Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: -sudz- on February 19, 2002, 05:21:29 PM
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Seems like as people get older the activities they used to be enthusiastic about become passe. In my youth the prompt/reply was like: Party? Hell yeah!, Road Trip? Let's go!, Chicks! Point the way!, Hang Gliding? Sounds cool!
Now it's: Party? who's going?, Road Trip? to where and with who?, Chicks? she's not a psycho is she?, etc. The pattern is obvious: as we become more experienced we become more aware of the possible downside of our participation. Well, no biggy. After all - only a fool doesn't learn from the past.
The philisophical questions it raises, however, are not so obvious:
- How much, if at all, does the re-occurance of this pattern affect our openess to new activities and experiences? Or, in other words, does Enthusiasm eventually die stillborn upon any suggestion of something new?
- Is a jaded (tempered) view the inevitable end of enthusiasm? common? dependent on the individual's view?
- Is enthusiasm even a valid approach to something new or is it something that gives spice to life and should be considered a human reaction, divorced from its consequences?
- Do I have too much time on my hands?
I have some thoughts on this but I'd like to hear from some of the more philosophically inclined out there.
- sudz
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Personally, I think as long as you are in awe of the universe and you enjoy an acceptable level of physical and mental function, it is more natural to be enthusiastic about your interests than not... and there are certainly interesting things all around us.
I think the key is "acceptable level of physical and mental function."
If you are not in total awe of "life" and the world around you, I do not believe that your mind is functioning at an exceptable level.
You can't be "on" all the time, but a person should be able to recharge and renew thier passion every day. Your thought processes might be pathological if you don't experience enthusiasm or enjoyment for a very long time. (Depression)
Physical disease can certainly put a damper on your enthusiasim for life... even to the point of wishing for death.
I've seen many old people who really don't care about anything. But they are not functioning normally as far as I'm concerned. I've also seen many who take great interest in what goes on around them. They might not have much enthusiasm for going night diving, or playing touch football, but don't get them talking about their grandkids. or how they saved 0.35 cents by driving across town to buy a pork roast!
So, I believe that to have enthusiasm = normal health state.
.02
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Wow sudz, very, very good post, among the best ever in this BBS.
Cant wait to get home and contribute.
-edit-
sorry.
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you learn conformity and moderation as you age, it's necessary to an extent, but it's the last thing you are taught by someone else.
once people attain that "adultliness" they tend stay there and stagnate- a better approach would be to decide as an adult what the right balance is. you've learned maturity now learn balance.
just stay agile that's all. :)
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You've learned the absolute truth in life. Alcohol will not cure everything.
But seriously, I put it down to experience. After years of experience in life you begin to learn that the superficial fun in something actually masks a lot of boredom and several unpleasant hangovers. A trip that would have set out on a few years back with no thought given will now make you pause and consider.
'What do i need to take, who is going? How much money will i need? Where will we stay?'
The memory of a horrible hangover each morning, having no money, travelling around in the same clothes for a week and sleeping in the car comes back to you when you're older. When you're young it sounds like a cool adventure. Now it sounds like fun, but you're more cautious. Perhaps a little jaded. Things are rarely as much fun as you dream them to be.
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No one gets out alive. What difference does it make?
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Yeah, values change.
While I wouldn't trade my past experiences (the past is necessary, after all), they're no longer that attractive. Why? well, shucks, I've already had those experiences.
I don't think you can say we necessarily lose our youthful enthusiasm; rather experience helps us channel it. If we've already had 20 similar experiences, why repeat?
Of course, the tendency is to become complacent. New experiences are sure as hell worth it; repeating the same old story, with minimal changes, now that's what I seek to avoid.
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Try doing something totally different, like Dinger said. You'll be surpised how quickly your enthusiasm returns.
Try a trip interstate or overseas. Go to a party with totally different people. Try not to overplan. Be spontaneous. Just go do it.
I was in my first big monsoonal downpour in Darwin a few months back and it was quite an experience. I found myself running around in the heavy, warm rain like a little kid. Of course I'd just drunk a few cold beers, but you get the idea. Something new can really liven things up.
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- Thank you, gavor, I agree with your advice. But the question was posed as an intellectual exercise and didn't stem from a personal quandry. (If that was the intent of you last reply.)
- Dinger, excellent point on channeling experience. It divorces the concepts of enthusiasm with enjoyment. The distinction is important.
- I'm sorry, easymo, the trip is sometimes more important than the destination. Ask Chaucer.
