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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sox62 on February 12, 2002, 11:39:59 AM

Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Sox62 on February 12, 2002, 11:39:59 AM
Unreal.One of the biggest screwjobs I have ever seen.When did the BCS start to judge skating?

Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1330361)
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: babek- on February 12, 2002, 11:55:16 AM
The sport-moderator on german TV was so astonished about this unfair decision that he wasnt able to speak for minutes. Then he - with a very angry tone - continued his report.

The Canadians were better than the Russians - they deserved the gold medal.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: skernsk on February 12, 2002, 12:01:19 PM
That was pathetic.  I hate competitions like that where 3 amazinhunks can just throw the whole event down the toilet.  

I watched the event and was absolutely 100% convinced that was a gold medal performance.  BUT, I was pretty sure the handsomehunk judges would not "let" them win.

One thing that came to mind was the "Oath" that was taken by the judges to judge fairly and impartially" during the opening cermeonies.  Guess the figure skating judges weren't listening.

What surprised me was how friggin politically correct everyone was afterwards.  If it was me I'd have thrown a friggen fit and made damn sure the judges knew EXACTLY how I felt.

The Russian skaters actually think they won the event.....NOT!
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Raubvogel on February 12, 2002, 12:05:16 PM
It's fediddlein Ice skating, it doesn't matter who wins, they're all losers :D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Udie at Work on February 12, 2002, 12:43:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
It's fediddlein Ice skating, it doesn't matter who wins, they're all losers :D



Yeah, where's Nancy after all?  OR Tanya ;)



 why is it an event?
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Eagler on February 12, 2002, 12:43:18 PM
I don't know dink about ice skating scoring but it seems odd to see big swings btwn country judges score cards with them usually scoring their own higher.... saw one last night were everyone else gave this couple a >8.0 while the Jap judge gave them a 6.6
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: fd ski on February 12, 2002, 01:08:36 PM
judges submit their "grades" at same time and do not cosult wiht other judges ( actually i think they are physically separated from others ) hince conspiracy is quite out of question.

It's a subjective sport. If it had goals, it would be easier to judge.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: miko2d on February 12, 2002, 01:16:45 PM
Not only the whole thing is highly subjective, it does not have any foundation for the consistent scoring - otherwise the scores would not differ that much among judges.

 Anything scored by judges should not be considered sport but an art.

 You can use judges to count points or detect cheating, like in boxing, but any kind of value judgement is in direct contradiction to what the sport is all about.
 It is about winning without outside help. winning decided by voting committee is a contradiction in terms.

 miko
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Dago on February 12, 2002, 01:30:00 PM
I gotta be honest, I only saw the Canadiens skate, not the Russians, so I cant compare the two pairs, but the Canadiens did a beautiful job and looked flawless to me.

But, this doesnt come close to the time the young black American Olympic boxer, I think he name was Roy Hill, beat the snot out of a Korean boxer.   I mean he dominated the Korean in every way, and they awarded the decision to the Korean.  That was astounding.  It wasnt even close, not even in same country as close.

That was pure and simply a travesty, and that more than any one incident or all combined proved to me that the Olympic games are not the pure competition we would like to believe.  I thought the judges should have been jailed for life.

Dago
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Nifty on February 12, 2002, 01:39:26 PM
hehe, Germany beat the crap outta Slovakia!  3-0!  the goalie doesn't even start for his club team in Nuremburg.  what a story!

hmm, I hear skating and Olympics and I think of hockey!  sorry!  :p

Seriously, did anyone actually expect anything other than a judges controversy in an Olympic event, especially pairs figure skating?

funny you should bring up boxing.  1988 Middleweight bout goes to a decision.  It's given to Park of South Korea over Roy Jones, Jr.  Jones landed 80+ punches to Park's 30+.  That, combined with other issues, led to a revamping of Olympic boxing's judging practices.  Maybe the same will happen with figure skating eventually.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: easymo on February 12, 2002, 01:50:51 PM
People who watch ice dancing are light in the loafers.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Eagler on February 12, 2002, 01:57:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
People who watch ice dancing are light in the loafers.


whadda ya mean? Those girls have the best legs in the whole dang eeevent :)
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: easymo on February 12, 2002, 02:02:09 PM
No helmets?  No clubs?  It all sounds vaguely indecent
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: hblair on February 12, 2002, 02:02:37 PM
I watched it with my 10 yr old daughter. I agree that the Canadians were perfect. I couldn't believe it either. The russian skater clearly botched his landing.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: fd ski on February 12, 2002, 02:05:25 PM
Since the article makes a suggestion of some sort of "Alliance" for the "russians" on the part of Polish and Chinese judge, i decided to do some snooping.

