Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: SpinDoc1 on February 25, 2002, 07:03:42 PM
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Ok so I'm fighting a zero this afternoon. Once I fought him in an F6F and once in an La7. Both times he creamed me. I know I can outrun him, but other than that he's got me! Every time I extended away and looped back or turned back to fight him he would dodge me and then he would end up on my 6 about d400 or so. I would dodge his bullets again till out of range again. Any suggestions for defeating this wily guy?
Spins
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come back with an altitude advantage and rope him. thats just about the only way i've found to beat them. unless they're already fixated on another friendly. both the F6F and la7 have an outstanding zoom climb. the zeke's is...well...pathetic. all it takes is a few .50's to rip a zeke in half. thats my suggestion. im sure somebody who is 10x better than me will come in here with a huge explanation and you will have a better chance at beating them. sorry...im not real good at how-to questions. i try tho:D
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For a co-E engangement, you need to speed up the fight. Try to set up a base speed of 350 mph and keep turning with the Zeke this way. The Zeke will need to slow down a lot to be able to turn with you and then you will be fast enough to change the fight into vertical looking for a snap shot. If you play the rope-a-dope game against the Zeke, be aware, that bird is able to keep hung looking at you for an ethernity in a zoom climb.
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Without an alt advantage the only way to best the Zeke is pretty much what mandoble said, keep it fast. The Zero can't turn or roll well at high speeds. Trying to mix it up in close with a zeke at low speeds is suicide in any plane. Keep it fast, hit and run, double team or if you have no strange compulsions against it the Head On attack works if you're in a sufficiently rugged airplane such as the F6F. But as allways this leaves you open to damage as well and will be regarded by some prudes as "dweebish" :D
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Another mover - I try bouncing those suckers and they always get out of the way too fast. At my closing speeds I can't get the angle right to waste them. Of course, I don't risk as much since I have all the E to climb with. But when I do try to extend and reverse sometimes they pull the Immelman on me and I'm toast. That thing seems to eat me for lunch all the time. I'm trying my best to hone my skills but this plane is a major stopping point!
J
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I know what you mean.
There's a thing I call 'the 51-Zero Dilemma'. When two people are within the same skill range, there's no way a Zero can win against a P-51, but also, as funny as it seems, there's no way for a P-51 to shoot down a Zero. Two planes that are so drastically different in performance that when both pilots refuse to give up their advantages, nobody wins.
A good Zero pilot keeps turning just enough to get out of the P-51's aiming point but keeps his E steady, a good P-51 pilot follows the Zero up to his aiming point but cannot follow the Zero in any sort of way more than that. Frustration builds on both sides. This sort of fight usually ends when one pilot lands a pure 80% lucky snap shot and damages someone. A P-51 might put in a just unbelievably amazing blind-lead shot and end the Zero, or a Zero pilot lands a 500-600 yard shot the moment P-51 zooms by.
In this sort of fight, E management brings you up only enough to keep you alive for both sides. All other things become pointless, and the single most important aspect kicks in - gunnery. Will it be the P-51 landing a superb blind-lead deflection shot? Or will it be the Zero pilot's excellent reflexes that catches the P-51 zooming past?
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About "blind-lead shots".
I use the following method to shotdown Spits and Zekes flying D9. P51 has much better ballistics and range than D9, so it should work even better with the Pony.
- Never use the gunsight to aim at the enemy unless he is flying straight and level.
- There are 3 possible forward views:
1 - Default forward view (No key pressed)
2 - Forward view while pressing Kp8
3 - Forward view while pressing KP1 and KP7
In my case, I keep the view 1 as default, view 2 with the head elevated to a point where I see the convergence point at the middle of the cockpit frontal glass and view 3 with maximum elevation of the head.
For the lead pursuit shots with the enemy turning hard I use view 3, for smoother turning I use view 2, and almost never view 1 while shooting. No more "blind-lead" shots.
Hope this help.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
- There are 3 possible forward views:
1 - Default forward view (No key pressed)
2 - Forward view while pressing Kp8
3 - Forward view while pressing KP1 and KP7
In my case, I keep the view 1 as default, view 2 with the head elevated to a point where I see the convergence point at the middle of the cockpit frontal glass and view 3 with maximum elevation of the head.