- gavor, your example about taking a trip is just what I'm talking about. But are all endeavours that ellicit enthusiasm superficial? Or are superficial fun endevours the only ones affected by experience?
- mrfish. Maturity and balance are something everyone should strive for, but could you expand on their ties to wisdom (experience) and enthusiasm (interest). I'd hate to think a specific instance of the human experience is merely a step toward a generalistic quatification of maturity.
- Animal, are you really an FDB? :)
- Gunthr. Interesting points. Could you explain a little on why being 'jaded' is considered not functioning normally? (not flaming, genuinely curious) I understand you in the sense that a fuel-injected car runs less efficiently when the fuel filter is clogged with 'bad experiences', but does a state of mind, like enthusiasm (and disenfranchisment), qualify as a brush stoke on the canvas of life or like a synthetic oil that make the machine run better. (I know I've taken liberties with your point of view - I await a better understanding.)
Keep it coming ya'll. I knew there were some critical minds out there and there are many yet to chime in. Keep in mind that I'm not asking for a general philosophy toward life but a specific analysis on the tabled question. A non-American view would be especially welcome, given the originator's potentially culturally biased wording. (Too many adverbs?)
-sudz
(edited for grammar and spelling, admittedly not well)
(edit 2 - god, i suck. What's this 'proofreading' thing anyway?)
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Its good to see an intellegent thread going on.
I wasnt trying to aim my suggestions at anyone in particular. The aim was to convey how I overcome that jaded feeling when faced with doing something. As you get older I believe you stick to a known quantity as much as is possible. This is your little comfort zone, from experience you know this zone contains just enough fun to keep you amused. To go outside this is to risk being bored.
The other point was about superficial fun. Something that you propose to do when younger seems like a lot of fun because it's unknown. Your imagination fills in the whole experience, invariably with good things. Naturally you'll get excited about whatever it is and rush off to do it. Now you're older you've got experience under your belt, you've done a lot of the conventional things like road trips, parties and girls. Its the same as if you ate the same 2 or 3 foods for years and years. You'd get bored of them no matter how good they were to start with. Now, how good would it be to have something new? Something you've not done before?
I'm thinking about the bad experiences thing as I've had a number over the years, but I dont have a hypothesis yet.
I'm from Australia, isn't that a non-American country :).
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Okay, now that I've had a couple sudz, here's the pompous-ass response:
Aristotle, at the beginning of the Metaphysics states, "All men by nature desire to know" [980a22]. According to the Philosopher, it is this force that drives us as rational beings.
The rest of this introductory chapter to Alpha elatton seeks to relate the smallest denomination of human knowledge, the individual human experience to the what he holds as the highest human endeavour, alternately called "first philosophy" or "wisdom" (sophia), and which has as one of its applications what we have since Andronicus of Rhodes' magnificent edition called "Metaphysics". So at the center of Aristotle's anthropology system lies this fundamental epistemological notion: that we, as humans have this innate, undeniable drive to marvel at that which we cannot understand. Aristotle roots all human knowledge in an this initial act of wonder: the desire to give meaning, to comprehend basic sense phenomena is what underlies all human activity. More than that: this scientific striving is the essential activity that defines humanity.
The fundamental problem, of course, is noetic: according to the same text of A:1, wonder establishes the basis of experience, and multiple experiences (emperiai) lead to scientific knowledge (episteme) of the principles. But scientific knowledge itself functions discursively, deducing from the principles to the conclusions. In what way does this inductive principle function? Aristotle is disappointingly silent on this most salient issue, asserting only that the intellect (nous) somehow extracts the principle from the body of experience. Worse, the relationship between intellect and wisdom, the architectonic science per antonomasia, seems minimal: the truths of first philosophy, such as the principle of non-contradiction, are arrived at rhetorically.
The hell if I know the answer. Yet I would maintain that for the last 2500 years of our stinkin' western tradition, wonder, and the youthful enthusiasm that drives us to do really stupid things, has been recognized by mainstream philosophers as essential to human nature; nay, it is the description we attach to being human, for outside of our capacity to wonder (=enthusiasm) and to know the true nature of being (=wisdom derived in some way from experience), we are but brute animals. Wisdom, thus sudz, is not the death experience, but its highest expression, and in fact, the highest expression of humanity. As Harry would say, "you wanna know what you're soul is? It's rock-n-roll baby!"
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expaaaaand? why c'ertainly. :)
"The pattern is obvious: as we become more experienced we become more aware of the possible downside of our participation"
my point was that these 'consequences' are largely social constructions and are relative to your age. what is the downside? apprehension of some real consequence or is it always relative to societal expectations?
example: you want to go on a road trip with no definite plan. when you are 17-18 years old no one has much for you in the way of expectations, you don't probably have a mortgage etc so there isnt much consequence. no one really judges etc its just kind of expected for you to try new things and go new places.
if you are 30 and you want to go on that same road trip, your boss, your wife and your landlord will immediately ask you if you are feeling ok.
my position is that we are conditioned to act a certain way (trained how to be 'mature') and that our actions have to match those expectations or we suffer consequences. ( and not that the consequences are 100% reactions based on experience but often originate at society and point in at us)
a certain maturity is expected of you at 21, at 31 etc etc.
i interpreted your post to (rougly) say: " we do these dumb or trivial things enthusiatically when we are young but we get burnt so we become cautious and unenthusiastic and resistant to new experiences "
i think that's part of it but look at the process of becoming mature:
i remember sitting in my apartment one day when i was a young adult and inviting my parents over for breakfast. i did my best to seem in control, calm, sober and confident. they responded with praise. all of society did - "oh look how civilized how mature! he goes to work every day and pays rent etc etc what a great guy..."
a few months earlier loved ones were calling each other trying to find out if i was still alive or not. i got NO praise then from family friends or society then - in fact i got constant signals that my lifestyle was scary and that doesnt inspire enthusiasm.
now later that night one of my friends came over to see my new place with a massive pile of cocaine and said 'lets get high and go clubbing!'. i knew i had to work the next day, i knew if i did what he had i'd end up spending my meager salary to buy more etc etc. so i said no.
it wasnt fear of the hangover or lack of enthusiasm for the proposition or whatever - it was fear of losing my status as 'mature person' as defined by society en masse by screwing everything up. when i saw my 'party-n' friends in the future i scoffed at their lifestyle and teased them, not because i really disapproved, but because i knew i had to avoid being associated with that lifestyle by others to keep my newfound position in society (ya know, as a member:))
you are rewarded for joining society and punsihed for resisting its norms. i think the lack of enthuiasm comes from the possibilty of losing this status as much as any fear of actual consequences.
in summary, i dont think it is our past experiences alone that make us measured, jaded and unenthusiastic. i think we feel the need to purposely become jaded, measured and enthusiastic as outward signs of maturity. it is a lot more comfortable than the unknown and the enthusiasm it brings.
example: now you are older you see some chick at a bar flirting with you- but instead of hitting on her, the football game on the bar tv actually catches your attention and completely diverts it for a few seconds.
is it because women arent as new and fascinating? because you have seen the bad side of them? or is it because as a graduated mature man you should be distant and are now practiced at it? anyone who is eager comes off like a kid right?
i remember kirk douglas, the duke, newman, steve mcqueen etc - they didnt give a damn about any woman, the women fell all over them. to me, you knew you were mature when you got to be like that not stuttering and chasing them.
- Is a jaded (tempered) view the inevitable end of enthusiasm? common? dependent on the individual's view?
no. the trick is to step out of the mainstream a little and forget what you've been 'learned' about being mature. after considerable practice you can seperate yourself from the masses and live relatively free. that was my bit about balance. (the illusion of maturity and fear of social rejection define your hesitance more than actual consequence- redefining your expectations about where you want to be in society negate those fears and promote enthusiasm.)
- Is enthusiasm even a valid approach to something new or is it something that gives spice to life and should be considered a human reaction, divorced from its consequences?
enthusiasm seems to lie at the threshhold of uncharted territory. if you feel you are recovering ground youre not going to be enthusiastic. if you arent making new ground for yourself then dont expect to feel enthusiasm all the time. if you are looking for a spark by covering the same old ground the you are spinning your wheels.
hmmm i wonder if i even answered your question somewhere in there - maybe not. :)
theres a lot of answers really, i think this is kinda relative to your existence, but anyway theres something to consider.
i embrace an existentialist worldview, so to me society is being created everyday and the final product is up to us. its all uncharted territory and no problem at all to stay enthusiastic.
its no coincidence that i am enthusiastic about 'new things' and not 'the same old things' - its more of a condition. at least the type of enthusiasm youre talking about.
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over the years I have read up on most of the more prominent religions. Also, the better known Philosophys (Although Shakespeare is not thought of as a philosopher. He is still my favorite). In the end. None of them gave you enough information to make a choice. If I chose, with my luck, I would choose the wrong one. Nietzsche believed we were doomed to live the same life over and over. And, I have read sientific theory, that when to universe has expanded far enough. It will begin collapsing back on it self down to a pin salamander. Then explode all over again. Some belive we will live our lives backward and forward as a result. Maybe Nietzsche was right.
