Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: moose on February 17, 2002, 12:22:49 PM
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What the hell are they thinking?
I guess Wild Bill does have something up his sleeve because to the casual observer that is suicide.
I know AH was $30 a month, but look at it this way:
Since the AH price drop the arenas have doubled in numbers.
So, I'm going to assume that in comparison, they will lose 1/2 their numbers in the WBIII arena
giving them likke 20-30 people on a good night. :(
Good times for htc, bad for wb.
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You're not completely correct:
Silver: $9.95 is charged to your account each month and you can fly an unlimited number of hours in the WarBirds III arenas, and the ACA (demo arena). $9.95 is applied to your account as a credit toward the hourly charged play of WarBirds 2.xx, which is $1.99 per hour.
Unlimited: $24.95 is charged to your account each month and you can fly an unlimited number of hours in any of the WarBirds arenas for that fee.
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No, he's right sandman. This is a move announced a week ago by iEN ... new pricing plan, $24.95 month for all you can eat in any WB arena, $9.95 a month for 5 hours in any arena, then $1.99 an hour after that.
So in effect, the $9.95 all you can eat WB3 is going away. To be fair, after a massive upheavel, they claim to be "re-thinking" that price point.
As to HTC, one thing to keep in mind. They may have double their players, but they halved their income. So in the end, they are bringing in about the same amount of $, but having to support twice as many players. So in effect, my guess is their net revenue actually dropped.
Not suggesting anything either way, but no one really knows if the move has helped or hurt HTC, since they are a private corp. Given their lower overhead, I'd guess they are still fine. The initial high price probably helped offset the startup costs, and now they've hit their groove.
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i would think that hitech finds joy in having more players, even at less of a profit
the fact that ien is clipping warbirds wings is sad because i see a massive exodus from that sim if they raise the price. either to wwiiol or to here. the mac users will be s.o.l.
this is bad because competition is good and the less there is the less we get as a consumer.
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Originally posted by Spitboy
No, he's right sandman. This is a move announced a week ago by iEN ... new pricing plan, $24.95 month for all you can eat in any WB arena, $9.95 a month for 5 hours in any arena, then $1.99 an hour after that.
I got the above quote directly from the IEN web site (http://www.iencentral.com/warbirds/academy_create.html). Is it wrong?
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It will be March 4.
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Of course, those of us who payed anywhere from $5 an hour for AW and $2 an hour for WB's in 'the old days'...well, $30 a month is still a bargain!
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The problem is the changing norm of online pricing.
$1.99 per hour was the norm (for WB) a few years back. AH came along with a flat monthly, and WB responded with one of their own. (Yes, AW and FA had been flat rate for some time, but they did not really bear such a close resemblance to WB as did AH).
WB attempted to outdo AH by coming in at a lower price break- it was a gamble that didn't pay off. As a result, you have numerous people in WB that never paid and never will pay $1.99 per hour, have never paid more than the amount they are paying and have no intention of doing so. Maybe the grognards will stay, maybe even many of them won't. One thing is for sure, it won't bring more people in.
This is a short-term solution for one purpose or another. Maybe it is to show investors some short-lived glimmer of profitability. Maybe it is a purge (hardly likely). Maybe it is Wild Bill setting the product up for another change of hands (far more likely). Any way you slice it, even the staunchest of WB diehards can't view this as a good direction.
And before Cabby comes in here and accuses me of dancing on the grave of iEN, I'm not. I don't have any reason to want to see it fail (heck, if they'd upgrade DoA I'd be playing there now!). Facts is facts, however.
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WWIIOL is shutting down the public forum aspect of their BBS. Seems Hatch and company think things are too nasty now. Well, they're right- too bad it took them six months to figure that one out. They say it is "the trend of MMOL gaming to move BBS's to affiliates". Maybe, but I always felt the foxes were in charge of the henhouse over there.
Sorry for the piracy here, just made me think of another odd business decision.
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I've always loved DoA (3D) and would really be interested IF it had an AH view system. With WWII aircraft having an already restrictive view makjing it worse with the head-on-a-stationary-pivot only makes it worse.
As for WB's going $25 unlimted or $10base + $2hr it's a case of WildDill doing something for stock purposes and whatever the ends to that are he has in mind. Or he's got some delusion to making WB's into the pricier, "premier" sim as it once was.
I lean more to some business move ending in $$$ to *his* pocket somehow.
