Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on July 02, 2000, 09:13:00 AM
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1st- Hristos wins
2nd Hangtime wins
3rd Hangtime wins
4th Hristos wins
5th Hristos wins
Hristos wins 3-2
Rubber match in same plane:
1st set in G10-Hristos wins
2nd set in P51-Hangtime wins
From an observer point of view, these pilots are cast from the same mold, very good in their respective planes.
Congrats to both pilots!
<S>
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
~GeschwaderKommodore~I./JG2~Richthofen~[/i]
CLICK>> JG2 INFORMATION (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/JG2inquirer.html)
Panzer Group Afrika~15th Panzer Division~[/i]
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
I spare no class or cult or creed,
My course is endless through the year.
I bow all heads and break all hearts,
All owe homage-I am Fear.
-------------General Patton
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-02-2000).]
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So... who pays who? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ok, so if Hristo won then this means that the best pilots fly for Luftwaffe, right..? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Seriously Hristo, how old are you?
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Great fight, Hangtime. I must say this was very thrilling for me, probably the most intense fight I ever had in AH.
film (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/duel.zip)
1st fight
We merge level, 10k. At this time I am sure a simple loop will win me enough E to dictate the fight afterwards. Hang extends far and I follow. He starts a downwards left turn, where I can't gain any position. I did not E fight him, just followed in TnB manner. Near the deck fight develops in sustained maneuvering with yoyos, where I got luckier on one HO.
Before the fight I had doubts that Hang will try to run me out of fuel, so I took 50% and DT with me. Now I have seen he stays close and personal.
2nd fight
Hang changes his style, slightly diving into the merge and looping after it. I neglect this and try a lazy loop. Combination of my poor loop and Hang's initial E state puts me in bad situation. Two HO passes and I lose vital parts. Clear victory for Hangtime.
3rd fight
Same merge strategy, this time I have 25% fuel and win E on merge. However, I miss a shot opportunity and find myself at disadvantage in vertical scissors. God how I miss 190 roll there. Now with Hang slightly gaining behind me at 900 yds, quick decision to dive instead to outaccelerate the opponent decides the outcome. I count on overshoot. This is when I started missing 190 evasives and cursed stiff 109 ailerons. With engine smoking, I do last ditch maneuver, pushing stick forward with hard right rudder. Hang overshoots, I land some pings, but engine cuts in crucial moment. Victory to Hangtime.
4th fight
I must not allow to lose any more fights. This time I count on my DB 605. I climbed after the merge and started a right spiral. As I expected, Hang can't follow. I mess the drop however, so we go again, me in vertical, Hang going for angles. After a snapshot on his left wing, I get greedy and switched my brain off. I start TnB with obviously lighter P 51. Downward left turn, all the way to the deck. It ended up in deck flat turn, with nobody gaining any significant advantage. First one to disengage dies. In yoyos I fight my DB 605 torque, while Hang flies very smoothly. My WEP is constantly goin ON/OFF, as I try to squeeze as much of the methanol as I can. Just when I thought I will run out of fuel and thinking to do something else, Hang slows down and augers. Ran out of fuel. WOW !
It would be interesting for all tech types to watch those turning circles though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
5th fight
The decision. I use Hangtime's merge tactics, diving to merge from 11-12k, while dropping DT. With imperative not to lose alt, I spiraled again on Hang, missed first shot, but got him in another high to low HO pass.
Hang got some very good advice there. Along with his superb TnB technique in P 51, he made for very intense duel. Being at 1:2 was very bad time for me, but thankfully all turned out good.
Salute Hantgime. Next time we take P 51 vs Dora (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hristos, i knew i could never doubt your preformance (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) . Its a shame i didnt get to watch it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif), but oh well. Remember Toad, dont mail my winnings till i get back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Congratulation Hristo!
My Flight Leader is an excellent Warrior!
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/bbsfile/thunder.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Hang sits in the darkened video room; a cloud of smoke drifts thru the light flickering on the screen.