I decided long ago that all I know from personal experience, is that we wind up dead. To me that means I don't live my life to suit other people. I figure your dead a really really long time. Why waste what you have.Do what you please, as long as you feel that its right. And don't let anyone take your freedom away from you. Or anything else that has value for you. What you do makes no difference in the end. Your still going to wind up dead.
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LOL Easymo, my dad used to say that all the time. "If you want to do something, do it now because when you are dead, you're gonna be dead for a long time." When he died, I'd wished he hadn't said that. But its true.
- Gunthr. Interesting points. Could you explain a little on why being 'jaded' is considered not functioning normally? (not flaming, genuinely curious) I understand you in the sense that a fuel-injected car runs less efficiently when the fuel filter is clogged with 'bad experiences', but does a state of mind, like enthusiasm (and disenfranchisment), qualify as a brush stoke on the canvas of life or like a synthetic oil that make the machine run better. (I know I've taken liberties with your point of view - I await a better understanding.)
Sudz, I may have been hoisted by my own petard (Hamlet:)). If you think of enthusiasm as a function of health, its obvious that our energies and physical capabilities diminish as we get older. Exitement and interest in things around us, it follows, will diminish as well, because it requires energy. I concede that, barring trauma and disease, it is natural to get older. Therefore, diminishing enthusiasm as we get older could be considered "normal" in the biological sense. If we extrapolate this to other mammels that are in a state of advancing age, it is obvious that this is true (ie, my old cat that sleeps almost constantly).
The pathological state of depression of course is different in that the flat affect and general lack of interest and enthusiasm is due to something other than advancing age.
But what if a person could live as long as he wished, in a perfectly healthy body? I think the longer we live, the more sated we might become, having had so many experiences again and again.
*I remember clearly when I was a 5 year old kid and my mom was telling me how wonderful it will be to be in heaven with God for all eternity. I was very disturbed at the thought of being in heaven with God for all eternity, and I told my mom so. I didn't want to do it, and I hoped that God wouldn't make me do it, because I didn't want to keep on doing ANYTHING over and over and over for all eternity (that eternity thing really threw me)!
But who really knows what kind of spiritual outlook could develop in a person who lives forever? But, as Easymo observed, its moot.
If you think of enthusiasm as a function of experience, it also seems natural that, given our "desire to know", once we actually do "know", we won't be as driven "to know" in that particular subject whether it be chicks or flying, or geography.
Nevertheless, I think that if you are physically and mentally healthy, there are always more things to be interested in and enthused about. Something just tells me that humans are meant to be enthused about life... for a while.
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Heh, let's create a logical argument. Not suggesting this is true: but it is a nice exercise. Maybe it'd be good to construct all whines in AH this way :).
Proposition, or statement. This is a statement that is either true or false, for instance 'humans have a common ancestor with apes" or "rocks can be used as weapons". Can be either asserted (as in 'this statement is true') or denied ('this statement is false').
In this case:
Proposition
Wisdom and experience will quell enthusiasm. This is an asserted proposition.
Premise. Also called assertions. Used to take the argument further, and are the basisfor accepting the argument as true. The people involved in the discussion need to agree on the premises.
The premise in this case:
Greater knowledge leads to a better understanding of eventual consequences and of what is involved in partaking in the subject of discussion, as well as more knowledge about what is expected.[/b] For example, the first time you go skiing, you have little idea of the mechanisms used to slow down, or the problems that are involved.
Inference. Used to get further propositions, upon which one can get a conclusion. These propositions can then be used to infer stuff, and so on.
In this case:
Inference: this implies that it'll naturally dampen the enthusiasm - enthusiasm can in part be linked to the mystery of 'just doing it', with little regards of the consequences or eventual problems.
The better understanding is not limited only to risks - but also to expectations. Knowing an approximation of what will happen can dampen enthusiasm, since the unknown is part of some things that one enthusiastically look forward to.
Propostion 2 Doing something many times will lead to it becoming boring.
Inference this implies that if something is boring, one will not be so enthusiastic about it.
Conclusion
This will lead to the only conclusion: experience and knowledge naturally dampen enthusiasm
Heh, fun exercise, even if this argument is false, due to some premises that are conveniently omitted, and inferences of dubious nature.