Here is what i found:

Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze, Russia
Judge Ordinal Technical merit Presentation Total
1, Marina Sanaia, Russia 1 5.8 5.9 11.7
2, Jiasheng Yang, China 1 5.8 5.9 11.7
3, Lucy Brennan, U.S. 2 5.7 5.9 11.6
4, Marie Reine Le Gougne, France 1 5.8 5.9 11.7
5, Anna Sierocka, Poland 1 5.7 5.9 11.6
6, Benoit Lavoie, Canada 2 5.7 5.8 11.5
7, Vladislav Petukhov, Ukraine 1 5.8 5.9 11.7
8, Sissy Krick, Germany 2 5.8 5.8 11.6
9, Hideo Sugita, Japan 2 5.7 5.9 11.6
 
 
Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, Canada
Judge Ordinal Technical merit Presentation Total
1, Marina Sanaia, Russia 2 5.8 5.8 11.6
2, Jiasheng Yang, China 2 5.9 5.8 11.7
3, Lucy Brennan, U.S. 1 5.8 5.9 11.7
4, Marie Reine Le Gougne, France 2 5.8 5.8 11.6
5, Anna Sierocka, Poland 2 5.8 5.8 11.6
6, Benoit Lavoie, Canada 1 5.9 5.9 11.8
7, Vladislav Petukhov, Ukraine 2 5.8 5.8 11.6
8, Sissy Krick, Germany 1 5.9 5.9 11.8
9, Hideo Sugita, Japan 1 5.8 5.9 11.7



Look carefully, suggestion was that Cadanians' didn't win because of lack of 5.9 scores from Polish and Chinese judges.
Well, they also got 5.8s from France !!! Those whoopee communists !!! And Ukraine - and we know about them, don't we ?

If you want to start looking for partial judges: look at canadian judge:
Gave russians lowest grades in both categories, and highest to canadians in both.
Same goes for Russian judge as well :)

Disclaimer:

I didn't watch it, i have better things to do.

But making stupid geo-political statements by national news agencies anooys a living toejam out of me.

Poland has nationalistic hatred of Russia that even US can't match. China is more afraid of Russia then of US. How the hell did that reporter figure this out ?
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: hblair on February 12, 2002, 02:08:44 PM
Where's Boroda?
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: skernsk on February 12, 2002, 02:25:42 PM
fdski.  

I can't believe I am arguing figure skating a day after the event when it's all over but the crying...a new low for me.:)

According to those marks the Canadian team should have won.  It's the "artistic impression" that they got screwed on.  I'm about as artistic as hblair is a yankee.  I do think that if you have a gayer the costume and goofier music it has an immediate impression on the judges for some reason and they are likely to score you higher.  

I watched both of them skate.  Canadians did better (no mistakes), had much more intricate and scary looking lifts and throws, and they skated with passion that captured the building.  That to me is the deciding factor.  

Like I said...it's done and nothing can be done to change it.  Suck it up and move on as they say.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Udie at Work on February 12, 2002, 02:33:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
funny you should bring up boxing.  1988 Middleweight bout goes to a decision.  It's given to Park of South Korea over Roy Jones, Jr.  Jones landed 80+ punches to Park's 30+.  That, combined with other issues, led to a revamping of Olympic boxing's judging practices.  Maybe the same will happen with figure skating eventually.





 Park who?

 I saw Roy Jones Jr. kick the snot outa some dude on HBO a couple of weeks ago :D

 I bet if you asked Roy, he could care less about the olympic thingy.....
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Kratzer on February 12, 2002, 03:13:31 PM
A friend of mine at work summed it up best:

"Anything that has 'judges' isn't a sport, it's a pageant."
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: midnight Target on February 12, 2002, 03:15:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler


whadda ya mean? Those girls have the best legs in the whole dang eeevent :)



You got that right! I've had the hots for Dorothy Hamill since 1976......!!!

:cool:
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Krusher on February 12, 2002, 03:22:48 PM
yep, the Canadians got screwed. They need a better way to judge that is impartial. The fans at the arena went nuts for the Canadian team, it seams hard to believe that the judges didnt.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Soda on February 12, 2002, 03:28:59 PM
The problem is, figure skating, like boxing, has gotten a terrible reputation for this sort of thing.  I watched 3 different coverages of it yesterday and they all agreed that the Canadian team won while the Russian team had 3-4 mistakes in their program.  It's not the skaters faults though since they just go out and compete.

Overall score didn't mean much either as the ranking ordinal really decided the competition.  If you look at the total scores the Canadian team won by 4 points (104.7 to 105.1) but the ordinal score transpired to give the victory to the Russian team.

Apparently:
- the judges are NOT isolated in ice skating.  The US coverage quite clearly showed 3-4 of them sitting together at one point.
- the judges attend the practice sessions to watch the teams programs and can pre-grade based on difficulty/presentation.  The actual performance is not the sole graded aspect.
- judges are lobbied by coachs (and paid promoters) before the event and during the practice sessions.  It is accepted practice though many feel this should not be the case.

Strangely enough, Ice Dance, has had one of the worst skating reputations for being fixed and not pairs.  I hear the Olympic committee has asked the judges to assemble today and explain their scoring, not that anything will come of it.