Westy
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I think you're dead on with the WW2OL forum move, Kieran. Stoopid decision that underscores a "blame the players for our own failure" mentality. And I really don't see a "trend" toward outsourcing forums. What happens is, companies screw the pooch, and players pick up the slack. But that doesn't excuse a company from the duty to provide a common forum for players. As an MMP game, that's simply something you have to do.
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Well, concerning the area of doubling the numbers but making the same profit. Not quite true. I have no idea what the financial situation is at either WB or AH, but I do know a bit about the service side,..in particular, the Internet service side.
One of the more expensive parts of running a product/service such as these is the Internet connection. You can effectively raise your net profits by getting larger and larger numbers online. Why?
It is about economies of scale. For instance, the per 64Kb channel cost of an OC3 (about 140Mb/sec) is less than half the cost of a T1.
So as you increase your numbers online, you decrease the overall costs per player for the Internet bandwidth. This leads to higher profitibility at lower subscription costs.
To get there, however, you have to assume you can fill an OC3 and charge accordingly. Failing to fill that pipe could put you out of business.
It really gets to be about numbers. Again, I do not know a thing about WB, but if the numbers in thier arenas are less than 275, then the $24.95 price point is really the bottom price they can charge. Now, granted, this assumes a lot of things. There is usually an online to subscription ratio which should be fairly consistent. I do not know what that number would be, but I would/have assumed HTC's ratio would be close to the same as WB's ratio.
Anyway, I digress. The point being; It is possible to increase your net through lower subscriptions without having to double your base to make up for the reduction (in the case where the subscription is cut in half).
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Thanks Skuzzy for the info
Just makes me feel more comfy :)
Now, I wonder where WWIIOL will go from here. Is it much better now with all the patches? They might be a contender if they've got everything figured out.
I don't think there is room in the MMOL flightsim crowd for 3 sims. 2 perhaps, but there seems to be an odd man out when there's 3.
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It was better in some ways on my last trip. I really considered heavily trying a subscription for at least a month, then I found the same joystick drop situation (if I play Allied I lose joystick after every sortie) I had before and I became busier than ever at work. As it is, I haven't logged onto AH more than once this last month, and only for a few minutes. I couldn't see subscribing to two sims I couldn't play.
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I love WW20L. I played it first time on Friday.
No idea what to do after getting in the plane. Just sitting in the hanger quiet. Asked on the radio for help. A guy from a big squad started to give me pointers. An hour later I had my first air to air kill. Fast forward to Monday. I have close to 30 kills and have made Sgt. I would be higher but I was not taking missions and not landing the ones I took at first.
After 25 hours of play or so I have had one dropped connection. The frame rate is seldom below 40 and I feel the software is rock solid. I have a AMD 1900 with an Nvidia Geforce 3 Ti 200 64 meg vid card and 512 meg of memory. I am a serious enough gamer to udate my system every time I feel the need. Better to spend 500 bucks on a new processor and 100 on a card than to gripe about low frame rate.
WW2OL rocks. I followed it as it was being developed but refused to pay to play when the "beta" fiasco happened. I am glad I waited. I am stepping into a great game with established squads and having a blast.
I am even getting used to the lack of padlock. Nothing like shooting down a hot Spitfire pilot one on one when 3 days ago I could not even figure out how to start the engine in my Emil.
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I still can't justify spending $500 to upgrade my PIII800 with GF2GTS to play a MMOLG with toejamtier graphics then most new games coming out. I know IL-2 doesn't support thousands of people but how did they get it to look nicer and run better?
Until the folks over at CRS change their attitude from the 'you need to upgrade to play our game', I have no desire to try it. Optimize that squeak.
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I own my own business so I just put it through there. The office gets the old system. To me the upgradeing is not that expensive but I feel for kids on a budget.
I know it sucks not to be able to get into the game and I was a beta tester for IL-2 and I agree with you that game rocks.
The reason I love WW2OL is that some guys will call for an air strike and I will come in in my Stuka and take out a Char and they all say wtg as I fly away. That is a way better feeling than shooting down some GE AI planes in IL-2. It is not the look or the game engine that is so amazing but the real interaction. Expecially when a top squad sees what you are doing and recruits you.
Air to air interaction is not the same as ground to air and feeling that you support is making a difference.
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WB had this free two week trial thing about a month or two back. So i said, what the heck, it cant be that bad? As i logged on to the WB Main Arena on a Saturday night, only 50 people were on, keep in mind this was duing free trail week, so probally 20 of em were on free trail. It wasnt that good of a game anyway, terrain textures make we wish i was blind.