Philosophy majors: just going through this from what I remmeber. It is quite possible that I've forgotten something about everything. Still, is fun to make (or try to) a logical argument.
Putting all this BS aside: I do think age and experience tend to diminish enthusiasm in general, for the aforementioned reasons. of course, with some stuff, knowing more about it means ya get more enthusiastic about it, which is why my argument is false, or just partially right (which logically I think, is sort of impossible: either it's right or it ain't.)
Am finding that I am enthusiastic about less and less things nowadays. Few things can arouse enthusiasm, but those that do I am very enthusiastic about, like rock clmbing, skydiving etc.
I dunno. Age changes everything. You grow fat, your body starts to decay, the mating game isn't as important, you lose your sense of immortality and yes, as you grow experienced, you know more things, you recognize patters, and it's hard to be enthusiastic about a thing (r somethign very similar to that thing) that you've already been enthusiastic about before.
Just my 1DKK (no here for a bit).
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You guys are trying to make philosophical arguements over certain facts of life.
Party, Party, Party was my motto for most of my young adult life. But where did it get me? At age 25. with a toejamty poli sci degree I found myself without money and essentially without prospects. It was time to grow up!
Enthusiasm for partying was therefore replaced by enthusiasm for personal success and a rewarding career.
As age began to creep up it became obvious that years of partying had taken their toll. Hangovers after over indulgence became significantly worse the older I got.
Enthusiasm for waking up and comparing puke stains with my roomates was replaced by enthusiasm for feeling pretty damn good in the morning.
At age 32 I began to take a long hard look at whether or not I would ever find my perfect mate. Not that I had any women problems...I got more popsicle than most of friends had hot meals while in university....more, would I ever find my "soul mate".
My girlfriend got pregnant....I didn't want my children growing up without a father, so we got married.
Enthusiasm for getting laid was replaced by wanting to find the "right woman", which was then replaced by wanting to be a good father to my kids.
As the years have gone by my enthusiasm for life has not diminished in any way, it has merely changed and adapted to meet the demands that have been either thrust upon me, or that have become more important.
And, by the way...my enthusiasm for my wife who got pregnant about 3 years ago has grown to the point that I am beginning to think there is such a thing as destiny. We ARE soul-mates!
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Active intelligent mind cannot be at rest.
As you get bored with the old activities, you search for the new ones. You may be more discrminating in what evokes enthusiasm because you can tell that many activities are really "same old...".
miko
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Animal, check your language.
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SpaNK tHe MoNkEy
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Originally posted by Yeager
SpaNK tHe MoNkEy
(http://www.arrowcomics.com/Images/5%20in%20Cover%20Spank%20the%20Monkey%201.jpg)
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maturity and responsibility
it has nothing to do with the fact that my 43 year old body can't handle it all like my 20 year old one did :)
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What the hell is this drivel about Sudz?!?!
Stop it and get back to making more HellFire dammit!!! :)
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Curval hit the nail on the head. Enthusiasm doesn't go away, it just gets redirected. Many of those activities we participated in as youths may only be fun when filtered through the memory sieve.
I fondly look back on too many close calls and crazy experiences, that I would never ever want to repeat.
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StSanta, nice dissection of the logical argument.
"of course, with some stuff, knowing more about it means ya get more enthusiastic about it..."
- Santa
You are correct, of course,but consider this:
A medical specialist can be defined as someone who knows more and more about less and less, until finally, he knows everything about nothing. :p
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Hehe Gunthr, the germans have a general term for that: fachidiot.
I dunno Santa, your analysis of the "it gets boring" argument is faulty.
The assumption is not "doing something repeatedly induces boredom." For an appeal to sex (which most of us don't seem ever to get bored with) disproves that case.
Sure, this is a UBB discussion, so we like to be brachylogic. I would say the full argument here is the following:
assumption: Enthusiasm stems from anticipation of the reward for a given activity. (Dude let's go to a party and get loaded, who knows maybe get laid)
When the range of the reward (dude, who knows, maybe I'll end up in a 3-on-1 with the Swedish bikini team) and the value of the reward (dude, getting loaded is the best thing out there) are known with less precision, it is possible to have greater enthusiasm than if the range and value are known with more precision (=jaded: Dude, if I get laid, it's gonna be either A: with someone who has an unsatisfactory appearance/body odor B: with someone who has a host of phsychological problems or C: with someone of a sex and/or core gender identity that I find undesirable; Dude, getting loaded just means I'm gonna spend another sunday wiping the puke off the floor.).
