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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MANDOBLE on February 19, 2002, 02:29:23 AM

Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 19, 2002, 02:29:23 AM
There are some manners non related to offensive expressions that are not moderated by anything in AH:

1 - Flying N1K2, La7, Spits or Yak is insulting by default.
2 - To HO when u see the other trying to evade and to RAM the enemy when you can't find out any other way to kill the adversary is tasteless.
3 - To spray&pray at 800 yards is most disturbing.
4 - Using lo level  buffs with the only intention of killing any aproaching fighters is pathetic.
5 - Taking off just to keep into friendly ack range is absurd.

AH has no mechanism to educate the players so any pilot found guilty of any of the avobe sins that once downed is lucky enough to bail out will be punished by a fierze straffe to the death in the air or in the ground.

Cmon, join the dweeb hunt  :D
Title: Hei
Post by: Xjazz on February 19, 2002, 03:30:10 AM
During this tour I have 49 Kills In and 15 Died In with Spit 9....

Oh my god! Im a Dweep and Dweep hunting season just start...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on February 19, 2002, 03:52:37 AM
He he Xjazz, the  hunting of Spit dweeb start long time ago:) ...and check the k/d of Mandoble against the spit's, you can have a big Dora problem if him find you.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: JV44 on February 19, 2002, 03:52:51 AM
I pay for it so I play the game like I want it to play :D

Andreas
Title: Flying manners
Post by: mipoikel on February 19, 2002, 03:55:56 AM
I have just started to fly Dora after Spit. Now I have 18 kills in it and 8 deaths. Am I dweeb or not?:D

If you want I can step back to spit! (104 kills and 29 deaths)

Yes I am superdweeb! Kill me! Hunt me! LOL


ah... we are so lucky! Mandoble and XJazz and me are in same side!!
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 19, 2002, 04:08:55 AM
hehe the idea is not just to kill the dweeb ride but the dweeb pilot, even if his plane has been destroyed by another one. If the dweeb bails out, better to open chute at 5 feet ;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: mipoikel on February 19, 2002, 04:11:30 AM
Our squadron rules says that dont shoot chutes! It is totally forbidden. Hmmm... should I make some changes... :rolleyes:
Title: Flying manners
Post by: bikekil on February 19, 2002, 04:12:04 AM
yeah...
real man planes: bf109 fw190, 205, 202
right... heard that before :)
yeah i know. all allied squadrons are bunch of loosers, poor skilled dweebs... headr that too :)

all of you "real pilots"!

let me fly my Yak9U now
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 19, 2002, 04:33:04 AM
Ok I fly a dweeb plane (Yak9u) but why to you still fly a target plane (190) ;)  ?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 19, 2002, 05:02:56 AM
!!!! .... mmmmm .... ??? @#&$%! No idea ... :confused:
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 19, 2002, 06:13:52 AM
Dweeb and proud of it... Yak-9U :D  But flying Typhoons, P-51Bs, Tempests and Me-262s almost same amount of time... ;)  Of course also 190s and 109s but I really suck bad in those so I better stick to the metal I can handle at least a bit :)

Quote

2 - To HO when u see the other trying to evade and to RAM the enemy when you can't find out any other way to kill the adversary is tasteless.


Hmm I would say that to kill anyone in HO when hes checking his 6 during that time is unfair :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: aztec on February 19, 2002, 07:00:21 AM
Yak9U dweeb here and one of the main reasons I started flying it was because nobody whined about it. Oh, well sooner or later no matter what ya fly some crybaby is gonna squeal.:D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKDejaVu on February 19, 2002, 07:43:59 AM
Quote
1 - Flying N1K2, La7, Spits or Yak is insulting by default.
2 - To HO when u see the other trying to evade and to RAM the enemy when you can't find out any other way to kill the adversary is tasteless.
3 - To spray&pray at 800 yards is most disturbing.
4 - Using lo level buffs with the only intention of killing any aproaching fighters is pathetic.
5 - Taking off just to keep into friendly ack range is absurd.
[list=1]
  • To luftwabbles... who are very insulting by default
  • To try to avoid the HO giving me a good shot is acceptable
  • Especially if you have .50 calls and I am trying to run from you after just flying straight through a furball taking pot shots
  • Yet I find it impossible to ignore said pathetic behavior and must engage at any cost
  • Of course, this is only a problem when I am hovering over your base without any intentions of destroying ack.
:rolleyes:
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Gremlin on February 19, 2002, 07:54:29 AM
Self confessed dweeb here, (flys all the dweeb planes as well as the 'non dweeb' ones but trys not to HO, ram, and certainly doesnt take up a buff with the sole intention of gunning down fiters)

Whats worse than the dweeb tactics Mandoble mentions is the luftwhiners who climb to 30k in a luftwobbler make one attempt to HO you and then immediately dive for the deck cause they haven't the skill to reverse properly and even if they did they wouldnt know where to begin with ACM.  Im not talking about the good guys (like mandoble) who at least carry through the attack and only run when things go pear shaped.  Running is good.  Only a dweeb stays to fight a battle he cant win.

The other thing wich sucks is the guy who chases you for 20miles just because he knows you gotta problem (missing wingtip, smokin engine etc)  if you had both wings and a chance to fight back they'd run for miles to get away)

Gangbangin, your haveing a nice 1v1 with some1 and you see 5 spits comin in fast.  They killshooter themselves to get to ya, but inevitibly you buy it in the blizzard of 50 cals. You know what they say, 'Give enough monkeys' guns.  So next time ya see a pony being engaged by 2 friendlies leave em alone, they don't need your help, find your own fight.  All your doing is showing yourself up as a skilless dweeb who needs to hang onto other peoples coattails.

Last but by no means least, the spit who follows you around for 30 minutes waiting for you to attack someone so he can sneak up behind ya and get his cheap kill.  When this happens i always rev and at least try nail the dweeb.  THis is one time I have no problem with HO.  AT least if you gotta go down your gonna take this dweeb with ya and of course its much nicer when it works out and you emerge without a scratch.  



__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
Title: to do or not to do
Post by: SLO on February 19, 2002, 09:22:38 AM
to do it or not to do it is the question.......

1- HO'in .... scene 1....flyin 12k(pony), 3 bishops appear 1k lower, 2 la7's and 1 niki(oh great, a dweeb party),  BOTH la7 come up and try HO:mad: ....go figure that 1 out....due to the unrealistc speed of said aircraft(la7), can't run away and can't fight 2 ho'ers..what ya do.

scene 2- i'm fightin a lonely spit to spit....in my turn radius i spot 2 incoming...oh no! said thee....out of turn radius when 1st approaches....all hell breaks loose cause i pop em HO'in....scene on ch 1...you blabla dweeb...you blabla this....while this is happenin...i'm still fightin initial spit..but now 2 of em...guess how i died...yes yes..you know what that dweeb said too me when asked why....he said that i HO'd his friend 1st  :rolleyes:

chutes....scene1- never
               scene 2- when chuter is out of ack range on the ground and spotting:eek: for his country(to shot or not to shot)

so now i fly alot more la7's....and ponies still

anecdote= FLIGHTPATH on the discovery channel asked which was the BEST fighter to ever have been built(including jets).

1 thing for sure...it WASN't the la7 or for that matter the NIk2.

try P51D(for its speed(compared to aircraft of its time), range and maneuvrability)

and the overall winner was the GOONY(for its overall usefullness)

sorry just felt like mentioning it...can't remember if that was a repeat show tho

SLO:cool:
4 WING=441 Silver Fox=
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Saintaw on February 19, 2002, 11:26:54 AM
lol Deja :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Vermillion on February 19, 2002, 11:54:26 AM
Since when did the Yak become a dweeb plane? Oh... since one shot Mandoble down? Ok that makes sense now ;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Widewing on February 19, 2002, 12:16:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gremlin
Self confessed dweeb here, (flys all the dweeb planes as well as the 'non dweeb' ones but trys not to HO, ram, and certainly doesnt take up a buff with the sole intention of gunning down fiters)

Whats worse than the dweeb tactics Mandoble mentions is the luftwhiners who climb to 30k in a luftwobbler make one attempt to HO you and then immediately dive for the deck cause they haven't the skill to reverse properly and even if they did they wouldnt know where to begin with ACM.  Im not talking about the good guys (like mandoble) who at least carry through the attack and only run when things go pear shaped.  Running is good.  Only a dweeb stays to fight a battle he cant win.

The other thing wich sucks is the guy who chases you for 20miles just because he knows you gotta problem (missing wingtip, smokin engine etc)  if you had both wings and a chance to fight back they'd run for miles to get away)

Gangbangin, your haveing a nice 1v1 with some1 and you see 5 spits comin in fast.  They killshooter themselves to get to ya, but inevitibly you buy it in the blizzard of 50 cals. You know what they say, 'Give enough monkeys' guns.  So next time ya see a pony being engaged by 2 friendlies leave em alone, they don't need your help, find your own fight.  All your doing is showing yourself up as a skilless dweeb who needs to hang onto other peoples coattails.

Last but by no means least, the spit who follows you around for 30 minutes waiting for you to attack someone so he can sneak up behind ya and get his cheap kill.  When this happens i always rev and at least try nail the dweeb.  THis is one time I have no problem with HO.  AT least if you gotta go down your gonna take this dweeb with ya and of course its much nicer when it works out and you emerge without a scratch.  


Good post Gremlin.

I hate HOs, and have no respect for those who practice it. Remember, I'm not talking about a head to head merge. That's totally different in purpose and intent. Most of the HO artists expect that their target will bear off. I no longer bother. If we collide, so be it.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Yak 9U is NOT a dweeb plane
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 19, 2002, 05:11:52 PM
Little puzzeled here - why is the Yak 9U a dweeb plane?  No newbies fly it - doesnt turn as well as Spits, not as fast as La7, and has the weakest guns in the game... I think most people hate the thing because they dont know what its capable of.  :P  Now stop talking about the damned plane so I can keep surprising people with it!

Mazz/Mike
<-TFC->
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Weave on February 19, 2002, 06:15:30 PM
Yak 9U has the weakest guns in the game?! Not gonna fly that puppy any more. Switching to the 202 so I'll have some real turbo lazers!:D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 19, 2002, 07:27:28 PM
I fact I would say Yak9U is just the dweebiest one.
And if that gun is weak, try a 151/20 ...
Yak9U eats Spits and La7s for freakfast, lauch and dinner, and never looses WEP (maximum advantage over any plane except 262).

In any case that is my dweeb rides list, u may have yours and just kill the chutes of their pilots :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKEagle+ on February 19, 2002, 08:02:18 PM
Quote
Little puzzeled here - why is the Yak 9U a dweeb plane?


Well Saurdukar, I'm not sure either, I was a bit suprised at that remark myself! :)

But the YAK9U was designed to be a 109/190 killer, and if it wasn't, well it in fact IS :)

Darn sweet ride, fast, slippery, forgiving, but you have to get in close and personal to do any damage with the guns.  Not enough ammoo for spray and pray.  Be darned if I can seem to come home with more than 2 scalps per sortie do to the amooo load.  Not enough ammooo to waste on low percentage HO shots, and with only 1 20 mm gun not too effective on HOs for poorer shots like myself even if you did take it.

Lets see, maybe because it is used so much by newbies??

The stats show for this tour so far

The Yak-9U has 3269 kills and has been killed 2726 times.

Other non-dweeb planes:

The Fw 190D-9 has 5330 kills and has been killed 3641 times.
The Fw 190A-5 has 2283 kills and has been killed 1712 times.
The Bf 109G-10 has 5220 kills and has been killed 4013 times.

How does it stack up in the MA against the non-dweeb planes?

The Yak-9U has 88 kills and has been killed 94 times against the Bf 109G-10.

The Yak-9U has 59 kills and has been killed 50 times against the Fw 190A-8.

The Yak-9U has 69 kills and has been killed 74 times against the Fw 190D-9.

This is out of a total of 185,000 total kills for all vehicle and planes so far this tour.  Nope doesn't seem to be a dominant ride.


Well, maybe it is a dweeb plane, it is fast, hard for a Dora or G10 to kill, even though the stats put the Dora and the G10 ahead.

The YAK9U a dweeb plane????  Man somebody is fishing, and I took the bait!  LOL! :D

Your mileage may vary...

AKEagle+
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 19, 2002, 08:07:37 PM
All chutes die.  I don't care what you were in to begin with, be it a Spit or a Dora, with God as my witness I will strafe your bailing pansy-ass if at all possible.

All it takes is one .303 to kill a bailer.  In my mind, that means I've got enough ammo in the Spit V to take down 1400 of 'em if need be.  So is it a waste of ammo to strafe chutes?  I can take down two or three planes with .303, or I can take down 1400 chutes.  It seems more wasteful to spend those bullets on planes instead of people.  :D

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Animal on February 19, 2002, 08:33:54 PM
Any plane that is not an easy kill for him, is a dweeb plane.
And since he sucks, most planes are dweeby.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: mrfish on February 19, 2002, 08:34:11 PM
yak? a dweeb plane? no way.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: -Concho- on February 19, 2002, 09:12:12 PM
Any plane I'm in is a dweeb plane............
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Widewing on February 19, 2002, 11:44:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mrfish
yak? a dweeb plane? no way.