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In Summary:
1) Best Plan-The Platinum Plan: $24.95 unlimited play in all
current arenas! Best for all WarBirders!
2) NEW Gold Plan- $19.95 per month for 15 Free hours. $1.99 per
hour after 15 hours of play in any charged arenas. Unlimited
access
to ACA arenas.
3) Silver Plan- $9.95 per month for 5 Free hours. $1.99 per per
hour after 5 hours of play in any charged arenas. Unlimited
access
to ACA arenas.
Most of our players will see little or no effect nor will they have
to make any changes to their accounts. This is an effort to provide
a lower cost, fly a medium amount, $19.95 Plan for some of our mid
level, regular players and to provide a low cost, no hourly charge
easy arena for bringing in new players (the new Air Combat Arena
with a bomber and field capture)
I recieved this from ien confirming 25 for unlimited and a new "gold plan :rolleyes:
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They may have double their players, but they halved their income. So in the end, they are bringing in about the same amount of $, but having to support twice as many players.
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Like skuzzy said. Also, double the numbers? Try triple!
Its not a good thing in the short term from my perspective.
Way overcrowded. Almost to the point of absurdity but there is the CT where things are much more intruiging.
Y
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$9.95 per month for 5 Free hours.
I always loved this statement (even when ICI was making it). $10 for 5 free hours. LOL!
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
I always loved this statement (even when ICI was making it). $10 for 5 free hours. LOL!
AKDejaVu
What part of FREE don't you understand. ;)
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but DJ... the 10$ goes to keeping your account open!!!!!......
errr.....
Anyway, in today's day in age the pricing structure for WBIII is a .
-SW
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Originally posted by Habu
I own my own business so I just put it through there.
Great idea....buy me an upgrade and put it thru your business also. Thanks. ;)
I also did the WB 2 week free trial a while back. Have to say I wasnt too impressed. I flew around forever looking for someone to fight. That damn arrow thing I assumed was pointing toward the nearest enemy, but everytime i would fly a long way in one direction the arrow would just change on me. I guess I could have asked questions, but I didnt. I was pressed for time that day anyway. That night, however I got wrapped up in some bizarre email snafu. I had over 200 messages from IEN. Somebody over there screwed the pooch and I was getting all kind of BS in my inbox. Made me sorry I ever signed up for their service.
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saw this today lol
The following was just emailed to every Warbirds and DOA account holder for which we have a valid email address. It will soon appear on the Web page as well:
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Dear Warbirds Player,
This email is to announce our future plans for the Warbirds community and explain upcoming changes to pricing that will affect Warbirds customers. While formulating these changes we have considered our current and future player base, your suggestions and comments and the overall goal of being able to provide the most detailed, realistic and fun online multiplayer flight simulation on the market today.
We are pleased to announce, to those previously unaware, that iEN's former CEO J.W. "WildBill" Stealey is back in the CEO position. His commitment and enthusiasm for Warbirds is unparalleled and that means great things for Warbirds and the community! To begin with, each week on Thursday afternoons expect to see your favorite Warbirds development team members flying in the virtual skies; here's your chance to shoot down WLDBIL, ICEMAN, DEVINE and the rest of the iEN crew. WLDBIL will soon be accepting sign-ups for "Kill-Bill" where you can fight him one-on-one for a FREE month of Warbirds! (Limited to the first 5 each month. Then you can't do it again for 12 months or until WildBill cries "Uncle.") We are also planning special events to begin in March that include prize and t-shirt giveaways, the return of KIL-ME and more. Also on March 4th, the setup of the current Air Combat Arenas (ACA) in Warbirds 2.77r3 and WarbirdsIII will be expanded to include 1 bomber and field captures.
On March 4th, 2002, WarbirdsIII will be released into "paid production". The March 4th release of WarbirdsIII will include the new KAGA aircraft carrier with player manable guns, new planes, MAC OSX support and a host of other advancements. Since the March 2001 Open Beta release of WarbirdsIII there have been over 300 fixes and improvements, many of which are detailed in the changes.txt file in the WarbirdsIII folder. The entire Warbirds team is committed to producing the best simulation possible and many more additions and improvements are already underway including the Tunisia terrain, completing the plane set, improving strategic gameplay, texture improvements and more.
Members of the newly enacted Player Development Corp. have already added new special effects and new aircraft skins suitable for online play and are poised to provide even more exciting player created content for our favorite sim. In addition, our CM's who host player run events have new tools to enhance realism and gameplay. We now have CL's (players with "*" in their handles) to assist pilots online and as always our elite Trainers (players with "=" in their handles) are available to provide expert flight instruction and guidance.
Very soon we will provide you with details of how to participate in our new "Tell a Friend" recruiting program. If a current player gets a new player to sign up for a Warbirds paying account, iEN will credit the current player's account based on which type of account the new player creates. For example, if the new player signs up for an unlimited $24.95 account, iEN will credit the referring player's account with $24.95. We are excited about giving our current customers the recognition they deserve for sharing the Warbirds experience with others.
On March 4th, when WarbirdsIII is released into "paid production", the pricing structure will change as follows. Please note that no plans will be changed automatically and billing of the new rates will not affect current subscribers until their first billing date after March 4th:
A new $19.95USD plan will be introduced. Subscribers who choose the $19.95 plan will have 15 hours of "free" access to all arenas in Warbirds 2.77r3 , WarbirdsIII and unlimited access to all arenas in Dawn of Aces and other ACA- type arenas that will be up soon. The 15 hours are calculated by cumulative time spent in ANY Warbirds "pay per hour" or "charged" arena (all arenas except for the ACA and Training in Warbirds 2.77r3 and the ACA and Training in WarbirdsIII). A popup will remind $19.95 players if they are about to enter a "pay" arena. After the 15 "free" hours, players will be charged $1.99 for any additional time spent in any "pay" arena.
Current subscribers on the $24.95USD plan (unlimited) will see no change in their billing or subscription rate. You will be able to access and play an unlimited amount of time in any arena in Warbirds 2.77r3, WarbirdsIII and Dawn of Aces.
Current subscribers on the $9.95USD plan will have unlimited access to the Air Combat Arenas (ACA) in Warbirds 2.77r3 and WarbirdsIII and unlimited access to all arenas in Dawn of Aces and other ACA-type arenas that will be up soon. This plan also provides 5 hours of "free" access to all "pay" arenas in Warbirds 2.77r3 and WarbirdsIII ( all arenas except for the ACA and Training in Warbirds 2.77r3 and the ACA and Training in WarbirdsIII ). The 5 hours are calculated by cumalitive time spent in ANY Warbirds "pay per hour" arena as described above. A popup will remind $9.95 players if they are about to enter a "pay" arena. After the 5 "free" hours, players will be charged $1.99 for any additional time spent in any "pay" arena.
In Summary:
1) Best Plan-The Platinum Plan: $24.95 unlimited play in all current arenas! Best for all WarBirders!
2) NEW Gold Plan- $19.95 per month for 15 Free hours. $1.99 per hour after 15 hours of play in any charged arenas. Unlimited access to ACA arenas.
3) Silver Plan- $9.95 per month for 5 Free hours. $1.99 per per hour after 5 hours of play in any charged arenas. Unlimited access to ACA arenas.
Most of our players will see little or no effect nor will they have to make any changes to their accounts. This is an effort to provide a lower cost, fly a medium amount, $19.95 Plan for some of our mid level, regular players and to provide a low cost, no hourly charge easy arena for bringing in new players (the new Air Combat Arena with a bomber and field capture)
Warbirds undoubtedly has the finest community of any massively multiplayer online game. With your continued support and valued input Warbirds will continue to soar high above the competition.
WarBirds III: Best Simulation of 2001 - Mac Game Database
WarBirds III: Best Online Simulation for 2001 - Simulation News
WarBirds III: 5 out of 5 stars September 2001 - PC Pilot Magazine
"Online Fight Sim of the Year" 1999 and 2000 - Dogfighter.com
"Best Online Flight Sim" 2000 Runner Up - SimHQ.com
"Excellent Online Multiplayer Combat Simulation" 1999 - FlightSim.com
WarBirds "Online Game of the Year" 1997, 98, 99 - PC Games Magazine
"Online Game of the Year" 1997 - Computer Games/Strategy
================================================================================
To change your plan on March 4th, or if you wish to cancel your subscription prior to that date, please follow the directions on the web page at http://www.ient.com/warbirds/support.html Please remember that iEN will *NOT* automatically change any player selected plans and that any changes will not be made until your next scheduled billing date. If you wish to cancel you need to specify *WHEN* you want the account canceled (immediately, 2 weeks, on next billing date, etc). As soon as the new plan is available (but no later than March 4th) we will notify you.
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Iceman iEN
Community Events Manager
[This message has been edited by Iceman iEN (edited February 20, 2002).]
IP: Log
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thats where my last post was quoted from.....