Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on February 21, 2002, 08:39:43 AM
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I was reading the paper this morning and there was a story in there about a case of "reverse racism" in Virginia. I didn't read the whole thing but it revolved around a white guy who was faced with bigotry after attempting to join some black organisation.
What annoys me is the expression "reverse racism". This expression assumes that racism is endemic to whites and that if perpetrated against them then it must be REVERSED.
Racism is racism...there is no such thing as REVERSE RACISM!!!!!
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"there is no such thing as REVERSE RACISM!!!!!"
that is correct as it is a one way street .....
when's the last time you've seen a whitey win one of these?
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Try to join a Womens health spa some time...then try to start your own "Men Only" health spa. Same effect.
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I saw a great comic strip once on a similar line....
A little white kid is in a magazine store when in walks a little black kid who goes to the counter and requests a copy of "Ebony" magazine. After the black kid pays and leaves with his magazine the white kid goes up to the counter and requests a copy of "Ivory" magazine.
The guy behind the counter then yells at him "Get outta here kid...this is a progressive magazine store!"
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you couldn't be more right curval.
it kinda shows you the going price on racism from one people vs racism from another.
the 'evilness' seems to only depend on who it eminates from.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Try to join a Womens health spa some time...then try to start your own "Men Only" health spa. Same effect.
Seems to me this is both right but wrong. In the sense of contradiction, yeah.. but why are you people always trying to make yourselves out to be a victim because you aren't allowed to be a victim? That's about what it amounts to. How much do you really care? Would you rather work out a Men Only health spa? Do you want a white culture magazine? The reason for these things is what we have in the mainstream - while our culture is all-encompassing, the basis and general lean is toward a white, male culture base. This is because of norms, one based on majority and one based on tradition. I won't get into male/female culture, since that's phony, but there is a slightly different focus there (though admittedly our society has now managed to effectively hijack the liberation movement by picking it up and making it into a thing for corporate benefit.).
Essentially, you're right about the contradiction in that you wouldn't be able to start a Men Only health spa, or "Ivory" magazine, but it doesn't really matter. The average gym or health place has an atmosphere that's more geared toward men. You want a "white culture" magazine? Pick up just about any magazine off the rack at the supermarket - People, etc. What, you say? There's black people in People? So? There would be white people in Ebony as well, because in todays' broad overall culture there is simply no way that you can pretend that there is no racial overlap. This is good - diversity and unification are only good for us as a community and culture. But broad culture certainly does have certain niches. The default niche, as a result of history and demographics, is aimed more at the white community (which is a ridiculous term to describe a huge diverse group of people who happen to be racially similar, but I can't think of another one). To a lesser extent, it is aimed at the white male specifically. Please understand, this doesn't mean that this is because of a desire to exploit, suppress, or oppress anyone, but it is the way things have worked out. With regard to that at least, I really don't see anything to complain about.
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~S~ ispar. Well spoken.
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ispar I disagree. I think that there is a lot to complain about.
We are now near the end of "Black History Month" which is the most prejudice thing I've seen in a long time. Why do these people deserve a month of celebration?
There are groups geared for blacks only(example: United Negro College Fund) and that seems to be ok but try to have a white only group and see what happens.
Not that I want to have one but the point is I can't unless I want to have my bellybutton sued off.
RACISM goes both ways but it seems that it's "OK" for blacks to be racist.
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Why do these people deserve a month of celebration?
Because you still refer to them as "these people". I guess its a tad bit better than "those people".
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Because you still refer to them as "these people". I guess its a tad bit better than "those people".
I think "these people" is a word for "this culture", I don't think that he meant to isolate, and label them.
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OK what would have been the PC way of saying it?
Wait..never mind I really don't care.
They/Them/Him/Her/Brothers/Sisters/Black/Negro/other____ (just pick one that doesn't offend you) do not deserve a month of celebration just because of the color of their skin.
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Reverse Racism is Msicar, plain and simple.
Now what's this fuss all about?
Daniel, aka Cyrano
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Originally posted by Mighty1
OK what would have been the PC way of saying it?
Wait..never mind I really don't care.
They/Them/Him/Her/Brothers/Sisters/Black/Negro/other____ (just pick one that doesn't offend you) do not deserve a month of celebration just because of the color of their skin.
LOL...love this chit:
There is a Black History Month because for generations that part of our historical background had been ignored. But don't you worry, you still get 11 months of European History.
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Next month is Italian History Month - lots of spaghetti
April is Latino History Month - lowered Hondas and older women with huge bottoms :)
It is bias MT, I'm sure the African American community did not forget their history as I have not forgotten my family tree history but to make a big deal out of it seems a stretch. Trying not to seem prejudice the PC media goes out of their way to show every celebration and mention it at every turn... just don't see the balance. It seems to inflame and open wounds that should be left to heal IMO..
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Originally posted by Mighty1
They/Them/Him/Her/Brothers/Sisters/Black/Negro/other____ (just pick one that doesn't offend you) do not deserve a month of celebration just because of the color of their skin.
You're right. "Their" history should be celebrated year long, just like all history.
BHM is meant to increase awareness of Black History. Unfortunately, it's limited to a month. Our society is integrated, our history should be integrated too. We shouldn't need a month of awareness on the subject.
As to the club thing... I think any PRIVATE club should be able to invite, accept and decline who they want to. If you have a private golf club that wants only white male catholics, hey, who gives a damn? Would you as a non white male catholic actually want to play golf with a bunch of bigoted amazinhunks? There's nothing wrong with a women's health club. Hell, if I was a woman, I'd join one before a co-ed club as I sure wouldn't want to spend my hour at the gym as a visual attraction for the men. I see nothing wrong with a men's health club either. Tho personally, I WANT the visual attractions at my clubs (mmm, I miss the free health club at FSU).
Oh, and the comic strip mentioned above was from Bloom County if I'm not mistaken. :)
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Nifty, you need to contact NOW and tell them to quit trying to shut down Men Only Clubs then. ;)
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I'm still waiting for German and Irish History Months so I can have a good excuse for eating sausage and schnitzel and getting drunk regularly.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Nifty, you need to contact NOW and tell them to quit trying to shut down Men Only Clubs then. ;)
hehe, I'm not standing up for my beliefs against THAT group! they'd tear me limb from limb... I fear NOW. ;)
hehe, I don't get it tho. if the girl is hot, why not let her in the all men's club??? :D
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Nifty I don't disagree with you but I think it shoud be "OUR" history not "Mine" or "Theirs".
I don't think singling out one race to celebrate helps.
To celebrate a race is to seperate them from the rest and isn't that what we are trying to stop?
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i think black history month is a joke and is demeaning to blacks.
it's really just an excuse for people who have renamed themselves from 'shantel jackson' to 'sulyeman mohammed' to get out there in their african clothes and remind whites how much they hate them.
ok, we sit back, it's black history month, let's here some black history.
it's pathetic - 90% of the great black history moments involve slavery or civil rights moments or blacks as workers completing someone elses plan. there are a few minor inventors here and there but all in all black history is really not worth celebrating anymore than anyone elses history. its not bad its just not especially praiseworthy.
if we are going to celebrate the history of an entire people, they should have made a huge positive difference in the world otherwise why bother? their contributions are no more or less impressive than anyone else's why honor them? as is, it is just a token statement meant to pacify blacks and as such, its an insult.
i mean if peanut butter and freeform jazz get you a month what should whites have? after all we brought you everything from the o-ring to the cyclotron.
how about arabs? arabs deserve a month if it's based on acheivement. hell the chinese were making realistic 3-dim perspective paintings years before the renaissance wheres thier month? jewish history month would contain tribute to more than 100 nobel prize winners(dont recall the exact #).....what do blacks win nobel prizes for? writing about slavery or civil rights usually.
i just think it sets them up as childlike and needy of recognition. it's like saying to them : "here's your little month l'ashawne now don't make any more trouble..."
hey i got a funny notion....how about just inviting them into the fold and treating them like humans rather than patronizing them with all this roadkill- isnt that real respect?
if you are playing golf with your friend you say "what a crappy shot fool!" if you are playing golf with your kid and they make the same shot you say "well that was terrific! good job! next time maybe it will make it, keep trying, good work!"
the difference is your friend feels like an equal, competition is on the level and if he wins your respect it will be in the field of competition.....your kid is just happy to be praised.
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I don't disagree with most of what you say mrfish. respect comes from being treated as an equal.
Where we diverge is over the issue of the reason for BHM. It is not so much due to the impressiveness of Blacks in history. It has more to do with completely ignoring Blacks in history for too long.
Has anyone on this board heard of the "Tulsa riots" & "Black wall street"? Not as many as should I wager. Too much has been hidden and or ignored over the years. Should we have a month every year to help us catch up? Only if it isn't done during the normal course of events.
BTW...no one knows the final death toll of the Tulsa riots, but perhaps 3000 lost their lives. The official "white" newspaper claimed 24. Go figure.
This is why there is a BHM (http://www.cnn.com/US/9908/03/tulsa.riots.probe/)
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I know, redundant, but still vialble after all these topics-
An open letter to the Rev. Jesse Jackson,
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We, the members of the Mojo family, feel that your actions and retoric as a self professed leader of the black community are in fact detrimental to the very people you claim to represent.
We also feel that as a result you do much to undermind the well-being and harmony of the United States as a whole.
Your kind of work for the advancement of the black community and you speak from a position that the black population cannot advance itself socialy, politically or economically because an immovable object, the white establishment, forever blocks its path. Yet you preach further support such as welfare and affirmative action that put members of the population in a position of dependancy and reliance on the establishment.
You bask in the glow of the media spot light, you passionately decree that racism and prejudice are alive today as they were four hundred years ago, but does this do anything to reverse it's effect?
No one with the intellegence will deny that a great atrocity was commited against the black race at the hands of white settlers of this country, but a wound cannot heal if it is continuously re-opened. That is to say, that it will heal but it will take much longer and the scar it leaves will be grotesque and raise high on the skin.
A true leader leads by example and the example you have shown is not one of stregnth of character, self-reliance, commentment to excellence or personal accountability.
It's these traits that are necessary to advace oneself as an individual. It is only as strong curagous and moral individuals that any race can live the quality of life that it chooses. We give our deepest respect to the true leaders: Alan Keys, J.C. Watts, ?, Tony Brown, and Dr. Walter Williams. Men who never deny their heritege but are proud to be first and foremost a part of the human race.
------------------------------------
true, eh?
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Some people in here sounds like little children arguing in the sandbox. Why should they have it??? Why? Why? Why?
WHY THE HELL NOT!!!
If you want to celebrate something on your own THEN PLEASE GO AHEAD AND DO SO!!!!
