Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funkedup on February 27, 2002, 09:27:46 PM
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Dude these guys could give HTC some great FM data on T-Rex!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020227/ap_on_sc/t_rex_s_stride_1
My favorite part was Martin Lockley, professor of geology and handsomehunk:
Animals are not machines. These animals were dynamic and flexible...
Uhh machines ARE dynamic and flexible. What does this guy think all the engineers spend all their time figuring out in those big buildings, the ones where all the research funding goes?
It just goes to show that ignorant FM whiners are everywhere, not just AH. :D
"T-Rex could run, I saw it on Land of the Lost!"
"F4U could out-turn A6M, I saw it on Baa Baa Black Sheep!"
OK OT I know, but....
:)
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Theres actually a good debate going on about the T-rex. Its quite probable the T-rex was a scavenger 1st and a hunter 2nd.
For one, a Predator would definetely NOT benefit from such short arms. They are useless for grappling a foe, useless for anything BUT holding down something that cant move any more (a carcass).
Then you have the massive feet and bulk. Chances are its top speed was really slow, another thing that a predator NEEDS to develop. Plus its toe/talons were shown as being not very good at absorbing shocks..like the one caused by running. A scavenger oth, actually SAVES energy by moving slowly as it moves towards the next meal.
They may have hunted large, slow dinosaurs like the bronto or something.
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me and a buddy of mine were talking about the prehistoric stuff just today. im not very intelligent on this subject...but it seems to me that a lot of scientist today are stating things of which, to me, they have no logical way to figure out.
i was watching a program on the discovery channel about a bunch of prehistoric toejam. they were stating "facts" about things like eye sight, appatite, even what thier favorite meals were. how would they figure stuff like this out?
is this just a tad "off" to anybody else?
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Fossil toejam?
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Pimpjoe, you can tell a lot from characteristics of bones etc, and comparing it it to other known related cases; reptiles and general biodynamics in this context.
There was a mechanical study of the TRex's skeleton (and implied body) that 'guessed' it could not run too fast for too long (as two independent vars) without exceeding it's balance.
It was something a bit if not much slower than what Jurassic Park (I or II....?) shows chasing the jeep. Made a comparison instead of a number because I can't remember the exact speed the article gave.
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A bull elephant can scoot right along.I wonder if these "geniuses" tried applying that model to one of those...lmao.
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Of course you all know it was Kurt Tank who layed out the enginerring for the first TA-Rex/ru-1 after stealing the basics from the earlier Howard Hughes' Allosaurus racing meat eater.
;)
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Men walk.
Apes walk.
Men are apes.
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but it seems to me that a lot of scientist today are stating things of which, to me, they have no logical way to figure out.
That's exactly what these guys are trying to confront. They are doing a physical analysis of the remains and using modern simulation tools to come up with an upper bound for the speed of locomotion of the animal. I.e. taking the claims of the fuzzy thinkers and seeing how well they stand up to the laws of physics. Now without reading their paper I can't say whether their analysis was valid or not, but having some familiarity with the subject I can tell you that gait dynamics and control is a fairly well understood field. It wouldn't be "rocket science" to look at the skeleton of the animal and create a mathematical model to come up with an estimate of the maximum speed it could reach.
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Apes dont walk. They can stand on their back feet and (and i'll steal an anime term here) "gerwalk". The pelvis of gorillas and chimps and any other primate except humans only allows them to stand upright,albeit not for very long, and it does not allow them to run on their back feet. They may hop, wobble around, but when they run or have to do something important, they do it in all 4's.
:)
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Originally posted by Qnm
Men walk.
Apes walk.
Men are apes.
LOL, lets try that logic this way:
Fish lay eggs.
Chickens lay eggs.
Fish are chickens.
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Some men Are apes :cool:
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Originally posted by Tac
They may have hunted large, slow dinosaurs like the bronto or something.
The apatosaurus (real name of brontosaurus) can be compared with the elefant, almost the same biological niche.
Like the elefant today, the apatosaurus, brachiosaurus, etc. etc. had no predators capable to hunt them, a 7 tons predator (a T-rex) vs. a 70 tons pray (in case of a Brachiosaurus), with a very dangerous tail (think, the Brachiosaurus tail was heavier of the entire T-rex).
Anyway they are of different times: Giurassic and cretacic.
BTW, there's a theory about the T-rex as a ambush hunter, jumping out from wood to attack the pray.
