Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BigCrate on February 12, 2002, 07:53:43 PM
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I have been thinking about joining the airforce for a awhile now..
I don't want totalk to my folks about this right now they have to much crap on their minds right now... I have been going from job to job since I grad. from highschool. And it has sucked I'm tired of going from job to job.. And I may not be able to go to the schools
I want to go to now.. My folks can't help me and I don't have the money. I know its a big decision but it might but cool to do for a couple years... but it has its draw backs too. I couldn't be a pilot I would have to be a maint. man and servicing the A/C.. Damn I hate these crossroads I could to... Give me yall's opinion on this.
Cw
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Joining the military is a wonderful decision - especially in your case. I joined the Marine Corps (going through an OCS program) and it was the best decision I ever made.
Mazz/Mike
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Go for it! I'm trying to persuade a daughter to join the army.
Everybody can't fly those birds, but its pretty cool to be around them! It will be an experience that will be with you for life, and pay for your college too. It also looks very good on a resume.
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Why can't you be a pilot?
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I was in the same boat about 13 years ago. Grew up po' went thru a few jobs, decided to join the Army. Was probably the best decision I ever made. If you really want to fly, you should consider the Army. It's the only service that will still train you as a pilot with only a HS Diploma. Warrant Officers make decent dough too. Or, you could be an enlisted crew chief and fly just about everyday. I started as an Aeroscout Observer, basically I spotted for cav units and marked bad guys on maps. I was also the co-pilot as an enlisted man. (officially we were only to fly in emergencies ;)) Later I became a Huey crew chief, and that was an awesome job too. Working on helicopters and flying air assault missions was the toejam. Now I fly a desk, but I'm still wringing every last drop out of the Army. I'm working on the last class towards my degree right now, and plan on going for a Master's after that. We aint rich, but I've come along way from scraping 47 cents outta my ashtray to get enough gas to get to work back in 1989 :)
Think it through and make sure it's what you want...but I'd recommend it to someone in your position. The educational benefits are awesome, and if you decide it's for you, you can retire after 20 and take it a bit easier. My advice: explore every service before you decide. And make sure you get all those recruiters to buy you lunch..they get reimbursed for it :)
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Well after High School I couldn't choose between barain surgery or being an astronaut so I went into the USAF.
I ended up being Fuels specialist (gas station attendant) stationed at Seymour Johnson AFB in Goldsboro NC.
I learned a lot there. I learned how to control my anger AND how to say "Check your oil?" with a smile.
Serious now. The USAF DID help me find what I wanted to do with my life AND what I didn't want .
My advice...if you have no plans for higher education then the USAF is a safe way (no one shoots at your ass)to figure out what you want to do.
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My son is in the Army, a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne. He enjoys it.
dago
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I have never regretted joining the Air Force, I love every minute of it. I would recommend it to anybody.
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I want to get more schooling! But if I joined up I would really want to be a pilot.. But only having a HSD to show for my schooling there is little chance of that.. But I was going to go to school to work on A/C.. Hell I don't know! Tell me more about this army flying with only a HSD.
and tell me about basic training how much of a pain in the bellybutton is it? And thnx fer yall input on this.. (i'm kinda leining towards enlisting but in what branch I don't know yet also I need to see if I'm up to this challange)
Cw
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Big Crate, You didn't say how old you are and just how long you've been going from job to job. My advice is to not make any decisions more serious other than what brand of beer to drink until you are at LEAST 25.
If you're 19-20 years old and just chilling at home then I say take full advantage of it and party while you can. Don't worry, life will make you grow up, so why rush it?
The worst choice I ever made was to join the service. All these non-coms yelled at me all the time, then they shipped my sorry bellybutton off to Viet Nam where everybody either shot at you or gave you the clap. I should have to fled to Canada with so many others of my generation, but I can't stand Canadians with all that "G'Day" and "Shrimp On The Barbie" crap.
I have to admit the dope was good in Southeast Asia and I got to experience every sexual position known to man, including several that involved a water buffalo, but all things considered if I had it to do over again I would have bought myself a Saturday Night Special and robbed liquor stores and carjacked people as I criscrossed the country.
I say stay at home as long as you can, party like it's 1999 and try not to think about anything but getting laid until you're at least 25.
Elfenwolf the Sensible
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Here's my $.02:
No, I never served in any of the armed forces.
My father, however, enlisted in the army, and thanks to the GI Bill, he got an education, after which he rose to the highest levels in his academic field.
I'm currently working on my crappy little PhD (well, two of them -- blame the Italians). One of the things I do to earn money is teach undergraduates at this here Big Ten university. On my class list, the GI Bill guys have little marks by them (their aid is dependent on passing performance). I can speak for myself, and all the other instructors here in saying that we really like teaching the GI Bill folks; politics don't enter into it. We get a bunch of rich kids from Chicago who are here to spend their parents' money on beer. Then there are a few folks in the class who know why the hell they're here, what they've done to get here, and who are dedicated to getting the most out of their college experience.
If you want to go to school, there's no shame in "taking the long route". You'll be the better for it, even if you hate every day.
Now, if you want to fly -- damn that would be nice, wouldn't it?
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If you join the Army as a Warrant Officer, flying is the only thing you'll ever do. You won't hold a command position, or a staff job, you just fly. And you don't need anything more than an HSD. I don't know much more than that. Go find a recruiter and talk to him, and then try and find someone who is not a recruiter and enlisted and talk to them. Reality will be somewhere in between.
And as long as you are not pathetically out of shape (can you walk farther then the distance from the computer to the fridge?), you should do just fine in basic. I'd say go for it.
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If I enlisted it would be to fly and to get more schooling.. So I won't be sitting on my bellybutton all time thinking about all the stuff I could be doing (like now).. And if the only thing I did was to fly
that would be great I don't care nothing a command or staff job.
Flying would be just fine :).. I used to could run a 100m dash in 11.44 sec. but that was something like 4 or 5 years ago. hehehe I gained 20 pounds since then. (was 145lbs now I'm about 170lbs) I just wanted to know if basic was a pain in the ass.
I havn't done any kind of training in awhile.
Cw
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.02$
1) Make sure you ask many questions when signing up! Once you sign you can't go back ;)
2) Sign up for 4 years, don't look at bonus. That bonus will not make any diffrence if you hate your job and stuck their for extra 2 years.
3) Try to run 2 miles in 18 minutes,( and not die :)) do 50 push-ups and sit-ups. If you can do that easily you can have fun in basic. If not make sure you can do at least 75-85% or it will be very hard in basic.
3) Expect great presure and yelling about 5 weeks, learning under pressure, ets (since you live home you should be ready, ;))
4) When you sign up DO NOT ENTER as GENERAL (job selection). You will end up with some crappy job for next 4 years.
5) Study for ASVAB, higher score=better job
6) Do not do anything stupid in basic, air force is just seeing how well you work under pressure, it will get better once first 2-3 weeks pass by.
7) Do NOT sleep when its not sleeping time
8) Don't laff, your trainer will say a lot of funny stuff.
9) Once in basic reporting statment "Sir, trainee reports us ordered". Remember it, It will help you
10) Do not take anything personal!!!
There are many small tips, other people can fill you in. If you have any questions I will be happy to help you.