Film from Hang's Cockpit http://207.201.172.230/DL's/HangvHristo.ZIP (http://207.201.172.230/DL's/HangvHristo.ZIP)
"Yup. He kicked my ass. Fight one; I blew it.. fights 4 and 5 he held the e sack real close. Then; that damn outta gas situation in 4 was provoked by the e edge he held in the previous fight. I spilled my tanks on takeoff for that fight hopin to evade him on the high drag over the top that kept cropping up on turn 2 after the merge. Gawddamit; cause of that I Ran outta gas.. argh; when Rude hears this he's gonna laff his bellybutton off at me."
Jigster; awake for 39 hours waitin for the duel; squints at the film. Shakes his head. "Nope; Hang; he just had a better bird; and flew its strengths where the pony has no answer. When you had him on the deck you shoulda killed him tho...."
Dammo.. I know... was gonna cut back into him on the turns before all the wep was gone and start a scissors; but he'd already peeled an aileron off; and the ponies roll is bad enuff with two.. it's worse than a 109's with one gone. So I had to creep around in that damn turn grabbin angles where I could. When she got slow without wep she wouldnt haul any tighter and I had to stop yo-yo'ing 2 turns before he did. So he got a few degrees back."
<shakes head, finishes Scotch>
"Dammit; I started too far back in the energy curve for that kinda turning anyway.. e was already all cashed out when we got to the flat turn. Damn. Damn. *sigh* The circles never got close enuff to make a reversal a sound offensive move either. Was hopin he would before the gas went.. *sigh*"
Hang groans; looks up at film. " Then; On the last fight; I came to the merge with the tanks.. heavy; thanks to running out on the last one. I spit em off and went up with him at the merge, same opening again. This time; I could not keep him close as he came over the top and was forced defensive HO on the merges. No shot.. and a quick death. Weight made the diffrence.. and heavy ponies just cant grab up with 109G10."
Jigster smiles; pours two more fingers of scotch in hangs glass. "Ya nailed him in the pony v pony spot tho.."
Hang smiles. "Yah; a bright moment. He got some kinda bug up his bellybutton right on the first merge; went straight up. LOL; where in hell did he think he was goin?? Oh; well; sure enuff he sagged out, and I slid past and saddled up. Game over. On the other hand; that G10 vs G10 fight we tangoed fer a little while; and I got my first taste of e moves in it. Then I discovered he's far better at turnin that thing.. and I couldn't even find the speedo and the flap guage. I felt lost in that cockpit, screwed my SA good. A novel experience; flyin a G10.. <shudder> Amazing I lasted as long as I did."
Jig smiles. "Anything you wanna send Hristo??"
"What?? My head is not enuff?? LOL. Tell him he can have the cat. And tell him I accept the Dora v P51 duel. Oh; yah, and tell the bastid that was one heluva fight; I enjoyed every minute of it. Best tactial use of E I've ever seen. And give him one of these."
Hang stands; draws his tired frame to attention and snaps off a crisp 'SALUTE'
"Well done; sir."
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Congratulations Hristo!!!!
I was really tense all the time, specially after the 1-1. Then Hang won the 2-1 (I still think that he played a loop in the RoEs there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but well I guess that if there was no specification of hard ceiling before merge, its OK)...
in the 4th fite I asked Ripsnort how was the fight going...he answered that bad for hristo...and just then I saw in the buffer that he won! oh man...I'd have payed to be able to see those fights from hang's or hristo's cockpit!!!!
S! both. I'd love to see both fighting each other in Fw190A8 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) But I guess we had enough with this duel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Salute to you both!
I look forward to the films.
Torquila, I'm mailing the check to HTC after I get back from a 4th of July airshow I'm working.
So, I'm sure they will hold it as a credit to your account; I'll remind them in the letter.
Sounds like it was pretty close most of the way. Not what I would have expected given the G10's climb and acceleration.
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which rounds were flown with each pilot in what kind of aircrafts?
//fats
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I havent been involved in these challenges before, but have flown other duels. I always thought a "lvl 10k merge" meant you climbed to 10k, held that altitude until the merge so you both started with equal E.
Would seem to me that climbing higher, than diving down to the merge altitude would do two things, 1) give one player an unfair advantage, 2) delay the merge while one grabbed himself an E advantage.
Is this typical in these AH challenges to follow this type of practice? Is it agreed upon before the duel? What is the ceiling you can climb to before the merge? Without having these ground rules laid out, it would seem to negate the purpose of "even" duels.
Just curious,
Dago
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Originally posted by Kaplan:
Ok, so if Hristo won then this means that the best pilots fly for Luftwaffe, right..? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
That was never questioned (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
But real test would be squad duel, 8 vs 8 or similar.
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If you want to prove anything about pilots, you need to put everyone in the same plane... The Fairey Fulmar.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Congrats both of you !
Hangtime I hope you enjoy your new plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Maybe you should join to JG2 for next month (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Staga
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Originally posted by Hristo:
[B
But real test would be squad duel, 8 vs 8 or similar.
[/B]
Hristo:
Wire Rude, 13th TAS
"Have Mustangs, Will Travel"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Dago..
Quote "My pony vs yer g10. Navy Duel. Level co-alt pass; 10k at merge, guns cold; then fights on. Best of 5. If I lose; I fly a g10 for tour 6. If you lose; you fly a pony tour 6.
You'll note that the wording was specific.. 10k "AT" merge. Which we did. We were both level and at 10k when we did merge; every time. Neither a/c had any signifivant alt edge at the merge.
The pony does not have the grab a g10 does.. he would be at 10k and building e while I was still gettin there. And; it was about the only thing I could do to put enuff 'e' in the bag to keep him close after the merge. He also used this technique on the last 2 fights.. very well I might add. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Watched all five sorties from Hangs guncam.
Damn good flying by both parties <S>!
This was the atypical P51D vs 190G10 duel.
The G10 simply grabs high and rolls over after merge and strains the 51 to keep the target in fwd glass.
Given the obvious advantage that the 109 had at the start of this duel (co-alt), I am pleased that Hang smoked two out of 5.
The best way to defeat the 109G10 (or any badguy for that matter) is to employ good wing tactics and attack with the advantage of altitude.
Always come down to the fight. Never fight up.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 07-02-2000).]
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It would be interesting to see the fight at 25K instead of 10K
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Yeager that is not good advice.
Always come down to a fight, never up.
well 1/2 people are ALWAYS going to have to go up. Its the people who learn this method of thinking that cannot get themselves out of hairy situations because they are so used to fighting with the deck stacked. Plus, IMHO it isn't fun to fight always with alt advantage, kills are MUCH more satisfying when you kill some alt dweeb bastard who blew his e (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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IMO grabbing over merge alt is wrong, even though you drop to it just as you pass. Saw it constantly in WB duels but I refuse( d ) to do so. Both players come at their max lvl flight speed to the merge is the best way to get fun duels IMO.
//fats
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Originally posted by Baddawg:
It would be interesting to see the fight at 25K instead of 10K
at 25K G10 performs better than a P51.
IMHO, of course.
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Fats,
Are you talking about dissimilar ACM? Or both using the same planes?
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sorry, doubled
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Pretty obvious who's watched the films and who hasn't. To the over-defensive luftwaffles about Hang's merges, look at both films.
Hang's average engagement speed was 280-300 from diving from 12k.
Now look at Hristo's. 375 avg, from level flight on the merge.
In all except the 3rd fight it tended to go this way, where in the 3rd Hang and Hristo's merge speed was near equal, 375.
So before you start with this loop hole, bending rules etc, check the details (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
From the POV of Hang's cockpit it was quite impressive, for all the fights were uphill and it's a proof of each pilot's skill, in both Hristo's ability to hammer head, and ride the 109 under 150 mph where it is mush and deal with it's torque. And in Hang's case, saving every tiny bit of E possible and also remaining in control in climbs below 150 mph where the P51 is also mush.