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Look we can both probably come up with events that happened that most people don't know about but does that mean we should focus more on one race's history over another?
I can see trying to change history books that are incomplete but not promoting one race over another.
Whether we like each other or not is irrelevant what matters is that the whole history is told.
History should not be "Black" or "White" it should be "History".
BHM only promotes "Black" history therefore it does the same thing they say they are trying to do away with.
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We're strayed from the topic, the topic is, "is there such thing as reverse racism?"
IE, if a white guy tries to join a "Blacks only" organization, and they org denies him membership, who is guilty of racism? The white guy or the org?
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Maniac it's not that simple.
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I like the history part better, who is more guilty in history for racism? blacks or whites?
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You tell me!
Both sides have shown racism.
I think what you are trying to say is who has suffered the most because of racism?
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Your killing me now, if not an 'Black history month' the Whites should give the blacks an 'White apolygy (Sp?) month to the Blacks" instead.
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On topic...
No. I do not believe there is such a thing as "reverse racism."
Racism is racism. I don't think the term, "reverse racism" even existed before we had the term, "affirmitive action."
IMHO, to single out anyone because of their race, whether it's for praise or persecution, it's racism.
BET, Ebony, Jet, etc... are all racist. Is it bad racism? I don't think so. Having media that focuses on African-American culture doesn't hurt me.
If you want an Anglo magazine, publish one. My guess is that you'll have to fight off the oppressive white racist groups with a stick. Not worth the effort.
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Is that what you think BHM is about? A way for white people to apologize for the something the dead did?
Maniac I have nothing to apologize for Nor do I think blacks deserve an apology.
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Originally posted by Maniac
I like the history part better, who is more guilty in history for racism? blacks or whites?
Blacks, cuz they hate black people too........ ( Chris Rock ) :)
but seriously.... when I was in high school, every year in Black History month, we would flip BACK thru our history books, and learn the SAME stuff we had ALREADY learned earlier in the year about blacks in history. Our history books are full of black history, we don't need another month to learn it again.......... or to remind everyone there is a difference between black and white. how can we be equal when everything is separate.
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Its always fun to have a bunch of white people arguing about this subject, on an online bbs with no african americans (that i know of?)
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Whatchoo talkin' bout, white boy? :p
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you're black Gunthr?
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Midnite Tahgut posted "There is a Black History Month because for generations that part of our historical background had been ignored. But don't you worry, you still get 11 months of European History."
I assume he's black.
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Enlightened people of all races know that "Black History Month" should be quietly removed from all pre-collage curriculums. Black history belongs with the history of all peoples.
Why?
1. There is only one history...
2. The history of all peoples are intertwined, and the history of one people should not be ripped out of that context because it then becomes distorted.
3. Most importantly, in my view, Black History Month as presented in schools actually serves to separate peoples. It is a missed opportunity. It takes blacks out of the "family of man" context and seperates them off by themselves.
Does anyone think that there is a conspiricy to hide black history, or to diminish black people in history necessitating a separate month set aside to study "black" history? That is preposterous in this day and age.
.02
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No Animal, I'm not a person of color. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Midnite Tahgut posted "There is a Black History Month because for generations that part of our historical background had been ignored. But don't you worry, you still get 11 months of European History."
I assume he's black.
Its part of your history too.
Maybe it aint so bad. Ive been watching the History Channel, and learned a few things I didnt know, that I should have.
Maybe if it wasnt "Black History Month" they wouldnt have showed that programing.
Doesnt harm anybody thats for sure.
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Originally posted by Animal
Its part of your history too.
Maybe it aint so bad. Ive been watching the History Channel, and learned a few things I didnt know, that I should have.
Maybe if it wasnt "Black History Month" they wouldnt have showed that programing.
Doesnt harm anybody thats for sure.
Ahh, I see your point of his post. Well, it doesn't bother me, as long as they don't try to re-write history, or force me, a tax payer, to pay for some idiotic thing our forefathers did 150 years ago.(Reparations)
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(by Might1) Maniac I have nothing to apologize for Nor do I think blacks deserve an apology.
sigh
Did you know that the entire State of Indiana was once run by the KKK?
true
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Reparations?
AFAIK, its a month to remember and get to know black history, to those who dont know much about it.
At least thats how I see it.
Not some hidden agenda or some way of venting hate.
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Sorry Rip, but you assumed wrong. When I said "OUR" I meant all Americans.
However, I have posted here before that 2 of my children are black. So I do have a little more insite than the average cracker. :D
(That was a joke.....even liberals have a sense of humor)
:cool:
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Originally posted by Animal
Reparations?
AFAIK, its a month to remember and get to know black history, to those who dont know much about it.
At least thats how I see it.
Not some hidden agenda or some way of venting hate.
But during this month, the local talk shows are all over this reparations thing again...:rolleyes:
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OK what would have been the PC way of saying it?
I don't care what the "PC" term is. I'm not remotely PC about it.
It seems to me this whole thread is about keeping score. In order to do that... some kind of "team" needs to be established and labeled apropriately.
Its quite tiresome actually... yet here we go again.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
But during this month, the local talk shows are all over this reparations thing again...:rolleyes:
Well thats awful of them.
Cant say since I dont see those shows. The History Channel has been great though.
There will always be some bad apples with a negative attitude towards everything. Too bad.
If Martin Luther King were alive, he would be quite happy the way things turned out I believe. There should be no complaining from black people, and "reparations" are absurd.