I actually liked some aspects of the Russian performance better than the Canadian one.  The Russians should have gotten silver though since they missed some landings on their jumps.  She missed one and he almost wrecked on another.

-Soda
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: SirLoin on February 12, 2002, 03:34:35 PM
Reminds me of last year when they caught on camera two russian judges giving signals to each other during the score tallying.......Figure skating is by far the sleaziest sport in the world...Boxing and Mike Tyson come in a distant second.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: loser on February 12, 2002, 03:43:19 PM
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRR


k figure skating has never been one of my interests...

but last night my g/f made me watch the pairs final.


between my bouts of looking at the wall and making faces at my cat...i noticed..holy toejam..these people can skate.


then today i watched the endless replays of the skates (poor Ron Mclean, he better be geting paid big bucks to care about figure skating)

and god darn it if im not really pissed off  :mad:

My fellow Canadian skaters deserve that medal...no doubt about it (shut up)


however you cant take the medal away from the Russians,, that would suck for them even more...

cant believe im fuming mad about figure skating
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Thrawn on February 12, 2002, 04:50:10 PM
This is hardly the first time Canadian figure skaters got screwed out of gold at the Olympics.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Dune on February 12, 2002, 05:00:25 PM
I have to agree.  The Canadians got jobbed on that one.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Pongo on February 12, 2002, 07:36:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
judges submit their "grades" at same time and do not cosult wiht other judges ( actually i think they are physically separated from others ) hince conspiracy is quite out of question.

It's a subjective sport. If it had goals, it would be easier to judge.


what you meant to say I believe is that its subjective whether its a sport or not.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: midnight Target on February 12, 2002, 07:44:54 PM
It just wouldn't be an Olympics without a decent controversy!!
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Elfenwolf on February 12, 2002, 09:12:37 PM
Hey look, If all you Canadians feel like you got jobbed so bad by the Russians, then why don't you do the manly thing  and INVADE them? Huh? Put your ARMIES where your MOUTHS are, you bunch of frost-bitten sniveling WHINERS. Sheeesh, it's fuggin figure skating, for Christ's sakes. Who gives a rat's bellybutton but some stupid Cannuks watching their Goverment Subdsidised Televisions (Sonys, of course) from the comfort of their igloos??
Go spear a walrus,
Elfenwolf
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: loser on February 12, 2002, 09:21:07 PM
nice troll chitbag...wont bite
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Elfenwolf on February 12, 2002, 09:47:53 PM
hey loser, the correct term is "colostomy sack" and not "chitbag." And as far as trolling goes, well, Americans have won the gold medal in that sport since 1960.
All you Canadians would do with a gold medal is melt it down so you could buy American-made cigarettes anyway, so get over it already. Hell, it's already 36 hours later and Canada is STILL crying. Get over it before your tears freeze to your ruddy, pudgy cheeks.
Elfenwolf, colostomy sack extrodinaire
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Thrawn on February 12, 2002, 10:24:11 PM
Biography: I rap at a lot of local clubs in Wisconsin and I'm cutting a demo soon.
 
Location: Eu Claire, Wis.
 
Interests Performing: Rap Music  

Occupation: Dairy Farmer  


Oh god.  This has got to be a troll.  

Rapping, diary farmer eh?  I would give yeah 6.0 for originality, but I've already cashed the cheque the Russians gave me.:D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Doberman on February 12, 2002, 10:53:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
hehe, Germany beat the crap outta Slovakia!  3-0!  the goalie doesn't even start for his club team in Nuremburg.  what a story!

hmm, I hear skating and Olympics and I think of hockey!  sorry!  :p

Seriously, did anyone actually expect anything other than a judges controversy in an Olympic event, especially pairs figure skating?

funny you should bring up boxing.  1988 Middleweight bout goes to a decision.  It's given to Park of South Korea over Roy Jones, Jr.  Jones landed 80+ punches to Park's 30+.  That, combined with other issues, led to a revamping of Olympic boxing's judging practices.  Maybe the same will happen with figure skating eventually.


Soeul was a cesspool of host country favoritism and outright cheating.  Dozens of incidents were reported.  

Guy I went to high school with was competing in Tae Kwon Do.  Tapes clearly showed two hits which were not scored for him, and a clean miss that was awarded as a point for his opponent.  Co-incidentally enough the fight was for the gold against a Korean fighter in TKD's first Olympic appearance as the sport of the host country.  And judged by a Korean judge.  Needless to say, the US athlete (Juan Moreno) went home with the silver.  

D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Elfenwolf on February 12, 2002, 11:14:25 PM
Favortism in judging events has been going on for as long as the Olympics have, so what's the point? All the manly countries shrug it off and continue on, but the Canadians cry like their favorite ice fishing hole just froze over.

(singing) O CAN- a- da! Land of all the ice ba- bies
when WILL you EV-er grow up, o Can-a-DA? When WILL you quit your cry-ing, o- Can- a- da.

Why don't you guys get over it already?
Sheeesh,
Elfenwolf
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Octavius on February 12, 2002, 11:51:21 PM
Just heard that  Russian judge squealed to USA Today about some sort of deal they had worked out with French judges.  Not sure on all the details, but I guess we'll hear the real story tomorrow hopefully.  ... Damn, first time I felt the canucks were jipped!  lol! :D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: newguy on February 13, 2002, 01:18:33 AM
I didnt think the Olympics started until this Friday at 6pm eastern time. What is this 'figure skating'?

newguy
Go Team Canada
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: mrsid2 on February 13, 2002, 02:32:24 AM
It's commonly known that the judges choose the potential winners already before the event. In the worldchampionships you can follow couples progress slowly position by position untill they finally start taking nr.1 places and end up winning the championship.

The funny part is, that performance wise they might have been able to do that much earlier, but they won't do that untill they establish 'name' within the sport and get the judges on their side..

What can you say.. A weird sport.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Thrawn on February 13, 2002, 03:07:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by newguy
I didnt think the Olympics started until this Friday at 6pm eastern time. What is this 'figure skating'?

newguy
Go Team Canada


Something that happens on the ice between periods?:confused:

:D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: straffo on February 13, 2002, 03:34:41 AM
There's nothing new ...

How can it be otherwise ?
Having a judgement based on technical and artistic ?

Frankly 4 judges out of 5 for the canadian it's not that bad !

Considering they were showing the same program as the previous year whereas the Russian were showing a complete new one .

I don't think it was an unfair judgement regarding the point given .
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Hortlund on February 13, 2002, 04:19:43 AM
Sweden will win the hockey tournament.
And thats all that counts.

Screw figure skating, who cares about those morons anyway, same goes for curling..geez, can there BE a more gay sport than that.

And what about the speed skating? Who in their right frame of mind would want to wear those outfits? Bunch of tards all of them.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Tumor on February 13, 2002, 05:19:02 AM
Russia

Ukraine

France

  They all tied both couples in the technical portion with 5.8.  Two outright screw-ups by the Russian skaters were "not noticed" by the these three.  It doesn't make it right, but it's understandable the Russians would be blind.  Ukraine?  Can't figure that one out.  france?  Golly there's a big suprise.  Typical of the french vomits to have thier heads up their butts.  I noticed during the mens half-pipe snowboarding during the first qualifying run, the frogs scored Cass way below the other's.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: straffo on February 13, 2002, 06:45:47 AM
Quote

This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click em.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: -lynx- on February 13, 2002, 09:34:10 AM
fd-ski - if you actually look at the results of your "snooping around" you'll see that blaiming a Russian judge in favouritism is simpply BS. She gave a Canadian pair 0.1 less total than that of a Russian pair. Canadian judge "favoured" his/her (not sure what sex Benoit Lavoie is - you can never know with the French;)) side with 0.3...

The problem is that this score as far as I remember from the good old days has far less weight in determining the winner than the places judges put the skaters on. That is, they give marks for technical/artistic performance but also place a skater/pair on a "podium" - the lower that score - the higher the eventual placing is. It would be interesting who "screwed up" there.

Another thing to consider is that the highest and the lowerst scores are ignored hence obvious favouritism (one way or the other) is simply ignored when the final results are tallied.

Slugging off the Russian pair is grossly unfair regardless of how the Canadians feel about it - they skated to the best of their ability, they did not cheat in any way and if the judges had decided to give them the gold - it was the judges decision and both countries were represented on the panel...
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Boroda on February 13, 2002, 10:33:49 AM
Ok, here I am ;)

The story is covered on Russian media and draws very much attention.

You, North Americans say Canadians were the best, so, I hope you understand that in Russia public opinion is opposite.

Yes, new programm. That's it.

Does Western media say that Tanya is a unique skater? In 1996 she got hit in her head by her partner's skate... Neurosurgeons said it's doubtfull she will ever walk... Her brain speech center was damaged, and she had to learn to speak again :( What Anton did for her is simply unbelievable...

Did your media show that Anton was deliberately hit and barely escaped trauma at the warm-up? You call it fair play?

Do you know the story how Tanya and Anton "lost" their World Championship Gold in 2000 due to Tanya's "doping test"? Damn doping test for a girl that skates with a hole in her skull!?

People here consider the subject a serious offence. Almost a personal offence. "It's no surprise: just remember when USSR won Canada Cup in 1981 and they didn't give us a prize!" :(

Media coverage of this Olympics is very surprising. I don't remember when journalists said so much about "unfair attitude" to Russian team. I don't like it. Our new-fangled "patriotic" trend to accuse everyone when our team looses competition after competition :(

Also, media concentrates on "American patriotism", sometimes even saying that foreign sportsmen are "second class" in Salt Lake. Opening ceremony with that flag didn't make people feel warmer too. :(

My opinion is that it's Sport, and it's a nonsence to speak about "unfair play" etc when you loose. (I wait in horror for a probable failure of Russian hockey team, made of NHL players who brilliantly got honorable 13th place on World Cup 99 in Leningrad...)  And it's stupid to engage politics into sport too, like in 1980 and 1984.