For the lead pursuit shots with the enemy turning hard I use view 3, for smoother turning I use view 2, and almost never view 1 while shooting. No more "blind-lead" shots.
Hope this help. [/B]
Mandoble -
Would you mind sending me or attaching screen shots of your views 2 and 3? I'm having trouble setting my views up as you described.
I find that when I d/f, the enemy is "behind" the nose of my a/c and I spend a good deal of time guessing where he is due to the blind-lead shots. Of course then I have to spray and hope I get a couple of hits. Then I have to let the plane come back into view to see if I scored hits. Course, if I didin't, then I have to pull hard for the lead again and shoot. The nose of my a/c porpoises all over the sky as I shoot and look, shoot and look. I really hate that. If your views help fix this, I would be eternally in your debt :D
My email is modas@cutthroats.com. I appreciate your help!
Modas
8=X Cutthroats
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Modas, be ready to be eternally in debt with me then :D
I'll send you the screenshots of views 2 and 3 today night.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Modas, be ready to be eternally in debt with me then :D
I'll send you the screenshots of views 2 and 3 today night.
Mandoble -
I'll start by sending over my first born by Fed-EX. He should arrive sometime Monday ;). Be advised, he's a real ankle biter
Thanks for the help
Modas
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Originally posted by Modas
Mandoble -
I'll start by sending over my first born by Fed-EX. He should arrive sometime Monday ;). Be advised, he's a real ankle biter
Thanks for the help
Modas
I WANNA BE IN DEBT TO MANDOBLE TOO!!
I've got a teenager that grumbles a lot if ya want him :D
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Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
Ok so I'm fighting a zero this afternoon. Once I fought him in an F6F and once in an La7. Both times he creamed me. I know I can outrun him, but other than that he's got me! Every time I extended away and looped back or turned back to fight him he would dodge me and then he would end up on my 6 about d400 or so. I would dodge his bullets again till out of range again. Any suggestions for defeating this wily guy?
Spins
There are some simple rules to remember when fighting Zeros (Zekes).
1) Never, ever attempt to turn with a Zero at speeds below 300 mph.
2) Should you find a Zero on your six, and your speed is below 250 mph,
never climb or attempt a vertical maneuver.
3) Passing on the merge, never reverse until at least d.2.5 of separation.
If you reverse too close, you will find yourself crossing in front of the Zero, which can turn around in a remarkably tight radius. Extend, build E, climb and then reverse. If unsure of what to do, simply sail on by and continue… The Zero will not be able to catch you.
What to do to shake off a Zero.
1) Unload to zero G, extend and build E, once above 300 mph, roll sharply and turn 90 degrees. Extend again. Repeat until the Zero turns away for an easier target. Each of the above maneuvers will gain you about d.0.5.
2) Split-S and dive clear, The Zero accelerates poorly in a dive and begins groaning at about 410 mph. If you are above 5k, you can easily escape. Here's another tip: Never dive in a straight line. Instead, gradually steepen the dive (don't try this below 5k), keeping you below the Zeros line of sight as you pull away. This will force the zero to push his over further, if he wants to try a shot. The result being that the Zero loses aileron and elevator control quicker, possibly causing it to auger in, but certainly making it much harder to track you. Once you exceed 450 mph, ease out of the dive, roll and turn to disengage. By now, the Zero will too far away and off angle to be a threat.
Killing Zeros.
This takes a certain level of patience. Unless you catch one unaware, you will have to work at killing the Zeke.
Slashing attacks are best. However, you will need much better than average deflection shooting skills to be consistently successful. Why? Because, the Zero will give nothing but bad angles.
Be advised, however, that a decent Zero pilot will suck you in to a trap if you are not real careful. When I fly the Zero, I watch for pilots setting up lead pursuits. When they do, I will gradually tighten my turn, forcing him to do so as well, to keep his lead. As my attacker bleeds his E trying to hold position, I'll simply pull into a high yo-yo, roll in the opposite direction and drop right onto his 6. My rule is simple, I never hold a lead pursuit for more than 90 degrees of turn when engaging a Zero. Moreover, as soon as the Zero tightens the turn, I'll roll opposite, bear-off and extend, returning moments later when I have re-established the tactical advantage.
My regards,
Widewing
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Im not trying to state that I'm an expert or anything, but I've been flying the Zeke quite a bit this tour, and I have encountered what Kweassa stated: "The 51-zero dilemma."
I refuse to be pulled into a vertical fight in the Zero and use a lot of out of plane maneuvers to spoil my enemy's shots in his dive on me. I then haul around and take a few pot shots of my own at the enemy.
The best way to beat up a zeke is to gang up on him. (Caveat: I shot down a 4 plane raid one day consisting of 1 P51D, 1 Mosquito, 1 Spitfire, and one Typhoon. Though this was with a generous helping of luck on my part, I proved it can be done, and the Zeke can be a blatant killer. ;) )
I seem to have the worst time trying to defend in a multiple bandit situation. I can survive the first 2 or 3 attacks, but by then, I've lost a lot of E, or the fight has gone real low, and soon I will get nailed by someone. When I'm flying an energy fighter and I encounter a Zeke, I leave him be unless I have a quick opportunity to strike from his rear quarter, and I NEVER try to turn with him if he sees me, instead I gain alt and move off and hope I gain an opportunity later.
Hope this helps some.
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Thanks a lot for all the advice guys! I had an opportunity to one on one with a decent zeke pilot last night (I was in spit) and was able to outrun him and then outturn him when I had the alt advantage. Thanks again, I appreciate.
Jason
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Modas, time to check your e-mail and start practicing almost blind shots. :D
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Modas, time to check your e-mail and start practicing almost blind shots. :D
Are these views based on the views Snefens has for download or totally different? If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see a screenshot of views #2 and #3 myself. Would it be easier for you to post them to this board or to email me?
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Modas, time to check your e-mail and start practicing almost blind shots. :D
Yep, I got the screen shots. Most excellent. It has helped IMMENSLY!! I smoked a p51 at 500 yard in a fairly hard turn last night. Saw the tracers all the way to the target. No more spray and pray for me!! :D
Is there a way to map multiple FORWARD views? Not just the standard KP views? I would like to be able to assign a forward view that has been shifted all the way left and all the way right and at the same time, keep the standard forward view that I already have?
Thanks for the help on this Mandoble!! :cool:
Modas
8=X Cutthroats
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I would also like to see these views. I would be most appreciative if Mandoble (or someone with his permission) would post them here or make them available for download. Thanks for the help!
- JNOV
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I have tried to set up the views as you describe, Mandoble, both in a P51 and 190D9. The elevated forward view seems alright. I haven't tried it in combat yet, but I can see the convergence point above my gunsight. I undertsand how this view minimizes blind snap shots while still allowing one to aim using the convergence point.
I cannot, howver, set up the KP-1 and KP-3 views so that I can see the convergence point. I can almost get there in the 51 but not in the D9. I am missing something here? If not, how do you use those views effectively? Namely, if you can see neither the convergence point nor the gunsight, how do you use front-side views to put lead on your target?
Thanks for any help you can provide!
- JNOV
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MANDOBLE, I would also like to see 'em :D
Can you post 'em here? If not, would U mind emailing?
nimitz@huckabay.net (nimitz@huckabay.net)
TY S!
Nim
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
About "blind-lead shots".
- There are 3 possible forward views:
1 - Default forward view (No key pressed)
2 - Forward view while pressing Kp8
3 - Forward view while pressing KP1 and KP7
Didn't realize kp1 and kp7 yielded a third front view. Thanks for the tip. BTW, I found that kp9 and kp3 yield a fourth view, even better.
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Bah! You damn elevated head weenies. Learn how to predict the enemy's flight path while pulling a blind lead shot without elevating your head unrealistically. And do it without using tracers.
If I can do it, I know each and every last one of you can do it too. :) Of course, IMO it's more a matter of what you're used to than what works or doesn't work. Whatever you're used to and have the most practice doing will bring you the most success.
-- Todd/Leviathn, who uses the gunsight to aim
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As was already mentioned, the most effective tactic against the zeke is the head on, in my experience. I'm always amazed at how many zeke pilots will accept the HO. It's the only opponent I face where I look for the HO as my first choice, unless I have a significant E advantage...or I'm in a zeke as well. The latter case is when the fun really starts though. :D
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I don't use the extra views for shooting, find it too disorienting to change while in a fight. I do find 'em handy for landing on a cv. Now I can easily and quickly switch between full left/forward/up and full right/forward/up.