Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TheOxman on February 21, 2002, 07:53:24 AM
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I was just wondering...Why is there no Ju87 or anyone talking about wanting one. I understand they are slow and would be out matched by most other aircraft, or is it just a waste of time to have them in the game.:confused:
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Give it time. :)
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Ooooo i really want to fly these!
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Would be very cool if we get a dive siren to go on the JU87. Imagine you're in the tower of a field under attack. I'd just sit there and listen to the attack while my field gets pummeled. :)
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Im sure we will get some of those.... Just give it about 2 weeks... ;)
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Divesiren a must! Gonna crank those speakers up full blast ;)
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Ooooo i really want to fly these!
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2 WEEKS REALLY? DO U THINK IT WILL BE IN THE NEW 1.09 UPDATE?
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Originally posted by TheOxman
2 WEEKS REALLY? DO U THINK IT WILL BE IN THE NEW 1.09 UPDATE?
OK :) Im gonna be fair with you because you seem to be new to the comunity... Well in Aces High, anything you want is always just 2 weeks away... But anything is possible and don't forget that full list of changes and new toys that gonna be included in 1.09 was not yet announced... We know about 5? new planes coming to 1.09 (109E, 110C?, Hurri Mk. 1, Spit Mk. 1 and the Jap. bomber) well plus we know that some older planes will recieve some facelifts.
At the other hand 109E, Spit 1 and Hurri 1 are just modifications of models we already have in the game so the 3D models didnt take much problems to make (IMHO), Jap bomber and the 110 are new additions. Personaly I hope at least for 1 more aircraft and/or ground vehicle that has not yet been announced. You never know what those guys at HTC are cooking... :D
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err ....
2 week is common joke in the Online Flight sim communauté :)
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eh :) thanks straffo
Actually I wanted to write that but I somehow got busy wit the other idea and completely forgot to explain that...
Yes straffo is right - 2 weeks is just an pretty old joke around here...
But do you know where did this '2 weeks' period came from? It was the time needed by HiTech and the rest of the great HTC ppl to write the first ever version of AH (included are coding time, testing, recovery from hangover followed by the release of first ever AH Beta) :p
Just wonder whether the hangover ever faded? :D
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I see thanks for straighten that out fer me. Yes i am a newbie. Sorry for that, but is there a reason why they have not added it to AH. I am sure that there is a wishlist that everyone has and the Ju87 is on it. (like P-40, P-39 etc). I just wanted to know would there be a reason for not have this plane in AH, and if so why?
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the reason can be (as far as I know ,in no perticuliar order)
It doesn't fit the current MA nor it's needed for a scenario currently.
It take a lot of time to add a plane (performance control , 3 D model ...)
Current day don't last more than 24 hour (sadly ;))
and so on ...
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Originally posted by TheOxman
I was just wondering...Why is there no Ju87 or anyone talking about wanting one. I understand they are slow and would be out matched by most other aircraft, or is it just a waste of time to have them in the game.:confused:
Although the flight model would be easy to put together, the big sticking point is the dive siren. The programming resources required to simulate the nausea and loss of confidence for ground troops being divebombed is just too high at this point :)
That statement was in jest :) Actually, would love to hear a Stuka come diving in on me in an M3!
-Ding
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Ok.. again a newbie question. What does MA stand for.
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MA = Main Arena.
The Ju-87 will be here eventually. Hard to call a game a WW2 flight sim without it.
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Originally posted by straffo
Current day don't last more than 24 hour (sadly ;))
Hmm If its not enough then they can work in the night as well :D
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Does anyone know how many RPG the Ju-87g Carry for the 37mm pods?
I think that if they figure out why 50 cals are punching out tanks, and stop this (assuming it's an innacuracy, and not by design) that planes like the Hurricane IID, Yak-9T and potentially the Stuka Gustav might find a home in the tank-busting Role. But this can't happen if it's easy to pop tanks with .50s and 20mm guns.
Anyhow, that's how I see the Stuka contributing to the MA
-Sikboy
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Something like 6 per cannon.
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Its hard to kill a tank with the Yak9Ts 37mm. Sometimes I can get a good engine hit on a panzer, but most the time the rounds dont do any damage.
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yep...
"The Ju 87G was the 'tank-buster' version of the Stuka. It abandoned the dive attack in favour of an armament of two 37mm Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 3,7 anti-tank cannon. These weapons fired special armour-piercing ammunition, with tungsten cores, at a muzzle velocity of 850m/sec. They were installed in gun pods fitted outboard of the landing gear legs, fed by six-round clips. The Ju 87G could still drop bombs, but not in a dive."