I agree. Unless you are one hell of a marksman, you really need to bore in close to get more than one or two kills per sortie with the 9U.

Tonight, I tried my hand with the Yak-9T. I suppose that I could say I was successful, going 7/1 (K/D), and the one loss was due to a gangbang by a six or seven Knits. Nonetheless, that monster 37mm gun is a one-shot pinger. Using just 27 cannon rounds and a pocket full of MG ammo, I brought down two B-26s and a Spitfire Mk.IX. A flying artillery piece is what this thing is. A single cannon round blew off the Spit's wing. However, with only 32 cannon rounds, accurate shooting is a must.

I also gave the Hurricane IIC a try tonight as well. Armed with 4 Hiszookas (tm Leviathn) , it's a deadly, if bog-slow fighter. I operated the Hurri from a field being heavily vulched. So, I lost two of them just trying to get off the runway. However, the two times actually I got airborne were fun sorties. Two Spits, a Mustang, an La-7, one Mossy and a Yak-9U all fell victim to those nasty cannons.

Initially, I loaded two 1,000 lbs bombs, but switched fields before taking off. I forgot that they had been selected, and took off from the vulched field with them under the wings. However, I had forgotten that they were there. So, with that extra load and drag, I killed a SpitV and an La-7 in a tight little furball, all the while wondering why the Hurri was so sluggish and prone to mushing. Immediately afterwards, another Rook says, "hey Widewing, do you always dogfight with big bombs under the wings?" "Yeah", I replied, "it's only fair that I fly with a handicap." :cool:

Anyway, impressed with my own stupidity and good luck, I flew away from the field and jettisoned the bombs.:rolleyes:

Later, I was successful in getting off the runway again, and still did well, albeit against a bigger crowd of Knits. Finally, I accepted a head-on with a Mossy. We killed each other.

Anyway, it's a hoot to fly the decidedly non-dweeb fighters.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKIron on February 20, 2002, 12:11:27 AM
"mandoble has 6 kills and has been killed 3 times against the Yak-9U"

I don't really see enough experience here vs the Yak9U to qualify Mandoble as the Yak dweeb judge. BTW, I was one of the 3 Yak's  that killed him. :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 01:46:31 AM
The Yak9UT would be a perfect dweeb plane but we don't have any yet ...

I'm still waiting :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: mipoikel on February 20, 2002, 01:48:51 AM
PERK LA7 and Yak9-U!!!!:mad:

Part of my stats:

8 Kills of N1K2
3 Deaths by N1K2

12 Kills of P-51D
2 Deaths by P-51D

39 Kills of Spitfire Mk IX
13 Deaths by Spitfire Mk IX

7 Kills of SpitV
5 Deaths by SpitV

1 Kills of Yak-9T
0 Deaths by Yak-9T

9 Kills of Typhoon IB
3 Deaths by Typhoon IB

1 Kills of Yak-9U
2 Deaths by Yak-9U

1 Kills of La-7
5 Deaths by La-7

1 Kills of La-5FN
1 Deaths by La-5FN

12 Kills of P-38L
3 Deaths by P-38L

3 Kills of Fw 190D-9
2 Deaths by Fw 190D-9

4 Kills of Bf 109G-10
1 Deaths by Bf 109G-10

hmmm seems that Im still a spitdweeb...:D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 02:07:01 AM
AKIron, this is not my first tour in AH, u know?

So, Yak9U is not a super plane cause it has not hispanos, right?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 02:22:18 AM
Make no mistake (I love this sentence ;)) the D9 is a superb plane too !
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKEagle+ on February 20, 2002, 02:41:43 AM
Quote
So, Yak9U is not a super plane cause it has not hispanos, right?


MANDOBLE:

I would agree tha the Yak9U is a super plane. :)

But it is not a super gun platform.  Just because a plane can outfly a piece of Luftwaffe iron, does not make it a dweeb plane.  Unless your definition of "Dweeb Plane" is in fact any non LW that can outfly most LW iron.

My definition of a "dweeb plane." ??  A mythical, non-existent plane in a flight sim that is easy to fly and has good firepower, thus making it the preferred ride of newcomer’s.  Because a newcomer can fly these planes, they are deemed as unworthy by the elitists and branded with a disparaging nickname.  The fact that there actually were some WWII planes that were deadly and easier to fly than many of the high speed e fighters of the LW should not be taken into consideration when branding a plane "Dweeb"

But then what do I know?  I just spent an evening getting beat like a harp seal pup on the ice.  My first two take off’s I was vulched.  The whole night I was beaten, skinned alive and left to die! LOL!.   Not sure why it is, but I seem to lose about 80 IQ points every time I see a furball or a BBS!  LOL! :D

My $.02 anyways :)

AKEagle+
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 03:09:24 AM
err....

It's a well known fact that the "D" in the 190D9 name stand for Dweeben HunStang...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 04:24:36 AM
This is not a question of LW or not LW.
D9, P51 and P47 are in the same leage. Fast planes but move them, specially 47 and D9 and your energy is lost. Then you have also G10, fast and with good acceleration,  but better be slow if you want to move it. Add P38, 205 and even F4U to the pool. The fact is that there are four minimal-E-loose-whatever-they-do planes: Yak, spit(V and IX are the same thing), n1kj and La7. The last one looses E, but recovers it inmediately due its monstruos Hp/W power. The other three are simply aerodinamic miracles. And of these, Yak has an enormous advatage over the rest: No WEP.
D9 performance depends exclusively in the 10 mins WEP, no WEP in D9 transforms it in a small C47. The Yak is 100% forgiving plane even in engine management (I wonder whether La7 has really a WEP time limit).

I'm not trying to convince you that Yak is the dweebiest one, that is just my opinnion and it will not change. If some of you think that G10, D9, P51, etc are dweeb rides, ok, they'll be for u.

In any case, this is not a Yak thread. If you want to talk about Yak ubberness, go to the trainning forum where you will find a nice topic: Spit vs Yak.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45365
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Gremlin on February 20, 2002, 04:39:49 AM
My definition of a dweeb plane;  Any plane I don't know how to deal with.  :D Seems I'm not the only one. :( I used to do a lot of moaning about Uber planes, not anymore,  if a guy can get xteen kills in a 'nikie' (BTW that's Fariz's new name for our beloved N1K)  then fair play to him. My solution, if ya don't like 'em go fly 'em.  Then at least you'll be in a better position to deal with them when u return to a 'real mans plane'

Mandobles real complaint?  Allied fighters are better than LW iron.  Thats it pure and simple.  Just a fact of life you gotta live with. What does he wan't done, have every plane he considers uber perked?  Mandoble is one of the best LW fighters about but I think hes forgetting that not every1 is as skilled as he is.  If AH went down the elitist road don't think many newbies would hang around long enough to reach Mandobles level.
__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 04:47:10 AM
1st I don't think that any of the the legendary dweeb plane exist ...

But there is some dweeb pilots ...
Using NetAces (http://www.netaces.org) chart :


I don't look after 10 K as it's stratosphere for me :D
(I'm sick when to hight :p)

Speed Winner D9 with wep (if you run out of wep ... it's you problem not mine)

Acceleration Winner D9

Dive Acceleration equal

0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9

Speed Retention Winner D9

Sustained Rate of Climb Winner D9 (same remark as for speed)

Time to Altitude Winner D9 err ...no :D this is the Yak this time

"Max" Climb equal

Stall Speed yak9u ... but who care of stall speed excepat at landing ?

Roll Rates not tested ,I guess that the D9 is the winner by a large margin.


Now can you still pretend that the Yak9u is dweebest than the D9 ?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 20, 2002, 05:47:54 AM
Straffo, it doesn't say anything about sustained turn rates or E-retention. Yak9U will win does by far. Meaning you have to energy fight the yak in a dora or die. :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 06:03:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Apar
Straffo, it doesn't say anything about sustained turn rates or E-retention. Yak9U will win does by far. Meaning you have to energy fight the yak in a dora or die. :)


cough cough ...

0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9

Speed Retention Winner D9

I'm mistaken or what ?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 20, 2002, 06:07:25 AM
I thought that LW metal is limited almost exclusively to E fighting... :confused:
Of course not talking about 109F and 109E that are able of quite decent turnfighting...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 06:15:24 AM
Absolutely straffo :D

I will not enter to discusse these tests. In any case, remember that these comparation is valid only for 10 mins, then D9 wep is off and Yak would be the uber one all the time.

Ok, Now I will forget the topic about killing dweeb pilots and will get into a more serious topic: performance charts and tests.

You cant go, see a performance chart and say, hey, this plane is uber or this plane is sht, cause we dont fly airliners in this sim, we fly fighters that need to maneouver to get the kills. Top speed, substained climb, roll rate, etc are all measures taken in a "laboratory" environment. In these tests you will not find resulting speed after one or two 4g 360 degree turns at 5000 feet, for example. In fact you will not see the resulting speed loose/gain after changing anything in the control surfaces. And that is what counts for air combat.

I'm in a D9 pursuing a yak in a loop, I start the loop faster than him but he outruns me at the end of the loopv as well as outturns me into the loop by a wide margin, now where is the top speed advantage of the Dora??

Now we are in a vertical climbing zoom, I'm able to outzoom marginaly the Yak, but while I need 4 secs to invert the course at the top, he needs only 2. Where is the substained climb advantage of the Dora??

In my experience, D9 is better than Yak just if both keep the speed above 450, where no one will be able to score a single hit at the other.

About "(if you run out of wep ... it's you problem not mine)", this is my problem just because D9 has that limitation while Yak9U hasnt it. Now go and compare D9 without wep with Yak9U. This is like "(if your plane is slower than mine ... it's you problem not mine cause I have a faster plane)"


About:
0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9
Speed Retention Winner D9

Read the test procedure and you will notice that this has little or nothing to do with E-Retention in combat. I insist, we dont drive airliners. These tests are done in a no-control-input environment. That is, you just dont move the plane.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on February 20, 2002, 06:32:19 AM
>Mandobles real complaint?Allied fighters are better than LW >iron. Thats it pure and simple. Just a fact of life you gotta live >with. What does he wan't done, have every plane he considers >uber perked? Mandoble is one of the best LW fighters about but >I think hes forgetting that not every1 is as skilled as he is. If AH >went down the elitist road don't think many newbies would >hang around long enough to reach Mandobles level

 :D :) :) :) :) :) :)  :D  

 sure?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 06:44:28 AM
cough cough cough Atttttttttchaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
(weather is baaaad in Normadie today ...)

Fek ... I do agree ... :)

Last night I've spent 15 minutes trying to engage yer nasty Ta152 ;)
You're better at E keeping than me and in a D9 you've 9:59 minutes to kill my ineptitude :D or roll away ...


Concerning the test I'm not good enought to decide if it's valid or not but IMO it's quite balanced between a D9 and a Yak none of those  planes as a signifiant edge over the other.

I will try use the D9 more to have an opinion(*) of it compared to my lovely Yak.

(*) swag at work :)

IMO the ultimate advantage the Yak as versus the D9 is the following : she's sexiest :)  than that ugly  FW ;)
:D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 06:50:38 AM
Gremlin, do you remember the excelent fights D9 vs P51? Did you found any uberness in my D9? I, for sure, didnt found any uberness in your 51. I insist, this is not a question of LW iron against allied iron. Some planes do 50% of the work, while some others need the pilot to do 90% of it. There are always two attitude extremes:
- I want to fly planes that earn my kills.
- I want to earn my kills with little support of the plane.

For me, a gorgiving plane is a dweeb ride, no matter the top speed, climbing, diving or whatever. That doesnt mean that inside the dweeb ride is a dweeb pilot.

Straffo, were you fighting my Ta yesterday???

Take care of that "cough" ;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 20, 2002, 07:00:26 AM
Also Yak has quite bid disadvantage when it comes to damage... Because of its belly mounted radiator even the smallest hit from any angle kills the radiator first (1 ping) and how long does Yak fly without radiator? 10 seconds? And almost the same with oil :(  I have seen LW scrap metal flying for unlimited periods of time with this kind of damage... So YES Yak if flown properly is indeed a monster that eats LW all the time and has no problems with that but at the other hand its pretty fragile and its ammo load gives me about 4 kills per 1 ammo load (fighters) when I attack buffs in it my best is 2 B17s and I brought 5 canon rounds back to base with no holes in my plane... :D  (don't ask me how I did that, find out yourself - fly YAK!) :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2002, 07:19:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE


Straffo, were you fighting my Ta yesterday???

Take care of that "cough" ;)  


Yep :) you were dancing around ...
It was nice to see you working .

I've seen you kill some 4 bishcuits but the only time I was almost in position to be a little dangerous I was engaged by an hightest P51 and had to run away ...

After I run out of fuel and had to push by hand my Yak to park it :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 20, 2002, 07:24:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo

After I run out of fuel and had to push by hand my Yak to park it :D


That reminds me that Yak's endurance is also pretty limited...
Title: Re: Flying manners
Post by: Czpetr on February 20, 2002, 08:05:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
There are some manners non related to offensive expressions that are not moderated by anything in AH:

1 - Flying N1K2, La7, Spits or Yak is insulting by default.



I still wonder why someone constantly feels the need to whine and comment about dweeb planes, dweeb rides, uberplanes and whatever. Why do you care what the others fly in? It`s not your bussines. You are not paying their accounts. This wacky discussions make me pretty sick.

Btw: those fighters were excellent fighters in real life, did you ever hear about that?  So it`s no miracle when they are good in AH too.

czpetr
Title: Re: Re: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 08:32:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Czpetr
Why do you care what the others fly in?


Why do you care about me killing their chutes?? :D
Title: Re: Re: Re: Flying manners
Post by: Czpetr on February 20, 2002, 08:56:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE


Why do you care about me killing their chutes?? :D



I don`t care what you kill. I just wonder why do you care what others fly.

czpetr
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 09:14:22 AM
Because in most cases dweeb (forgiving) rides becomes overused to the point that go were you want to go and you will be fighting almost exclusively against Spits, Las and N1KJs all the time.

A sim is not only atractive because it has a lot of flyable planes, also because it has a lot of adversary plane types.

Imagine an offline sim with 50 flyable planes, but you can fight only against spits, La7s and N1KJ2s, boring, right?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Widewing on February 20, 2002, 09:33:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
PERK LA7 and Yak9-U!!!!:mad:

Part of my stats:

1 Kills of Yak-9U
2 Deaths by Yak-9U

1 Kills of La-7
5 Deaths by La-7



I'm of the opposite opinion. I have little trouble with these types.

4 kills of Yak-9U
0 deaths by Yak-9U

13 kills of La-7
4 deaths by La-7

Nor do I find the Mustang to be a big problem.

20 kills of P-51B/D
8 deaths by P-51B/D

Indeed, the only aircraft I have a poor K/D with is the Me 262. But, that's already perked to the moon. It's hard to kill 262s with the lead-sleds I usually fly (Ki-61, A6M5, SpitV/IX, Hurricane and Yak-9T/U), 'cause they won't slow down and fight with me.... :rolleyes:

0 kills of Me 262
2 deaths by Me 262

Flying the Ki-61, Yak-9T and Hurricane IIC, I have a record of 64 kills, 21 deaths. So, one could argue that these fighters should be perked too. :D

My best,

Widewing
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKIron on February 20, 2002, 09:58:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
I fact I would say Yak9U is just the dweebiest one.
 


The Yak9U while a good all around plane has several weaknesses which have been mentioned and I won't reiterate.

You should realize that calling someone's ride a dweeb ride is equivalent to calling them a dweeb. If not, consider your self informed. This board is relatively unmoderated and you're free to call anyone or any plane a "dweeb" anytime you want. Just don't imagine your true intent won't be recognized and refuted.

I looked back over the last 8 tours (now this does make me a dweeb) and here's what I found, you vs yak9u:

             kills of Yak9U   -   killed by Yak9U
tour 24                  15   -   1
tour 23                    4   -   2
tour 22                    6   -   1
tour 21                    2   -   0
tour 20                   10  -   7
tour 19                   13  -   2
tour 18                     7  -   2
tour 17                   16  -   3

I still don't see your justification for calling the Yak9U the "dweebiest" plane in AH.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 10:11:42 AM
It is obvious that a dweeb pilot with be dweeb whatever they fly. Dweeb rides may have dweeb pilots or not into them.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKSWulfe on February 20, 2002, 10:15:03 AM
Man, some of you guys just can't resist complaining about something.

La7, okay, for 4-8 perks I can see that.

Yak9U?!?!?! Well hell, perk the D9 with that then and the 109G10.

You guys would be in tears, or perhaps a mental hospital, if a Yak-3 were introduced here.
-SW
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 10:17:51 AM
Who is talking about perks? I'm talking about straffing chutes.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKSWulfe on February 20, 2002, 10:23:29 AM
Damn it, don't read another post when you reply to one. It just isn't good.

But anyways, I still insist that the 109G10 and 190D9 are just as dweeby as the Yak-9U.

And the Yak3 will give you nightmares Mandoble. :)
-SW
Title: Flying manners
Post by: krazyhorse on February 20, 2002, 11:00:35 AM
confirmed dweeb here:D  CATS A FARTIN= < in one ear out the udder>;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKEagle+ on February 20, 2002, 01:02:08 PM
Quote
Because in most cases dweeb (forgiving) rides becomes overused to the point that go were you want to go and you will be fighting almost exclusively against Spits, Las and N1KJs all the time.

A sim is not only atractive because it has a lot of flyable planes, also because it has a lot of adversary plane types.

Imagine an offline sim with 50 flyable planes, but you can fight only against spits, La7s and N1KJ2s, boring, right?



There is several basic problems with the unrealistic (in the sense of not being like the real war was, not talking FM or DM here) MA.  Everyone on every side (3 of them to boot) can fly every plane.  People ARE going to gravitate to the easiest to fly, and deadliest planes.

It is highly unlikely that you will get people to voluntarily fly a diversity of planes.  I mean why get your butt kicked in a 202 when you can fly a Dora or a YAK?

 If you are going to furball, and most pilots seem to be located in close proximity if not the middle of, furballs at bases.  (That is until the buffs blast out one of the bases, and then the furball develops elsewhere.)  Why take a Dora for base defense when you can take a Spit or a NIKI?

Yep those "dweeb" planes do recover speed well, but they did in real life.  LW iron didn't.  Maybe it is LW iron that is dweeby???  I believe I read somewheres that the Brits and Yanks took the Krauts out at about 6:1.  Call it what you want, blame pilot quality etc etc.  But some of the difference has got to be in the plane performance.  To send your untrained pilots into combat in planes that are being taken out 6:1 is IMNSHO dweeby as it gets.  Down right criminal to tell the truth.

I think it is not rational to expect people in the MA to perform to your expectations so that you have a nice variety of poor planes to dine on.  I looked at your stats, 340 out of 441 kills this tour so far are in a Dora.  You don't practice what you preach.   You want to fly the hot planes, but the rest of us are dweebs???

You need to be a little more rational.  We are not dweebs, neither are you.  We want to fly what we want to fly just like you. We want to have fun, just like you.  Lighten up, you have a 8:1 k/d, I am lucky if I give as good as I get.  The point is to enjoy yourself my friend, and if you are not, well, maybe you need a break from AH, of need to try another game for a while.  A change is as good as a rest.  :)

AKEagle+
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 20, 2002, 01:46:27 PM
AKEagle, I'm flying an underused plane, and, in fact, what i consider the hardest plane to fight in and the hardest plane to fly. Fight is fight, not just to climb to 30k and keep at 450 mph all the time waiting for some AFK enemy to cross your gun sight.

Just to check what I already knew I picked up a SpitIX the other day. Believe it or not, but for that online fight test I decide to not use WEP at all except in take off, 75% internal + DT. 2 50" and 2 hispanos. It was "a dream", two 109 (G10 and G2) and another spit were killed with no effort at all in less than 2 minutes. I just imagine these 2 109 and Spit vs my dweeb D9, and well, I would had a very hard time.

About LW not recovering speed well in RL, well, if you want and have time we may work with some technical data, drags and power to weight ratios.

6:1 at the end of the war reprents nothing special, not just due the age and trainning of the pilots, but for the main mission of the LW. At these days LW were not targeting into allied fighters but into allied bombers. Add being massively outnumbered.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKSWulfe on February 20, 2002, 01:50:57 PM
Yes, but Mandoble, you must remember that during the Battle of Britain while the Brits were overpowered and under-manned, manage to beat back the Germans and get a very good kill ratio.

So really, it doesn't matter, the Germans began losing the minute they struck Britain.

And really.. you consider the D9 the hardest to fly and fight in? Sweet jebus, that's the easiest of the LostWaffle planeset other than the G10!!!

A8, now that's hard.
-SW
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 20, 2002, 02:29:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
AKEagle, I'm flying an underused plane, and, in fact, what i consider the hardest plane to fight in and the hardest plane to fly.


You consider the Dora to be both underused and the hardest plane to fly or fight in?  

ROFLMAO

This is a plane that, in Tour 24, had almost 10,000 total kills against all targets, ranking it #10 in total kills out of 35 fighters in the game -- that places it better than almost 75% of the other fighters in Aces High. It had a 1.344:1 K/D ratio against fighters and a 2.429:1 K/D ratio against bombers -- the highest fighter to fighter K/D of any of the top ten planes in total kills.  Against Spit IXs it managed a 1.309:1 K/D ratio and an even better 1.565:1 K/D ratio against the dreaded Spit V.

Why?  Because, obviously, this plane controls just about any fight.  It can pick and choose its engagements, it's fast, and it handles very well.  The 190A8 is significantly more difficult to fly -- slower and with much nastier stall characteristics.  Not surprisingly, it has half the total number of kills of the Dora in Tour 24, and it possessed a K/D ratio against fighters of less than 1:1.

That you would consider the Dora an underrated, underused, underappreciated, difficult plane says a lot about your mindset.  You must be the only person in AH who actually believes this.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 21, 2002, 04:48:20 AM
Straffo,

AFAIK sustained turn rate of Yak is much better than that of the Dora, that also goes for the initial turn rate. I'm happy to do some trials with you in the DA, You in Dora, me in yak, :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 05:22:50 AM
DMF, you seem to know little or just nothing at all about our AH 190 set. it handles very well said all about your D9 NULL knowledge.

Kills do not mean usage, deaths do (1 death = 1 plane used). Tour 24: 7617 deaths for 190D9, 9872 for 109G10 AND 20490 ONLY for SpitV. So, I insists, that "WONDER-UBER-UNPERKED" plane is absolutely underused compared with the "POOR" SpitV.

About 190A8 and A5, both outturns and ourrolls the D9, and both have better hi speed handling than D9 too, and I have extensive experience flying all of them. D9 is faster and has a better substained climb (not zoom), in the other hand it has 2 guns instead 4.

190A8 is far better jabo than 190F8, so its kill/death is not very representative (same for P51/P47/P38/F6F/F4U). In the other hand, D9 is almost useless as jabo and logically its K/D will be always greater.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 21, 2002, 06:06:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Apar
Straffo,

AFAIK sustained turn rate of Yak is much better than that of the Dora, that also goes for the initial turn rate. I'm happy to do some trials with you in the DA, You in Dora, me in yak, :)


Why not ?, I love learning from good stick but currently it will be difficult as I've not a lot of time :(

Me  :
T25 : 04:31:46
T24 : 09:21:51
T23 : 06:12:18
TOT : 20:05:55

you
T25 : 16:15:19
T24 : 82:14:34
T23 : 76:29:23
TOT : 174:59:16

hahem :D
I feel bad ;)

To add difficulty (*) I canno't fly before 22:00 CET and I wake up at 06:00 each moring so if we duel on monday you will face an average pilot but if we duel on Friday ...

I will be a fat slow thinking target :(

(*) and my little is adding her last teeth too :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Gremlin on February 21, 2002, 06:13:42 AM
Gotta come back and eat some words.

On reflection any plane that causes your plane to vapourise with 1 ping has gotta be looked at seriously,  I refer to the Yak9T and the LA7.  I dont care what caliber the ammo is even a 37mm shell should not vapourise your plane with one hit, yeah it may well break your plane in two, remove a wing but not explode.  Has anyone seen guncam footage of a plane being vapourised by 1 ping?  As for the LA7 now theres a plane that needs perking if I ever saw one.

Get this, last night I am cruisin around in my pony at c20k.  I spot an f6f at c12-13k.  I decide to amke a couple of quick passes.  I spot an la7 at about 15k comin in.  I'm not too worried, just make this 1 pass and do a nice gentle zoom back towards 20k.  If the la7 wants to fight me up there well it will be my pleasure to oblige.  I get back up to 20k to find this la7 closin in fast.Try to outclimb it, I think, start pulling away with this thing spraying at me from 800 yds, i get out to 1k thinking i'm clear, 1 lucky spray and pray ping later and im back in the tower!!!

IMHO that is BS.  LA7 seems far more uber than a tempest imho.  So unperk the tempest and perk the la7!!  I'm trying not to do the "It kills me so it should be perked" line.  I just hate those friggin laser cannons:)



Gremlin.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 06:23:02 AM
straffo, what are these cryptical numbers ??

Gremlin, that ping could have been a lucky direct hit in the pilot's head. The weird thing is diving with P51 from 20k to 13k, zooming up to 20k and being caught by a 15k La7 ... ... wasn't the La7 a stone above 10k?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 21, 2002, 06:35:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gremlin

On reflection any plane that causes your plane to vapourise with 1 ping has gotta be looked at seriously,  I refer to the Yak9T and the LA7.  I dont care what caliber the ammo is even a 37mm shell should not vapourise your plane with one hit, yeah it may well break your plane in two, remove a wing but not explode.  Has anyone seen guncam footage of a plane being vapourised by 1 ping?  As for the LA7 now theres a plane that needs perking if I ever saw one.


Those 1 ping BOOM he goes kills are pilot kills (IMHO). Actually I would like to see pilot death modeled not as a BOOM but as sudden lose of control with info in console from system informing YOU that your pilot has been killed and you would have been forced to ride the plane all the way down. Of course the kill message informing the guy who did this to you would appear only after your plane or its parts hit the ground.... I know this is ABSOLUTELY unnaceptable by furball dweebs who would have to wait few seconds until their dead plane hits the ground but would be more realistic... And maybe even fun seeing the red guys hunting down a 'dead' plane spending their ammo and killshooting themselves in the hunt :D  oh well...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 21, 2002, 06:36:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
straffo, what are these cryptical numbers ??



It just to say that Apar as 8.706461198 (*) more stick time than me for the last 3 month :D
Or if you prefer I've 11,4857228(*) % of Apar  stick time for the same period ;)

T25 : 50:33:25
T24 : 92:03:23
T23 : 71:48:54
TOT : 214:25:42

ouch !
you've 10.66881349(*) more stick time than me ... I've 9.373113524(*) % of your stick time :)

And my wife think I spent to much time in AH :eek: :eek: :eek:

(*) rounded value :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 06:46:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, you seem to know little or just nothing at all about our AH 190 set. it handles very well said all about your D9 NULL knowledge.
[/B]

I've flown the Dora with great success in the past, and I wing with Nath who flies the 190A8.  Unfortunately for you, I do know the AH 190 set rather well, and the 190D9 handles extremely well.  That doesn't mean that it turns very well.  What it does mean is that it exhibits a number of very desirable flight properties that include nice E retention in the vertical, good to great roll response, very high speed, fluid controls, nice stall characteristics, and more.  You're absolutely freaking kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.  It's one of the nicest complete plane packages in the entire game that mates extremely high speeds with competent handling and a nearly infinite WEP.

Quote
Kills do not mean usage, deaths do (1 death = 1 plane used). Tour 24: 7617 deaths for 190D9, 9872 for 109G10 AND 20490 ONLY for SpitV. So, I insists, that "WONDER-UBER-UNPERKED" plane is absolutely underused compared with the "POOR" SpitV.
[/B]

Deaths no more indicate useage than kills do in this context.  Not every flight ends with death, and Doras on average have higher survivability than Spit Vs due to their speed, so it's possible that there are many more sorties than deaths.

And I insist that the Dora is hardly underused by any stretch of the imagination.  You've invented the myth of the underused Dora to perpetuate this illusion you have of its perceived inferiority among players.  This then enables you to claim that your success in it both proves them wrong and demonstrates that you can fly the toughest plane in the game.  The fact is that the Dora is neither underused by a long shot, nor is it remotely the hardest plane in the game to fly.  Sorry to disappoint you, but it's true.

Quote
About 190A8 and A5, both outturns and ourrolls the D9, and both have better hi speed handling than D9 too, and I have extensive experience flying all of them. D9 is faster and has a better substained climb (not zoom), in the other hand it has 2 guns instead 4.
[/B]

The A8 does not necessarily outturn the Dora, but the A5 certainly does.  The Dora is substantially faster than both of them, and it also possesses more forgiving controls.  I've never had the Dora try to kick out from under me like the A8 will.  And while you're correct that the A8 rolls better than the Dora, you misrepresent the fact that the Dora still outrolls just about every other plane in AH.  In my experience, the Dora also seems much more stable than the A8 in the pure vertical -- much less willing to stall out or torque into a spin.

Quote
190A8 is far better jabo than 190F8, so its kill/death is not very representative (same for P51/P47/P38/F6F/F4U). In the other hand, D9 is almost useless as jabo and logically its K/D will be always greater.


Eh?  Something used in a jabo role would probably have a higher, not a lower, K/D ratio due to the vulching that inevitably occurs during such operations.  In the very least, I'd expect that vulching offsets the danger of jabo work in the long run.

Wake up from your fantasy world, Mandoble.  The Dora is as much a dweeb ride as the La-7 or Spits.  You're in total denial.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 07:21:33 AM
DMF, I stop looking for at tour 14, just bored of seing spit kills. As I suspected by your comments, and as I confirmed with the stats, your experience with ANY 190 is N U L L, Z E R O, N O N E. No matter to reply to your post. If you want, re-read my previous one cause the reply would be the same word by word.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 21, 2002, 07:23:50 AM
LOL Straffo, and I only fly weekends (not home during midweeks), imagine what my wife thinks of me during those weekends, :D

Anyway I'll look you up once online. The invite is not intended as a challenge (lost too many challenges lately anyway) just to try it out with you.


Cya up there.

Apar
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dawvgrid on February 21, 2002, 07:24:01 AM
Aren`t we all dweebs,,,,,somehow;) ,,,,,,confession from a Dora,
a5 driver.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 21, 2002, 07:31:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Apar
LOL Straffo, and I only fly weekends (not home during midweeks), imagine what my wife thinks of me during those weekends, :D

Anyway I'll look you up once online. The invite is not intended as a challenge (lost too many challenges lately anyway) just to try it out with you.


Cya up there.

Apar


No problem :)

I don't take it as a challenge but as an occasion to have fun :) nothing else  perhaps we can meet on sunday 24/02 or 3/03 feel free to contact me
(btw I allready know almost all the lamest/quickest way to end my fate :D)

And don't let your wife go she is quite tolerant !
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 07:48:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, I stop looking for at tour 14, just bored of seing spit kills. As I suspected by your comments, and as I confirmed with the stats, your experience with ANY 190 is N U L L, Z E R O, N O N E. No matter to reply to your post. If you want, re-read my previous one cause the reply would be the same word by word.


Nice job of checking up on me, Mandoble.  Unfortunately, yet again you fall short (this is becoming a trend for you).  First, I've not always flown under the handle Leviathn.  Second, I flew H2H for six months of the last two years, and in that environment I've had extensive experience with tons of planes.  Third, I've flown 190s in duels (flew the Dora 2v2 last night), Wild Wednesday, and more.

In addition, it's rather funny that you suggest that an inaccurate portrait of my experience in 190s somehow discredits my understanding of them.  In that case, anything you've ever stated about Spits given your almost zero experience in them is clearly misguided and misinformed.  Everyone can safely ignore it, as I'm sure they already do.

I stand by my statement:  The Dora is easy to fly.  It's very survivable, one of the most survivable non-perked planes in AH along with the P-51, and it features many desirable flight properties if you look beyond mere turn rate and radius.  If flown conservatively, it's nearly untouchable.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: batdog on February 21, 2002, 08:06:15 AM
Baaa...your all tards . I hope my 38 pieces fall on you all. :p


xBAT
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 21, 2002, 08:06:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MadBirdCZ


Those 1 ping BOOM he goes kills are pilot kills (IMHO).


Of course the fuel detonation could be also the cause but almost all latewar planes had tanks quite well protected agains fire and detonation so I would not bet on this one too much.
And the ordonance can make pretty nice boom too (if you have any and if its hit the right way but IMHO its also not very usual).

Wrom what I have seen at guncameras so far there always was a lot of rubble flying all around, lots of smoke, some flames, small scale detonations (ammunition) but almost no BIG BANGs...

Hmm... Oh well...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 08:09:04 AM
I've also noted the number of 190 killed by you and the number of times killed by 190 and for each version. DMF, U are the funny one, and extremely funny ROFLOL. Cmon, next time give us leasons about 109G2, we'll be pleased to heard the word of a so experienced G2 master.

uh! forgot, a spit at 30k is untouchable by a D9 and hardly touchable by a Ta, so what? spit is very surveiable???
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Widewing on February 21, 2002, 08:37:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gremlin
Gotta come back and eat some words.

On reflection any plane that causes your plane to vapourise with 1 ping has gotta be looked at seriously,  I refer to the Yak9T and the LA7.  I dont care what caliber the ammo is even a 37mm shell should not vapourise your plane with one hit, yeah it may well break your plane in two, remove a wing but not explode.  Has anyone seen guncam footage of a plane being vapourised by 1 ping?  As for the LA7 now theres a plane that needs perking if I ever saw one.

Get this, last night I am cruisin around in my pony at c20k.  I spot an f6f at c12-13k.  I decide to amke a couple of quick passes.  I spot an la7 at about 15k comin in.  I'm not too worried, just make this 1 pass and do a nice gentle zoom back towards 20k.  If the la7 wants to fight me up there well it will be my pleasure to oblige.  I get back up to 20k to find this la7 closin in fast.Try to outclimb it, I think, start pulling away with this thing spraying at me from 800 yds, i get out to 1k thinking i'm clear, 1 lucky spray and pray ping later and im back in the tower!!!

IMHO that is BS.  LA7 seems far more uber than a tempest imho.  So unperk the tempest and perk the la7!!  I'm trying not to do the "It kills me so it should be perked" line.  I just hate those friggin laser cannons:)



Gremlin.


I got pinged by an La-7 last evening after being dinged in the elevator during a furball. With that, I could not turn well enough to defeat the Lavochkin. That, however, is the rare exception, not the rule. At 20k the La-7 is not "uber" and can be out-flown in the Mustang with little difficulty. Your mistake was not hauling around and killing it forthwith. Had you simply unloaded and engaged WEP, you would have extended away without drama. I never run from Lavochkins. I just reverse and kill 'em. :D Seriously, unless you get vulched unaware, La-7s are less of a threat than the majority of the planeset. While there are some good sticks in the La-7, a considerable number are newbies and/or dweebs, ripe for picking.

Fly the La-7 for a while, learn its strengths and weaknesses. I'm 7 and 3 flying it, and this gained me insight into how to deal with them. Simply stated, dodge BnZ runs until they get frustrated and decide to turn with you, then break them down to a stall and kill 'em. Looking at your stats, I don't see a single type that you fly on a regular basis, that can't defeat the La-7 with little trouble,
provided you don't fight to their strengths. In other words, avoid the vertical Rope-A-Dope, get the fight down to the deck and eat 'em alive, or at least force them to high-tail it for their lives. I'm 15/4 against the La-7, and I generally fly the least "uber" fighters in the planeset (I like the challenge).

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Flying manners
Post by: thrila on February 21, 2002, 08:44:25 AM
Bah stats mean nothing. All you people using stats as "evidence" are dweebs. :D

Mandoble is pretty dweeby too, so's the 190D.  Although the 190D is not as dweeby as the la7, but more so than the P51D:D


Tour 24 stats for my tiffy v 190D 9:1........now i'm a stat dweeb, although i was pretty dweeby to begin with anyway:)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Shane on February 21, 2002, 08:51:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, I stop looking for at tour 14, just bored of seing spit kills. As I suspected by your comments, and as I confirmed with the stats, your experience with ANY 190 is N U L L, Z E R O, N O N E. No matter to reply to your post. If you want, re-read my previous one cause the reply would be the same word by word.


what's so hard about the a8?

Tour 25 stats in MA in one...  12 kills 1 death.

CT tour 2 in D9 (which i found to be a pretty sweet and forgiving ride)  26 kills for 15 deaths.

I have to agree the D9 isn't hard to *fly*, only hard to hit anything with them damn guns and poor ballistics.

i think i'll fly the d9 in MA for a bit and see how it goes, and I'm a total doofus in LW rides.

:D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 08:57:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
I've also noted the number of 190 killed by you and the number of times killed by 190 and for each version. DMF, U are the funny one, and extremely funny ROFLOL. Cmon, next time give us leasons about 109G2, we'll be pleased to heard the word of a so experienced G2 master.
[/B]

Then you'd notice that I have no problems killing 190s, which is really something when you consider that they are the ones who control the fight, not me.  In most cases, it means I managed to sucker them into fighting my kind of fight.  They can enter and exit the fight at will... if I can force a mistake that provides me with a snapshot opportunity, or if I can get them to turn with me, then they're going to die.  In most cases, I simply avoid them.

Of course I won't "give lessons" on the 109G2... I have very little experience in any of the 109s except for the G10.  I don't recall "giving lessons" on the 190 either beyond explaining their basic differences and how they fit into the overall plane set.  You're right that everyone here is laughing, but they're laughing at you, not with you.

If you'd like, I'll have Nath come here and give his thoughts on the 190s in AH.  My guess is that his observations will be more refined but basically similar.

Quote
uh! forgot, a spit at 30k is untouchable by a D9 and hardly touchable by a Ta, so what? spit is very surveiable???


As I don't even know the last time I passed 20k let alone 30k, I'll take your word for it.  As 90% of the fights in AH take place below 30k, it also has little bearing on the statements I've made about survivability.  If you happen to be flying at 30k encountering orbital Spits, that does explain a lot.

Just for the heck of it, I went to H2H earlier today and grabbed a Dora to dogfight the Spits, 109s, and F4Us that were there.  The result was that I manged no less than six kills in every flight while mixing it up with "better" planes.  I could manage a turn or two with Spits before bugging out and extending to 2k away.  In no case were they able to follow, and I would simply reverse and repeat until I achieved a guns solution.

Easy pickings.  Had I desired, I could have flown more conservatively and never died.  It's not like any of the other planes would have caught me unless I allowed them to.

Yep, the Dora sure is a hard plane to fly.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 09:01:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
what's so hard about the a8?


It's got a medicore top speed and turnrate relative to other arena planes.  It also lacks the ability to truly control a fight like Doras, P-51s, 109G10s, or La-7s can do thanks to their speed.

I love the guns though.  :)

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 21, 2002, 10:18:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shane:
i think i'll fly the d9 in MA for a bit and see how it goes, and I'm a total doofus in LW rides.