Also, it's pretty apparent Hristo was not worried about his E state on the merge (About the P-51's max level speed at 10k anyway) and given the 109's climb rate I wouldn't be either. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
GF both of ya, and remember peanut gallery, you were on camera (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Jig
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Hristo...<S>
Good use of a 109 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Could have gone either way IMHO.
Hang...
Well done...he got lucky (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cyas Up!
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/rude.gif)
[This message has been edited by Rude (edited 07-02-2000).]
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Thanks for the free month, Hristo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I knew you'd come through.
<S> to Hangtime! To have won 2 out of 5 against Hristo in his G-10 says volumes to me - you're an excellent pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Toad, so when can I expect that free month? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Great tape from Histo's G10, but coulda done without the annoying message buffer mud.
Not sure of RAM interfering, and calling Hang a cheater, but can say regardless, they took it to the hilt.
Kinda neat.
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Totally agree fats ol' friend - merge at 10k does NOT mean dive to 10k - it means climb to 10k, turn level, and merge - all at 10k.
And yes, I'm back in the arena and h2h. Nice to see ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Not sure of RAM interfering, and calling Hang a cheater
Originally posted by RAM:
(I still think that he played a loop in the RoEs there but well I guess that if there was no specification of hard ceiling before merge, its OK)...
Play a loop is not being a cheater. To fly over agreed hard ceiling (thing not done especifically in the duel) is to cheat. So I say that IMHO Hang played a loop in the RoE as Hristo flew with an own-imposed hard ceiling while Hang didnt.
As you may understand,while flying A fw190 in combat missions while the duel was being done, I wasnt going to say "hey hang played a loop because...etc etc etc." I said "hey Hang cheated there".
If you think that I meant what you say, while I fully knew that Hristo's film was on and the film was to be posted here,then you think I am stupid. And excuse me ,sir, I'm not.
If you dont understand what happened there please go to the school again...or may I say "for the first time?".
Now get lost,Creamo. It is curious that noone said a word about this and you had to start it.
Hang,we both know that I fully respect you as a pilot. I even gave you some tips on 109 flying when you flew against Hristo in same planes, and I have repeated a thousand times that those films posted here with you as a pilot were carefully studied by me.
I hope you see the difference between what I meant and what Creamo says there.
S!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Originally posted by funked:
If you want to prove anything about pilots, you need to put everyone in the same plane... The Fairey Fulmar.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-02-2000).]
Ouch, Fairey Fulmar.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Salute to both!
'Nexx'
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/13TASNexx.gif)
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LOL.. here's an apology without an apology...
Re the merges: Yep.. if we had identical planes; I woulda had the same reaction as most here. Bear in mind that I have many many years on dueling ladders.. and understand how to 'exploit' an ROE. In fact I wrote an ROE that was pretty much un-exploitable for another sim some years back; and provided a working copy of this document to the planners here for AH H2H ladder dueling. Sadly; the planners missed the nuances; and the ROE they came up with is already being exploited. As somebody pointed out in another thread 'it's understood we don't gun on first merge' don't cut it. Catchin a facefull of lead when its 'understood we don't do that' would ruin my day. Nash had every right to be pissed...
In the hard and fast world of the MA an axiom exists.. "Never give the other guy an even break" Since this was dissimilar combat; and I was clear in my own mind what I'd need to make a 10k merge survivable; I did what was necessary to get there. And that included carefully wording my challange acceptance terms with the 'loophole' so roundly booooed above. Life is hard. So is the MA. And I would never accept a duel in dissimilar AC that would give the aircraft with a clear advantage in climb a bonus e advantage as well at the merge. That's just not rational.
Now; since this was neither a formal ladder match in identical planes; nor flown on the H2H function; SEA or TA and had its own pre-specified entirely seperate ROE, its not unreasonable to expect that the ROE specified in the challenge takes precedent over any other pre-concieved ideas you or I may have from Falcon 3; USNF or Warbirds or any other sim ladder ROE including the AH ladder. Again; this was not a ladder match.