Hope I didn't offend anyone his time ;) I prefer mineral water on weekdays :)

Last note: here we have another supid campaign of "sports and physical culture propaganda". Putin said that he wants to bring sports to masses, like in Soviet times, and government bosses started to report about it, like "workplace gymnastics" and races in Smolniy corridors during lunch breaks. "Make a fool pray - and he'll break his forhead"... :(
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: midnight Target on February 13, 2002, 11:02:11 AM
The judging continues to be ridiculous. The 2 russian men's single skaters vieing for the gold skated last night. One FELL DOWN and still received 5.9's for his artistic expression. PAAALEEEZE! The only reason this was done was to keep him in the medal contention and the announcers said as much.
These skaters are great athletes, but they might as well judge it by the roar of the crowd.....like Queen for a Day. :mad:
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Boroda on February 13, 2002, 11:04:47 AM
5.9's for his artistic expression.

You answered it yourself. Not for technical performance.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: skernsk on February 13, 2002, 11:07:50 AM
Boroda,

I had no idea that the skater Tanya was all buggered up.  I salute the comeback she has made.

Dope testing.  It's part of the game whether you have a hole in your head or not.  all atheletes know the rules here.

As for the gold going to the Russians.  Well there is no doubt they were not the best that day.....
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Am0n on February 13, 2002, 11:09:47 AM
I cant believe i just read this post, let alone responding to it.



Who cares? This type of discusion is for a female only BBS.. dont use the checking out hot chicks scape-goat, you gotta PC and a multi-billion dollar industry of pornography at your finger tips! have at it :D


sad, i leave for a few weeks and come back to find out that you all have become peter-puffers!! :eek:
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: fd ski on February 13, 2002, 11:27:04 AM
thanks for posting that info boroda, i haven't heard a word about it here....

Just something about her doping, said in most suggestive fashion.

Lynx, i was just pointing out the idiocy of the press statements suggesting that only part of judges was partial.

And idea that "artistic expression" can be "graded" is as moronic as they get.  Anyone here thinks Picasso was artistic ?
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Rebel on February 13, 2002, 11:33:37 AM
Quote
Did your media show that Anton was deliberately hit and barely escaped trauma at the warm-up? You call it fair play?


Oh give me a friggin break!

This is coming from the same media who just simply *neglected to mention* that little *glitch* at Chernobyl.  Families in the affected area were simply told that "There was a small technical problem.  Just keep your windows closed, and wash your hands more often."

Russian media never ceases to amaze me, man.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: skernsk on February 13, 2002, 11:55:18 AM
Quote
And idea that "artistic expression" can be "graded" is as moronic as they get. Anyone here thinks Picasso was artistic ?


ROFL!  That pretty much sums it up.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Boroda on February 13, 2002, 12:00:04 PM
Rebel, the episode was shown on the TV. It's a fact. He was hit while performing a sertain figure with Tanya, not just skating around.

Please, shut up about Russian media. It's not Soviet media, it's in some ways much more free then your "democratic press" all bought by corporations and financial groups.

So far it's your media that didn't say a single word about Tanya's trauma and didn't show the above mentioned episode. Not to say about all the lies about life in USSR and Russia that they feed you for the last 50 years.

Next time you'll face radiational threat - feel free to open all windows and never wash  hands.  What do you think they were supposed to say?

Sorry, I only wished to show you how this episode is shown here, but as usual there's another comic-book popular history reader who always knows better.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: midnight Target on February 13, 2002, 12:44:25 PM
Quote
It was a sensational conclusion to a competition that also included a stunning, high-speed clash between Sale and Sikharulidze toward the end of the final group's six-minute warm-up.

Sale, 24, collided heavily with Sikharulidze as she stepped forward into a solo jump.

With the wind knocked out of her, Sale stayed down on one knee for some time as Sikharulidze and Pelletier hovered over her.

Finally Sale stood up, took a deep breath, and skated to the barrier under her own steam.

``Adrenaline is an amazing thing,'' said the Canadian, explaining how she managed to perform 15 minutes later. ``I had pain in my stomach and my arm was a little numb but I said to Dave 'This is for us. I'm not giving up.'



Quote
Boroda wrote: Did your media show that Anton was deliberately hit and barely escaped trauma at the warm-up? You call it fair play?


Did your media cover the 2 men standing over the little Canadian girl? Do you think those nasty Canadians sent Sale' in as some kind of human cruise missle to take Anton out? All media has some bias Boroda, but yours really stretched the truth about that collision.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: miko2d on February 13, 2002, 12:59:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Rebel, the episode was shown on the TV. It's a fact. He was hit while performing a sertain figure with Tanya, not just skating around.