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Originally posted by BigCrate
If I enlisted it would be to fly and to get more schooling.. So I won't be sitting on my bellybutton all time thinking about all the stuff I could be doing (like now).. And if the only thing I did was to fly
that would be great I don't care nothing a command or staff job.
Flying would be just fine :).. I used to could run a 100m dash in 11.44 sec. but that was something like 4 or 5 years ago. hehehe I gained 20 pounds since then. (was 145lbs now I'm about 170lbs) I just wanted to know if basic was a pain in the ass.
I havn't done any kind of training in awhile.
Cw
Be advised. Joining the Army is one thing. Becoming a pilot is another. The competition for that sort of thing is fierce, it's not an automatic garuntee'd type of thing. Not to mention the Flight Physical thing.
I'm coming up on 4yrs to go before I retire from the USAF. The wiser decision 16yrs ago would have had me busting my bellybutton and working my way through college. Don't get me wrong, I've loved every minute in the USAF, both as Security Forces and 6 years now in Intel (Intel has very good paying post retirement opportunities btw). IF you can stay in school...do it. If you want to enlist, do that, but finish school as soon as you can as the education opportunities are mind bogeling in the DoD (I've earned 80+ credit hours in military schools alone). Talk to a recruiter about ROTC too. There is a way if you have the credit hours, to join active duty and be discharged into a ROTC program a year later. Do this though...dude I'm serious. IF you join either service (and good god especially if you end up in Korea) DO NOT FREEKIN GET MARRIED LOLOL!! I've seen a thousand guys trade thier dreams at way too young an age over a woman. Also, be patient. You have time and plenty of it.
(not busting on Korea guys, but you take a toejamload of single guys, the majority of which have never been away from home save basic training, send them to Korea for a year and bing bang boom 1/2 are hitched in less than 6mo...those chicks have a WAY about'em ya can't resist hehe)
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There are really only two career fields to join in the AF. Flight engineer on a helo and HVAC (Air Conditioner work). Both are great while you are in... the HVAC can get you a great job when you get out.
Most of the rest are a mixed bag. Avoid MP (military police) and anything to do with food service. MP (even law enforcement side of it) is completely mind numbing and is more likely to lead to suicide than a job with any municipal police force.
Ground radio is a good job too. Its a decent catch all for electronics and they deploy virtually anywhere. It got me to Denmark, Panama and Colombia inside of two years... where 4 years as a weapons troop didn't get me anywhere but Idaho.
The military is the best place you can go to help get your priorities straight. Best of luck to you!
AKDejaVu
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hehehehehe
AF won't make me pilot cause I have no flight training and not schooling pat high school.. Hell I won't mind just working on the A/C.. hehehe I might go talk to a recruiter tomorrow I have nothing better to do.. I can get very competitive if there is a slight chance of me being a pilot! Hmmmm 4 years is a long time.
I'm greatful for all this input on this yall. hehehe If I do this my bronco projects goes on hold for a few months! :)
Cw
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I am not 100% clear on the schooling process after enlistment, but I do know that the all branches offer financial aid for college. The National Guard for example (not sure if it differs from area to area) pays close to 100% of your tuition needs.
Example: Commit 4 years to the service after college and your tuition and other expenses are taken care of. IMO, you've go ta good base for the rest of your life through this deal. You can reenlist after your time is up (the Navy, I believe, offers good $$ for reenlistment) or you can go your own way with loads of experience, training, and schooling.
This is exactly my plan after I graduate. Have the military pay for college, commit to a few years service, and I'll be set. I'm sure I'll love it in the service (preferably the Air Force), I'll be doing something I've always wanted to do ever since I was young (well, compared to some of the old farts around here, I still am young ;)). Nothing is set in stone for me yet, but atleast I have a general idea of how I'd like my future to play out.
One thing is for sure, BigCrate, talk to a recruiter, talk to anyone in the service and ask as many questions as you can. Whatever you decide, I hope its the right one :) Good luck mate :)
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BigCrate... once you take the ASFAB... your recruiter will provide you with some career field options. Give us the list and let us shed some light on the "real" job descriptions.
AKDejaVu
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umm you can fly as enlisted in the Air Force, granted your not a pilot but enlisted aircrew is da toejam. Its what I did when I was in. Served as Comm systems on AWACS. You get to wear the bag to work and get all the cool stuff. I got saluted a ton on non enlisted flying bases because people saw flight suit and instantly thought pilot. You can basically fly on anything with an E before it, hehe like the E-3, EC-130, E-8(JSTARS). Its not too rough, gotta do survival school and such and some deployments can be long but for me, enlisted aircrew is the only way to go if your signing up. It got me to where I am today and when I look back its only at the great times and great friends I made.
p.s. enlisted aircrew only makes up around 2% of the air force, pretty close group.
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I see alot of guys wanting to be pilots on this board thinking about the military - thats only natural because this, after all, the Aces High board. :P Yes the Army will train you as WO and you will fly some (friends pop is 50 y/o - still flying UH-1's for Uncle Sam - WO4 I think) Anyway - if you have a college degree, or are in college now and want to be a pilot, you have no beter chance than Marine Corps OCS. They GAURANTEE flight school if you qualify physically. Must have 20/20 vision, good shape, etc etc - no health defects and your in. All you have to do at that point is complete USMCOCS - hardest boot camp in the US, physically and mentally - attend TBS (The Basic School) at MCB Quantico and then your off to Pensacola, Fl. WHAT you fly will be determined by your performance, however you WILL fly if physically qualified. I went through OCS last summer on a ground contract and am trying DESPERATELY to change to an Air contract... no easy task - especially considering that Im breaking some of the rules to get there. ;-) If you want to fly, be SURE you get it in writing and go down to Q-town on an air contract.
Mazz/Mike
"Brand new Butter Bar"
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BigCrate Army can get you flying helicopters which is much harder and more jobs for on outside. Basic is alot of fun. You will hate it while going threw it but when done you will realise who much you learned in 8 weeks. Plus once in the Army you can apply to Flight school with help of your commander and all. look into it and make your choice, I joined when I was 23 and thaught I waited to long, go in now get the money for shcool or stay in and have fun. See the world also.
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if you are joining for school
1) 75% for classes is payed by AF, not books.
2) MG Bill can be used after...3 years:confused: It can be combined with 75% (Thats a good thing)
3) Online /Onbase classes "might" be at your base.
You will not be going to classes for abuot a year or so. Depends on your Tech school lenght and CDC and OJT. Sometimes you can get f#$%ed by AF. If AF put you on 12hrs shift (damn terrorists :mad:), I don't think you going to go school. My friend is C-5 engine mech and he has been working for about 4 month on 12 hrs shift. Ever seen a walking zobie? :eek:
To fly aircraft you MUST be officer. ( look into ROTC, OTS ets)
To be a aircrew you have to have rank to go with it. Higher rank, more likely you will be selected. If you come in with out any collage you will be E-1 or (with couple collage credits)E-2 (about 1200/month (free food/housing/utility).
(damn I feel like a recruiter)
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Originally posted by Russian
if you are joining for school
1) 75% for classes is payed by AF, not books.
2) MG Bill can be used after...3 years:confused: It can be combined with 75% (Thats a good thing)
3) Online /Onbase classes "might" be at your base.
You will not be going to classes for abuot a year or so. Depends on your Tech school lenght and CDC and OJT. Sometimes you can get f#$%ed by AF. If AF put you on 12hrs shift (damn terrorists :mad:), I don't think you going to go school. My friend is C-5 engine mech and he has been working for about 4 month on 12 hrs shift. Ever seen a walking zobie? :eek:
To fly aircraft you MUST be officer. ( look into ROTC, OTS ets)
To be a aircrew you have to have rank to go with it. Higher rank, more likely you will be selected. If you come in with out any collage you will be E-1 or (with couple collage credits)E-2 (about 1200/month (free food/housing/utility).
(damn I feel like a recruiter)
Have they done away with the 6 year wonder's (A1Cs)?? I haven't checked on that in awhile.
75% tuition is a big time help, but you also have to watch what school. There is a yearly cap.
...However, certificate programs, including MSCE and CISCO are covered 100% if you time it right. They are capped too based on the fiscal year.
Airmen (E-1 through E-4), are still getting the shaft considering pay. Well, for allot of career fields anyway. At E-5 things start getting a bit more comfortable. Nobody enlists in the military to get rich, keep that in mind. What hurts is when you get to where I am now. Throw in BAS/BAH (housing allowance and rations) and I make about 36k a year. Civilian who works next to me doing the same job, except far fewer hours, 0 deployment time WITH the option to say "I quit" if he wants gets about 70k a year (on top of his retirement paycheck in many cases). Another thing, the USAF promotes folks much slower than the other services (E-1,2,3,4 is automatic based on time). E-5's and up is a competetition in what is somehow a fine line between a really good system of competition slanted by an entirely subjective yearly rating system that can blow your next promotion. E-8 and E-9 is tough as hell.
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Hmmmm what about time to myself?? I don't mind busting my ass
if I get some free time to work on my bronco or mes with AH.. I know during basic you get 0 free time but thats fine.. But after that will i get a day or two off to mess around and go fishing and such?? If I bust my bellybutton all the time and get no time to myself. I go insane hhhheheehehe I have to a few hours off atleast to work on my bronco or to go fishing. And what about driving.. I have 2 cars one is a chevy truck and the other is my bronco bronco.. Can I keep my truck on base to use when I get leave??
hehhehe my folks are gonna toejam when I tell em this. :) I probab;y
won't be flying AH anymore if i do this but I don't mind that. I will be doing something I like. (hopefully)
Cw
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During basic you get 0 free time, about 6 weeks. Tech school depends on your job, can be 1.5 years (launguist) to about 1-3 month (cook, desk jockey etc). Tech school have about 3-4 hours to kill a day with weekend free. There are fazes/stages 1/2/3/4 1= can’t go off-base, have to be back to your squadron around 21:00, must wear uniform. 2 stage = Can go off base but have to wear blues. 3 = curfew at 22:00 and can wear civilian cloth. 4= etc, etc, etc.
During regular job once you are done with tech school it just like another job. 7:00-16:00 w/ 1 hour launch.
Tumor, Are you talking about if anyone joins for 6 years, they become automatically A1C (E-3)? If so, it true ;)
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but damn son, Join the Navy! You want time to yourself? Hell, we'll give you 6 whole hours in a 5.5x2.5 rack for sleep and masturbation. Can't beat that (well actually that's the whole point!)
Honestly, I spent 8 Years in the Navy (5 Active, 3 Reserve) as a Russian Linguist, and it really helped me sort things out. Like many have already said here, I joined the service not really knowing what to do. I wanted to go to School, but I didn't have the Grades or the money. The Navy sent me to Monterey, California where I Spent a year learning Russian.
If you deceided not to fly, you might look into Intel. In the Airforce and Navy, you can ride in the RC-135/EP-3 (And if you're lucky, get rammed by a Chinese dweeb). I mean, you won't be flying the plane, but you will be riding.
If you do try to get some sort of pilot status, be very carefull. I've met several people who let the recruiters tell them all about flight opportunities only to ask themselve WTF Happened when they ended up washing Airplanes.
Unless you are a complete popsicle you should be able to get through Basic. Hell, you might take a nap on the plane down to San Antonio and wake up 6 weeks later without noticing. (This is only Applicable to the Airforce and Navy, I'm not sure about the Army, and the Jarheads scare the toejam out of me) It's mostly just a head game. Remind yourself that it's over in 6 weeks, and things could be a lot worse and more humiliating if you were a POW or a convict or hell, a greeter at Wall Mart.
Anyhow, the Navy was a good time, Partied WAY too much, but have great stories to tell. It gave me the time I needed to grow up, and when I got out, I was ready to go back to school and start over. That was 5 years ago, and I've since graduated from the University of California, Riverside, and I'm getting ready to apply to Law school in the Fall.
-Sikboy
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I wish I'd joined at 18. Unfortunately, I didn't figure out that that it was something I was going to wish I had done with my life till I was 25, had a good paying job, a wife, and lots of expenses - things that weren't an issue 7 years before. I talked to recruiters, and ended up deciding it just wasn't in the cards, but I think I'll probably regret that I didn't do it when I was fresh out of high school (and in good shape) for the rest of my life.
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The era of manned aircraft is rapidly drawing to a close. Don't you watch news or Simpsons cartoon?
"The actuall fighting will be done by small robots and your task will be to build and maintain those robots!" - from the episode where Bart and Lisa enroll into military school.
So becoming a pilot now would be like training if horse cavalry before WWII - it had some uses but most damage was done by artillery specialists raining death from covered positions.
Even now a pilot is just a guy delivering ordnance in the approximate vicinity of the target.
The target recognition is performed by a techie with a computer analysing data patterns.
The actual hitting is done by a techie who inputs GPS coordinates of a target into the ordnance.
miko
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I was in your situation about 10 years ago.
I did 4 years in the navy, and if i had to do it again, i'd think twice about it.
Don't get me wrong, i liked it. It tought me few things, about live and education, especially. But 4 years is a long time.
Here is my suggestion to you:
a) sign up for 2 or 3 years. Discipline and self evaluation will be there in that time, no point waiting for 4 years.
b) get a job and bust your bellybutton though college, any college. Get a degree in ANYTHING, then apply for OCS.
If you gonna do military, then be an officer, not a deckhand.
Degree in Liberal Arts will suffice, trust me.
Also, there is a mistaken notion that once you pull your 4, things will get easier. They won't.
Even with help as far as paying for school goes, i still have to work full time, and i'm going to school full time. I have no time left for anything else, unfortunatelly.
The only differences between now and 10 years ago are that:
- i'm smarter
- i have way better job. But that's due to my own learning, not Navy.
If you have self discipline, start busting your ass. That's the way its going to be from now on.
If you don't, then join the military, they will teach you.
Also, if you are able to get any "assiciate" position with a serious company those days, they will pay for your college in full.
Just something to consider.
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Russian,
Whats this about rank to be aircrew? The enlisted radar techs in the back of the AWACS are E-2s if they sign up straight with no college. If ya pick an aircrew job and finish the tech school, anyone can be aircrew. Oh and finish the survival school. :)
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When selecting crewman for aircraft, rank will make difference, A1C Vs Msgt. Guess who will win? Survival school is tough, (those poor rabbits) :(
http://www.af.mil
many useful links
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http://www.airforce.com/index_fr.htm
BigCrate,just happened to have the AF address handy.
Been trying to convince my youngest (21yrs) this is the smart move.
