Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Nefarious on September 12, 2001, 09:48:00 AM
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Waking up for my sketchbook review yesterday around 900AM EST I turned the TV on and was hit by the shock of a burning NY skyline.
First of all I am sorry and I send my deepest condolences to all the victims of this hienous act.
I almost turned off the TV when I actually heard the reporters on FOX telling me that NASDAQ and the DOW were already taking a big hit from this catastrophe, All the while people were leaping to thier death on live television.
But we need to realize what is actually going on here. Americans are already demanding vengeance. And our leaders are telling us we will get it. Americans are starting to point fingers. And i recall OKC during the nineties we were totally wrong on who we thought it was. I would not be supprised if this an act of terrorisim against not just the US but the WTO and other such groups.
My main question here is, What happens if the culprit/s are American Extremeists against the WTO and World Bank.
So before you say your gonna bomb the hell out of them. Lets remember how terribly wrong we were in OKC.
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Don't forget they attacked the Pentagon.
The fourth plane never made it to it's target, what would it have hit? Capital? White House? What? I don't know.
I just have this feeling that we are pointing our fingers at the right person.
-SW
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If it's Americans then I think you'll see people calling for heads as loud if not louder. Difference being, we don't have to worry about going in foriegn airspace to flatten them, and won't take as much overhead to wipe them out.
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I heard speculations that the 4th plane was headed for Camp David. If that is true, I think we know who is behind. IF that is true.
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http://www.yahoo.com/s/1604 (http://www.yahoo.com/s/1604)
The investigation has begun, we'll find out very soon if we are right about it being foreign or domestic terrorists.
-SW
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Yes the evidence is pointing to who we think it was. But we also said the same thing about the OKC bombing.
I dont know.
I bet the 4th plane was heading to Washington, the target?, we will never know.
Thier were still plenty TOT's open in DC.
The Scary thing is how many were stopped before their flight got airborne?
I just wanna say, dont make accusastions before you have any evidence. Im hoping that G-DUBB (lol, George Bush Jr.) will see us through this, the right way.
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Keez, I heard this too. I also heard rumors about the White House and the Capital.
Considering how close it was to Camp David before it went down, that was probably the most viable target.
Either way, this was an attack against the US. It was an attack on our own soil against our own people who happen to be very high ranking people in our Government.
It wasn't just the Government, it was all of the US.
-SW
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If it's domestic terrorists? Deal with them no different than we would deal with Bin Laden or another foreign terrorist group.
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Considering how close it was to Camp David before it went down, that was probably the most viable target.
-SW
Well it was closer to Pittsburgh than Camp David. Camp David is and will always be a NO-FLY zone. If it made it camp david it probably would have been shot down. Camp David is a viable target, but I believe a target in DC is worth a lot more than Camp David.
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Originally posted by Nifty:
If it's domestic terrorists? Deal with them no different than we would deal with Bin Laden or another foreign terrorist group.
whats that cruise missiles? Air Strikes? over US soil? sure.....One miss and boom...
thier goes 2000 more innocent civilians.
What you reap is what you sow.
[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Nefarious ]
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its ragheads...
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no need for a cruise missle, but air strikes could be a possibility, IF it's an isolated compound. I guarantee you IF it is a US group, very, VERY few other Americans will support them, or hide them away. In other words, military action won't be necessary like it will be in the case of Bin Laden. Why bomb a town when you can just send in the FBI and arrest them? That's a possibility here. However, in Afghanistan or Palestine, do you honestly think we could just send in a team and the locals would help in pointing out where the terrorists were? No, it would require a different strategy.
I didn't mean to use the exact same strategies and armed force branches. I meant deal with them in the same way as bringing them to justice. In other words, they will pay for this with their lives one way or the other, whether it be through military action or death as a punishment for treason.
However, if it is US terrorists and they have a Waco like compound... then by all means bomb it or take it by military force. What happened yesterday is an act of war. If it was done by American citizens, well, there's a word for it, treason, and a punishment for it, death.
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I hope the world and the US has the resolve to finish this.
I hope that the stupid laws that protect international terror from international law are remidied.
Start by shooting the guys that were going to go on trial today.
As your president said. this is war. you gotta break some eggs.
I hope everyone has the nuts for it.