It's really difficult to say if was scavenger or hunter, the structure can adapt for both roles, the real problem is the metabolism, it depends if the actual bird metabolism was already present in dinosaurs or is a recent acquisition.
If the metabolism was "hot blood" (or somethink like), they had the energy to run to the pray.
Like the Dromaeousaridae family(Velociraptor and similia).
Something like the lion.
Hide (incredible, uh?)..
Move slowly to attack position.
and then RUN!!! for few seconds...
Missed, damn, I suck :(
Rest for a while
;)
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And some men are Chickens.
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Women lay eggs also periodically, is that why some call them chicken?
When you call a woman chicken outloud, you get moved down on the pecking order (which is a very chickenish feature in itself.)
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I agree with PimpJoe, there's a lot of speculation being passed off as established fact. I'm always reminded of that Monty Python animated sequence were a giant big toe is discovered by archeologists, who proceed to re-assemble the original animal: a mastodon with a big toe for a trunk.
Dinosaurs are big money, entertainment wise, so when someone sets out to make a dinosaur documentary they seem to only interview scientists who are willing to play along with the 'we know everything' game. For all we know T-Rex was covered with bright pink fur and ate pine cones.
A full grown elephant is the only land mammal that can't jump, not even 1 inch. The reason is that the heavier a land animal gets, the more of it's body weight is required just to defy gravity enough to move around. The same phenomenon can be seen in snakes. A 6 inch snake can slither around fast as lightning, but a 30 foot anaconda can barely move on land, and must wait in ambush for it's food.
If T-Rex was 2 or 3 times as heavy as a modern day elephant, it was likely quite a slug.
ra
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Actually, ra, the elephants run faster than humans.
I don't recall what the top speed was, but it was a lot. :)
I wouldn't want to be in the way of a stampeeding flock of elephants.
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Originally posted by ra
If T-Rex was 2 or 3 times as heavy as a modern day elephant, it was likely quite a slug.
ra
T-Rex was (estimated) 7 tons, like a male elephant.
And yes, the elephant run surprisingly fast.
Dont stand on theyr path ;)
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[/2nd degree]
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i.e. that's my point Rip.
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I never said an elephant was slower than a human. Even a poodle can run faster than a human. But an elephant is slow in comparison to the length of its legs, and an animal that heavy wouldn't make much of a predator if it can't even jump over a small obstacle. So if T-Rex weighed the same as an elephant, it probably lumbered around. T-Rex has the added disadvantage of only 2 legs, where 4 legs are always better for speed, all else being equal. The fastest 2 legged animal is an ostrich, but it has very long legs and only weighs around 300 lbs. It is built for speed, imagine how fast it would be if it had 4 legs.
If T-Rex was a predator, its prey must have been very sluggish. It could also have been a scavenger, egg eater, fisher, ambush hunter, or some combination. We'll probably never know, but don't tell that to the people who make documentaries.
ra
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I think an eleiphant can run sumwhere around 30 mph
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They say the birds are evolved from the dinosaurs. Remember the special feature birds have?
They're the only species that has strong enough muscles to fly effectively. :)
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Hitech aaand some men choke their chickens...but that's a whole nother story ain't it :D :cool:
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Those academic guys are wrong.
T-Rexes are supposed to go top speed of 45mph at deck alts
with MW50 boost. Everybody knows that.
Those academic buffoons are making up words just so they
can perk the T-Rex, what wimps!!
:D
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No God no Adam and Eva
no toejamty ark off noach
one big bang
just evolution
i like archeologists
BUG322
=Twin Engined Devils=
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I just wanna see "Grumpy," and "Alice," One more time!
Gotta love claymation! :)
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For one, a Predator would definetely NOT benefit from such short arms. They are useless for grappling a foe, useless for anything BUT holding down something that cant move any more (a carcass).
Tac:
That is pure non-sense.
I flew and am again going to fly raptors. A Hawk doesn't have any arms, does that mean it can't hunt? And must be a scavenger? NOT. A raptors weapons are it's feet, and the T-Rex main weapons would have been it's feet too. One kick from a T-Rex would send any dinosaur rolling except for the largest. Those large ones would just have massive internal damage.
AKEagle+
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Fish have no offensive appendages to speak of..they have teeth, and quickness.
I wouldn't want to see T-Rex H2H and wonder IF he was a scavenger, in any scenario. He probably wouldnt need to "run" fast anyway, since, he's 20+ feet tall, as his gait would be too large he wouldnt need a high bipedalic tunover, like a raptor does, at 6 feet high