When are we getting a Native American Moth?
Now THOSE could talk about reparations ;)
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MT Your point is?
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sigh
Did you know that the entire State of Indiana was once run by the KKK?
true
And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Originally posted by koala
And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
Twas a shot at Mighty1, since he lives in Indiana, I think Tahgut is stero-typing again (oh, the hipocrasy of this thread....)
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History is history.. you give it a name if you want but its all the same to me. Black History Month is good and bad. its not "This is what black culture gets for its achievements in the past 250 years", it simply highlights achievements and other things of importance by those who just happened to have a different shade of skin. "11 months go to white/euro/ivory/honky/ history." I have friends that have been saying that all month long. Throughout the month other things of importance have happened... something highlighting susan b anthony.. even President's Day and George Washington's B-day.. my friends complain. Nothing will ever change if they keep holding on to their segragated views! "this is OUR month, we get one lousy month and EVERYONE ELSE gets 11. AND its february, shortest month of the year.. intentional? yes.. BUT ever 4 years we get an extra day" No it isnt YOUR month, its just like any other month of the year.. it happens to highlight certain people of african descent.
Ispar I agree 100%.
oct out
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ispar
good post - wish it was true
for the heck of it I looked up the Ebony website
http://www.ebony.com
and then
People mag website
http://people.aol.com/people/home/0,10719,,00.html
all I'll say is ... interesting
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Animal, Im Black, uggh I mean African American.... Whatever!
Why the hell not - nowadays it's popular in progressive circles to say "race" is a purely social construct with no genetic/ethnic background so I can be any "race" I want to be.
You can now ask me all about Black people and such, cuz I'm a Brotha... :rolleyes:
Tommorow I feel like being Chinese.....
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lol.
then i'm white.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Twas a shot at Mighty1, since he lives in Indiana, I think Tahgut is stero-typing again (oh, the hipocrasy of this thread....)
Absolutely correct Rip.
Mighty1: I apologize for comparing your statement that Blacks don't deserve an apology with the former leaders of your State.
Stereotyping is bad uh huh
Drugs are bad uh huh
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Absolutely correct Rip.
Mighty1: I apologize for comparing your statement that Blacks don't deserve an apology with the former leaders of your State.
Stereotyping is bad uh huh
Drugs are bad uh huh
so now you're going to nail on me?!?!?!?!?:mad: :mad: :mad:
:D :D :D :D
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Udie's bad....uh huh
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mmmmkay!
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Black history.
We were slaves. We remained slaves until some white people decided that it was wrong to make slaves of us. They fought a war with other white people to stop slavery. Then we were free.
If I were black, I would just as soon forget about black history.
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Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks - and Racist Too (http://www.frontpagemag.com/notepad/default.htm)
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Originally posted by easymo
Black history.
We were slaves. We remained slaves until some white people decided that it was wrong to make slaves of us. They fought a war with other white people to stop slavery. Then we were free.
If I were black, I would just as soon forget about black history.
whoa that was harsh.. and untrue. the civil war was not fought over slavery, but it was a factor.
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We were white cracker honkey bigots, until some Black people decided this was bad. They had a "civil rights movement" to stop us from being cracker honkey bigots. Most of us stopped. Thats White History.
sheeesh
:rolleyes:
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the civil war was not fought over slavery, but it was a factor.
On the surface that is true, and is a popular thing to say, until you really start to study the 10 years leading up to the War. In reality, the Civil War was fought over slavery, inasmuch as I believe there would have been no Civil War if the institution of slavery had not existed in the South. Obviously that can be debated and nobody can be sure, because it didn't happen that way, but the whole issue of state rights / sovereignty and the grievances of the secessionist states were driven almost entirely by the slavery issue.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Originally posted by easymo
Black history.
We were slaves. We remained slaves until some white people decided that it was wrong to make slaves of us. They fought a war with other white people to stop slavery. Then we were free.
If I were black, I would just as soon forget about black history.
Now I know why the have black history months.
To TRY to teach people like you.
:rolleyes:
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Most historians belive that Lincoln was the match that lit the fuse. He was an abolitionist. Southerners swore that if he got in the white house there would be a war. A lot of white folks voted him in anyway.
Maybe YOU should try reading something other than liberal propaganda.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Maniac I have nothing to apologize for Nor do I think blacks deserve an apology.
Of course not Mighty1. I doubt you pratice discrimination. But I feel white society has MUCH to apologize for. And not just over what has happened in our past, from slavery to lynchings to civil rights violations, but also white society should apologize for the descrimination that is still occuring today.
The black American experience is as opposite to the white American experience as... well, as black is opposite to white.
Everybody is race-concious, at least. If you're walking at night in a bad neighborhood and hear footsteps approaching from behind you and you glance over your shoulder and it is a black man you'll feel different than if it is a white man. You will feel apprehension, anxiety and maybe even fear at being approached from behind by an African American male. If the approacher is white you will feel relieved. Hey, a BLACK man in the same situation, being approached from behind will become just as apprehensive, anxious and maybe even be a little bit afraid if the approacher is African American, and he, also, will feel relieved to see a white man approaching him. Who do you think the victims of black crime are? Other blacks, usually.
I also find the phrase "those people," when spoken to me at a social situation by a fellow white guy, to be my catch-phrase to clue me that I am talking to a bigot. Usually within one or two minutes you will tell me a racist joke, more often than not using the "N" word in the punchline, then you will offer, unsolicited, your cure-all for the ills of American society, usually dealing with either deportation, imprisonment or execution, depending on how drunk you are.