 Of course it was mentioned. IIRC "canadian skater showed brilliant performance despite having wind knocked out of ?her? because of collision with russian skater".

Next time you'll face radiational threat - feel free to open all windows and never wash  hands.  What do you think they were supposed to say?
 They were supposed to evacuate the nearby areas when they first heard of a problem, like they did with Three-mile Island. Then I would not have paraded in Minsk on the 1st of May, 1986.

 But why the heck do you try to defend the old communist media anyway? It's not like the country is still being run by communists.

 Face it, guys - the Olympics are boring. What can the media not covering the Olympics directly (NBC) say about it? Recite the scores? A tasty morcel like this had to be invented if it did not happen - no reflection on the countries actually involved.

 miko
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Fatty on February 13, 2002, 01:07:48 PM
The best thing that could come out of this entire situation is an excuse to toss out all judged events.  Give em some kind of fiery death on ice gauntlet to race through, then I'll watch.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Boroda on February 13, 2002, 01:19:56 PM
Midnight, one question: did you see it on the TV yourself?

Yes, every media has it's bias. And it was the point of my first post: I don't like the way Russian media covers Olympics.

Old Soviet joke: Brezhnev and Reagan had a race for 100m. Pravda wrote: "General Secretary finished second, while American president was the last but one."

Miko, I do not protect commie media. I only want to say that Wesern media isn't better. And again: there is no such thing as a free press. Things have really changed here in the past 12 years, so the picture you try so hard to believe in is outdated.

BTW, do you really think they should have evacuated Minsk?! Where!? To the Urals? Chernobyl stunned us because it was the first time Sovie press talked about the disaster free. I mean that coverage was unbelievable according to Soviet standards.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Rebel on February 13, 2002, 01:27:28 PM
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Rebel, the episode was shown on the TV. It's a fact. He was hit while performing a sertain figure with Tanya, not just skating around.


Wrong again.  It's called warm-ups.  There were 2 other pairs skating with them- on an ice rink that normally supports only 1 program.

Sale was setting up for a double toe loop, looking at her partner.

She never even saw the guy.

Right-o, a little candian chick beat the crap out of your poor widdle Russian.  Gimmie a break.  If that was the case- an intentional collision- do you really think he'd immediately skate over to help her up?

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Please, shut up about Russian media. It's not Soviet media, it's in some ways much more free then your "democratic press" all bought by corporations and financial groups


Not even goin' there.
Every other country in the world reported it as an "accidental collision during warmups".
Russia chose to write it up as "Russian skater attacked during warm up!"

Are y'all still stuck on Tonya Harding, or somethin?

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So far it's your media that didn't say a single word about Tanya's trauma and didn't show the above mentioned episode. Not to say about all the lies about life in USSR and Russia that they feed you for the last 50 years.


Ignorance MUST be bliss.  Let me clue ya in on a little secret.

National Geographic did a HUGE investigative report on Russia- focussing on life before and after the fall of the Communist party.  I can't count the number of specials, reports, and even personal stories I've heard.  

As a matter of fact, they DID show the collision, and they DID make a HUGE mention of Tanya's blow to the head.  NBC even did a special before the skate on her.  20 minutes non-stop of how she came through.

Did Russia forget to mention the Uzbekistan girl's broken foot?  

Just curious.

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Next time you'll face radiational threat - feel free to open all windows and never wash hands. What do you think they were supposed to say?


I can't even BELIEVE you're defending this.  Time to throw the hammer down-

When a nuclear reactor goes kablooie, you evactuate every nearby villiage, town, and city, until you can contain and control the radiation levels.  Not to mention destroy all crops affected.  Livestock too, but only after extensive tests.   Strawberries were the size of apples.  Apples were the size of cantelopes.  That musta been cool, hehehe!

Families only found out a friggin MONTH after the thing blew that there was even a 'small technical problem'.  

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Sorry, I only wished to show you how this episode is shown here, but as usual there's another comic-book popular history reader who always knows better.


First off, I didn't say I knew how it was being presented in Russia.  I'm just saying it's offensive how they're presenting it.

FYI, compadre- my info comes mostly from Russians who immigrated, people who lived there.  

If you call the testimony of your former countrymen/women comic-book history, that's your call.  

FWIW, life has been really improving in Russia, I guess.  Just looked up a few things, and it seems like Internet access if growing, foriegn food restaraunts are starting up, and people are enjoying themselves a lot more.  

Can't wait till ya get to the point of free enterprise.  Russia will return to superpower status, mark my words.  But only after the corruption ends.  That's the only thing that's holdin her back.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Boroda on February 13, 2002, 02:01:33 PM
Gimmie a break. If that was the case- an intentional collision- do you really think he'd immediately skate over to help her up?

Well, he's a man, and he's a Georgian. Do you really think he could even think about NOT helping her up!?

Every other country in the world reported it as an "accidental collision during warmups". Russia chose to write it up as "Russian skater attacked during warm up!"

Well, noone said exactly that on TV. But after all this talks about Canadians being "better" (that is subjective) this episode looks more then strange. People here are really angry that someone AGAIN talks that our Champions should lose their medals. I already mentioned Canada Cup 1981.

National Geographic did a HUGE investigative report on Russia- focussing on life before and after the fall of the Communist party. I can't count the number of specials, reports, and even personal stories I've heard.

Interesting. Is anything from that report on the Web? What I see on Euronews and on the Web will give you a... hmmm... strange and biased view on the situation here.

When a nuclear reactor goes kablooie, you evactuate every nearby villiage, town, and city, until you can contain and control the radiation levels. Not to mention destroy all crops affected. Livestock too, but only after extensive tests. Strawberries were the size of apples. Apples were the size of cantelopes. That musta been cool, hehehe!

I know this a little better. Our former department here in Biochemical Physics Institute works on small radiation exposure, and all Chernobyl material is being analyzed.

Families only found out a friggin MONTH after the thing blew that there was even a 'small technical problem'.

It's not true.

Can't wait till ya get to the point of free enterprise. Russia will return to superpower status, mark my words. But only after the corruption ends. That's the only thing that's holdin her back.

It's mostly right, but not completely. Things are much more complicated. Corruption isn't the only problem. IMO - people understand "free enterprise", as they always did, even in Soviet times, but the problem is that bosses should simply let them work. (hehe, and last phrase is another incomplete description, things are too twisted to explain).
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: funkedup on February 13, 2002, 02:07:03 PM
The real issue is why the hell is this considered a sport and why is it part of the Olympics.  Real sports don't have judges or style points.  This is as much a sport as exotic dancing.  We don't give the dancers medals or points, we stuff dollars in their underwear.  If they changed all this ice prancing crap to all female and all nude, I might watch.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: -dead- on February 13, 2002, 02:54:18 PM
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And idea that "artistic expression" can be "graded" is as moronic as they get. Anyone here thinks Picasso was artistic ?

Hell yeah! Picasso rocks! Head on down to the Prado in Madrid & see all his preliminary sketches as well as the finished product, Guernica. Then you can really appreciate what he was up to.
As a useful aside:
Picasso was once accosted on a train by a stranger who recognized him. The stranger complained: Why couldn't he draw pictures of people the way they actually were? Why did he have to distort the way people looked? Picasso then asked the man to show him pictures of his family. After gazing at the snapshot, Picasso asked, "Wow, is your wife really that small and flat?“
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Rebel on February 13, 2002, 03:11:23 PM
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Well, he's a man, and he's a Georgian. Do you really think he could even think about NOT helping her up!?


Good point.  At least he was a gentleman.

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Well, noone said exactly that on TV. But after all this talks about Canadians being "better" (that is subjective) this episode looks more then strange. People here are really angry that someone AGAIN talks that our Champions should lose their medals. I already mentioned Canada Cup 1981.


Ohhhhhh....okay.  I was under the impression that that was the case.  My bad.

I can understand that being viewed in a little more of a hostile light- I know I'd be pissed.

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Interesting. Is anything from that report on the Web? What I see on Euronews and on the Web will give you a... hmmm... strange and biased view on the situation here.


To tell you the truth, I have no idea.  I was over at my parents for Thanksgiving, and saw it on the top of the table.  I was going out with my Russian girlfriend at the time, and we checked it out together.  

I know about the situation there, it's not to be desired, but to be honest, I believe it's better then where y'all were at 20 years ago.  

I've been meeting tons of new people, from several of the old bloc states, and some from good ol' Rodina herself, so I like to ask questions about what life was like when they lived there, etc.

My favorite guy to talk to is my ex-gf's grandfather- he was living right outside of Stalingrad during WW2.  

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I know this a little better. Our former department here in Biochemical Physics Institute works on small radiation exposure, and all Chernobyl material is being analyzed


That's cool.  Like I said, I only have several old newspapers, and the rantings of 4 old ladies, 3 old men, and a feisty woman I went out with, hehe.  

My ex talked about the enourmous fruits and veggies that year.  She has several pictures of 'em.


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It's not true.
 

Ummm.....yeah it is.  According to what the above said, anyway.  
Like I said,  your region (Moscow) might have heard of it before they did.  

Like I said- I wasn't there, and all I have are accounts from different people.

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It's mostly right, but not completely. Things are much more complicated. Corruption isn't the only problem. IMO - people understand "free enterprise", as they always did, even in Soviet times, but the problem is that bosses should simply let them work. (hehe, and last phrase is another incomplete description, things are too twisted to explain).


After talking to recent immigrants, I can tell ya yer right here :)

It's umm.....confusing......to say the least.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: straffo on February 13, 2002, 03:22:08 PM
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Originally posted by funkedup
crap to all female and all nude, I might watch.


