser
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Lazshole, you know if you play offline there is a nice low furball at every field! 4 to 1 odds, target rich environment, no bombers, no Gvs, no strat, big names to shoot down. Every fight is different because; some times it takes 10 rounds to kill a con, sometimes up to 50! Sometimes the left wing breaks off first, other times the rudder or right wing might break off first. Its really just your kind of arena. Best of all, there will be just as many folks who like you offline as on!
ROFL :D
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>>>I think osti and tank guns are way to vulnerable to a/c gunfire and definately need to be hardend.<<<
Crash:
I see merit in what you suggest but, I do not agree with the above. This simply has not been my experience. I have strafed GVs many times and have not been easily able to destroy them.
And to strafe an Osti, unless the gunner is otherwise distracted is a hazardous undertaking at best. I find it easier to kill a GV with Rockets and bombs. Still GV attacks if well done, are tough to subdue, and if more ocurred would IMO, perhaps change some of the dynamics in the arena. Hell, might even be fun. :)
As it is though, field acks can shoot at GVs, and that would make it very difficult for a GV force, but not impossible.
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apar.. oh, I get it "aper" I'm a little slow witted.. maybe "parrot" would have been better?
lazs
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Maybe, I should change it to Lazs3? Fek the're to many of laz, lazs alrdy.
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I am a furballer,
I am a base attacker,
I am a GV killer,
I am a vulcher, and I am a base defender,
I am a dogfighter, and I am a HOer.
I am a gangbanger, and I have been gangbanged,
I am a buff driver, both high and low.
I am a tanker and an AA gunner.
I am cruiser and shore gunner.
I am a CV killer, and a CV driver.
I am a PT boat driver,
I am a strat guy
I know many planes fairly well,
And I even fly the goon.
Lazshole,
I do it all.
I understand the appeal of furballing.
But because I do it all, I am able to view the game from all perspectives based on experience, not uneducated guesswork. I know what makes it fun from all perspectives.
I respect the opinion of furballers'on furballing.
But I do not respect the opinion of furballers' who claim to have some "overall vision" of the game (that they can't or won't even explain in accurate detail) that is not based on any firsthand knowledge of any aspects of the game other than furballing.
Your self proclaimed expertise, is nothing more than self proclaimed.
In other words, beyond furballing, you don't know what you are taking about.
You opinions on gameplay, beyond furballing, are about as valuable and accurate as my opinions are on internal medicine. I.E. you don't know Jack.
Lastly,
You're a tard.
And I suppose that I'm a bit of a tard too, for giving someone who is so obviously (and admittedly) uninformed, the time of day.
eskimo
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Apar,
It sounds like the quote hit Ol Lazshole's nerve.
I guess he realizes there's a bit of truth to it, LOL.
I've never seen such a tard response to a simple quote.
eskimo
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Eskimo,
Ya ever wonder if ole Lassie is kin to Clinton?
I ain't seen anyone since ole "Free Willy" who could make a statement then deny ever making it or twist it out of a direct quote like our girl Lassie can.......;)