It was a duel; I lost it; he won it; and I'm flyin a G10 for the next tour. No complaints here.. and My observer (Jigster) and Ripsnort (Hristo's observer) have both agreed it was acceptable as flown. Case closed; I hope.
RAM.. I was kinda surprised to see your comments in private on Hristo's tape. And dissapointed. Please do not be offended if we bishops do not trust you... it's nice having you fly with us; but I wonder; as I'm sure others have, how much info you pass to yer pals on the other side of the wire. And to be refered to as a cheater; and then to attempt to directly affect the outcome of the fight or influence its participants in that way goes beyond just 'good luck' well-wishing. Don't it?
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Hang, Mail on the way.
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Just noting your interfering in the message buffer, and calling Hang a cheater was annoying, that's all RAM.
Not sure what your blabbing off onto me going to school has to do with that. If it concerns you so much, I went to college along time ago when i was a little boy like you. At least I work with real aircraft, not those little pixels you seem to be such a expert on. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://ckremer.home.mindspring.com/CREAMO2000.jpg)
Anyways, interesting tape, you guys should do another.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Just noting your interfering in the message buffer, and calling Hang a cheater was annoying, that's all RAM.
The wise man knows to see beyond the mountain in front of him. The simple one only says "oh, look, the world ends there"
I said what it was of interest here. I sent a mail to Hangtime, as he is the only one I mind in this matter. Think whatever you want Creamo. your problem not mine.
[edit] and BTW, I feel no greed about that photo. I flew a plane by myself (with an instructor by my side of course) when I was 17 and one month. I took off, flew and landed by myself.
So dont worry you arent the only one here who sat in a real cockpit.[edit]
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Copy that RAM.. will have to wait till I get home from work to access the email tho.
One of the things that keeps me interested in the sim are the personalities involved.. and you are one. (So's Creamo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) Your boundless levels of enthusiasim and off-the wall surprises and wit keep me smiling. I ain't mad at 'cha.. just surprised; is all. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cya's Up!
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Hey, guys, this fight you had was great!!! Toad made it even more exciting with the betting!! The films were excellent(I looked at both side films,got them saved too)and exciting!! Big <S> to two excellent pilots!!!!
P.S.
I made a ton of money in the grandstands.<walks outa room with $100.00 bills falling outa pockets>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Despite Hangtime's approach to the merge, as Jigster pointed out, Hangtime was 100mph slower on every merge but the third. Makes what he did completely irrelevant.
100mph slower.
That's pretty signicicant. With dissimular AC, instead of the emphasis being placed on the hard ceiling, a co-speed merge should have been agreed to.
Fantastic flying both of you. <S>
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Congrats Hristo, you've proven that Luftwaffe is the side where the skill is hiding from allies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(But let that P-51 loss be because of bad fuel provided by allies on purpose, or I am dissapointed! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
Got to see what happens when they get Dora for us (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) (even though I do personally like Wuergers more)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/fishu/handsoff.jpg)
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I thought I pretty funny that RAM was climbing out with Hang from 25 and chatting a bit, and later makes some crack about how to catch a diving Mustang to Hristo on a private channel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
IMO the speed difference meant nill; Hristo was simply using an advantage of his plane in the given rules of the game.
So there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
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The results of this duel did not surpise me in the slightess.
Anyone one suspect that the LW had some clue about aircraft climb and speed over agility?
I would always take altitude and speed. Then I am the one who dictates the fight, not my opponent.
(http://my.ispchannel.com/~jfaries/51vs109G10.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"One more dead brain cell and you're a talking monkey."
Yankee
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Regardless of the disparity in the performance of the plane types; I still consider the pony to be the superior A/C.
And I obviously have no leg to stand on other than the tattered remmanants of the stumps Hristo left me. I ask that you humor me for a moment; and consider...
The pony rewards a pilot that treats her right by giving back to him that little bit more 'e' hold in a turn, a little more roll.. a little more zoom... I dunno; you just get that 'feeling' that there's more there; and all you just have to is tickle her just right to bring it out. Even mushing on the stall; she still wants to go.. and I think she'd have won the fight if I wasn't so damn stupid.
The worst feeling in the world is knowing the plane didn't let me down.. I just plain blew it. I've flown the G10 enuff now to know the diffrence between brute strength and finesse.. and the pony shines with finesse when she's at the top of her form.
On the other hand, the G10 needs a healthy kick on the stick and rudder to horse around a turn.. she bucks and fights the pilot every moment. She's a butt ugly squeak in a fight; but not someone you ever trust for even a second with your back turned... let alone take home in the daylight.
The pony if flown with the same heavy hand that tames the reluctant G10 will just fold her wings... or snap out of the turn and stall. But stroke her up gently and she can surprise the hell outta anything in the sky.
My apologies to the Mustang Men out there.. I didn't give our ride the hands she needed to win the day; but she was willin. And able. Our bird did not fail... I did.
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-03-2000).]
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Originally posted by leonid:
Toad, so when can I expect that free month? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Planning on sending a check to HTC on the 5th, asking them to credit your account. Same with Torquila only asking them to delay it until he requests it be used.(I'm off flying in a 4th of July airshow right now, sorry for the delay. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
So, I'd guess your August would be free? Will let you know what they say.
BTW, I'm damned proud of Hang. I think he did a truly excellent job overall, particularly considering the disparity in climb rates and accleration. I also think it could have gone the other way quite easily.
<S> to both the contestants. Great films to watch on both sides. Worth the $$ for those alone!
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Regardless of the disparity in the performance of the plane types; I still consider the pony to be the superior A/C.
The pony rewards a pilot that treats her right by giving back to him that little bit more 'e' hold in a turn, a little more roll.. a little more zoom... I dunno; you just get that 'feeling' that there's more there; and all you just have to is tickle her just right to bring it out. Even mushing on the stall; she still wants to go.. and I think she'd have won the fight if I wasn't so damn stupid.
The worst feeling in the world is knowing the plane didn't let me down.. I just plain blew it. I've flown the G10 enuff now to know the diffrence between brute strength and finesse.. and the pony shines with finesse when she's at the top of her form.
On the other hand, the G10 needs a healthy kick on the stick and rudder to horse around a turn.. she bucks and fights the pilot every moment. She's a butt ugly squeak in a fight; but not someone you ever trust for even a second with your back turned... let alone take home in the daylight.
The pony if flown with the same heavy hand that tames the reluctant G10 will just fold her wings... or snap out of the turn and stall. But stroke her up gently and she can surprise the hell outta anything in the sky.
My apologies to the Mustang Men out there.. I didn't give our ride the hands she needed to win the day; but she was willin. And able. Our bird did not fail... I did.
Somehow all of those allie planes does few things better... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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this is the dorkiest dude i have ever seen in my life...i wouldnt want to fly on a plane this dork was working on...look at that toothless wonder....he is the poster child for birth control...are you diddlying kidding me...what the diddly is the world coming too...creamo what the diddly is your retarded problem...get a dentist or something...these losers dont deserve you...turbo out.
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All things aside, it was a great duel for me.
Felt like 109K vs Spit XIV duels back from WB.
At start, I expected to get above the P 51D easily and dictate the fight afterwards. I knew 25% and 4 .50 cal P 51D to be really dangerous in a knifefight (read: better than G-10, all characteristics combined). However, I could not afford the luxury of taking less than 50% fuel in my G-10. There would be to much pressure for me to quickly end the fight and it would probably resulted in a mistake.
P 51D with 25% has lower wingloading than 25% fuel G-10, right ? Now take 2 .50 cals from P 51D. Put 25% more fuel in G-10. Drop 1 notch of flaps on P 51D.
What you get ?