Then, as soon as an African American enters the room, you rush right over, give him either a "thumb lock" handshake, high-five or get into an out-and-out H.Rap Brown-style dap with the guy, depending on how drunk you are. You refer to him as "Brother" and "Man" throught your conversation, and in general make yourself look like a totally sucking up a-hole phony.
To belittle black history month the way some of you have begs me to ask this question: Why? It's not like you have to rush out to Hallmark and buy Black History Month cards for your wife. It's not like YOU actually have to do anything. What exactly about Black History Month has so many of you up in arms? Why the resentment? If anything it seems it's the African Americans who should be resentful to us.
Now a disclaimer. In no way, shape or form am I calling anyone here a bigot. My comments are not directed at any individual.
Peace out
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Maybe YOU should try reading something other than liberal propaganda.
Are you talking to me?
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
If you're walking at night in a bad neighborhood and hear footsteps approaching from behind you and you glance over your shoulder and it is a black man you'll feel different than if it is a white man. You will feel apprehension, anxiety and maybe even fear at being approached from behind by an African American male
that's only bad if it's based on a hollow, unsubstantiated preconception about blacks.
what if you are more careful solely from experience? should you ignore the insticnt to learn from past experiences in order to be pc?
bah.
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Originally posted by mrfish
that's only bad if it's based on a hollow, unsubstantiated preconception about blacks.
what if you are more careful solely from experience? should you ignore the insticnt to learn from past experiences in order to be pc?
bah.
LOL who said it was politically incorrect to feel apprehension at a black stranger's approach? My point is that an African American would feel just as threatened as a white man would in the same situation.
Now what is the reason for YOUR apprehension? Is it based upon a hollow, preconcieved notion about African Americans or is it based upon your experience fleeing roaming gangs of African Americans?
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If you're walking at night in a bad neighborhood and hear footsteps approaching from behind you and you glance over your shoulder and it is a black man you'll feel different than if it is a white man. You will feel apprehension, anxiety and maybe even fear at being approached from behind by an African American male. If the approacher is white you will feel relieved.
- Elfenwolf
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. LOL, what if you look over your shoulder and see a black and a white together approaching from behind? Get afraid and relieved at the same time??? What actually happens in that bad, black neighborhood is, you are just as aprehensive when approached from behind by the white as you are by the black. Unless of course, you are a racist. ;) Think about it.
Incidentally, there are many people who have things to apologise for... some for discrimination. But I don't owe any black person an apology for discriminating against them. So please make a mental note not to include me in with those that you have decided owe an apology to black people.
By the way, my comments about Black History Month were inspired by that same sentiment in a black station personality. The case against Black History Month is real. It is damaging to, and does not serve black people in this country.
Of course, that is just my opinion.
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Well, Eagler, right off I see the Ebony page, with no pictures of or references to any white people that I can tell. Then I look at the People page and see no pictures of or references to any black people that I can tell. "A conspiracy!"
Well, no. Of course not. Though I used People as an example, it can't be perfect. The magazine is intended for the general population. Because of our demographics, it will have a more "white look." Ebony is very intentionally aimed at black people interested in black culture. Of course, it looks like black culture according to Ebony is about the hottest couples and what the rich and famous people have to say about what-have-you. Basically, it looks like a typical stupid, pop-culture magazine, only black. As to whether it's always devoid of any pictures or references to white people, I don't know. I haven't seen a sample of issues.
Even if didn't have any "white content" whatsoever, would it be racist? I don't think so. It's a mainstream alternative, and it doesn't harm anyone, except maybe their IQs.
As to Black History Month, that's a tough call indeed. It's good in that it does exist to remind people of an important part of our history. On the other hand, it gives people a sense of complacency. The only time people have to learn black history is during BHM, and no one bothers to do much about it at any other time. I certainly don't see any specials on History Channel about the Underground Railroad at any other time of the year. It's a tough line to walk, indeed.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
- Elfenwolf
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. LOL, what if you look over your shoulder and see a black and a white together approaching from behind? Get afraid and relieved at the same time???
LOL no, if I saw a black guy and a white guy approaching my 6 together I would obviously be in a gay neighborhood. I would be safe.
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:mad:
In the intrests of the sanity of my person and the cleanliness of these boards I will not touch this topic - being involved in the governmental aspect of the laws involving affirmative action and equal employment and the such I have come to detest these programs - they are indeed detremental to our society - the effect is no different than racism in any form - lack of progress.
Mazz
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I wanted to jump in this thread, and add my observation on 2 local stories
(that have not made it to national coverage), and a third story that was
shown on a local station, but still involving children. The comman thread
that I can see, is what are the adults teaching the children?
Events.
Story 1:
http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=okl&Forum=171&Topic=5355
A so-called "Black Pledge of Allegiance" on the Millwood Public School's
Web site has led to a raft of angry e-mails from people who say the statement
amounts to black separatist doctrine.
Here's what it says: "We pledge allegiance of the red, black and green,
our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and
to the land we must obtain, one nation of black
people with one God for us all, totally united in
the struggle for black Love, black freedom and
black determination."