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Taking out the money flow to the terroists groups is the first way to start thier downward spiral. The ability for them to conduct ops, training etc is all centered around the free flow of money. You take out that cash flow and then they have to surface and become more active. Much of the money that flows to these groups comes from governments that what to hurt the US in one form or another but there is a great deal of money that comes from wealthy individuals in the mideast. What would happen if some of those indivduals would suddenly start to dissapear or some of the govenment officials in those unfriendly states would start to go away---this is war by any means. Right now there are 2 kinds of people in the world,,, those that are with us and those who are agianst us.......There is no room for middle ground.
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Declare War on terroist groups that threaten the US. This enables us to kill them in their own beds. This would not of happened if Afganistan had gave us that dog after the Cole attack. My feeling? Flatten Afganistan as an example to the rest of the world. You harbor terrorists that attack us, you will die in your own beds with them.
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Originally posted by Nefarious:
Well it was closer to Pittsburgh than Camp David. Camp David is and will always be a NO-FLY zone. If it made it camp david it probably would have been shot down. Camp David is a viable target, but I believe a target in DC is worth a lot more than Camp David.
But look at the symbolic value of Camp David. It would definatly be a very symbolic target for Palestins.
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They are also saying this morning that the Pentegon bird was orginally targeting the White House. Air Force One was also one of the targets.
Good news is they already are HOT on the trail. People have been detained in Boston for questioning. There is a clear trail from the Canadian border to boston.
Better find a rock bugs, the hammer is poised to squish you!
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Originally posted by Eagler:
its ragheads...
Whatever happens, we need to make damn sure we go after the people that are responsible for planning and executing this operation. If we just go out and "kill ragheads", as Eagler wants to do, then we are no better than those who perpetrated this heinous act. If we seek vengence in the world, then we should do it with the same respect for life, liberty, justice, and human rights that we claim to hold so dear in this country; otherwise, we are just hypocrites -- of the worst kind.
Buhdman, out
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Shame on you Eagler.
Racist epithets are not appropriate.
It was a small group of people that did this, not an entire race.
Jase,
Flatten Afganistan and kill all those people, most of whom don't like their "Government"? That would hardly solve the problem.
I think that we should find out who did this (I'm pretty sure who it was) and get them and all of their backers. However, we shouldn't stop there. Once we've gotten those who did this we should continue and get every other group that does this sort of thing. Make no distinction between those who committed this act and those who wish they had or would like to commit such acts on any other people.
End it once and for all.
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Karnak I should of been more specific. I meant that we should flatten the goverment of the countries that support terrorism and specifically the punk that organized this attack.
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I think you can pretty much rule out domestic terrorist simple because Western terrorist hope to survive thier mission in order to do more missions later. As you can see , these guys had no plans of walking away from this
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The idea of the quote from President Bush (We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those that harbor them[paraphrase]), indicates, and rightly so, that we should take action against any government that just turned their heads and let these people prepare and train to kill American citizens. If we can do this effectively, many other governments around the world will will be less inclined to let these things happen within their borders. the Taliban government in Afghanistan is already trying to put distance between themselves and Bin Laden because they se what's coming. The trouble is, can we do this effectively?
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I foresee a drastic $$ savings in not using "smart" weapons when the iron begins to fall on those responsible.
IF (IF) a foreign nation is harboring those who did this, they'd better begin to dig trenches, if they dont get a first row seat to "Tritium 101" , they'll need those holes when the NATO forces trample over them.
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You can feel the fear comming out of the Middle East already. Yassir Arifat is giving blood, and today there are Palestinean kids holding signs that say they like America and such, the Taliban is condeming the attack, and so are alot of others that are not exactly on good terms with the USA.
Of course there is always the thought in the back of your mind that these sort of things are just for show. I want to point out that I am not trying to sterotype all Palestineans, Afgans or Iraqis as anti-US. Indeed it seemed to me the Kurds would have been glad to see us in Bagdad (and I felt REALLY sorry for them when I saw them running from Sadam). I just feel that we need to do something, but NOT alienate those locals that would help us.
This may turn into another Vietnam....but I should point out that the Viet Cong and the NVA never attacked the US mainland and killed how many thousand in a single attack. In Vietnam we didn't have a clear purpose. We do here, just not a clear enemy.
Hans.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: LtHans ]
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We DO have a clear enemy. It's just we can't locate him. Different concepts. Terrorism is our enemy. And, as your President has so correctly stated, terrorists are the ones who harbor them. I would put in the same bag the ones that vocally support terrorists or harboring countries.