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Yikes! 6 rounds per gun x2 guns= not a lot of tank killing. I'm not sure how usefull that would be in that case :( Perhaps it could be usefull if 1-2 hits could disable a Panzer. I guess I have a new research Project. If these Aircraft were successful in the real life role of tank-busting, I need to find out what my problem is using them in game. I can't kill a PZ in a Hurri2D, but instead of calling for HiTech's head on a stake, I think I'll review my tactics. It would be nice though IMHO, if only the bazooka cannons could punch holes in Panzers.
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by MadBirdCZ
But do you know where did this '2 weeks' period came from? It was the time needed by HiTech and the rest of the great HTC ppl to write the first ever version of AH (included are coding time, testing, recovery from hangover followed by the release of first ever AH Beta)
'2 Weeks' was a phrase long in existance before AH was made.
Ack-Ack
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This is the Stuka model we should get, the Ju87 G-1 with 2 37mm Flak guns.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/stuka_g1.jpg)
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders
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Noway no how on the dive sirens if they implement them it gonna mean early war craft. Personally I'd like to see the Ju87G with 37mm guns with option for bombs too sure they didn't have the sirens but hey take your pick you want bark? or do you want bite?
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Honestly? Bark. If I'm flying a stuka, it isn't because it's good, it's because it's a stuka.
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I would rather take Ju-88 P-2 (2*37mm), -3(2*37mm with better armour) or -4(1*50mm) for tank busting. Ju-88 is already in AH so guess it wouldnt take too much work to model one of these.
btw Ju-87 G would be rather useless in MA. If HTC builds it it would propably see quite much use in first few days and after that people would again take Typhoon, Yak-9T or F4u-1C for tank-hunt. Modelling it would be waste of time (IMO) when there are still planes which could see lots of more users in MA.
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Originally posted by Staga
btw Ju-87 G would be rather useless in MA. If HTC builds it it would propably see quite much use in first few days and after that people would again take Typhoon, Yak-9T or F4u-1C for tank-hunt. Modelling it would be waste of time (IMO) when there are still planes which could see lots of more users in MA.
This is so True. The only hope would be a re-examination of the Air-Ground dynamic in the game. There are a few topics addressing this in the "Aircraft and Vehicles" forum. If something is implemented that would keep the Hispanos and .50s from lazerbeaming Panzers into oblivion, the utility of a Ju-87g/Hurri2D, IL-2, Yak-9T will increase greatly (I think anyhow).
-Sikboy.
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StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookAoops...sorry, got carried away, Schtooka? AH don' need no steenkeeng Schtooka, but it would make scenarios more than a bit more immersive IMO...
StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,StookA,
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I thint that the new verson will be out befor Invasion Sicily. Loo the before the scenarios like big week the new verson came out. Look for it in march :cool:
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Does anyone know how many RPG the Ju-87g Carry for the 37mm pods?
I think that if they figure out why 50 cals are punching out tanks, and stop this (assuming it's an innacuracy, and not by design)
...
-Sikboy
It shouldn't be stopped, P47's regularly blew up panzers and other ground vehicles with their .50cals
I have several videos showing it, if i have the time maybe i'll cap the sections and post the mpegs.
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Originally posted by jpeg
It shouldn't be stopped, P47's regularly blew up panzers and other ground vehicles with their .50cals
I have several videos showing it, if i have the time maybe i'll cap the sections and post the mpegs.
There were a couple of tricks that some US pilots used in killing tanks with their .50 cals. It was common practice for the panzer units to carry their own fuel with them on carriages towed by the tanks. The US pilots would aim for the fuel carriage, causing to to explode and catching the tank on fire.
There are also some reports and second hand stories about some US pilots that would see a panzer on a road and would come in to strafe the tank but aiming in front of the tank so the rounds would hit the road and ricochet underneath the tank, hitting its relatively unarmored belly. Art Mosier, a pilot in the 479th F.G., says he did it once in a P-38J and another time in a P-51D. Robin Olds, the former C.O. of the 479th also claimed to have killed a couple of tanks this way in a P-51D, shortly after the fighter group transitioned from P-38's to P-51's. I've never found an actual AAR debrief on this particular tactic but have heard and read enough personal and second hand stories from WW2 pilots talking about it so it has to have been done by some of the US pilots.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders
KNIGHTS
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jpeg,
Yes, they did, but not nearly so easily or frequently. If fighters had been this effective against tanks the world's militaries would have given up on tanks and just built massive airforces.
The number of Panther Vs disabled by 20mm cannon in the month after D-Day can be counted on one hand.
Bombs and rockets (bombs in particular) were the big threat to tanks from aircraft, and even then the vast, vast majority missed and did nothing. Rockets had something like a 1 in 200 kill rate, 1 kill for every 200 rockets fired.
Big guns like those carried by the Il-2 (37mm), Ju87G (37mm),Hurricane IId (40mm), Mosquito XVIII (57mm) had a chance of destroying a tank, but even then the chance was so low that the RAF transferred the 57mm equipped Mosquitoes to the Coastal Command to be used against German shipping and U-Boats due to lack of effect.
The Browning 50 cal has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 17,800 joules at the muzzle.
The Hispano MkII 20mm has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 50,300 joules at the muzzle.
The NS-37 37mm (Yak-9T and Il-2 gun) has a muzzle velocity of 900m per second and 298,000 joules at the muzzle.
The Vickers S Class 40mm (Hurri IID gun) has a muzzle velocity of 615m per second and 214,000 joules at the muzzle.
The Molins 6 pdr 57mm gun (Mosquito XVIII gun) has a muzzle velocity of 790m per second and 989,000 joules at the muzzle.
...And the RAF found the Molins gun too weak to be useful, in a meaningful way, against German tanks.
Trust me, the Browning 50 was a great gun, but it wasn't a tank killer.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Yikes! 6 rounds per gun x2 guns= not a lot of tank killing.
-Sikboy
Not in the hands of Hanz Rudel. The Ju-87 G-1 wasn't only equipped with the pair of 37mm flak guns but also carried eggs and 20mm cannon(s). Hanz Rudal destroyed over 519 Soviet tanks flying the Ju87 D-3 and G-1.
Achtung Panzer! (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm)
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders
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The NS-37 37mm (Yak-9T and Il-2 gun) has a muzzle velocity of 900m per second and 298,000 joules at the muzzle.
Huh ? the Yak 9T's shell is faster than a hispano ? 'this true or a typo ?
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Saintaw,
According to Tony Williams' book its true. That was the source for all of the data I posted above.
Mind you all, our Il-2 hasn't got it in AH. I was just noting the two aircraft that I know used it in reality.
Our AH Il-2 has the following:
The VYa 23mm cannon has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 77,400 joules at the muzzle.
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Would be very cool if we get a dive siren to go on the JU87. Imagine you're in the tower of a field under attack. I'd just sit there and listen to the attack while my field gets pummeled.
[/UNQUOTE]
BRING THE TRUMPETS OF JERICHO TO AH!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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There are alot of planes we all want. We all agree and more are better than none. I stated in another thread that AH needs to update the VG's. If they gave the Ju87 in the game to make it a true tank buster, it would need it's own dive bombing sights. The siren would be sweet , but not really needed. as cannons go the 37mm with high muzzle velocity would beat the .50cal. Ture the .50 cal is (by military standards a Cannon not a gun) but the ju87 would offer a dive bomber with a gunner in the back also. so the Ju87 might be a easy target , but if u have a gunner worth a crap you might be able to tear it up. In any case the Ju87 would be fun. and that's why we play anyway. Just the fun of flying a ju87 would be sweet. If they get the Ju87 to us imagine the sight of a mass formation of ju87 in the air for combat theaters and such. Of couse ya'll could be right the Ju87 would be a waste of time and an easy kill, but the only way to really find out is to let us fly it.
Other planes on my wish list are the Dauntless and the Jill or Kate. IMHO there is a need for more torp bomber and dive bombers. I get a little tired of flying the TBM and Ju88 just for a torp bomber. If no Ju87 the so be it , but please juat another dive bomber, any will do.
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Originally posted by akak
Not in the hands of Hanz Rudel. The Ju-87 G-1 wasn't only equipped with the pair of 37mm flak guns but also carried eggs and 20mm cannon(s). Hanz Rudal destroyed over 519 Soviet tanks flying the Ju87 D-3 and G-1.
Well, that's great for Hanz, but I was thinking more of myself and my poor A2G gunnery :)
-Sikboy
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can you say WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA , as they richochet off the M3s armor in AH :D
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STOOOKAAAA!!!! :mad: (http://www.accessweb.com/users/mconstab/ju871.jpg) (http://www.ciudadfutura.com/armagedon/stuka/stuka03.jpg) (http://www.ciudadfutura.com/armagedon/stuka/stuka01.jpg) (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/planes/ju-87.gif) (http://airbase.uka.ru/sim/il2/learning/arm_ju_87/img/MG81Z_d1.jpg)
(http://airbase.uka.ru/sim/il2/learning/arm_ju_87/img/arm_ju87_2.jpg)
(http://www.home.ch/~spaw2879/aircrafts/photos/JU87-2.jpg)
Btw. Ju87-G had 12 rounds per gun, making it total 24rounds. 6 rounds per clip. Look picture above and you can see all 4 clips.