Story 2:
http://www.kdfwfox4.com/default.htm
FRISCO: MASCOT CONTROVERSY
(FRISCO, February 20) -- A north Texas high school mascot is causing quite a
controversy. Some people in Frisco say the school's fighting coons mascot is racially
insensitive. It's been the team's name for 80 years since Frisco was an isolated farm
town and African American parents say the time's come for a change. Frisco
parent Ken Sallier said, "They are not the ones being teased behind it. All the jokes
and racial slurs. They're not getting that, so they wouldn't know." And parent Jim
Newman said, "I really feel sorry for something that happened in another part of
the country. That has never been a part of our culture. There's never been a
problem with racism in Frisco." The Frisco school board will face the issue in two
weeks.
Story 3:
http://www.kdfwfox4.com/default.htm
CHILDREN OF JIHAD
To a casual observer, the videotape seems so benign. "The Children's Club" is a
show on Palestinian Authority Television, produced by the Palestininan Ministry of
Education. There are puppet shows, and a character that looks like Mickey Mouse
and lots of music. But when you translate the songs and the poems the little children
sing from Arabic to English, the veil of innocence is ripped away. For example, a
beautiful litter girl sings "Oh, my sister singing constantly, about my life as a suicide
warrior. And throw it into the abyss of death." Another pre-teen girl chants loudly,
"For me, my life has little value, because I'm returning to my Lord. And my people
will know I'm a hero." "On your life, I forsee my death and I rush towards it," shouts
a little boy. "And he who seeks the death of a suicide warrior, this is it. And how I
suffer the chains of the Jews."
Israel has been taping and distributing excerpts of this kind of television for several
years, complaining that the Palestinian Authority uses television to incite violence.
In America, at least, those complaints have largely fallen on deaf ears. But since
September 11th more people are listening.
"These are beautiful children," said Mark Briskman of the Anti-Defamation
League. "And they're teaching them hatred. They're teaching them to be,
ultimately, suicide bombers. You are condemning a whole next generation to this
kind of hatred and violence."
But Mohamed Elmougy, of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, saw and
heard the tape differently. "What we're seeing is a natural reaction to oppression
and occupation," said Elmougy. "This is not hatred. This is patriotism. There's a
very fine line between hatred (and patriotism). They're not saying, 'Go, kill Jews.'
They're saying, 'We want to defend our country.'" Elmougy argued that the
translation was a bit skewed , that the word for "suicide" was not used. "I'm deeply
concerned about what I'm hearing on both sides. There's a Rabbi (in Israel) that
has used some of the same rhetoric about Palestinians and Arabs in general."
"You might have individuals who have prejudices," countered Mark Briskman. "But
there is no systematic indoctrination of children in Israel to hate Arabs, to talk
about spilling blood to kill Arabs, to talk about a holy war."
It may surprise you to learn, however, that Mark Briskman and Mohamed Elmougy
can watch the same videotape -- see and hear it so very differently -- and yet,
together, the two men continue to work on forging an alliance and more
understanding between local Muslims and Jews.
"As Americans, first and foremost, we have a lot of issues we have in common,"
said Mohamed Elmougy. "We can certainly work on them and still respect some of
our differneces."
Mark Briskman agreed. "Concern for religion in public schools, concern about hate
crimes, job discrimination, religious bigotry -- in those areas we certainly have a
common agenda."
What's going on in the Middle East may seem hopeless, but Elmougy and Briskman
offered a glimmer of hope for Muslims and Jews in the United States.
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I'm not surprized that the Black Pledge of Allegiance has come into existance. Its a natural outgrowth of concepts like Affirmative Action and Black History Month.
Someone suggested reciting the Black Pledge of Allegiance substituting the word "white" wherever you see the word "black".
I believe most black people would strongly object to that version.
Thats because its racist.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Of course not Mighty1. I doubt you pratice discrimination. But I feel white society has MUCH to apologize for. And not just over what has happened in our past, from slavery to lynchings to civil rights violations, but also white society should apologize for the descrimination that is still occuring today.
Uhhm....I'm not apologizing to anyone for anything someone else does, and I'm DAMN sure not watching my tax dollars go towards "reparations"
The black American experience is as opposite to the white American experience as... well, as black is opposite to white.
Everybody is race-concious, at least.
And everyone has the opportunity to make a "proper" choice.
If you're walking at night in a bad neighborhood and hear footsteps approaching from behind you and you glance over your shoulder and it is a black man you'll feel different than if it is a white man. You will feel apprehension, anxiety and maybe even fear at being approached from behind by an African American male. If the approacher is white you will feel relieved.
THIS is pure whiney B.S. in grand form. If I'm in a bad neighborhood and I look behind me and see a well kept, well dressed black OR white man I am ...cautious. If I see some clod dressed like a gangbanger....I don't turn my back on him.
I also find the phrase "those people," when spoken to me at a social situation by a fellow white guy, to be my catch-phrase to clue me that I am talking to a bigot. Usually within one or two minutes you will tell me a racist joke, more often than not using the "N" word in the punchline, then you will offer, unsolicited, your cure-all for the ills of American society, usually dealing with either deportation, imprisonment or execution, depending on how drunk you are. Then, as soon as an African American enters the room, you rush right over, give him either a "thumb lock" handshake, high-five or get into an out-and-out H.Rap Brown-style dap with the guy, depending on how drunk you are. You refer to him as "Brother" and "Man" throught your conversation, and in general make yourself look like a totally sucking up a-hole phony.
This appears to be no more than fantasy.
To belittle black history month the way some of you have begs me to ask this question: Why? It's not like you have to rush out to Hallmark and buy Black History Month cards for your wife. It's not like YOU actually have to do anything. What exactly about Black History Month has so many of you up in arms? Why the resentment? If anything it seems it's the African Americans who should be resentful to us. Now a disclaimer. In no way, shape or form am I calling anyone here a bigot. My comments are not directed at any individual.
Peace out
Agreed. I see or hear "Black History Month"... my reaction is "Big Deal". Whats all the fuss about? It's not gonna hurt anyone, nobody is going to make anyone else run out and buy "Black Stuff" whatever the hell that would be. It's just not worth any stress at all.
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Alot has been said here....too much of it WAY off topic....but interesting nonetheless...
I posted the cartoon as a way to show another very minor instance of reverse racism at work...not to declare how unfair it was for blacks to have their own magazines and/or TV shows.
A white only magazine....hmmmmm
If I was an editor and was offered a job on a white only magazine I would decline, no matter how PC the content might be. Why? Because the perception of white only ANYTHING is a bunch of racist white supremists who are trying to promote racial purity! I would not want my name associated with this perception. But, an editor of a black magazine or TV show is faced with no such stigmatism. This in my opinion is as stupid as the term reverse racism.
....and by the way...thanks for pointing out that the cartoon was from Bloom County...I had assumed that it was a white kid who asked for the copy of "Ivory" magazine...turns out it was Opus..the unbias black and white penguin, who was making a third party "observation" of the original transaction.
Black History month....in principle there is nothing wrong with having this to honour black culture and influence in our society. But, as has been pointed out here, blacks were not the only race to face slavery or abuse as a racial group.
Lets take the Jews as an example. We should have Jewish History Month as well. Collectively blacks generally tend to roll their eyes and claim that their own slavery "holocaust" was far worse than what happened to the Jews....this I have seen and argued against with some black friends myself....my answer to this is that I am not referring to what happened in our century and that perhaps they should read their bibles. I told them to refresh their memories of the story of the parting of the Red Sea, where Moses destroyed the pursuing Egyptian Army by parting and then collapsing the Red Sea on top of them. What was Moses doing there? Why were the Egyptians chasing the Jews? The answer is simple...the Jews were fleeing slavery. This was THOUSANDS of years before the blacks were taken from Africa to the new world by whites!
Reparations? I am opposed to paying for something I do not feel that I am responsible for. My family and ansecstors were not slave owners...I have checked. Have I benefitted from white economic institutional racism...perhaps in some ways...but my family worked hard to get where we are today. We were not handed anything! Exactly who would we pay these reparations to? Anyone with black skin? How much should we pay? There are arguments that blacks in the US were promised 100 acres and something like $100 after being freed and that whites reneged on the deal. Take a future value on this amount and you will find that each black person in the US is eligible for about a million each today. I don't see this ever happening...and if it did what would it be telling the black youths....you are OWED something and you don't need to work for it!
I am not a racist....blacks and whites need to discuss and understand each other, without worrying about being branded a racist by either side. Open dialogue and effort on both sides will go much farther than History Months or magazines dedicated to one specific racial group, to bring equality and harmonisation.
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You all forget one important factor, having a race division serves a purpose for a certain political party, and helps them get re-elected.
Bottom line: Race divide is good for politicians and $$.
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was watching history channel sunday, just flipping channels.
There was a thing about Black Aviators.
Did you know that there was a black fighter pilot in WWI !!! He flew with americans in french service, and even got some kills.
Then USAAF got there and properly grounded him.....
Then they had a thing about female black stunt pilot and her life. It was very interesting, and fact is, that we wouldn't hear about this if it wasn't for that Black History Month thingy.
The essence of that concept still escapes me, and i find it very amusing how people get worked up over it :D
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Originally posted by fd ski
was watching history channel sunday, just flipping channels.
There was a thing about Black Aviators.
Did you know that there was a black fighter pilot in WWI !!! He flew with americans in french service, and even got some kills.
Then USAAF got there and properly grounded him.....
Then they had a thing about female black stunt pilot and her life. It was very interesting, and fact is, that we wouldn't hear about this if it wasn't for that Black History Month thingy.
The essence of that concept still escapes me, and i find it very amusing how people get worked up over it :D
Well, again, the thread started off on a note of "Does reverse racism exsist?", and the thread got side-tracked into Black History Month (Which, I might add, I have no problem with, and I watch the History channel religiously)
I think they should just integrate a months worth of Black history over the period of 12 months as I find some of their struggles, as well as the idiocy of our former fathers in this country, interesting.
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Lots of interesting stuff in this thread....
Reverse Racism: Racism is racism. Many racists however use this phrase as an excuse to be racist. Have white people lost jobs or contracts simply because they are white? Probably. Have Black people lost jobs or contracts because of their race?...duh! Hell yes! Neither is OK, and that is that. Do we still owe something to those who have been persecuted and held back for generations? I think so. Here's what we owe them.........
Lets level the playing field. Lets ensure that all have an equal chance. Lets make sure that each person has the opportunity to succeed or fail based solely on their merit and work ethic.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Lots of interesting stuff in this thread....
Reverse Racism: Racism is racism. Many racists however use this phrase as an excuse to be racist. Have white people lost jobs or contracts simply because they are white? Probably. Have Black people lost jobs or contracts because of their race?...duh! Hell yes! Neither is OK, and that is that. Do we still owe something to those who have been persecuted and held back for generations? I think so. Here's what we owe them.........