You get the fight we had there. 2 planes very closely matched. Much like that Dora vs P51 duel from Shaw's book. Powerloading vs wingloading.
At times I felt like I was fighting a Spitfire, not a Pony. Yes, I could win the vertical, but not by a big margin. Hang could put his nose on me most times and it really surprised me. This was a warning to me from start - do not enter a turnifight with Hang's P 51. E-fight him instead. In AH those two planes come very close in a knifefight and little things make the difference. Just watch that 4th fight with endless deck flat turn. Not the brightest approach, but once we were there the first man to disengage dies.
As for merge tactics, I was surprised with it. It never happened to me in previous HTH, but I do not mind it. If Hang did not dive to the merge, the fight would be one sided indeed. Also, note that I took the same approach in fight 5.
If we were co-E (no merge diving), a single Immelmann would put me on top. However, we were obviously co-E and I needed time to make that RoC work. Putting myself in front of light P 51D and expecting rate of climb to pull me out instantly would be stupid. So I did those two spirals. They were the answer to Hang's merge tactic. The text buffer misses something I said to myself there, going something like this: "...OK, you opportunist merge diver, now I show you the DB 605 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...". I shouldn't have underestimated the merge approach. It was a valid tactic, not speciffically forbidden in RoE and thus acceptable. Smart advice Hang, I wonder who gave it to you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
G-10 is much better 1 on 1 plane than it is in arena. It shines in some aspects (powerloading), but terribly lacks in other important aspects (guns, high speed handling, 6 view, roll rate). IMO, it is not a good arena plane. While fighting the enemy, you get to fight your plane too. Sure you can trust it after certain time, but not as much as to other planes. In fact, caught low on the deck, I always felt safer in 190A-8 than in G-10. In A-5 I actually enjoy getting bounced low and slow (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
A-5 is the best plane Luftwaffe has in AH at the moment. Jack of all trades, master of none. except roll rate it is average in all other aspects. With competent pilot, however, it reminds me of well flown Spit - dangerous, with enough tricks in its sleeve to successfully defend itself.
Salute, Hangtime ! This was the best way to end my 109 carrier.
Hristo, a wannabe 190 pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 07-04-2000).]
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Now, how about a rematch ?
P 51D vs 190A-5, icons off, squad duel, SEA.
Any takers ?
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Aww, hangtime, 109G10 an ugly squeak that fights you when you fly her?
But she makes such SWEET luvvin! And while she is ugly ikn a way, her fierce looks make her the most sexy prop plane out there!
Yeah, roll rate sucks. Low speed handling takes some power to handle, and hi speed handling - well if she had some, I would be happy. Trim characteristics are nasty.
But the acceleration and climb, my oh my they are good. For dweebs like me who blow their e (I blame it on bad roll etc heheheh) and enter a scissor movements with an enemy, it's lovely. Pull out when the window opens, WEP on, extend. Begin a spiral climb and come back.
You're right, it's brute strength versus finesse. But the strength itself is beautiful (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Going to watch films now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
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Santa is right, G-10 kind of captures you after some time.
But it is far from being a perfect plane, oh no !
The times I loved it the most were when I was low on the deck, being bounced by Spits or Nikis. There was no way to outdive them, no way to outrun them, something else had to be done. Scissor, cut power, go into blackout, reverse and cross paths. The second I see the Spit coming almost HO I know I can get away, for that DB 605 acts like a rocket booster. Almost if the plane should be named Daimler-Benz instead of Messerschmitt.
But 190 is a plane with far greater potential than 109. Currently A-5 is best plane in AH, IMO. Not best in any catogory, but more than decent in everything. To see where this 190 potential leads, we need to get the Dora. Powerloading nearing those of G series 109 and all best characteristics of 190 series.
Now one step further. What do you think the best no-icon plane would be ? P 51D ? P 38 or Jug ? 109 ? Spitfire ? Cannon Hog ? Or little 190A ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
My apologies to the Mustang Men out there.. I didn't give our ride the hands she needed to win the day; but she was willin. And able. Our bird did not fail... I did.