What that means is that enthusiasm, the anticipation of the reward, should remain constant throughout life, but should be directed with greater precision towards its maximal hedonistic potential. Likewise, in some cases, knowing more about the nature of the reward does increase enthusiasm in some cases. Take Art Openings, for example: who'd go to one of those snooty things? Wait a minute; Free food, free booze, you're actually encouraged to rant about the crap someone's slathered on the walls, babes, what's not to like?
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What if at a very young age, you already lost all enthusiasm.
And you can only get it back in strange occasions or force it for very, very short bursts doing outrageously dangerous stuff?
Does it mean you are depressed, or just hard to please?
I am 19 and everything is very pointless to me.
Oh well, I'll go back to my job so I can earn money and buy stuff I dont need. Those new speakers and digital cameras are sure to fill that big gap in my life and bring back joy.
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Animal, you might be depressed. What happened to flying lessons? You were going to do that weren't you?
What happened to school?
What happened to that good looking girlfriend of yours? Can I have her phone number if you are unable to give her the proper attention?:p
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School was put on hold until I get a few things straightened out.
I still fly, though not as much as I would like to; mostly due to time, but I blame my lack of motivation for everything.
And my girlfriend, or should I say, ex. I dont know how she'd react to a call from a stranger who heard about her on a fligh sim bbs. Probably call the FBI.
I feel a lot like that guy Edward Norton plays in Fight Club.
Maybe I am depressed, but I dont like psychiatrists. They just ask you questions and look at some table and compare your answers. Then they pump you with medications accordingly. I dont feel myself depressed as in being thinking of death and sorrow all the time. I am just not happy, nor sad. Like a robot very emotionless, and numb.
How different is depending from prozac or lithium, than depending on alcohol or other drugs.
I may spend the rest of my life living in conformity waiting for some spiritual revelation or midlife crisis.
Or I may choose to self-destruct myself gradually like I used to, but even that isnt as fun anymore ;)
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My experience:
Boredom can bring on depression.
Challenging one's self to something out of the ordinary (School to furthers one career, skydiving, sheep, whatever...) can cure boredom.
In other words, taking yourself out of your comfort zone can be fearful as well as exhilarating. And boredom no longer plays a role, until of course, you become comfortable in that new zone. ;)
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Yeap thats the problem.
In order for me to be happy, I have to be a damn "free spirit" jumping from women to women, living in a different place and form every two months, scuba diving in very unsafe places, leaving my house without notice and living on the rain forest for a week, or just driving around the island until I find some place to sleep.
I love aviation, but Cessnas and Pipers get boring. And there are no aerobatic planes here, so thats why my interest in flying has been fading away.
Maybe Ive tried so many things that I get very easily bored with normal stuff now.
I should start thinking global..
Anyways I talk of my experience to prove that you dont have to grow old to loose enthusiasm. It happens even to the young, beautiful and virile.
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Animal, having children of your own takes you out of your "comfort zone" daily. Never bored here. :D
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Hehe, NO WAY.
I rather have a dog for now.
No one will put me in jail if it dies.
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LOL, thats funny Animal.
"Carry on my wayward son,
There'l be peace when you are done." :)
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Well, looks like the input is dying off so I'll post my take on the question.
Enthusiasm is a special case of Interest - you can be interested in something without being enthusiastic but you can't be enthusiastic without also being interested. What's more, enthusiasm is a measure of positive interest (you can be very interested in the grizzly bear charging at you but saying you're enthusiastic about it would probably be pushing it).
OK, then, enough with the definitions. Wisdom and experience fit into this picture by altering your interest level. It doesn't always have to be a dampening effect, either - sometimes it can increase your interest. To illustrate, let's take the road trip example:
No Wisdom:
"Let's go on a road trip!" - "Yes!! I'll go!"
Experienced:
"Let's go on a road trip!" - "With who?"
"Halley Barry" - "Where to?"
"Las Vegas" - "I've no money . . ."
"She's paying for everything" - "What's the ride?"
"Souped-up HumVee limosine" - "What about my wife and kids?"
"Your wife is taking the kids to visit your mother-in-law" - "Yes!!, I'll go!"
Experience doesn't eliminate enthusiasm or necessarily curtail it. The appearance that the older you get the less enthusiastic you get is more due to the fact that you've probably already done the easily available activities. The stuff that would now interest you is unfeasible due to practicalities (like a trip on the space shuttle) or obligations (can't, wife forbids skydiving). It's up to the indivdual to find new things, rare though they might be, and be able to feel enthusiasm more frequently.
Thank you all for tossing in . . .
-Sudz
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Yeah I guess you are right.
That explains why old people are not "cool" except for rock stars, and thats because they are stupid.
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Older people not cool?
Maybe you oughta go seek some out.
My Great Uncle was stationed in the Aleutians during WW2 and decided to stay. He still walks down to the coast and picks his own Oysters. He's 85 and could kick my ass. He has the greatest stories and loves to tell em. He is very cool!
My Great Aunt just celebrated her 90th birthday. 2 years ago she went on a cruise up the Amazon, 1 year ago to Fiji. She just graduated from a junior college art program last August. She bought her own home by herself (without a man's help) in 1937. Definitely ahead of her time, and very cool. I hope I have half of her energy at the age of 90.
Maybe we should be asking how these few active older folks kept up the fight for life, instead of assuming that it always goes away.
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You sound a little directionless Animal and I really dont have any advise. I'm sure you dont want me telling you what to do but I can say at your age I was doing something very similar. I spent a lot of years not knowing what I wanted to do and getting bored with everything I did. I still dont know what I want to do. Well actually theres so many things I want to do and be that I just cant decide on one so i end up doing none.
Over analysing things like enthusiasm and experience is fun but ultimately futile. The solution is just to go do things, out of 10 things you try, maybe you'll enjoy 2 or 3.
Go travelling. My gf and I were getting bored here in our home town and our jobs so she quit to study, I took up a correspondance course and we've set a date to fly out of this hole and live somewhere up north. Then we'll go travelling overseas, maybe ill be able to make it to some AH get togethers :).
Where's this essay going? Hrm. Not sure. I guess I'm just trying to demonstrate that the world is full of interesting things as long as you're prepared to leave your jaded self at home and make your own fun.
And on a quick note to your post Target, I've always said that at 80 or 90 I want to live a better life than I am now. Maybe a bit slower, but im determined not to waste my old age hanging around for the relatives to visit once a month.
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Regarding enthusiasm, I'm reminded of a fellow that I spoke to after he had left a local "swinging club", which was the source of endless speculation among my associates and me.
I asked this 30ish, obese dude what he had been doing in the swingers club.
He said, "Oh you know, just drink, watch dirty movies, relax and have sex and stuff."
I asked him what the women were like in there.
He answered, "Oh, theres all different kinds, they're friendly. You can ask them if they want to have sex, but if they say no, you have to leave them alone."
"Oh. Did you have sex with a woman in there?"
"Yeah, I did."
"Was she there alone?"
"No. Her husband brought her."
"Where was he when you were having sex with his wife?"
"Well, he was right there."
"That didn't make him mad?"
"Oh no, he encouraged us."
"Do you mean that some other guys were having sex with her too, while her husband watched?"
"Yeah."
"Did she like it?" (read, was she enthusiastic?)
"I think so, her husband said she liked it."
"What do you mean?"
"Well, she was crippled."
"Huh?" "She was crippled?"
"Yeah. She was in a wheelchair."
"But she couldn't talk?"
"Well, she was like retarted, too."
"And you guys all had sex with her in front of her husband?"
"Well, yeah."
"How do you know that she wanted to have sex with you guys?"
"Well, her husband said she liked it. He could tell. Plus, she was making noises too, kind of grunting, so ..."
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Because I wondered how "enthusiastic" the female was, the matter was investigated. It was determined that no crime was committed. :) End of story. This place is still in business today.
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wierd.
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i was being sarcastic.
Originally posted by midnight Target
Older people not cool?
Maybe you oughta go seek some out.
My Great Uncle was stationed in the Aleutians during WW2 and decided to stay. He still walks down to the coast and picks his own Oysters. He's 85 and could kick my ass. He has the greatest stories and loves to tell em. He is very cool!
My Great Aunt just celebrated her 90th birthday. 2 years ago she went on a cruise up the Amazon, 1 year ago to Fiji. She just graduated from a junior college art program last August. She bought her own home by herself (without a man's help) in 1937. Definitely ahead of her time, and very cool. I hope I have half of her energy at the age of 90.
Maybe we should be asking how these few active older folks kept up the fight for life, instead of assuming that it always goes away.
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Philosophy is triple-ply Charmin instead of a handful of leaves.
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There is certainly a corelation between the two.
Wisdom has granted me enthusiasm for things that in the absence of wisdom..I took for granted.
Like wise wisdom has cured my enthusiasm for things that in the absence of wisdom I over valued.
Enthusiasm is not gone. It is more wisely directed I think.
Anyone that is a parent will understand what I mean.
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My dad taught me a trick when I was young. Fake it. Even if you feel little enthusiasm, act as if you do . This will cause the people around you to become enthusiastic. You will eventually get caught up in there enthusiasm and become genuinely enthusiastic. I know it sounds weird. But it works.
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Its hard for me, I'm not the faking type, I could do it for a few minutes, but not convincingly for long.
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Its called the end of teen years crisis. You dont know if you've done enough with your younger years and you dont know what you want to do with your older years. Believe me, you've got plenty of time. Don't waste it &$*# arsing around. Just go and do some new stuff. If you dont like it, *(#& it off and try something else.
Dont listen to old people, if you make one wrong decision you wont suddenly find yourself 50 and working the same job as you did at 20. The future also holds some cool stuff, specially in medicine and technology. Read up on it, get excited about the future.
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I think I'll just go to australia and live as a crocodile hunter, having many wacky adventures with the friendly animals.
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Come on over, theres enough adventures for everyone! You'll be in stubbies, singlet and thongs within a week. Drinking VB in 2 weeks and fishing for barra with an esky of piss in a month.
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This thread is kind of depressing. Many viewpoints from different people at different stages in their lives... I know I most likely will not have the same experiences as those mentioned in earlier posts, but the flow of enthusiasm (the dips and peaks) will be generally the same. I have my whole life ahead of me and the thing is.. I dont want that!
Sure the old farts.. or old experienced farts ;) explain their stories saying "have a kid! no boredom here!".. I dont want kids!! I'm skeered they'll turn out like me. "pursue a new interest! force yourself! no boredom here either!" Where's my motivation if that turns into an endless cycle of boredom, interest, boredom, interest... I mean sooner or later the fire's gotta dwindle a bit.. what happens if nothing motivates you? Just living day to day worked for me.. reading this thread and analyzing my life-to-be doesn't make everything seem as spiffy anymore.
Heh, after reading this I realize I just took the complete opposite side I normally would take... I know exactly the direction I want to go once I'm on my own... who knows, nothing is in stone... yet.
:confused: :mad:
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A great truth is revealed, answering many questions that have plagued mankind: Everyone is different.
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Octavious how old are you?
Do you wake up saturdays with the stench of booze, sex, and death, not even knowing where you are and why do you have a headache?
No?
Then you are not yet in college ;)
Hey man, dont worry about the future, cause it doesnt exist. Just try to live for the moment.
I whine a lot about life, but its just that: pointless whinning.
I think the only way to have a great future is to stop worrying about it, and play your cards right in the present.
There are always peaks and falls, after you get older, those peaks are harder to reach; but you are also stronger.
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Heh Animal, I feel for ya.
Perhaps you and I are very much alike in some regards. When I turned 20, I was in the exact same position as you were. Bored with life, the universe and everything, my days were spent thinking out plans to get laid and how to do stupid things just for the fun of it.
The more dangerous, the more fun. I had this knowledge (false as it turned out) that whatever I did, it would be there to give me a thrill, and although potentially dangerous, it'd never(^o
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Originally posted by Animal
Octavious how old are you?
Do you wake up saturdays with the stench of booze, sex, and death, not even knowing where you are and why do you have a headache?
No?
Then you are not yet in college ;)
[/b]
Yes and yes, excluding the death part. I'm 17 and the roller coaster is just beginning for me. I do know what you mean to a certain degree. I'm saying everyone has ups and downs during these times and the severity differs from person to person. College is right around the corner.. I have three older siblings (and many friends) already in that situation. I've experienced that first hand many a saturday. I know I can't fully understand it until I experience it first hand, but I have a good idea so far.
Hey man, dont worry about the future, cause it doesnt exist. Just try to live for the moment.
I whine a lot about life, but its just that: pointless whinning.
I think the only way to have a great future is to stop worrying about it, and play your cards right in the present.
There are always peaks and falls, after you get older, those peaks are harder to reach; but you are also stronger.
I agree 100%. Thats my normal routine. Live day to day, tackle obstacles as they come along. I knew last night after I submitted my first post I'd have a different feeling today and that someone would point out my stupidity (or ignorance? same thing .slap oct :D). My outlook changes all the time.. heh perhaps I'm bipolar to some extent. Anyway.. I feel I have things under control for now and I know theres more than enough out there to keep me enthusiastic and busy..... I just fear the day when I just can't find the next best thing that sparks my interest.. if that day even exists.