Good luck
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select crewman? Its your job to fly if you pick it when you sign up. Its not the groundcrewman turned aircrew, you sign up as aircrew. Trust me its what I did. I know of some groundcrew guys on the RC stuff but thats not the same. I mean air comm and radar tech stuff. If your an AB and ya finish your training your going flying. Only time rank is a factor is when ya dont wanna fly. Look into it, most dont know about it. Also rank can be a factor for special ops stuff overseas, HC130 stuff, guess now they are all MC130s. Rivet Rider national guard stuff outa pennsylvania is waaaaay cool stuff. :)
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Hell I just want to figure out the diddly I want to do with my life..
And i don't want to lose some freedoms I have doing it. (working my bronco, fishing, flying AH) But the pros out way the cons.. So I'm at damn crossroads.. I want to this but I don't want to give this up. hhehehe its enough to drive someone insane :).. And if i joined up I would losing alot but I also would be gaining alot to.
So this might be my few weeks on AH (heheh I had a run of 2 months here :)
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Big Crate, please consider what you're saying here. Between the lines you're saying you want to mature, but the military won't do that for you. They will feed you, dress you, cut your hair, teach you how to walk properly, how to eat, toejam, brush your teeth, fold your clothes, and how NOT to think for yourself. I can't believe all these former lifers are saying it taught them "maturity." Hell, half the NCOs that retire can't even make their own sandwich, let alone actually function in the REAL world. Most of them end up dead of smoking or booze related illnesses within a few years of their military retirement.
The military is a last resort for guys that are too ugly to get a girlfriend or too lazy to study in school.
I only went in because my draft lottery number was 36 and I was under the mistaken belief that only draftees went to Viet Nam. WRONG!! Had my number not been so low I would have never gone in.
I'm amazed any parent would encourage their child to go into the service ESPECIALLY given the world's current political climate. I guess some people can't deal with their kids so they don't give a rat's bellybutton WHERE they go as long as it is somewhere far away from them. Great parenting, huh??
Kratzer, quit crying yourself to sleep because you missed your opportunity to become a man via the service. If you want to get in shape join a gym. And the rest of you guys quit encouraging this kid to make a life altering decision, OK? He should be out on a stream somewhere with a fly rod in his hand and a 6 pack of Lone Star Beer in the saddlebags of his Bronco.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
The military is a last resort for guys that are too ugly to get a girlfriend or too lazy to study in school....
I might be offended if this weren't so comically inaccurate.
I'm amazed any parent would encourage their child to go into the service ESPECIALLY given the world's current political climate. I guess some people can't deal with their kids so they don't give a rat's bellybutton WHERE they go as long as it is somewhere far away from them. Great parenting, huh??
There's a lot of speculation here, which is too bad, because it just adds to the ad hominim arguments from the first quote.
And the rest of you guys quit encouraging this kid to make a life altering decision, OK? He should be out on a stream somewhere with a fly rod in his hand and a 6 pack of Lone Star Beer in the saddlebags of his Bronco.
We wouldn't be encouraging this kid to make the decision if we didn't think that it was a good one. He asked for our opinions, and we gave them. You dissagree, and that's good. Because not everything is milk and honey in the military, and Crate needs to hear that. But your dissenting vioce might lose some of its effectiveness when you start ripping on people who had good experiences under different circumstances than you. Had I been in the army during Vietnam, I would probably have a Vastly different opinion than I do. I was never shot at, I learned a Valuble skill (Russian) and I had a lot of fun. I also got yelled at a lot. I got masted for poor use of judgement (which would have gone unpunished in the real world). I had some amazingly incompetent LT's, and every once in a while they had me convinced that I was a toejam bird.
If you want to take up the con here, explain what you didn't like about the service. There's really no need for you to go after those of us who don't see eye to eye with you.
-Sikboy
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I was on nuclear submarine fer 6 years. Lots of stress and hard work but I feel I got more from it then the Navy got from me.
You've got to come to terms with the reallity that nothing you do in life will be easy.
You can go out on your own get a job diggin ditches or food service or what ever and work your way through school. You could bust your arse in the military and if you go in with an attitude "I am gonna get the most out this as I can" you will learn alot. If you expect to shuffle around with your hands in your pockets gettin by for 4 years you wont be any better off then when ya entered. The military has a lot to offer but it demands alot back.
You can start now while your young enough so that when you begin to age like the rest of us you can enjoy life.
6 months working at burger king may suck but imagine 20 years from now if thats the only thing you can do.
Anybody can skate through 4 years of the military. If you choose to go, go in ready to take advantage of all of it. When and if you get out you'll be much better off.
Or get your but in community college and get a job to pay for it.
AH is game puttin off life to play it aint a smart move.......
Good luck
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
I'm amazed any parent would encourage their child to go into the service ESPECIALLY given the world's current political climate.
ESPECIALLY Considering where the world is going, having a trained soldier about your person at all times may be the biggest factor in survival. I would definitely encourage all my children to serve in the army - and not as sissy techies - that they can do all their lives after getting their PhD.s - but in real fighting specialities. Just like I did. It was hell but well worth it.
Even in open militarty conflicts, being a soldier seems to be a safest thing nowdays compared to civilians.
You have to pay for college education even though you can easily learn the same thing from books (med school excepted of course). But you are offered a military education for free and even get paid for it!
miko
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I'm not saying me playing AH is holding me back. From joining up
I'm was just listing examples of some of the things I would have to give up. To do this. And some other that I don't want to list.
Me thinking about joining up is scaring the hell outta me. Its not because of basic or going to war etc.. I gues it scares me because it is unknown. I have no idea what the hell it would be like if I joined up.. It may sound good on paper but after everything is said and done it might not be the greatest of ideas.
And that scares the hell outta me. Doing this is going to change my life but how i don't know.. One part of me wants to join.
And another part want wants to find a job bust my bellybutton thru school. On the weekends go wheelin with friends or go fishing.
And come back monday morning ready to do it all over again.
If I joined up I might lose those things and that scares me to.
I don't want to lose the life I have. Tell me what yall think of that.
Yall call me by my name please. I'm Cody and my bronco nickname is the Crate I just added big cause its diddlying big :)
Cw
Cody
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If you're worried about losing the life you have, then you might want to stick around and go through the JC if you can. That's the one thing that I really regret about Joining the Navy, is that I was a "proxy-Friend" during my crew's salad days. I was lucky enough to get a second childhood when I went to college, but I was very sad watching my friends party while I was away. When I got out however, it was as if I hadn't left. We just picked things up where we left off (so much for maturing lol).
Consider this however, of my friends who went to the Junior College when I Joined the Navy, non of them graduated, or went on to the University. The only other guy who made it only did so after a 2 year stint in the Army as a Cav Scout. This is just anecdotal evidence, so don't assign too much importance to it, however I'm convinced that I wouldn'thave made it through either. Instead, I graduated in the top 5% of my class. Was it the Service? Im my opinion it was, because compared to the Defense Language Institute, College was easy. Anyhow, more food for thought lol
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
The military is a last resort for guys that are too ugly to get a girlfriend or too lazy to study in school.
BigCrate; ignore this idiot.
The Air Force has changed a great deal in the time since he claims to have been in. Once your training is complete you'll have a lot of free time. Depending on your apptitude and what jobs are available you may or may not be doing something you like. Depending on how enlistment quotas are being met, you may be able to get a guaranteed job. Get any guarantees in writing! Keep in mind a skill that will be beneficial in the civilian sector. No where but the military will you find the kind of training available and to be paid a decent salary while you train.
One major complaint by a lot of young people in the Air Force is having to share a room with someone and not being allowed to live off base even at your own expense. It was the plan of the Air Force to eliminate this irritation and allow everyone their own quarters. I've no idea if this is now the case.
Concerning learning responsibilty, something you have to learn by doing, the Air Force will provide the opportunity. Like everything else, it's what you make of it.
MSgt, USAF (ret)
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Whatever elfenwolf.
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The Military is what you make of it, like most things in life. If your a loser going in your going to be loser while in as well most likely. They simply take the material and shape it.
Your going to have some great times and some lousy times. The lessons you CAN learn there of sacrifice. team work and comradie are priceless. The U.S Army took me and shaped me into something far different than what I was going in.
Its YOUR choice...make an informed decision.
Elfenwolf... you get an honorable or general? LOL
xBAT
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Originally posted by Sikboy
If you want to take up the con here, explain what you didn't like about the service. There's really no need for you to go after those of us who don't see eye to eye with you.
-Sikboy
Since you asked-
OK, fair enough, Sikboy. Let's start with Basic Training. (making buzzer sound) Hated it! They wake you up in the middle of the night to go out and guard a damn clothes line, for Christ's sakes. The food sucked, the DI's had the intelligence of a turnip and the sense of humor of an Ayatollah, the clothes made me look frumpy, there were no chicks, and I had to put up with wanna-be war heros who just couldn't WAIT to get to Viet Nam. Why, they would do toejam like wake us up at 4 AM just so we could go stand at attention for an hour before we entered the mess hall.
We spit shined our boots till they looked like freshly chipped Obsidian, our hair was shaved so short we looked like the Hare Krisnas who used to frequent the airports back in the 60s and 70s, and no matter what we did it was never good enough to please our DIs. I realized 5 minutes into my military career that it was going to suck. Oh...and did I mention the two or three homosexuals who lied about their ages just so they could enlist and sleep in a barracks with 65 young boys? Luckily they were discovered early and tossed out.
I hated boot camp but I understood its purpose, which was to make you think properly, which according to the military means not thinking at all. Personally I feel either someone will stand tall when the time comes or they won't.
My buttons were polished, my shoes were shined and my dress uniform was immaculate, and STILL I was a virgin who couldn't get laid in spite of being so squared away.
Now Viet Nam was quite another story. Most of the times it was a blast, and the majority of action I saw was in the bars and potato houses on Plantation Road in Saigon. What WAS bizarre, however, was how they shipped us over there. We flew on commercial jetliners complete with stewardesses and everything.
There were NO rules about haircuts, I didn't shine my boots the whole time I was there, I rarely shaved, and even the Non Coms were bright enough not to mess with armed American Psychos on drugs. The beer was free, the pot was cheap (a pack of Salems would swap for a pack of Gold Leaf pre-rolled joints, complete with filters) and we made more money than the President of South Vietnam even.
Now if I wanted to get political here I could comment on who actually fought that war, why school deferments weren't granted to community college students, and how some of those from my generation used their Daddy's money and political clout to avoid service by joining National Guard units, which were virtually impossible for those of us among the "Masses" to get into.
Viet Nam was much like the Titanic when it sunk, and those of us poor or lower middle class kids who weren't in the lifeboats with the Clintions and the Bushes and the Quayles were sucked right down a vacuum.
Oh, sorry, I forgot- no politics. Far be it from me to say anything controversial, and anyway I don't want to read a zillion posts from retired peace time NCOs who disagree with my (admitted) slant on Viet Nam and feel that Quayle, Clinton and Bush were treated no differently than the rest of us.
After my year's tour I shipped back Stateside although I tried to sign for one more tour. To this day I have no idea why I wanted to stay there, I think it was because I felt I could do the job better than some newbie could. Unfortunately by January of 1972 we were starting our "phased withdrawal" or "Vietnamization" of the War, so my request was denied and I shipped back Stateside.
And guess what? The NCOs all turned into DICKS again. They made me shine my shoes (three times before they were satisified) cut my hair (twice) and took it upon themselves to make my remaining 1 year, 178 days and a wake-up a living hell. I pulled duty every holiday, I never caught a break and I was the biggest toejam bird ever. In hindsight, however, my attitude was a bit much and I tended to run my mouth quite a bit...plus I was dealing with really STUPID people, and I've always been intolorant of idiots.
I finished my hitch without ever getting Masted or into any serious trouble, got out in 1974, scammed the GI Bill people out of 220.00 a month while I corrupted the morals of several young ladies I met at the local Junior College and went on with my life, but I felt like I had missed out on part of my youth.
In hindsight I would never do it again, although I was just kidding about buying a Saturday Night Special and going on a cross country crime spree instead. And I've collected a whole bunch of benefits, too, from free medical care for life due to injuries I recieved to a no-down VA house loan, so in many ways it paid off.
Although I wouldn't want to repeat the experience I wouldn't trade it for the world. The friendships I developed were the deepest ever, and I still communicate with a couple of old buddies from 30+ years ago. Today a lot of my friends are vets, and some of them were Lifers, and the common bond- and love- we feel for each other ranks right up there with the love I feel for my family. In many ways I was blessed by the experience, and I apologize if I sound bitter because I don't feel bitter at all.
If Cody (God, is EVERY young man in Texas named Cody??) decides to join the service then I wish him luck, but the military, like anything else, won't magically change you...That's up to Cody to do. And if he goes in I hope he formulates a plan, writes down his goals, sticks with them and SAVES HIS MONEY rather than spending every dime he gets.
Basically I hate seeing kids have to grow up so fast because they're only young once. There's time for responsibilities down the road.
Now as far as "going after" anybody goes, reread my post and you'll see I said HALF the Lifers can't even make a sandwich, not ALL of them. If anything I'm being kind. And if any career guys take exception to my comment about how ugly they are? Hey, you post your picture and I'll post mine. I'm really pretty good looking, if I do say so myself.
Elfenwolf
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...plus I was dealing with really STUPID people, and I've always been intolorant of idiots.
Dealing with really stupid people was the single most usefull experience that I brough from the army. In my ordinary life I have very little chance to deal with people who do not have at least a graduate education. When I do meet them occasionally, the tolerance acquired in the army is an invaluable asset!
That is "most usefull". Most valuable I still consider ability to withstand physical and moral hardship and TWEP people but I never had a need to use one of those yet.
miko
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Ugh... I deal with nothing but college educated people, and believe me, education does NOT equal intelligence, nor lack of it ignorance. What all that education DOES add up to in a lot of cases is egotism and elitism, which are far, far more annoying.