Nonsense Hang. Dont take it so hard man, stang pilots like yurself are the inspiration for many a learning P51 pilot - like myself. Eveyone stuffs up from time to time.
I love the P51, and i agree she just feels right when you fly it, a real gem.
SALUTE!
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Overlord Spatula
if you adhere to all the rules you miss out on all the fun
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_sig1.jpg)
=357th Pony Express=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 07-04-2000).]
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Originally posted by Hristo:
At start, I expected to get above the P 51D easily and dictate the fight afterwards. I knew 25% and 4 .50 cal P 51D to be really dangerous in a knifefight (read: better than G-10, all characteristics combined). However, I could not afford the luxury of taking less than 50% fuel in my G-10. There would be to much pressure for me to quickly end the fight and it would probably resulted in a mistake.
I'd say that you would had done alot better with more realistic fuel consuming rate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hristo.. thanks for the kind words. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
2 things.. the gun package was 6 .50's. Yes I had some advice.. use 4 instead of 6. I decided to take six.. knowing that snapshots were going to be the predominant targeting opportnities. 6 .50's are weak enuff in a snapshot... 4 would be hopeless.
As for the opportunist merges.. lol.. my idea, hence my mistake as they in the end cost me more than I gained. I should have been much closer to you on the merges with no vertical seperation at all.. instead, anxious to be below 10k on the last merges I went under you, putting us almost 700 yards apart. Those 700 yards made a BIG diffrence on the spiral climbs you initiated after the merges.
As for the Dora v P51 duel.. I'm looking forward to it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Same ROE, but I'll never again wager my pony... the price of flying this gawdamned g10 for a month is way too high.
I'd like to answer your squad challenge, at least a with a 2 v 2 as Thunder; my assigned wingie is very good with a pony in a knifefight, and would certainly accept. However; I'm unable to do so; as my current ride is not a pony. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Release me from the wager, allow me to train up my wingies a bit and we could have a heluva fight... if nothing else; I'd be game for a 1 v 1, my pony vs your nasty little A4 in the SEA. You may set the ROE for such a fight; I think this could be a lotta fun. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute!
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/hangtime.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-04-2000).]
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Hristo;
CC Well spoken... <S>
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"One more dead brain cell and you're a talking monkey."
Yankee
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Originally posted by Jigster:
I thought I pretty funny that RAM was climbing out with Hang from 25 and chatting a bit, and later makes some crack about how to catch a diving Mustang to Hristo on a private channel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<SIGH> I gave Hangtime some tips in G10 handling when he flew it against Hristo. I gave Hristo some tips in P51 use (in fact I only told him not forgetting flap use).
I wanted Hristo to win the duel, that is no secret. And If I gave him a tip in taking a DT until he saw if Hang was going to keep the fite close or not, it was because I knew that hristo was concerned with it. I even went in a H2H arena to train with him, me in P51 he in G10 (of course I bite dust).
Is there any problem in me trying to help my favorite to win?...<SIGH>
I am really tired of this. Think whatever you want. I dont mind.
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OOPS double post!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-04-2000).]
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Hmmm....I go for that! Release Hangtime from his 109G and I will be glad to wing him against the Lufftberries in a 2 v 2 Knife Fight! I would need a week to work and train with him before the duel. I think that would be a fun fight. It may point up some other aspects of the pony not seen in the 1 v 1 duel. What do you say? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/thunder.gif)
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Not yet, guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Let's make this bigger than 2 vs 2. 8 vs 8 at least.
When ? Don't know, how many would participate on both sids ?
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Lets work our way up and learn as we go. I say we start with 2 vs 2 then 3 vs 3 and keep going up. We will all benefit from lessons learned and it should give us some insights for the next match. Lets have some fun with this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/thunder.gif)
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<S> Hristo and Hang,
Great films!
Hang if your looking for another pony for the 8 v 8, id love to!