Time for me to grab a P51D, :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 21, 2002, 10:43:48 AM
Now which planes are hard to fly than in AH?

AFAIK there are no planes in AH that are hard to fly but there are planes that are hard to FIGHT in (E-fight, low-speed dogfight, stall fight, you name it...) based on their specific ACM capabilities.
All planes have their advantages and disadvanteges. I know one thing for sure (having flown the various 190's long enough) it is not easy to slow speed dogfight or stall fight in them. Main advantage of the 190's is roll rate , a5 to some extent turn rate, dora high speed maneuverability. 190's tend to snap roll on low speed (dora too) which requires allot of control to prevent it.
I switched from 109 flying (all of em) to 190's. 109's are much more suitable for stall fights and have much better low speed handling, but a poorer roll rate.
I try pushing the 190's to its low speed limits many times (and i died allot in the progress, but I also learned allot and surprised a couple in the MA), but there are many planes in AH that have much better low speed handling than 190's (like P51, P38, P47, Spit's, niki's, la7, KI61, yak, la5, f6f, zero, 109), especially the planes that can deploy flaps above 200mph (which the 190's can't)
Stating that the Dora is easy to fly, yes I agree, but that goes for 99% of the planes in AH, it doesn't say anything on whether it is easy to fight in it and in what sort of fight.
I do agree with the fact that the survivability in the Dora is high, if flown high speed, or if in a 1v1 break off in time. But that goes also for many other fast planes (like the P51, P47, P38, la7, yak, tempest, tiffy). It all depends on how people fly their plane with the limits of that plane. You can B&Z forever without taking any risc in many planes.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 11:28:52 AM
Apar, it seems you have a clear idea of what fighting in a plane is :)
I insist, we dont fly airliners here. Start to "dance" in your D9 and you will find that any Spit is much faster, keep D9 as an airliner and you will find that it would be a fast transport plane.

Icons and radar detroy the concept of boom&zoom that is based on surprise attacks and flee as fast as possible.

Here, top speed may be useful to flee or to pursue an enemy, but not to fight it. Acceleration is the key factor. La7 top speed doesnt convert it in the killer it actually is, it is only its acceleration, specially acceleration from stall to corner speeds. You want to have excelent acceleration or very good E retention, while top speed is secondary. These are the primary factors for a dogfighter, top speed would be a primary factor for interceptors. An our MA is a 100% dogfighter environment.

DMF, you simply cant appreciate real differences between 190 fighting them in a spit, you will notice that D9 is faster, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you may notice differences fighting against Ki61 or N1KJ, but any 190 is just a flying stone for your spit.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Shane on February 21, 2002, 11:45:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Apar, it seems you have a clear idea of what fighting in a plane is :)

Icons and radar detroy the concept of boom&zoom that is based on surprise attacks and flee as fast as possible.

You want to have excelent acceleration or very good E retention, while top speed is secondary. These are the primary factors for a dogfighter, top speed would be a primary factor for interceptors. An our MA is a 100% dogfighter environment.



i think you're simply using the wrong tactics in conjunction with looking in the wrong place for the kind of fight you apparently want.

i flew a d9 for 4 sorties, got 11 kills, and i fly stupid without a care for rtb. i took out 2 buffs, a few FW's who didn't know how to *fight* against another fw (even when i  had two other fw's on me at the same time), took out a 38 using e-tactics, cleared a few 6's in some smallish fur. i even managed a bounce near an enemy base.

if i had flown more conservatively, i might have had only 1 death, but probably a few less kills, still 7:1 k/d wouldn't be too bad, would it?

the hardest thing about the fw's or any lw plane for that matter is gunnery, but that can improve with enough practice and taking better % shots (but with the fw ammo load, spraying is an option at times, too).

*and*  at no time did i spin out, even when i stalled a few times vs the 38. the d9 is pretty forgiving with the exception of the tendancy to want to snaproll around 200 ias when you're trying to pull too hard for that shot - and that can be lessened with more time in seat to get used to the proper angles and timings to use.

just sayin' :D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 21, 2002, 12:04:47 PM
Doesn't mean much Shane. Dunno who the pilots on the other end were.
Let me tell you that against a good P51 pilot (like yourself) you wouldn't pull a stall fight in the Dora (190a5 maybe, I did it a couple of times at 10k against you while you were in a P51D, ;) ), neither against TAC, Kappa in their P38, neither against a yak, maybe against a la7. Try knife edge fighting a good P47 pilot in the Dora, it will be an eye opener.

Fly it for a whole tour against allot of pilots in the MA (no safe 25k+ B&Z, but at -15k)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 12:56:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Apar
Now which planes are hard to fly than in AH?


You make a good point, Apar, and it's well stated.  To answer your original question, I consider a plane harder to fly in AH when it possesses fewer relative strengths than it does relative weaknesses compared to other planes.  It is possible at some point to encounter a plane that does everything yours does, only better.  I imagine we'll see more of this with the new 1.09 planes.  The Hurricane I with .303s probably won't climb better, roll better, accelerate better, have a better top speed, retain E more efficiently, etc. vs. the Hurricane IIC.  I'd also suspect that the turnrates on both would be roughly equal.  Clearly the four 20mm Hispanos on the IIC give it monstrous firepower compared to a set of .303s.

In that context, the Hurricane I would be a more difficult plane to fly.  Or more appropriately, a more difficult plane in which to kill things than a Hurricane IIC, as the later model Hurricane performs as well or better than it does in just about every category.

By this criteria I consider the Dora easy relative to the A8 because it enjoys a number of key advantages including substantially higher top end speed and more stable handling.  It can control fights whereas the A8 cannot (at least for long).  If my virtual life depended on it, I'd choose the Dora over the A8 for its superior survivability.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 01:06:35 PM
While you are running away or while you are traveling at mach 2 you ARE "N O T" FIGHTING. Is that so difficult to understand????

In any case I insist, you have not experience flying them or flying against them to say a single word about 190s except that u outurns any of them with your SpitV and any of them are faster than your SpitV, Shane has even less. And a "laboratory" environment like H2H is not MA.

Perhaps this is new to you, but top speed is not a factor to be able to disengange and, of course, is not a factor to decide whether to engange or not. Top speed dictates very little if u compare it with acceleration and altitude.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 01:11:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Apar, it seems you have a clear idea of what fighting in a plane is :)
I insist, we dont fly airliners here. Start to "dance" in your D9 and you will find that any Spit is much faster, keep D9 as an airliner and you will find that it would be a fast transport plane.
[/B]

You act as if this is a new revelation in this thread.  If you notice my response to you earlier, I noted that most of my 190 kills in a Spit come from suckering them into fighting "my fight."  That means that instead of using their speed to control the fight, they decided to either give me a snapshot angle or turn with me when they should have done something wiser.  Had they been wise, however, there is no way I could have killed them in a Spit V.  Conversely, no matter how well I fly the Spit V, there's no way I can get a kill on a Dora unless it screws up.  The Dora controls that fight, and it's his choice how it begins and ends.

Quote
Icons and radar detroy the concept of boom&zoom that is based on surprise attacks and flee as fast as possible.
[/B]

Okay.  How is BnZing with surprise attacks and fleeing as fast as possible "hard?"  You did comment that the Dora was the hardest plane in AH to fly and fight in, but even a 202 can do what you've just mentioned.  That's not hard, but the Dora's speed and guns do make it easier than other planes.

Quote
Here, top speed may be useful to flee or to pursue an enemy, but not to fight it. Acceleration is the key factor. La7 top speed doesnt convert it in the killer it actually is, it is only its acceleration, specially acceleration from stall to corner speeds. You want to have excelent acceleration or very good E retention, while top speed is secondary. These are the primary factors for a dogfighter, top speed would be a primary factor for interceptors. An our MA is a 100% dogfighter environment.
[/B]

Clearly it's not a 100% dogfighter environment or you wouldn't achieve any kills at all.  Top speed does matter, or the P-51 wouldn't be as effective a fighter as it is.  Though it accelerates poorly, the P-51 hits a fantastic top speed and bleeds E so slowly that it can stay fast for a very long time.  In that case, it's not the acceleration that matters, but the E retention that makes the 51 untouchable.  The Dora seems to be somewhere inbetween the La-7 and the P-51 in this respect -- it doesn't accelerate as well as the La-7, but it is better than the P-51.  It doesn't hold its E as well as the P-51, but it holds E better than the La-7 (which makes up for it with acceleration).  In my experience in H2H this morning, the Dora handled very well at mid-range speeds from about 250-350mph... keeping it within this range, I felt in control of every fight where I merged co-alt and co-E, including against Spits.  Though it's unorthodox to furball a Dora, I did so with some success earlier by playing to its strengths... the ability to enter and exit the fight on its own terms.  If I didn't like the way a fight was going against a Spit, I'd point the nose down and extend out to set things up again.

Quote
DMF, you simply cant appreciate real differences between 190 fighting them in a spit, you will notice that D9 is faster, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you may notice differences fighting against Ki61 or N1KJ, but any 190 is just a flying stone for your spit.


Definitely NOT true.  The best way to defeat an enemy is to know an enemy.  I will fly differently against an A5 than I will against a D9, because the differences between the two of them are substantial.  The A5 grants the Spit the luxury of flying more aggressively since it's much slower than the Dora.  I'll also perform certain moves against Doras that I won't against the A5, and vice-versa.  I certainly do appreciate the differences against 190s, and this is why I fly effectively against them.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 01:23:02 PM

Clearly it's not a 100% dogfighter environment or you wouldn't achieve any kills at all


Yep, everybody knows that I get into the furballs at 500 mph trying to cross with an unaware green pilot :D

Do you know what K/T is?

And I bet that having same shape and colour you are unable to appreciate any difference between 190s. As I'm unable to see any differences between spits.

Perhaps these 190s downed cause got into your play decided to do that cause it is the only way to kill a spit, unless AFK.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 01:25:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
While you are running away or while you are traveling at mach 2 you ARE "N O T" FIGHTING. Is that so difficult to understand????
[/B]

If you are running from a fight, you don't get it anyway.  Why am I even talking to you about "fighting" when it's clear that you don't understand how to use the 190D9's strengths appropriately?  Speed is an asset IN a fight.  Let me repeat that... speed is an asset IN IN IN IN IN IN IN[/i] a fight, not just an asset when running from one.  Fighting does not just equal stallfighting, though stallfighting is a subset of fighting.  The Spit outturns you?  You blow on past, retain your E, extend a bit, reverse, and set him up using angles fighting or BnZ.  If things don't work out, you can continue to do this unscathed until either he's dead or you decide to exit the fight.

Quote
In any case I insist, you have not experience flying them or flying against them to say a single word about 190s except that u outurns any of them with your SpitV and any of them are faster than your SpitV, Shane has even less. And a "laboratory" environment like H2H is not MA.
[/B]

Wait a second... so just earlier you stated that the MA is 100% dogfighting.  So I go to a H2H "laboratory" where it's 100% dogfighting, and suddenly now that's not a valid exercise.  Of course it's valid, and the planes mixing it up there represented a nice cross-section of arena planes.  The Dora matched up nicely.

I also have more than enough experience with 190s to know how they stack up to each other and to other planes in the general planeset.  It's silly that you keep continuing this line of argument, when your own statements concerning anything but a 190 have been so riddled with inaccuracies, generalizations, and biases (remember how Spits guarantee the player a 0.0050 K/T?  That one was a hoot).

Quote
Perhaps this is new to you, but top speed is not a factor to be able to disengange and, of course, is not a factor to decide whether to engange or not. Top speed dictates very little if u compare it with acceleration and altitude.


Perhaps it's news to you, but top speed is an enormous factor in choosing engagements.  I can't believe you'd actually argue otherwise when evidence in the form of planes like the P-51 contradict you.  I do agree that acceleration and altitude can matter, but they are no more or less important than speed.  The La5 outaccelerates just about every plane in AH including the La-7, but it's relatively slower and handles very poorly when super fast.  As such, I don't consider the La5 as survivable as the D9, which features reasonable middle and high speed handling, a high top end, good acceleration, etc etc.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 01:34:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Yep, everybody knows that I get into the furballs at 500 mph trying to cross with an unaware green pilot :D


You and I both know you don't need to do that to get kills in a Dora.  In a confusing furball environment with just a little bit of speed going in, it could be a monster.  I wouldn't want to be in the ditches turnfighting a Hurricane in one, but it would perform admirably by flying its kind of fight.

Quote
Do you know what K/T is?
[/B]

Yes.  Now go check the stats on NathBDP, who almost exclusively flies the 190A8 low and slow on the deck in furballs.  He's got a K/T of 0.0035 -- better than just about every Spit driver I know.

Quote
And I bet that having same shape and colour you are unable to appreciate any difference between 190s. As I'm unable to see any differences between spits.
[/B]

Eh?  It's immediately easy to spot the differences between A-model 190s and the Dora.  The Dora sports a dark, greenish paint scheme with a long nose while the A-models are both gray with a squat nose.  The hard part is telling the difference between the A5 and the A8, which I can usually do by their actions or performance.

Spits are easy to tell apart.  The Spit IX has a gray paint scheme with a bit of color on the wings and wingtips.  The Spit V is brownish, while the Seafire has a more monocolor gray than the Spit IX.  I always know immediately which Spit I'm fighting after the merge.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Vortex on February 21, 2002, 01:47:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


By this criteria I consider the Dora easy relative to the A8 because it enjoys a number of key advantages including substantially higher top end speed and more stable handling.  It can control fights whereas the A8 cannot (at least for long).  If my virtual life depended on it, I'd choose the Dora over the A8 for its superior survivability.

-- Todd/Leviathn


I think that's a pretty fair assesment. I've flown both a fair bit and find the A8 far more challenging due to its greatly inferior turn (contrary to comments here, it is far inferior in this area. All that extra weight has an effect after all), speed, climb and WEP. The only planes I really fear when flying a D9 are 51's and La7's. Both are faster (for the most part) and defintiely handle far better. Actually the P51 is the big threat as its handling is leaps and bouinds better. La7's can be an even match depending on who's flying. A dweeb in a 51 can turn inside you though. Neverthless, against every other plane you can pretty much dictate when and where to fight, even if they have an alt advantage. That's a significant advantage.

If there's one area I do have problems in the D9 it is hitting stuff with the guns. I don't know why but by and large I can't hit a thing with this plane. I'll line up a shot similar to how I would with the A8 or A5, fire, and not hit a thing. That alone causes me far more deaths in this plane than I likelyt should have. Frustration takes over and I inevitably do something stupid.

Overall though I'd defintely agree. The D9 is no slouch (in the top 10 to be sure) and has a lot more things going for it than its little brother, the A8.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKSWulfe on February 21, 2002, 01:55:36 PM
I can sum up the last half of this thread in one single word:

roadkill.

The D9 has the power to retain energy in a turn better than the A8. Therefore, the D9 can turn inside of the A8 so long as it starts off at the same speed or better.

The A5 is slower than half the planes flown, therefore it is harder to kill and live in.

The A8 is fast, but you only got one or two turns before your toejam out of luck in the speed/energy department. THerefore it is very hard to kill a lot and live in.

The D9 is the fastest, and has superior turn speeds relative to the A8 at the same speeds. The power it has gives it the ability to extend from a fight should it need it. Therefore the D9 is the easiest to get kills and live in.

I've gotten to the point of seeing that Mandoble only has one agenda on his list and that's to ensure that people think being able to do well in the D9 is some kind of out of this world feat.

Hey man, it ain't... why do you think it's got a lower ENY value than both the A5 and A8????
-SW
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 05:04:18 PM
Eh?  It's immediately easy to ...

I was meaning with all the 190 modeled identically in 3D, same shape, same colours. Would u really differentiate A8 than D9 or A5 then? I, obviously, can differentiate between SpitV and IX, but for me both are the same plane.

Wulfe, A8 is more docile than D9, D9 more surveilable than A8, but killing with A8 is FAR more easy than with D9, due handling and due weapons, same for A5.

And based on ENY, Spit is uber compared to D9.

hey, no agenda at all here, I have maximum respect for A8 drivers too, and point is not into being able to fly well any 190, just to fly it.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: thrila on February 21, 2002, 05:39:57 PM
Based on ENY, the spit is uber compared to the D9?  I don't understand this statement.

Are you trying to say that the spit has a lower ENY than D9, is that it?  If you are, compare spitV ENY to D9 and notice which one is higher.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: NUTTZ on February 21, 2002, 05:47:33 PM
LOL, if it wasn't for the red Icon, i couldn't tell you what plane im fighting!

NUTTZ


Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Eh?  It's immediately easy to ...

I was meaning with all the 190 modeled identically in 3D, same shape, same colours. Would u really differentiate A8 than D9 or A5 then? I, obviously, can differentiate between SpitV and IX, but for me both are the same plane.

Wulfe, A8 is more docile than D9, D9 more surveilable than A8, but killing with A8 is FAR more easy than with D9, due handling and due weapons, same for A5.

And based on ENY, Spit is uber compared to D9.

hey, no agenda at all here, I have maximum respect for A8 drivers too, and point is not into being able to fly well any 190, just to fly it.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: midnight Target on February 21, 2002, 05:53:11 PM
There was a Western made a few years back called "The Diablo Kid". In it, the villian was asked why he had shot someone in the back. He answered, "well dammit, his back was TO me!"

"well dammit...his HEAD was TO me!":D
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKIron on February 21, 2002, 06:09:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Eh?  It's immediately easy to ...


And based on ENY, Spit is uber compared to D9.
 


Use of the ENY values probably not the best support for your argument Mandoble.

N1K2----10
LA7------13
Spit9----13
190D9--18
P51------18
Yak9U---25
Spit5----30

You do realize that the higher the number the more inferior HTC
considers the plane to be?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 06:18:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
I was meaning with all the 190 modeled identically in 3D, same shape, same colours. Would u really differentiate A8 than D9 or A5 then? I, obviously, can differentiate between SpitV and IX, but for me both are the same plane.
[/B]

If all of the 190s fielded the same model, I wouldn't find it terribly difficult to differentiate between the A-models and the Dora.  Like I said, the difficulty lies in differentiating between the A5 and the A8 since they perform relatively closer to one another than the Dora does to them.  It would be very easy to distinguish between an A5 and a D9.

Quote
Wulfe, A8 is more docile than D9, D9 more surveilable than A8, but killing with A8 is FAR more easy than with D9, due handling and due weapons, same for A5.
[/B]

The A8 is more docile than the D9?  No way.  It's got much nastier stall characteristics when slow, and it seems to bleed E a lot faster than the D9... meaning that it gets slow in a hurry and tends to stay there.  The A5 seems more balanced... it turns nicely, rolls well, and can surprise traditional stallfighters in a scissoring fight.  However, it's quite slow compared to the Dora, and its slow speed, like the Spit V, dooms it.  The A5 rarely possesses the ability to control or dominate a fight.  About the only things that the A8 has going for it versus the Dora are a marginally better roll and better armament.  If I were in a duel, and I had to choose between an A8 or a D9, I'd choose the D9.

Quote
And based on ENY, Spit is uber compared to D9.
[/B]

Compared to the Spit V?  The Dora is uber based on ENY.

Quote
hey, no agenda at all here, I have maximum respect for A8 drivers too, and point is not into being able to fly well any 190, just to fly it.


You claim to not have an agenda, yet you consistently attempt to (inaccurately) paint the A8 as an easier plane to fly than the D9 when this is not the case.  Since you fly the Dora, this reeks of your attempting to paint yourself as some ubermensch virtual pilot who, against all odds in the worst plane of all, manages to prevail.  What a load of BS.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apache on February 21, 2002, 06:20:54 PM
Instead of reading this whole thing, I thought I would make it simple on myself. Did Mandoble have a point or is this just another of his Axis High threads?
Title: Re: Re: Flying manners
Post by: Gixer on February 21, 2002, 06:22:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Czpetr



I still wonder why someone constantly feels the need to whine and comment about dweeb planes, dweeb rides, uberplanes and whatever. Why do you care what the others fly in? It`s not your bussines. You are not paying their accounts. This wacky discussions make me pretty sick.

Btw: those fighters were excellent fighters in real life, did you ever hear about that?  So it`s no miracle when they are good in AH too.

czpetr



Couldn't agree more!!!

And on the subject of chutes. I kill any chute I see that might be calling out friendly positions,base information etc.. As I know that's what I do when ever possible.


...-Gixer
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 06:31:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Apache
Instead of reading this whole thing, I thought I would make it simple on myself. Did Mandoble have a point or is this just another of his Axis High threads?


It started out as an Axis High thread and soon became a Mandoble is #1 thread.  Don't waste your time.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Animal on February 21, 2002, 06:32:25 PM
I cant believe someone who flies Dora and 109G10 believes the Yak9U is dweeby and disrespectful.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apache on February 21, 2002, 06:41:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


It started out as an Axis High thread and soon became a Mandoble is #1 thread.  Don't waste your time.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Thought as much. Thanks Todd.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: illo on February 21, 2002, 06:59:48 PM
AH Dora handles very well and is quite easy plane to survive in. One of best rides in AH IMHO. In dora one can do mistakes that would kill a8 pilot and live.

Anyway i think a8 is very good plane, but it needs more care and SA to stay alive in. Kill are more rewarding in it..so it's my choice.

just my opinion.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 21, 2002, 07:36:47 PM
ROFLOL, this is simply pathetic. How can somebody that has NULL experience flying a plane compare it with another one where he has also NULL experience, taking into account that he has fought both in very few ocassions and flying a Spit :D
It is really funny to read that one teaching the advantages and dissadvantages of planes that has never used in fight (oh! yeah! your H2Hs ROFLOL). Talk about the maximum dweebery of your hispanospitter if u want, but dont talk about something absolutely unknown for u.

And learn to read, ENY argument was of Wulfe, not mine.

For your info, my preferred ride has been always 190A8, even more than A5. D9 came as main ride with the La7 arrival. If any doubt, check stats at will. I have something to say about every 190, even F8, you have none.

In any case, this is a no-exit street. U may keep flying only spit and continue teaching about anything u wish, experienced players will have a really fun reading with your posts.

For the rest of readers thinking now that D9 is very easy to handle, go online and fight with it. Then pick up everything else, even A8 and compare. And remember, handling is not speed.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKIron on February 21, 2002, 07:56:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE

And learn to read, ENY argument was of Wulfe, not mine.
 


To whom are you addressing this comment Mandoble? This was your comment:

"And based on ENY, Spit is uber compared to D9."

I have to assume your talking about the spit 9 since it is 5 ENY points better than the Dora while the Dora is 12 points better than the Spit 5. The Dora is also 7 points better than the Yak9U. Just doing the math for ya.

By your logic 5 points makes a plane "uber" over another. Guess that makes the Dora more Dweeby than the Yak9U or Spit5.

I'm simply trying to follow your logic here. Please enlighten me.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 07:57:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
ROFLOL, this is simply pathetic. How can somebody that has NULL experience flying a plane compare it with another one where he has also NULL experience, taking into account that he has fought both in very few ocassions and flying a Spit :D
[/B]

First of all, as I've mentioned, I don't have "NULL" experience in 190s.  Second, I've had plenty of encounters with all sorts of 190s, Doras especially.  What you won't see in my stats are plenty of them killing me or me killing them, because the 190, not the Spit V, determines the fight.  Occasionally I manage to kill some who screw up, but usually I just avoid them until they pick easier targets.  Why is it so hard for you to understand this?

Quote
It is really funny to read that one teaching the advantages and dissadvantages of planes that has never used in fight (oh! yeah! your H2Hs ROFLOL). Talk about the maximum dweebery of your hispanospitter if u want, but dont talk about something absolutely unknown for u.
[/B]

You have no problems talking about the "maximum dweebery" of my "hispanospitter" despite almost "NULL" experience in them.  And I'd venture that I have substantially more experience in 190s than you have in any type of Spit.  The 190 is not absolutely unknown to me -- in fact I know it fairly well.  What's hilarious here is that everyone in this thread except you, including those who fly all types of 190s, agree with my assessments rather than yours.  Don't you find that peculiar?  Are you going to tell them to shut up too?  Why would they agree with me and not you?  Is it some vast anti-Mandoble conspiracy?  Or, just maybe, I'm right and you're not.

Quote
And learn to read, ENY argument was of Wulfe, not mine.
[/B]

Learn to write.  I'm not the only one to misunderstand what you were trying to say.

Quote
For your info, my preferred ride has been always 190A8, even more than A5. D9 came as main ride with the La7 arrival. If any doubt, check stats at will. I have something to say about every 190, even F8, you have none.
[/B]

LOL You are an arrogant little salamander, aren't you?  First of all, using your very same reasoning, this entire thread should never have occurred.  Who are you, having "NULL" experience in Spits, N1Ks, Yaks, and La7s, to write about how easy or difficult they are to fly?  Who are you to judge them at all when you know nothing about them?

You're right, you do have something to say about every 190, even the F8... unfortunately, most of it is either misinformed, wrong, or hopelessly biased to suit your own ends.  What's pathetic isn't that I list the flight properties of the various 190s despite less experience in them than you... it's the fact that my assessment of the 190s hits closer to the mark than yours despite your experience.

Quote
In any case, this is a no-exit street. U may keep flying only spit and continue teaching about anything u wish, experienced players will have a really fun reading with your posts.
[/B]

LOL

Quote
For the rest of readers thinking now that D9 is very easy to handle, go online and fight with it. Then pick up everything else, even A8 and compare. And remember, handling is not speed.


I did just that earlier today.  The A8 was substantially more difficult to handle than the D9.  The D9 was much more stable, much less likely to kick into violent spins, and overall what I would consider a better handling plane.  That, in addition to its speed, makes it formidable.  Others here have done exactly what you suggest and report results identical to mine, not yours.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Toad on February 21, 2002, 08:10:14 PM
Hey, Todd... I know you've heard this one:

“Never wrestle with a pig. You just get tired and dirty and the pig enjoys it.”

There's another good one too.....

"Never use a cannon to kill a mosquito."

Cya up there. You were right in your other post; there's better uses for our time.  ;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKDejaVu on February 21, 2002, 08:16:26 PM
Hey mandoble.. there's a really easy way to prove you are right...

fly a Yak and go 545:48 in it.  Film it so we know you're not simply vulching away.

Come on... I dare ya.

Hell.. you can even half it if you want... 222:24.

Yep.. should be pretty easy to do in such an uber plane for such a highly skilled pilot like yourself.

Till then.. you might as well shut up cause you're just making yourself look like a love muffin.

AKDejaVu
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Nath[BDP] on February 21, 2002, 09:02:14 PM
hi

Let me clarify something 1st, Mandoble is by far no where close to being one of the best LW pilots in AH. Incidentally, his refractory comments on the 190s are much less factual than Leviathn's--the latter's are very genuine. Leviathn doesn't need to fly the 190s 200 hours a month to notice the demeanors of the four models. I have dueled Leviathn in my varied aircrafts of choice, and in his. We can both fly any aircraft pretty much evenly and he is BY FAR a much better pilot in the 190s than Mandoble.

I consider myself and Leviathn both the most versed pilots in AH, and I can attest to the fact that we both can fly any plane in AH sucessfully--its a habit that comes naturally after playing this sim for 2+ years. I.E. I hardly ever fly the F4U, but after fighting them and flying them (at times) for so long, I can tell what they can and cannot do. Thus I have experience with them.

To type that someone doesn't have experience with certain planes just because their MA stats don't show them flying or gettting alot of kills of the aircraft in question, is weak rhetoric. I'm confident that Lev could destroy 99.9% of AH pilots 1v1 in any
plane of their choice. Point being, from a Pov of a person flying 190s since beta, Leviathn is a more viable and accurate source on aircraft characteristics than Mandoble.

Now onto the 190s.

I totally disquisition on Mandobles belief that the D9 is the most difficult aircraft to fly, and furthermore that the Spit is easier.

First of all, the A8 is the most challenging aircraft to fly in AH. This is true even if you are simply BnZing because you need to make your shots count and your energy used correctly. Constant up and down BnZing will eventually get you dead. Thus a pilot needs to be not too aggressive, but also not too unaggressive. One must learn to strike a perfect balance between these two extremes to be effective in the A8. As well as learn how to maneuver when at a disadvantage. The same is true for the SpitV especially, since one must be dutiful in that he can strike a perfect balance between shooting, evading, and maneuvering. Obviously the natural reflexes and skills needed to accomplish flying a SpitV greatly exceeds that of a D9. That is of course because you will always die faster in a D9 when faced with a disadvantage than the SpitV. Because of this, a D9 pilot will always use the vertical more than a SpitV pilot will, since his plane can out climb, out dive, out roll, out run, out zoom, the opposition. The tactics assosicated with flying the D9 in a way that won't threaten being shot down--takes very little skill as opposed to flying the SpitV.

The D9, therefore, is a machine that isn't neccessarily harder to fly, but easier to fight and get kills in.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hooligan on February 21, 2002, 09:46:56 PM
Nath I think your post was very perceptive.

Now if only somebody could explain to me how anyone could believe that:  "LW fighters are the best and LW fliers are the most skilled because LW fighters are the most demanding to fly."

Hooligan
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 21, 2002, 09:58:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Cya up there. You were right in your other post; there's better uses for our time.  ;)


hehe You are of course right, Toad.  Still, the gaping maw of Mandoble's ignorance calls out to me, begging for enlightenment.  It seems I can never resist such a challenge.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Toad on February 21, 2002, 10:41:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


...Still, the gaping maw of Mandoble's ignorance calls out to me, begging for enlightenment.  It seems I can never resist such a challenge.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Well, if you must.

Just hurry up and pack his BS back in the hole it came from, tamp it down and get back to playing the game.

;)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 22, 2002, 01:57:06 AM
WARNING : Swag at work

I've used the D9 as the dweeb I am and I noticed the following points :

Roll rate is to big for me (that's why I like the typhoon and the yak) it make me sick (motion sickness sorry ... :( )

Overall behaviour is fine (turning zooming ...) this kite is (swag again) fastest than the Yak and dive better.

It doesn't bleed speed as fast as the Yak (yet again swag at work) it recall me the Marianne or the Pégase (French glider)

In fact even if she's not sexy as the Yak I find it more or as survivable as the Yak
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2002, 02:18:40 AM
Thank you.

  I've seen a couple of people mention this now. I'm fairly new to AH and I'm definately not used to *it's* planes but primarily I've been flying the P47 with some excursions in the D9 and A8..

 I'm having an absolutely terrible time trying to hit anything unless it's completely still.  I've fallen to spraying =( in order to hit sometimes in absolute frustration and I've actually rammed planes trying to get close enough to where these bullets would not stray.

I've tried many different convergence settings and it just seems to be a sometimes they hit sometimes they fly sideways sort of deal.

Is there some setting that is missing here? are the bullets ricocheting off the end of the freaking barrel? It's truely frustrating and keeps me from playing the game very often.

in IL2 when I aim, at least some of the bullets come out straightish and then all I have to do is account for manuvering and drop..

in AH they seem to just wander whatever way they will.

 I've picked up some extremely bad habits so far but I just don't know what else to do except not play AH.

  As far as flying manners go, if I see someone trying to avoid the HO I look at the cost to me of letting them pass. If it may very well cost me my life, I nail em. If I have to yank around to hit them I'll usually use that to extend if possible.

  Sometimes I'll HO sometimes I won't...depends on how lazy I feel or how threatened I feel and what I have to work with at the time.

 If I'm avoiding a HO I depend on ME to avoid it.  If I fail I'm hit and rightly so. I do not expect the opponent to hold fire until we're lined up in a way that I find more appropriate.


 All in all it depends on the situation and my mood and if I know who the pilot of the enemy plane is or not.

As far as Uber rides go, I just do not have the experience to say.

 There is much to be said about flying a plane to it's strengths and so then making it an advantage and an easier plane to fight.

If you fight against your own plane you will lose and it will seem harder to you.

Kanth








Quote
Originally posted by Vortex

If there's one area I do have problems in the D9 it is hitting stuff with the guns. I don't know why but by and large I can't hit a thing with this plane. I'll line up a shot similar to how I would with the A8 or A5, fire, and not hit a thing. That alone causes me far more deaths in this plane than I likelyt should have. Frustration takes over and I inevitably do something stupid.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 22, 2002, 02:26:21 AM
Tonight I took the Mandoble Challenge and only flew the incredibly difficult 190D9 in the MA.

Twenty-eight kills and three deaths later, I surmise that he's smoking crack if he believes the Dora is even remotely close to the most difficult plane to fly in AH.  In fact, I'd rank it downright dweeby.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 22, 2002, 03:39:53 AM
DMF, "incredibly difficult" if very different than "the most difficult". U can pickup your spitV and go to k/d of 50/0 if you want. Yesterday I also picked up 190A8 and decided to not use it as jabo, 12/0 in a single sortie, does this demostrate anything?

AKIron, I insist, learn to read and check the last wulfe pots, mine was a reply to that.

Hey man, it ain't... why do you think it's got a lower ENY value than both the A5 and A8????

Nath, oh great AH eminence, very representative handling factors are two: stall speed and wing loading, check these numbers for A8 and D9. There is another one, roll rate, and the winner here is clearly A8. Then you may calculate corner speed, and dont be surprised if D9 corner is higher than A8. D9 is also longer and more nose heavy than A8, I'm not be able to do the hi AoA moves that I can do with A8, nor has the hi speed control that I have with A8. All these is handling, the rest is pure performance.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: straffo on February 22, 2002, 04:25:40 AM
I forget to add that the D9 as a LOT of ammo !
(compared to the Yak)

Concerning stall handling ... after the Typhoon it's just plain lovely :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Widewing on February 22, 2002, 08:28:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Tonight I took the Mandoble Challenge and only flew the incredibly difficult 190D9 in the MA.

Twenty-eight kills and three deaths later, I surmise that he's smoking crack if he believes the Dora is even remotely close to the most difficult plane to fly in AH.  In fact, I'd rank it downright dweeby.

-- Todd/Leviathn


That, I believe, concludes the lesson......

Geez... Todd, does this mean that I have to automatically assume that every SpitV and Dora is being flown by you??!!

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Flying manners
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2002, 09:54:47 AM
allow me to simplify...

mandoble is from spain and even creamo thinks the D9 is easy to fly.
lazs
Title: Flying manners
Post by: MANDOBLE on February 22, 2002, 10:24:19 AM
hehe Lazs, in Spain we use to understand what is written word by word, not just to "imagine" what is written.

"The hardest plane to fly" is not like "A difficult plane to fly". Being all the planes "easy" to flee, you have some ones being more difficult than others.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kieran on February 22, 2002, 10:34:39 AM
Quote
AKEagle, I'm flying an underused plane, and, in fact, what i consider the hardest plane to fight in and the hardest plane to fly. Fight is fight, not just to climb to 30k and keep at 450 mph all the time waiting for some AFK enemy to cross your gun sight.


Er, ok. Why not take a holiday and fly the 202? The TBF? Even the F4U-1A?

Funny how no LW plane ever makes your uber list... I'm beginning to agree with lazs, there should be a surcharge on anyone posting from Spain...

...course, nothing to get upset about. Anyone that could label Spit V's as perkable or Yaks as uber doesn't play the same game I'm playing anyway. Me, I took the Fw challenge and I'm ready for a cleansing shower. Never had so many easy kills so quickly- guess I better get outta the uber rides and find something more challenging...
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Vortex on February 22, 2002, 01:05:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Yesterday I also picked up 190A8 and decided to not use it as jabo, 12/0 in a single sortie, does this demostrate anything?


That vulching is the quickest way to trivialize any stat?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 22, 2002, 01:11:03 PM
I consider myself and Leviathn both the most versed pilots in AH, and I can attest to the fact that we both can fly any plane in AH sucessfully--its a habit that comes naturally after playing this sim for 2+ years.  NATH DTARD

Your waist is double-jointed? Wow.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Zippatuh on February 22, 2002, 01:23:40 PM
Pausing to provide help to a new AH flyer...

Quote
Originally posted by Kanth


...I'm having an absolutely terrible time trying to hit anything unless it's completely still.  I've fallen to spraying =( in order to hit sometimes in absolute frustration and I've actually rammed planes trying to get close enough to where these bullets would not stray.

 


Kanth,

It may be a problem with the way your joystick is set up.  I have heard a similar complaint from another new flyer.  The dead band and dampening fields were set too high as well as the calibration arc being way off.  See if you can hit one of the trainers up in the TA or if you see me online I can try and help.

It’s a lot easier to hit a moving target with fluid reactions from the controls.


We now take you back to the, whatever the hell this thread is…


Zippatuh
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKIron on February 22, 2002, 02:08:14 PM
Ah well, back to your original post Mandoble. Feel free to shoot my chute any time ya like, don't hurt a bit. Though you'll need to shoot my Yak first.:p
Title: Just wanna take the time...
Post by: Kieran on February 22, 2002, 02:11:13 PM
...to wave "hi!" to my good DoA friend, Kanthy. Good to see you!

If this is "the" Kanthy I think it is, look out, a new hotstick is here in the likes of Fester, Nath, Fishu and Leviathan. Many a time I saw her buried deep in doo-doo and come out alive with a handful of scalps.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 22, 2002, 02:50:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, "incredibly difficult" if very different than "the most difficult". U can pickup your spitV and go to k/d of 50/0 if you want. Yesterday I also picked up 190A8 and decided to not use it as jabo, 12/0 in a single sortie, does this demostrate anything?


It's possible that I could rack up a K/D ratio of 50:0 in the Spit V, but it would be much more difficult than doing it in a Dora.  Why?  Because the Dora possesses the very properties that lead to high K/D ratios... speed, handling, good guns with tons of ammo, long range, etc.

You told everyone to grab a Dora to see how difficult it truly was to fly.  I did so, and I conclude that it is, in fact, not hard to fly at all.  Then you come back by telling me that the plane doesn't really matter?  That I could have done the same in a Spit V or A8?  You're contradicting yourself.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Re: Just wanna take the time...
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 22, 2002, 02:53:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
If this is "the" Kanthy I think it is, look out, a new hotstick is here in the likes of Fester, Nath, Fishu and Leviathan. Many a time I saw her buried deep in doo-doo and come out alive with a handful of scalps.


Is this the Kanth formerly of AW fame?

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Yes
Post by: Kieran on February 22, 2002, 03:24:33 PM
If it is her, she was an AW trainer at one time, I believe. That is second-hand information, so you might know more about her than do I.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Nath[BDP] on February 22, 2002, 04:00:38 PM
Quote
Nath, oh great AH eminence, very representative handling factors are two: stall speed and wing loading, check these numbers for A8 and D9. There is another one, roll rate, and the winner here is clearly A8. Then you may calculate corner speed, and dont be surprised if D9 corner is higher than A8. D9 is also longer and more nose heavy than A8,

Quote
I'm not be able to do the hi AoA moves that I can do with A8, nor has the hi speed control that I have with A8. All these is handling, the rest is pure performance


Like I said, there's a pilot difference here. For me, these exiguous differences between the A8 and D9 do not phase me, the planes feel pretty much the same--except for the incontrovertible performance differences. This is obviously not the case for you.

And even if I did notice these things, the very wide difference in performance between the A8 and D9 would outweigh the D9's minor "handling" differences(yawn).

When you get better, perhaps then you can come here and argue with the likes of Leviathn--since what he feels is very different from what you feel in AH.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2002, 06:46:00 PM
Thanks Zippa,

 I have yet to do any stick scaling at all in any sim or make any adjustments for that matter but this is too frustrating.

I'll give the deadband and dampening a few tweaks and see what I can get.

Thank for the help, I was going (am going) outta my mind with it.

Kanth

Quote
Originally posted by Zippatuh
Pausing to provide help to a new AH flyer...
Kanth,

It may be a problem with the way your joystick is set up.  I have heard a similar complaint from another new flyer.  The dead band and dampening fields were set too high as well as the calibration arc being way off.  See if you can hit one of the trainers up in the TA or if you see me online I can try and help.

It’s a lot easier to hit a moving target with fluid reactions from the controls.


We now take you back to the, whatever the hell this thread is…
Zippatuh
Title: Re: Just wanna take the time...
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2002, 06:53:27 PM
Kieran, yep it's me =)
and Dead, yep, it's me =)

formerly of AW and of DOA =)
(and warbirds now)

(DOA required 6 letters for handle so came Kanthy)

Kieran I've looked for ya in the arena, I'll keep my eye out =)

Kanth'y


Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
...to wave "hi!" to my good DoA friend, Kanthy. Good to see you!

If this is "the" Kanthy I think it is, look out, a new hotstick is here in the likes of Fester, Nath, Fishu and Leviathan. Many a time I saw her buried deep in doo-doo and come out alive with a handful of scalps.
Title: Been working many hours lately
Post by: Kieran on February 22, 2002, 06:59:17 PM
I don't normally get done 'til late (10:30-11:00pm most nights), and I just don't feel like flying then. I will get out there soon, though.

What country are you flying? Or have you been on a tour? :)
Title: Re: Been working many hours lately
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2002, 07:30:20 PM
I've flown Knights and Bish so far, I really have no preference it just depends on who's flying where and who wants company really :)

I'm up for Rooks as well or whatever, I just generally wander around :)

I will keep my eye out for ya.

Kanth


Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
I don't normally get done 'til late (10:30-11:00pm most nights), and I just don't feel like flying then. I will get out there soon, though.

What country are you flying? Or have you been on a tour? :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kieran on February 22, 2002, 08:03:01 PM
Apache is a great wingman- I've had some of my best flights with him. Lazs is pretty good too, despite all the grief guys give him here. ;) They were flying Rooks last time I was on, but that has been about a month ago.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2002, 08:04:47 PM
Kay Rooks look like they get the most targets anyhow so I'll check them out =)

Kanth


Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Apache is a great wingman- I've had some of my best flights with him. Lazs is pretty good too, despite all the grief guys give him here. ;) They were flying Rooks last time I was on, but that has been about a month ago.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Vortex on February 22, 2002, 08:20:21 PM
Have a look here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13576) for some good tips on scaling your stick Kanth. Helped me out quite a lot when I started flying.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Kanth on February 23, 2002, 03:51:13 AM
Thanks Vortex, appreciate the help.

Kanth

Quote
Originally posted by Vortex
Have a look here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13576) for some good tips on scaling your stick Kanth. Helped me out quite a lot when I started flying.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hristo on February 23, 2002, 05:27:38 AM
Sorry Kanth, you don't qualify to this thread. Here you must express your opinions on planes and people who fly them. Something like "...pilot XXX sucks because he BnZs...", "...plane YYY stinks because it has long nose...". You should also add words like "boring", "dweeby", "un/skilled", "versed", "interesting", "owned", "retarded".... all in cause of good argument and self promotion :)


Mandoble, DMF, Nath, Creamo, pleaso go on. This is some funny stuff ;).



Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 23, 2002, 09:51:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo
Here you must express your opinions on planes and people who fly them. Something like "...pilot XXX sucks because he BnZs...", "...plane YYY stinks because it has long nose...". You should also add words like "boring", "dweeby", "un/skilled", "versed", "interesting", "owned", "retarded".... all in cause of good argument and self promotion :)
[/B]

Ah, Hristo has poked his head in to spout off inanities again.  You should know by now, Hristo, that I do not care what a person flies, nor do I care how he or she flies it no matter how boring that way of flying might be to me personally.  What I do care about is someone who makes false claims about the difficulty of one plane relative to others who then uses this "fact" to paint himself as "better" or "more skilled."  Skill is not a component of the plane one flies, and it's idiotic to suggest that flying a Dora... one of the easiest planes in AH to fly... somehow grants one greater skills than someone who flies Spits, Yaks, La7s, or N1Ks.

Quote
Mandoble, DMF, Nath, Creamo, pleaso go on. This is some funny stuff ;).
[/B]

Please mention Fishu again.  I get worried when I don't see him mentioned at least once in one of your posts.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: lazs2 on February 23, 2002, 10:25:51 AM
I allways like fighting leviathn..   I haven't seen these other guys.  
lazs
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hristo on February 23, 2002, 11:19:38 AM
Please, lower the post rate of the Toddbot!

It replies too quickly and too intelligently ! Couple of threads more and it will close itmself in a self admiring loop forever....
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Fatty on February 23, 2002, 12:02:43 PM
You girls really crack me up.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hooligan on February 23, 2002, 12:55:22 PM
Is this a good time to point out that the Dora should probably be perked.  It's high K/D merits it.  And HTC could add an unperked version of the Dora (minus the MW-50).

Hooligan
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Apar on February 23, 2002, 02:38:45 PM
Quote
Is this a good time to point out that the Dora should probably be perked. It's high K/D merits it. And HTC could add an unperked version of the Dora (minus the MW-50).


So that means the Spit is gonna be perked first, :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 23, 2002, 03:39:01 PM
The Nath thesaurus word of the day-

exiguous


Main Entry: ex·ig·u·ous
Pronunciation: ig-'zi-gy&-w&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin exiguus, from exigere
Date: 1651
: excessively scanty : INADEQUATE
- ex·ig·u·ous·ly adverb
- ex·ig·u·ous·ness noun

Quote
Like I said, there's a pilot difference here. For me, these exiguous differences between the A8 and D9 do not phase me, the planes feel pretty much the same--except for the incontrovertible performance differences.


I thought "incontrovertible" was equally as sad a stab at sounding smart. Maybe Badger stole his password?
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 23, 2002, 04:40:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo
Please, lower the post rate of the Toddbot!
[/b]

This from a guy who writes over two posts per day on average.  I post less than half that, and you're complaining about me?

I wonder what your contribution to this thread has been other than to pop in and try to take lame potshots at me.  Go on, prove me wrong about the anything I've stated about the 190.  And try to do it without mentioning Fishu.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Urchin on February 23, 2002, 05:44:42 PM
Cat fight?  :D.  

I'm a pretty decent 190 stick, I'd rank the 190s in this order.  

Easiest to 'fight' in (traditional mix it up style):

190A5, 190D9,190A8.  

Easiest to get kills in:

190D9, 190A5, 190A8.

Easiest to get the hell out of a fight in

190D9, 190A5, 190A8

The plane I'd want to be in facing 15 opponents:

190D9, 190D9, 190D9 :D.  

I think the D9 outturns the A8, I'm not absolutely positive though.  The A8 definitely 'feels' heavier and less nimble than the D9 though (the A5 is in a league of its own in that category).
Title: Hey creamo -
Post by: jimmy_____ on February 23, 2002, 06:56:36 PM
Time for a lesson in AH 101 with a few "big words" and their meanings.

Inadequate -  You.

Imbecility - You, when you post.

Achromatism - Your game play.

Tell you what you popsicle squeak.  You want to see who's the BIG BOSS MAN in this game, bring your bellybutton on.  You are adscititious in this game as far as anybody is concerned.  Step up squeak, show Nath and Leviathn who's boss.  Doubt you can.  Nobody can.  So i suggest you shut your noodlesucker and let the big boys talk on these boards.

jimmy_____
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Urchin on February 23, 2002, 08:10:41 PM
Lol... how to make friends 101?  Hell of a first post though, I'll give the guy that.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hooligan on February 23, 2002, 08:33:10 PM
Urchin:

I doubt it is their first post.  Probably Just a dummy account to say something they are embarassed to be associated with.

Hooligan
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Fatty on February 23, 2002, 08:34:43 PM
Kicked in the Jimmy!


This thread still cracks me up, keep it rolling.  How dare they accuse your plane of being easy to fly!
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hooligan on February 23, 2002, 08:38:17 PM
duplicate post.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Toad on February 23, 2002, 08:53:44 PM
Anybody been demonstrating their new found skill with a dictionary around here?  Nah... couldn't be.... must be a true new account.

:rolleyes:
Title: hehe
Post by: Kieran on February 23, 2002, 11:25:59 PM
With ya there, Toad. Who was it that stated you were "ostentous"? ;)

Anyway, you gotta know Creamo is sitting there with a great big smile on his face; his comment had just the desired impact. Really though, I never cease to be amused by those that think being good at a game makes them "big boys". The irony of course is they are precisely right. :D

Not aimed at anyone in particular (other than the AH stud hiding behind the "Jimmy" shades).
Title: Flying manners
Post by: funkedup on February 23, 2002, 11:49:07 PM
Creamo - shoots and scores!
Nath - Busted!
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Dead Man Flying on February 24, 2002, 12:03:18 AM
Geez, fellas.  Nath does not strike me as someone who would make a paper-thin shades account to attack someone in this way.  He'd just come right out and say what he thinks, as he's done countless times before without the assistance of an obvious proxy.

Put down the freaking pitchforks and torches already.  Sheesh.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Hooligan on February 24, 2002, 01:05:23 AM
Kinda agree with DMF.  Its true that Nath is certainly not shy about sharing.

Hooligan
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Nath[BDP] on February 24, 2002, 01:08:24 AM
I'll jump on the bandwagon here with a pablum:

Nice troll jimmy_____, you got 'em.

---------

I love seeing people's true demeanors.

jimmy_____ isn't me. Visit the link in my sig and you'll realize something AHBI.
(http://a1944.g.akamai.net/7/1944/1402/00102423011/images.barnesandnoble.com/images/3330000/3332370.jpg)

p.s. funked, when you gonna send me those Fw190A8 manuals? Been waiting forever.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: funkedup on February 24, 2002, 02:31:03 AM
Nath, Verm and I both said we would scan the manuals and put them in Acrobat, but we are lazy bastards.  Verm has the originals now so I blame him.  :)
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 24, 2002, 06:20:42 AM
"Bringing my bellybutton on" and "Seeing who is the Big Boss Man" does not sound appealin. I'll take yer word for it.

Someone is taping "OZ" on HBO and watching it, and watching it, and wearing that VHS tape out, and it ain't "Jimmy."

Plus eluding to a mouth as a noodlesucker when responding to a male is equally as disturbing, and hints again at a lifestyle I don't condemn, just don't practice.

Still, this can't be Nath, as he has never made a post and then responded to himself via a yahoo email account/new AH BBS moniker.

No wait...

heh, SWEET.

D- for  plagiarizing yourself.

See Kieren after class.
Title: Not putting my pitchfork down just yet
Post by: Kieran on February 24, 2002, 07:15:30 AM
The style, the content, the writing form- too similar. It's either him or someone has the act down perfectly.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: lazs2 on February 24, 2002, 09:31:00 AM
ok.. to sumarize..

mandoble is from spain... the D9 is so easy to fly that even creamo can fly it...  leviathn is fun to fight...  fluffs are gamey and the CT is a good place for guys who actually think that it takes skill to fly a LW plane.And........... sure as the sun rises in the East...  .eskimo will gather up the entire cast of last years village idiot convention to dissagree with me.
lazs
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 24, 2002, 09:45:46 AM
lol, it's so funny, I can actually post the forbidden 3 letters. it's true.

And yes, for all concerned, the Dora IS a huge crutch/beast of a fighter. There is no amount of ACM skill, ala hoopty tactical (add thesaurus tard word here) to make up for it Zooming like a P38, and then leaving like a P51. It is the best fighter in the set for average players. Perk it, don't, I'll just take the La7 if outta points, or to the MA's groan, a Spit.

However, as sure as Kbman will tell you why you shot him down, Mandoble lives near Ramasst, the Dora is a stable fast rail, I've never ever shot down DMF (true), but Eskimo will leave this obviousness alone.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKDejaVu on February 24, 2002, 09:45:56 AM
Wow.. absolutely zero relevant post on the entire 4th page.

Whatya say HTC... time to close this thread or what?

AKDejaVu
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 24, 2002, 09:54:14 AM
Sorry I exploded.
I'll get some Excel stats to fire up the masses, and be relavent all a sudden.


Title: Flying manners
Post by: AKDejaVu on February 24, 2002, 09:55:53 AM
Thankyou for putting an exclamation point on my previous post creamo.

AKDejaVu
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Creamo on February 24, 2002, 10:00:31 AM
That's my job.

Now stop refreshing this BBS link, Im trying to shoot down Tiffies in my Dora, and you causing a big lag.
Title: Flying manners
Post by: Cobra on February 24, 2002, 11:38:49 AM
I have a lovely bunch of coconuts.

Thank You and Goodnight
Cobra