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Wow - lot of interesting posts here - I see some people complaining that the military was a waste of time and some stating that it was the best decision they ever made. Personally I agree with the latter comment. In terms of whether it is more favorable to enter as an E or an O again there seems to be some differences in opinion here. Granted my experience is drasticly less than most of the guys on this board but going through OCS I noticed 2 things. 1. Most of the officer corps, of which I will be a part... is unimpressive... the officers at MCCDC were idiots, morons, suffering from delusions of grandure, and downright unfit for their posts. 2. The higher enlisted guys (E6-E8) were some of the finest people I have ever met in my life. For the individual who stated that lifers who retire drink themselves stupid and cant make their own food I respond with this - of my three instructors in Quantico - 2 E6's and an E7 - ALL THREE had BS's and the Gunny had a Masters to go with it. Just an idle point - I guess every branch is different. I will agree with the idea that service is what you make of it. You wanna think of it as prison, it will be - you want to think of it as an oppurtunity to advance? It will be. My father is happier than a pig in toejam that Im doing this because most of the guys he has met via his professional life are ex-military and MOST of them were hired on that basis alone. On a different note - you will hate Basic - no matter what branch... unless its the CG. :P Regardless - dont let Basic shape your view of the military - its not even close. Good luck in whatever you decision may be.
Mazz/Mike
OC, 177th OCC, USMC
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Hey, you post your picture and I'll post mine. I'm really pretty good looking, if I do say so myself.
Elfenwolf
Was this supposed to prove something? Just curious.
Anyhow, There you have it Cody. If you don't want to put up with stupid people telling you what to do and yelling at you. Or you don't feel like excessivly shining your shoes, stay away from the military (although The Airforce has these plastic boots that are always shinnie, they look hilarious too lol).
Sikboy.
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Elfenwolf... you get an honorable or general? LOL
Dont ask Dont tell xbat :)
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Originally posted by Kratzer
Ugh... I deal with nothing but college educated people, and believe me, education does NOT equal intelligence, nor lack of it ignorance. What all that education DOES add up to in a lot of cases is egotism and elitism, which are far, far more annoying.
Then you just have to believe me that ignorant and stupid people with college education are very different then people who view ability to read or being born in the city as suspicious and beating someone as the only way to deal with suspisious, solving an argument or a good entertainment.
How many times did the annoying college-educated elitists tried to beat you up for fun in the last weak? How many times did they try to take away your food? How many nights did they cause you to stay awake with a knife under your blanket?
How many people did you have sleeping around you who have never been exposed to any mechanism beyong a donkey, barely understand the language and who's fathers bought them wifes while they served in the army?
miko
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Basically, you get out what you put in, BigCrate. Sure it'll be a change of pace for you, but think of how you'll feel once the dust has settled. You'll have a good base to build from, you'll be in great shape, you'll learn discipline, and IMO you'll have a feeling of "yes, I *did* it." Think of all the other yahoos in the world loafing their way up the Burger King ladder while you, on the other hand, will have valuable life experience. Sure, you can gain experience at BK... finding the best way to flip da burger, but when will you really need that?
I'm still in school, I sign up for advanced and more difficult classes to challenge myself. I see screw offs and knuckleheads simply gliding through the years on the bare minimum.. skipping most classes, screwing around with a care free attitude. Some teachers say "oh look, there goes your future employees."
My problem used to be I thought too much. Had to think everything through twice before I even attempted to make a move. I turned myself around.. I feel I take many risks... Taking the dive, jumping into the unknown, just going for experience really pays off. I honestly can't wait for my opportunity. Whats the worst that could happen? So you end up not liking it? What could you lose? Some time out of your life in exchange for mounds of knowledge and experience? My philosophy has been to get a taste of everything you can, experience all you can experience, big or small, just be there. Then make your decision.
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LOL
I guess we're looking at opposite ends of the spectrum... I was trying more to make the point that good, honest, middle of the road people, with higher educations or not, are better than either... and education doesn't always mean a whole lot.
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Two good jobs to consider if you can get them, and you want to be aircrew (but no degree to be pilot/navigator/weapons officer) , are actually a Flight Engineer or a Loadmaster.
I know, Trash Haulers are not glamorous (cargo planes), but let me tell you. I spent 6 years in a C-130 unit, and these guys ALWAYS get the best trips, and get to see the entire world.
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I went to Navy OCS after completing my BS in mechanical engineering. After that I went into an area where I learned to SCUBA dive and travel around the world shooting, looting, and blowing things up. After the Navy I went back for my MBA.
I learned several langauges during my time in service and this has really helped me in my current job. I now work for a major international electronics company and travel all over the Americas. I do not believe I would have the confidence and success now had it not been for the service.
However, it's important to remember you won't get much out of any branch unless you committ yourself 100% (or anything in life for that matter). Committ yourself more than 100% and the returns are exponential.
My advice having seen this thing many times before...
Go to college....then go to OCS or become involved in ROTC.
If not ready for college, then join up, pick an area where you can learn something. Take as many college courses in an area of interest as possible while in the service. Utilize the bonus and money they can put aside for college to complete your degree after you leave.
After this if you want to go back in the service, options are direct commission, reserves, or OCS depending on your specialty and the needs of the military. Also, when you leave the military after the first round, the Guard or Reserves are a great way to earn money and continue building time for possible retirement benefits.
Personally, I had a blast and learned alot about worldy things and myself. Most of all I had the chance to serve my country and sometimes make a difference.
Buena suerte,
rogwar
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I'm gonna go talk to the tech school I was going sometime next week. To see if I can get a job throwing bags at DFW airport.
It gets my foot in the door with a big company.
If they can't help me i'll probably going the AF route.. I'll tell everybody when I leave for basic.. And see if i can get some leave to go to this year's AH con.. heheh I don't think of yall as friends its more a family this to me. some of the guys I have known for 6 years!
everybody in this game!
Cw
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Well Cody.
Its a good way to refine your decision making process which seems to be one of your challenges. Nothing like being bound by law to continue a job you hate for 3 years to really teach you to think about what you do....An you will have very few decisions to make once you sign.
Myself..I did three contracts in the Canadian Infantry. Once I had my fill I went to school(on my own nickle, Canada has no GI bill program or anything like it) and became a software consultant. For me the army was a huge waste of money. But a valuable investment in myself.
The people you should be talking to are your parents. They know you better then anyone here. Here you will get polarized discussion from people with positive or negative opinions. I think the only one that matters(I liked fdskis take on joining for education though) is that like any other job. It is what you make of it.
Make sure you challenge yourself. If the biggest fear you have is making it through boot camp as some kind of airforce or navy wog then your after the wrong job. Any boot camp is just shut up school..Dont waste 3 years on a job thats easy.
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I was on nuclear submarine fer 6 years.
Wotan, so was I. What boat?
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Originally posted by BigCrate
To see if I can get a job throwing bags at DFW airport.
It gets my foot in the door with a big company.
Cw
A note of caution here. In the old days, all the folks working in and around the airplanes usually were employees of the parent company.
That is to say, the guys loading bags were Delta or American or United (etc) employees that enjoyed the benefits (wages, medical, vacation, etc) of working for a large, profitable corporation.
Now it is quite different. The Harvard whiz kids have decided that company loyalty is meaningless and that most employees are easily replaced.
Thus, you have subsidiary companies that provide what amounts to part-time entry level employees to the "parent" companies. These employees are paid minimum wage and receive only the very minimum of benefits the government may require. In other words, no medical, etc.
So, if you go to join a company cleaning airplanes or tossing bags, odds are you WON'T actually be working for that airline.
Just something to ASK FIRST at the interview if you are really serious about airline work. (Southwest may still hire directly into the parent.. I'm not sure.)
In any event, find out who your employer actually is and what benefits that will entitle you to receive. (For example, if you go to Delta, you'll probably wind up working for Delta Staffing Services, a low/no benefit company from which you will NOT work your way up in the ranks of Delta Air Lines... because it is NOT the same company at all.)
Good luck.
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Mighyt1, I was at the Shady J for 8 years myself. I was an ammo troop in those days. Been some changes here, I am still active duty but now I do more data and manpower analyzation than keeping F15E's loaded.
Bigcrate, I can answer some questions for you if you wish, email at jwells9@satx.rr.com. There are some do's and don't to joining any service, be advised. You can help yourself in this process.
Here is the regulation that explains in detail every enlisted "AFSC"or Air Force Specialty Code. It ius a very big reg, but it outlines the duties of each job. BTW, are you fluent in another language?
http://afpubs.hq.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afman36-2108/afman36-2108.pdf
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My advice is to get as much information as you can from as many sources as you can. Get the pro-military stuff, get the anti-military stuff, and balance them. Make sure it's right for you. Few things to consider -
First, remember that there is a definite possibility that you will be involved in combat operations in the future if you join. I understand you are joining in part for educational benefits? Make sure you are comfortable with the fact that you may actually be involved in combat. There are lots of people that sign up with no intention or thought of ever being involved. Silly them, IMO.
Second, WRT to educational benefits, be careful. Most recruits do not get most of the GI benefits that they are "promised" by the military. They'll tell you the maximum you can get, and act as if it's common for people to get these maximum benefits. If you're only after educational benefits or apprenticeship stuff, there are far better places to find it.
Third, related to number two, NEVER trust a recruiter. Treat them as you would a used car salesman.
Fourth, remember that military is interested in you as part of a machine whose intention is to fight wars, and could care less about you as a person. They'll feed you, give you a place to sleep, and try to keep you from getting killed, but they're going to do as little for you as they possibly can. Help yourself, and listen to the guys with experience to get the good jobs or get what you need.
To say anymore would start delving into politics, and I certainly can't give practical advice about what to do in the military itself. Good luck with whatever decision you make, and remember that it's a huge one. You want to be as sure about this as anything you have ever been in your life. It'll definitely affect your life in the future.
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USS Jacksonville 699 out of Norfolk. We were in the ship yards arfter shock trials in portsmouth when I got there in '88(? if I remeber correct). I rode OK city to finish my qual. And did various runs on other boats while we got refit. I was a Sonar tech.
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"How many people did you have sleeping around you who have never been exposed to any mechanism beyong a donkey, barely understand the language and who's fathers bought them wifes while they served in the army?
miko"
lol
hes not in any danger of joinging the russian army any day soon
I think lnyz and a few other of our russian apologist friends should do a tour or two though for the motherland..
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Ispar.... wtf are you talking about. I got all my GI benifits and also a "kicker" that added up to a good sum at that time. You'll get your benifits. Just make sure you actualy sign up for them.
xBAT
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Originally posted by ispar
Second, WRT to educational benefits, be careful. Most recruits do not get most of the GI benefits that they are "promised" by the military. They'll tell you the maximum you can get, and act as if it's common for people to get these maximum benefits. If you're only after educational benefits or apprenticeship stuff, there are far better places to find it.
Fourth, remember that military is interested in you as part of a machine whose intention is to fight wars, and could care less about you as a person. They'll feed you, give you a place to sleep, and try to keep you from getting killed, but they're going to do as little for you as they possibly can. Help yourself, and listen to the guys with experience to get the good jobs or get what you need.
Thats not true ISPAR. If you want the GI Bill, you get the GI Bill. In addition you get tuition assitance which is just a benefit for everyone in the military. With the GI Bill, you must opt and sign up for it in Basic training. You can't wait till later. You pay in $100 a month for 12 months, and can draw on it any time. You have to use torward school tuition, and you are granted $22,500 total. Tuition assistance cna be drawn at any time torward classes, It is 75% or %80 (can't remember) of books and tuition fees payed for by the armed forces.
What you say about an individual issome sort of machine to be used and abused is not correct. The Air force provides alot of incentives and benefits that help the member along. All kinds of counseling, a fair repoirting system. An Inspector General that has an open door policy if you think you are being treated unfairly. Great health care for you and your dependants. An assignment system that benmds over backwards to give the member his/her assignment of preference. However its true that the mission is first.
Good advise on learning all you can and talking with those that know.
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I think Ispar just wants to make sure that Cody signs up for things like the Army (or Navy or Airfarce) college fund AND the GI bill. I didn't get the College fund, which turned out to be a mistake on my part.
-Sikboy
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Choosing which branch of service really boils down to what do you want to get out of the service . The USAF is comfortable cushy and they treat you like a civilian . The Marines still has a real basic training (unlike the new army) and it's something you can be proud of and they do have a sense of fraternity that the other branches lack, but they have no special forces and they are the usn's stepchild . The army's basic training is gender intergrated now so they have to treat everyone like women . But if you are looking for adventure and huah jobs, painting yourself green and jumping out of planes with weapons you're not allowed to talk about etc., then the army is the service to join . I can't think of any reason to join the navy as enlisted unless your goal is to be a seal . I just can't imagine having a bunk for a home everyday after work . As for college money they are all the same depending on MOS . I recomend talking to recruiters from each branch, and keep in mind that they are salesmen .
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Thats not true ISPAR. If you want the GI Bill, you get the GI Bill. In addition you get tuition assitance which is just a benefit for everyone in the military. With the GI Bill, you must opt and sign up for it in Basic training. You can't wait till later. You pay in $100 a month for 12 months, and can draw on it any time. You have to use torward school tuition, and you are granted $22,500 total. Tuition assistance cna be drawn at any time torward classes, It is 75% or %80 (can't remember) of books and tuition fees payed for by the armed forces.
What you say about an individual issome sort of machine to be used and abused is not correct. The Air force provides alot of incentives and benefits that help the member along. All kinds of counseling, a fair repoirting system. An Inspector General that has an open door policy if you think you are being treated unfairly. Great health care for you and your dependants. An assignment system that benmds over backwards to give the member his/her assignment of preference. However its true that the mission is first.
Good advise on learning all you can and talking with those that know.
Sikboy has it right... most people don't get signed up for both, because nobody tells them that they can. That's why you talk to the guys that know. Also, as I understand it, you have to give the fund $2000 out of your own pocket first, correct? I don't exactly remember.
Sorry about the fourth item, there was a bit too much of my political stance coming out there. I should have left it with the statement that the mission and goals are going to come before you and what you want, and to remember that you have to find out what you can do within the system to get what you want. Sitting around and hoping someone notices you isn't going to do much good, eh? So once again, talk to the vets.
And it's good to see that you aren't making such a huge decision on a knee jerk :). I sure there are a lot of folks who signed up right after 9/11 who are regretting that decision now.
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Originally posted by Samm
Choosing which branch of service really boils down to what do you want to get out of the service . The USAF is comfortable cushy and they treat you like a civilian .
LO, If you end up with any AFSC with 2 in the prefix (ie..2W051) I can assure you will have some tent time in a middle eastern country and chewing on some MRE's. Hardly being treated like a civilian. However there are certain jobs that will not neccesarily get your treted like a civilian..but you will work right next to them. You still wear the green or blue uniform, and are subject to the same regs as the combat oriented jobs.