Lets level the playing field. Lets ensure that all have an equal chance. Lets make sure that each person has the opportunity to succeed or fail based solely on their merit and work ethic.
Well said Sir!
But, how do we level that playing field? This is the real challenge.
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Originally posted by Curval
Well said Sir!
But, how do we level that playing field? This is the real challenge.
By voting the right way. Don't let the politicians use "Race" as leverage for your vote. Don't let them convince you that a problem exists and only they can fix it. Thats a good start.
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Tumor, the phrase "Those People" was Archie Bunker's tag line in "All In The Family." I understand so many of you consider it to be innocent, but I think it implies a division in the thought process of people of different ethnic groups, as if they somehow have a different agenda than white America does. Sorry, but it's a racist phrase, at least in my opinion.
Are "those people" seperated from "us folks" in thoughts and deeds? I doubt it. I have too many co-workers, friends and neighbors who are people of color and I've discovered they want the same things I do- an education for their kids, a good job and less crime on the streets.
We live in a racist society and it will continue to be racist until all of us put aside phrases like "those people" and "us folks" and instead concentrate on "We The People."
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
By voting the right way. Don't let the politicians use "Race" as leverage for your vote. Don't let them convince you that a problem exists and only they can fix it. Thats a good start.
Okay Rip, take a look at Bermuda's situation:
Party politics has historically been dominated by the white "money" party...the UBP (United Bermuda Party). They used the "divide and conquor" tactic of winning votes by splitting the black vote - Bermuda is 70% black.
In 1998 the PLP (Progressive Labour Party) was voted in...essentially the black party. They used the divide and conquor tactic by splitting the vote down racial lines of white vs. black.
We only have two parties. Who would you vote for if you lived here?
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hehe, I couldn't judge by just those stats you posted, I'd have to look at each individual issue and how it affects me.
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Originally posted by Curval
Well said Sir!
But, how do we level that playing field? This is the real challenge.
One way is affirmative action, of a sort. Not quotas, but incentives to maintain fairness in hiring and firing. Incentives for minority owned businesses etc. Enforcing the laws against discrimination. Using the power of the press to inform the public about the isidious types of discrimination that still occurrs daily. Treating everyone as you would like to be treated.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
hehe, I couldn't judge by just those stats you posted, I'd have to look at each individual issue and how it affects me.
LOL...a very good answer... :)
Obviously it is a loaded question, but I guess what I was trying to say was that politics knows no boundaries...if racial division is an election issue it will be raised...no doubt about it.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
One way is affirmative action, of a sort. Not quotas, but incentives to maintain fairness in hiring and firing. Incentives for minority owned businesses etc. Enforcing the laws against discrimination. Using the power of the press to inform the public about the isidious types of discrimination that still occurrs daily. Treating everyone as you would like to be treated.
midnight....
Affirmative action has done more to harm blacks than to help them.
Incentives for minority owned business' will very rapidly decline into a political football...it has here already. Contacts are awarded to blacks merely because they are black...fair? Economically sound? Racist?
The press in this country have already been labelled anti-black because they report news items that the government disagrees with!
It just isn't that simple!
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More laws to protect a race is not the answer. The more laws you create to protect a so called discriminated against race the more annomosity you create between them and the other races.
Lets face it any law that was created to prevent racism is geared towards white males.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
More laws to protect a race is not the answer. The more laws you create to protect a so called discriminated against race the more annomosity you create between them and the other races.
I don't know, I kind of agree with laws allowing minorities to vote, attend public schools or, dare I say it, sit in the front of a bus. These were issues less than 40 years ago, but looking back on those times now who would agree with the concept of denying minorities the vote? OR an education?
I agree that working for civil rights legislation caused an awful lot of anomosity in the 60s, however. Look at all the lynchings, church bombings and other hate crimes that went on.
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But I feel white society has MUCH to apologize for. And not just over what has happened in our past, from slavery to lynchings to civil rights violations, but also white society should apologize for the descrimination that is still occuring today.
Stop stereotyping whites. As a white male individual, I don't owe blacks an apology or anything else. Just because others with my skin color have done bad things to others with black skin color, does not make me guilty by association. Otherwise you simply justify whites making stereotypical remarks about "black society". Your remarks are just as racist and ignorant as theirs.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Elfenwolf you know good an well I'm talking about new laws not ones from 40 years ago!
Things are not the same as they were 40 years ago nor are things bad enough to require special treatment of ANY race.
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Mighty1 what new laws are YOU talking about?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
One way is affirmative action, of a sort. Not quotas, but incentives to maintain fairness in hiring and firing. Incentives for minority owned businesses etc. Enforcing the laws against discrimination. Using the power of the press to inform the public about the isidious types of discrimination that still occurrs daily. Treating everyone as you would like to be treated.
Affirmative Action? No way. AA has a real nice ring to it, but as soon as it's implemented, all you have is unfairness. You simply can't say "Affimative Action" without including "quota's" in the meaning. How do you provide an "Incentive" without being totally unfair to "other than" minorities of a supposedly equal status?
AA leads to unfairness leads to anger leads to racism. As sorry and sad as that sounds, thats the way it is. You can't pave the way for someone based on race and not expect those on the short end of the stick not to eventually develop allot of animosity.
The only way is Education, pure and simple. Unfortunately, that takes time and we are an impatient society.
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Just a point about black people history in America. AFAIK, based on population and history, most representative black people community in America is in Brazil, not USA.