You've a certain lack of imagination :D (J/K)

each time I see one of these girls
I ...
I ...
I...

sploch...



sorry :D
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Krusher on February 13, 2002, 03:30:27 PM
quote:
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Did your media show that Anton was deliberately hit and barely escaped trauma at the warm-up? You call it fair play?
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He was hit by a 95 pound girl and it sure looked like he hit her... accidently btw.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: miko2d on February 13, 2002, 03:31:53 PM
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Originally posted by Boroda
Miko, I do not protect commie media. I only want to say that Wesern media isn't better. And again: there is no such thing as a free press. Things have really changed here in the past 12 years, so the picture you try so hard to believe in is outdated.

 First you say "shut up about Russian media. It's not Soviet media" which is generally true, then you say "Next time you'll face radiational threat - feel free to open all windows and never wash hands. What do you think they were supposed to say?" referring to the Soviet media hiding the  disaster and apparently trying to justify it.
 Even if defense of their position was possible, why are you defending it if you claim it is long gone?
 My post was in support of yours and it was my point that "Things have really changed here in the past 12 years." I have no idea why you are throwing it at me other then that you did not read my post.

 You can argue that western media is not better from modern russian media because the latter one is allegedly of the same free-capitalist nature, but claiming that it (western media) is worse then even old communist media is ridiculous.
 The amount of press on every alternative topic imaginable (including communist press) in the US could not possibly be smaller then 6 pages of two government newspapers in communist times.
 But I guess all you know about US media is from russian media, if you believe that the accident was not reported or that in 50 years americans heard only lies about life in Russia. Why the heck would US media need to tell the lies about Soviets - the truth was disgusting enough.

BTW, do you really think they should have evacuated Minsk?! Where!? To the Urals?
 They should have told people the truth. They should have evacuated all people from the immediate danger area, children from even wider area and warned the rest of the population to NOT spend time outdoor unless absolutely necessary, to take showers when coming from outside, to NOT go to the 1st of May demostrations, etc.
 The evacuation to Urals does not sound to me as far-fetched idea because there was massive evacuation undertaked during much worse conditions of 1941. This one would not have to be so remote - most of Ukraine and russia were not affected due to the prevailing winds, etc.
 If I knew about Chernobyl, I might have volunteered to go there or I might have took the first train to Ukraine or most likely I would have spent those three days in Minsk indoors with my friend with a wet handcerchief over my mouth and frequent showering, not walking the streets.
 I did learn about it in around May 15th, not on April 27th.

 About the crash in a warmup, it looks like Anton was unscathed and Sale was traumatised, so "deliberate hit" must be a really inept one or a fantasy of your media.

 miko
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: SirLoin on February 13, 2002, 03:48:21 PM
"People here consider the subject a serious offence. Almost a personal offence. "It's no surprise: just remember when USSR won Canada Cup in 1981 and they didn't give us a prize!" :("

Yeah,I remember those honourable Russians who after winning the tourny,tried to smuggle the Canada Cup out of the country in a hockey bag.When told the cup was missing,security moved fast and caught them with the cup loaded on the bus ready to roll to the airport.

Or how about the officiating in the final game of the first USSR vs Canada series where the officials called phony penalites and the goal judge who refused to put the red light on when Canada scored the tying goal?
Title: Assisting the human cruise missle
Post by: midnight Target on February 13, 2002, 05:43:21 PM
Who was "almost traumatized"?
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Elfenwolf on February 13, 2002, 06:27:15 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't the Olympics supposed to promote goodwill and understanding between all the peoples of Earth?
Listen to yourselves. I was just kidding about Canada invading Russia, but it sounds like several of you Cannucks are ready to do exactly that. And likewise there's a few Russians who might like to nuke Canada now too. Wouldn't it be ironic if WW3 started over FIGURE SKATING??
The Olympics have outlived their usefulness. I say ban them.
Elfie
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Dos Equis on February 13, 2002, 06:34:17 PM
The Canadian chick is alot better looking than the Russian chick.

Since Katerina Witt posed in Playboy (I think they airbrushed her mustache out) and Tonya Harding did some porn, I'm sure it won't be long before the Canadian chick does Maxxim or something.
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Pongo on February 13, 2002, 07:52:26 PM
Boroda. you are pathetic..lol
Wasnt it one of you great country men that said something about telling a big enough lie????
You learned that one...
Title: Canadians finish second despite a "perfect" program
Post by: Sandman on February 13, 2002, 08:22:16 PM
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Originally posted by easymo
People who watch ice dancing are light in the loafers.


Katarina Witt makes me feel funny.:D
Title: Revenge from Team Canada!
Post by: Nifty on February 14, 2002, 11:49:42 AM
The Canadian girls who strap on pads as well as the skates have somewhat "avenged" their pairs figure skating team.  In women's hockey, Canada smacked Russia 7-0.  60 shots to 6 shots.  Wonder if the girls had payback in their minds during that game!  

hmm, now gotta see if Canada and Russia will meet in men's hockey.  ;)