The AF is completely different from the army, navy/marines. Whole differrent type of fruit.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
The AF is completely different from the army, navy/marines. Whole differrent type of fruit.
Fruit being the operative word here:p
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Samm
... I can't think of any reason to join the navy as enlisted unless your goal is to be a seal . I just can't imagine having a bunk for a home everyday after work.
The sea time is hard to do. Packing up and leaving your family for six months (minimum) sucks out loud. I did it three times before I got out.
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Originally posted by Samm
I can't think of any reason to join the navy as enlisted unless your goal is to be a seal . I just can't imagine having a bunk for a home everyday after work .
Interesting, I spent 4 1/2 year in the Navy on submarines, and never went home to a bunk after work. I always went home to my house. Maybe there is some weird Navy that makes you do this, not the US Navy nowadays. Hell, enlisted guys in the Navy get maid service in their "barracks" which resemble college dorm rooms.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
I think Ispar just wants to make sure that Cody signs up for things like the Army (or Navy or Airfarce) college fund AND the GI bill. I didn't get the College fund, which turned out to be a mistake on my part.
Cody, take the bonuses since your from TX. The college fund will take money out of your pocket. The college funds kick in after the GI Bill, but TX passed the Hazelwood act that pays for your college after you use up your GI Bill. Take the cash!
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Originally posted by Wotan
USS Jacksonville 699 out of Norfolk. We were in the ship yards arfter shock trials in portsmouth when I got there in '88(? if I remeber correct). I rode OK city to finish my qual. And did various runs on other boats while we got refit. I was a Sonar tech.
USS Norfolk 714, out of Norfolk 1996-2001 :) I was an ELT
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You swam home everyday ? Looks like sandman was in that wierd navy, as was my dad for 20 years . But I'm sure a lot depends on your MOS .
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Nope, walked off the boat, onto the pier, walked to my truck, and drove to my house. Contrary to what some other services would want you to think. All Navy boats are not at sea 24/7. At sea, it is not as boring as you might think. We have flat panel widescreen TVs, DVDs, you name it, for entertainment. I personally would rather enjoy these luxery items than being in a tent in some remote part of the world.
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Personally, I think the AF is a much better choice than the navy. The maintenace folks that support the fighters do about 45 days on average a year deployed in support of whatever thing has been going on since DS. The navy guys spend a whole lote more time than that at sea....conflict or not. They say the food is good though onboard those ships, they have nice things too, but you aint going to drive to the outback for a steak whenever you feel like it:)
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I guess it all depends on what you want. I choose Navy for it tech programs, and advancement. Made E-6 in 5 years and applied 155 credit hours (from Navy schools) to get my BS and I am now 1 semester away from a Masters. Only been in 7 years. Heard horror stories of non-advancement in AF from friends that joined. But that too would depend on your MOS.
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how does the navy promote sapo?
it is true it seems if you made E6 in only 5 years!! your promotions based on board and record reviews? The AF uses the WAPS (weighted airman promotion system). Witrh this syustem, you dont even test for E5 till your 4 year mark, if you make it (based on 2 test, how you score against others in your AFSC) then you must wait 18 months after sew on till you can test the next cycle for E6. It is extremely competitive, but your promotion is strictly in your hands. You hold the key, not some O-4, or E-7. I like the AF's way of promotion.
The AF has some very exclusive technical programs as well. We use cutting edge technology integrated into the same wepons systems that the navy use, only we use them first, and provide the sweat and research. I am refering to weapons platforms, and intel gathering technology.
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Navy uses a test. Test are giving in March and September. The promotion depends on your scores and job performance. A weighted average of each. They decide how many E-6 they need for the coming 6 months, like they'll need 100 new E-6 for your MOS. Then the top 100 from the scores and performance get E-6. But with some MOS in the Navy you can test for E-5 at your 9 month point. (I took it at 12 months, but didn't make it the first time, not enough time to learn the job well). Then you must wait 2-3 years to test for E-6. My good friend made E-6 at his 4 year mark.
I know nothing of weapons that the navy uses, I was a nuclear engineer. To be more specific, a nuclear chemist.
The navy promotes E-7 and up on "board and records review", but they must first score well on the test. I'm not fond of this method, but I won't be eligible for E-7 till 3 months before I get out.
What weapons does the AF test and research for the Navy? I was on subs, so I know little beyond torpedos and Tomahawk missles.
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Same here with the exception of watch every 4 days while in port I was at my house everyday by 5 o'clock.
Submarines are a bit different then surface pukes though.
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All Air to ground precision stuff like GBU-10, gbu-12, GBU-28, etc.. all the laser guided stuff was tested by rockwell, boeing, now rockbowell:) and the air force. the famed AIM-9 was originally an Air force juncture that turned out good for all the services. Basically, if its carried by a fighter bomber, or an Air supiriority fighter, it was built to AF standards for the AF, and the navy bought it. There is a few exceptions, for example the AGM-154 pheonix, is purley a navy missile. The FA-18 was originally a platform that Macdonnel Douglas used to compete against Gen Dynamics F-16 for the AF's bid for a new fighter. The AF went with the falcon, but the NAvy saw promise in the FA-18.
BTW, thats a fancy name for your MOS, a term like chemist in the AF means a commision, or GS-11 or above.
We promote the same way it seems. We test and our duty performance and job knowledge (plus time in grade, time in service, decorations) play a role in our promotions. It is possible to sew on E6 before 6 years in the AF, but you must make it the first time for both E5, and E6.
I have a friend that was an E5 in 1990, he is now an E9. He has done well.
I always wondered this, how come they wont let you guys wear the nice uniform till your an E-7?
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whats wrong with crackerjacks ammo?? :p
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Originally posted by SAPO
I guess it all depends on what you want.
I think SAPO hits the nail on the head here, Bigcrate if you're are struggling now and all you have is a HS education then joining the military, whatever branch, is about the best thing that you could do for yourself, aside from wining the lottery . The service was one of the best things that happened to me . Did four years as a combat medic playing soldier and having a good time, I liked it, many don't . Reenlisted when I was offered nursing school, spent the next 2 years working (yuck), in an army hospital, hated that, was like having a job, and I got out as fast as I could . Now I make more than a lot of officers . Much better than if I'd stayed home with a factory job or something at anyrate .
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Originally posted by -ammo-
BTW, thats a fancy name for your MOS, a term like chemist in the AF means a commision, or GS-11 or above.
MOS is actually called Engineering Labarotory (ELT). Best described as Nuclear Chemist, and Radiological Controls. Mass. Inst of Tech (MIT) wrote the Navy cirriculum for Nuclear Engineering. But most of us nukes, do get our BS if not more in our first enlistment. The Navy pays big bucks to try and keep us. Your first re-enlistment bonus is $60,000, just so they can keep you for two and a half more years. And if your not an E-5 yet, they give it to you the instant you re-up.
I always wondered this, how come they wont let you guys wear the nice uniform till your an E-7?
I guess your talking about the kahkis. I personally like the black uniforms that we call the Johnny Cashes. But when you are asssign to a sub or boat, we all wear the same uniform, except for the belt. E-6 and below wear black belt, while E-7 and above wear tan ones.
WOTAN, hell duty rotation is up to 6 or more now. I was at 9 section (EDPO) when I left. NUB were at 5 or 6. Lots different than when I first got there.