As ygsmilo states, key point on this issue is money. They need it as bad as we do, maybe even more. Interdiction on assets belonging to suspicious people (individuals, corporations countries) I think it's in due order. And, as long as this will not cost immediate lives, I would start with this, on a "first shoot, then ask" basis.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Pepe ]
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Originally posted by Jase:
Karnak I should of been more specific. I meant that we should flatten the goverment of the countries that support terrorism and specifically the punk that organized this attack.
If you use such a statement as policy, there is a good case to flatten the US as a major fund raiser for the IRA, a major terrorist group.
Never let fact get in the way of righteous revenge...
Tronsky
486 Sqn (NZ), "Hiwa hau Maka"
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Originally posted by -tronski-:
If you use such a statement as policy, there is a good case to flatten the US as a major fund raiser for the IRA, a major terrorist group.
Never let fact get in the way of righteous revenge...
Tronsky
486 Sqn (NZ), "Hiwa hau Maka"
Tronsky,
I seriously doubt anybody in western countries would fund any terrorist whatever the cause is, after what happened.
If they do, drastic measures should be taken against them. As criminal is the one who pulls the trigger as the one who gives him money to buy the gun.
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The US gave Bin Laden the money to buy the gun to fight russia back then in afghanistan. Bin Laden is not the first and maybe not the last to be supported by the US to do the dirty work, before they turn against the hand that feeds them.
US flight schools took money (from the same terrorists that piloted the planes) for the flight training they supplied them.
Terrorists are living here in Germany at this moment...
We will all carry on with our "politics" - not as human beings, but as Americans, Germans, Palestinians, Afghanis.
If I were God i'd nuke the World and start over from scratch.
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Originally posted by Effdub:
The US gave Bin Laden the money to buy the gun to fight russia back then in afghanistan. Bin Laden is not the first and maybe not the last to be supported by the US to do the dirty work, before they turn against the hand that feeds them.
Exactly Effdub.
Ive heard that some maybe a few were American Citizens.
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Terrorism isn't a national issue it's an ideological one. As long as any extremist group feels it can vent it's spleen in comparative safety against it's chosen foe we are all in danger. On the largest scale attacking those who give aid and comfort to any/all terrorists will certainly have an impact over time. I think an excellent way to create an immediate change in the course of events would be to compile a master list of known terrorists using the combined resources of all major intelligence services.
I think an offer of $1,000,000 a head for any non breathing list member would provide enough incentive....drop em off at any embassy....probably cost less than all the hardware we're about to dump on someone soon.
Unfortunately I do think this will be a long and difficult process, we've been at war for years now...we just have to accept it for what it is. In the end, a bunch of hard line extremists just signed up for extinction 101...
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Originally posted by Effdub:
The US gave Bin Laden the money to buy the gun to fight russia back then in afghanistan. Bin Laden is not the first and maybe not the last to be supported by the US to do the dirty work, before they turn against the hand that feeds them.
Give a mad man a gun, then be surprised when he turns and shoots you. I think we can agree that arming and training, Noreiga, Hussien, and the Mujahadeem were all bad ideas.
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The US gave Bin Laden the money to buy the gun to fight russia back then in afghanistan. Bin Laden is not the first and maybe not the last to be supported by the US to do the dirty work, before they turn against the hand that feeds them.
Not...Interview was on last night with the chief CIA operative in Afghanistan during those times. He specifically stated that bin Laden was not a soldier during those times nor was he a hero as he proclaims to be...we never dealt with him. As a matter of fact, it was very disconcerting to him that the "Myth of bin Laden" has grown to such proportions.
trm
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The problems in Afghanastan aren't so simple because there were many factions fighting. It's been stated in texts and is my opinion that part of the reason the USSR were fighting was against the rising Muslim fundamentalism because they have a great deal many Muslims in their country as well as other things. But again, there were really several factions including at the start someone named Amin (?) who was head of the country and then later also Prime Minister (when that person was killed and so took both roles) and who was actually educated in the USA. Also, the UK supplied blowpipe missiles through the CIA so you can see that's it's not just the USA and the whole thing is a crazy mess.
This is just one one-hundredth of the whole story (which I don't completely understand and readily admit that) and my point is to show it's not always so easy to state things so simply like it's being stated. Supporting Bin Ladin specifically, I don't think so.
Just like we supported Iraq during the Cities War but we also secretly supplied Iran as well. However, Iraq flew a great many French-built fighters and received some during the conflict. These things are not always the USA in isolation.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels