Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JoeCrip on March 05, 2002, 05:02:14 AM
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There has been a lotta things going on in the MA lately...but this one stands out the most. I'm sure everyone has been in this situation one time or another:
- I will be deacking a base. When i de-ack a base I kill AI ack first, then mannable.
This is what annoy's me
When i am de-acking a base, someone Always hop's in the mannable ack. He just sits there, and wait's for the AI ack to kill me, so he can pick up a free kill.
Are people that desprite to get a single kill these days?
I'm not really sure how this can be fixed...but lowering the ack letality, so that 3 pings will kill you instead of 1 ping, IMO is a good idea
-Edited for spelling-
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The problem stems from having lots of 37mm aaa at a field and the AH damage model shedding wings/tails on 1 ping.
Either less 37mm and more .50cal aaa or a change to the damage model would solve your problem mate.
And feel exactly the same way.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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JoeCrip,
How do you know its the AI ack and not the mannable ack which has killed you?
Gremlin.
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Yeah especially since the manned ack has invisible tracers, there's just no way to tell which ack hits you - unless it's plain obvious like flying directly over ack which manages to ping you before its death due to lag.
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It doesnt matter which ack hit me, If you de-ack a base, and ack kills you (weather it be manned or AI), ifsomeone is in the manned ack, they will get the kill
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For me manned acks annoying due to one reason -- guy who fire them see tracers, you do not see them. Not sure if it is bug or feature. At least when manned acks were added tracers were seen.
Fariz
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Yea, forgot to mention that. There are no tracers for manned ack.
Is this a bug or a feature?
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
It doesnt matter which ack hit me, If you de-ack a base, and ack kills you (weather it be manned or AI), ifsomeone is in the manned ack, they will get the kill
Hi Joe,
but it's the same if you are in a plane and ack kills the enemy. If you are next to him you'll also get the kill, so i don't really find this annoying.
The "Tracer-Problem" is a problem for sure.
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
It doesnt matter which ack hit me, If you de-ack a base, and ack kills you (weather it be manned or AI), ifsomeone is in the manned ack, they will get the kill
JoeCrip,
You see it does matter. Your original post complained about guys picking up 'freebie' kills. This is true if he just sits there until the AI ack kills you. But if he kills you with mannable ack than thats fair enough? The point fariz makes about tracers is spot on but its another argument.
My 2cents worth is that AI acks are far too accurate. Basically if you get within 1click of a full field your dead. Have you ever seen the old footage of planes straffing fields. They often made multible passes without ack ever getting near them.
I just stay away from field ack now and leave it to the buff guys.
To add to your point JoeCrip, I am still to fathom the depths some people will go to to get one lousy kill. All you have to do is just look at some of the gangbangs. Last night I was in a P51D and counted 17 nits chasin me. I got two kills when some of them appeared to killshooter them selves to get to me. Out of that 17 12 were spits 3 were nikis. I wish these guys would just go back to quake arena and leave AH to the rest of us.
The things that annoy me most at the moment are.
gangbangin, la7's, co e bandits runnin for ack cause they dont have the skill to fight 1v1 co-e, b-26 laser guns, and bad attitudes (i.e 'ch1: fk u gremlin') just because I shot him down fair and square.
Gremlin.
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Why is tracers an issue? You know the gun is up if you look, why not shoot it?
Is it because you don't have the crutch of using the tracers to acquire your target? Is it because you can't tell if the gunner is shooting at someone else so you can have a free pass at him? What?
As a side note, I haven't used tracers in over a year. You wouldn't see me shooting at ya anyway, unless of course it is forced in the code to ignore user settings.
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Not an issue for me, like I said I steer clear nowadays.
Grem.
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Excerpt from The Big Show by Pierre Clostermann.
We were at 14,000 feet and kept straight on over to the left, as if we had no intention of attacking. I took a close look at the field: the small crosses parked just where we expected them showed up on the bright green grass of early spring. I particularly noticed one, two, four, seven flak towers. Their shadows clearly projected on the perimeter track by the sun
'Look out Filmstar Leader, flak at 6 o'clock!'
Sure enough, 200 yards behind us five big black puffs from 88 mm. shells had appeared. OK, five more seconds and then I would attack. The objective was behind us and we were facing the sun. Fear caught me by the throat and stopped me breathing. Aerial combat always found me calm - after the early stages - but flak was quite different.
'Drop your tanks, Filmstar'.
My stomach contracted and a wave of nausea swept over me - the advantage of a single-seater is that you can pass out with fear without anybody noticing.
'Quick. 180 port, go.'
This would bring us back facing the airfield, with the sun at our backs.
'Diving--full out, Filmstar!'
My nine Tempests were beautifully echeloned on my left although we were diving almost vertically.
'Smell of flowers,' came Bay Adams voice mockingly in the earphones. Flak! Christ, what flak! The entire surface of the airfield seemed to light up with the flashes from 20mm and 37mm guns. There must have been at least 40 of them. A carpet of white puffs spread out below us and the black puffs of the 37's stood out in regular string of eight.
What flak! Physical fear is the most terrible thing a man can suffer - my heart leaped into my mouth, I was covered with sweat, with sticky, clammy sweat. My clenched toes swam in my boots.
We dived desperately into the smoke…explosions and tracer to left and right crossing over and under us….bangs around our wings and sinister dazzling flashes.
We were a mile from the perimeter, 150 feet from the ground. Men were running hither and thither.
'Lower for Christ's sake,' I yelled hysterically. The broad expanse of grass, carved by the gray runways, tilted up before my eyes and rushed towards me. We were doing over 450 mph. First a hangar … a bowser … then the Messerschmitts, perched clumsily on their narrow gear, about thirty of them, with men crouching under their wings. Too far to the left, unfortunately, outside my line of fire.
A group of a dozen Arados loomed up in my sight. I fired, I fired frantically, my thumb jammed on the button. My shells formed a ribbon of explosion worming its way between the Arados, climbing up the fuselage, hitting theengines … smoke …one of the planes exploded just as I was over it, and my Tempest was tossed up by the burning gust. A Tempest touched the ground and the fuselage bounded up in a shower of fragments of smashed wings and tailplanes. More hangars in front of me. I fired a second burst-it exploded on the galvanized iron doors and the steel stanchions.
'Look out , Red 2' My No. 2 was coming straight for me, out of control, at a terrific speed. His hood had gone. At 470 mph 20 yards to my right, he went smack into a flak tower, cutting it in two beneath the platform.
The wooden frame flew into the air. A cluster of men hanging on to a gun collapsed into space. The Tempest crashed on the edge of the field, furrowing through a group of little houses, with a terrific flash of light; the engine had come adrift in a whirlwind of flames and fragments scattered in the sky.
It was all over … almost. One, two, three … the tracer bullets were pursuing me. I lowered my head and hunched myself behind my rear plating … twelve, thirteen, fourteen … I was going to cheat …a salvo of 37 burst so close that I got only the flash of the explosions without seeing the smoke…splinters rained down on my fuselage…nineteen, twenty! I pulled the stick back and climbed straight up into the sky. The flak kept on.
I glanced back towards Schwerin, just visible under my tailplane. A thousand feet below a Tempest was climbing in zig-zags, the tracer stubbornly pursuing him. Fires near the hangars, columns of greasy smoke, a fireworks display of exploding magnesium bombs. The lone Tempest caught me up, waggled his wings and formed up line abreast.
'Hallo, Filmstar aircraft, reform south of target, angels 10.'
'Hallo, Pierre, Red 3 here, You know, I think the rest have had it.'
Surely Bay couldn't be right! I scanned the 360 degrees of the horizon, and the terrific pyramid of flak bursts above Schwerin right up to the clouds, hanging in the still air. No one.
1304 hours. We had attacked at 1303 hours. The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive, and we had lost eight aircraft out of ten….
Text source:
Through John Dullighan
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Why worry who gets the kill? Kills while manning shore batterys, field guns and ship guns mean absolutly nothing to ones score...other than total kills. I personaly like to man a field gun just so I can kill the ack killers...here's a clue...IT'S FUN! That's why people do it, not for score. As far as killing ack from the air...it still takes a skilled pilot to do it succesfully but it sure isn't impossible.
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
There has been a lotta things going on in the MA lately...but this one stands out the most. I'm sure everyone has been in this situation one time or another:
- I will be deacking a base. When i de-ack a base I kill AI ack first, then mannable.
This is what annoy's me
When i am de-acking a base, someone Always hop's in the mannable ack. He just sits there, and wait's for the AI ack to kill me, so he can pick up a free kill.
Are people that desprite to get a single kill these days?
I'm not really sure how this can be fixed...but lowering the ack letality, so that 3 pings will kill you instead of 1 ping, IMO is a good idea
-Edited for spelling-
I wish all the field guns were human manned, because most of the human gunners are poor marksmen when compared to the AI.
As it is, when an AI ack knocks down an attacker, the nearest friendly, be it a manned ack, or GV will get the credit. The same thing happens with ship acks as well. Two tours ago, I recieved 3 kill credits while manning a cruiser's 5 inch gun mount. I never fired at a single plane....... I don't like the proximity system at all. If you don't kill the target, you should not get the credit, period.
For that matter, I dislike the "assist" system too. I would prefer shared kills, as in .5 or .33 kills rather than an assist. How many times have you shot the wing off of a damaged con, only to just get an assist. I despise assists...... I would have preferred to save the ammo.
I agree that the AI is way too deadly. However, I believe that's a result of the AI "never miss" programming. A single 37mm hit will kill most fighters. So, I don't fault the killing power of the guns themselves, but the over-accuracy of those guns.
I could go on about the response time of the guns... You know, why are the guns always fully manned? Doesn't happen in the real world. Moreover, if you could sneak in under the radar, you could catch a field undefended. As it is now, they always know that you're coming and the acks are always manned. Unrealistic in a real world sense.
My regards,
Widewing
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actually for a single plane to come in and deack a field is far far to easy as it is now. a lone fighter should be ded. deacking a field
should require multiple fighters going in together to help
distract the ack or a buff coming in and egging the ack.
with the intro of mannable AA, field AA defence has been cut anywhere from half to 1/3 of what it was.
for u guys who whine about Mannable ack has no tracers,
ur mistake is treating them as unmanned., i treat all ack
the same...... deadly threat needed to be killed equally.
cant count the times ive seen the enemy leave mannable AA
up just cause it doesnt have tracers wizzin past them.
id rather see part kills givin instead of assist also.
Whels
Originally posted by Widewing
I wish all the field guns were human manned, because most of the human gunners are poor marksmen when compared to the AI.
As it is, when an AI ack knocks down an attacker, the nearest friendly, be it a manned ack, or GV will get the credit. The same thing happens with ship acks as well. Two tours ago, I recieved 3 kill credits while manning a cruiser's 5 inch gun mount. I never fired at a single plane....... I don't like the proximity system at all. If you don't kill the target, you should not get the credit, period.
For that matter, I dislike the "assist" system too. I would prefer shared kills, as in .5 or .33 kills rather than an assist. How many times have you shot the wing off of a damaged con, only to just get an assist. I despise assists...... I would have preferred to save the ammo.
I agree that the AI is way too deadly. However, I believe that's a result of the AI "never miss" programming. A single 37mm hit will kill most fighters. So, I don't fault the killing power of the guns themselves, but the over-accuracy of those guns.
I could go on about the response time of the guns... You know, why are the guns always fully manned? Doesn't happen in the real world. Moreover, if you could sneak in under the radar, you could catch a field undefended. As it is now, they always know that you're coming and the acks are always manned. Unrealistic in a real world sense.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
... I don't like the proximity system at all. If you don't kill the target, you should not get the credit, period.
For that matter, I dislike the "assist" system too. I would prefer shared kills, as in .5 or .33 kills rather than an assist. How many times have you shot the wing off of a damaged con, only to just get an assist. I despise assists...... I would have preferred to save the ammo.
I agree that the AI is way too deadly. However, I believe that's a result of the AI "never miss" programming. A single 37mm hit will kill most fighters. So, I don't fault the killing power of the guns themselves, but the over-accuracy of those guns.
Widewing
I’d have to say I like the proximity kills. It doesn’t have anything to do with dying to AA and a player getting a kill. How many times have you out flown someone right into the ground? I’ve done it several times. They augured trying to kill me therefore I was the cause of their death even though I hadn’t put a single round into them.
As for the “assist’s” when taking a wing off I don’t mind that either. This happens to me with Spit’s all the time. I’ve laid several layers of .50’s into one before and never had parts come off of it. A few seconds later another friendly puts a quick burst and off goes a wing. I actually did all the damage but someone else finally took the last rivet. I ended up with the kill as I think I should have.
Regarding the AI AA, it is far too accurate the faster an aircraft travels. 37mm should put a world of hurt on anything it hits. I just find it hard to believe that faster moving targets should be easier to hit.
Zippatuh
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
I’d have to say I like the proximity kills. It doesn’t have anything to do with dying to AA and a player getting a kill. How many times have you out flown someone right into the ground? I’ve done it several times. They augured trying to kill me therefore I was the cause of their death even though I hadn’t put a single round into them.
As for the “assist’s” when taking a wing off I don’t mind that either. This happens to me with Spit’s all the time. I’ve laid several layers of .50’s into one before and never had parts come off of it. A few seconds later another friendly puts a quick burst and off goes a wing. I actually did all the damage but someone else finally took the last rivet. I ended up with the kill as I think I should have.
(snip)
Zippatuh
I frequently fly the Zero. We all know that the Zero is anything but fast. As a result, it is rare that you can overtake an adversary in a chase. So, I have worked on my deflection shooting and have become reasonably skilled at extreme angle shooting. However, these are snapshots, and given the limited power of the Zero's guns, are unlikely to kill with a snapshot. Therefore, to finish off my target, I usually have to reverse or change direction by greater than 90 degrees. Because the Zero is a rather plodding fighter, most of the time, friendly fighters in the area converge on the smoking enemy or otherwise disabled (missing elevator or aileron, etc), killing it before I can close down the range. I end up with an assist, despite being the one who disabled the enemy in the first place. I don't like it, and it encourages "kill stealing". Shared kills reward everyone who contributes to the victory. The current system does not. By the way, no more than 3 should be permitted to share a kill. Otherwise everyone will shoot at everything in an effort to get some extra kills. However, all of the perk points should go to the pilot who scored the fatal shot.
I also disagree with the idea of getting a kill for an enemy augering in. You didn't "force" him to crash, he made a mistake and misjudged altitude, or stalled or whatever. My opinion is this: If you didn't bring your guns to bear, you should not get a kill credit. That will eliminate most of the credits awarded for just being there.... Yeah, you probably deserved credit for the auger, but how many of those do you get during a tour? One, two? I'd rather have those assists changed to partial kills, and that will easily exceed any gained via lawndarts.
I don't think my idea is the perfect solution, but I would prefer it to the current system.
My regards,
Widewing
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Apache you tend the shoot the ack that you see firing at you 1st. :) Joe didnt say he didnt ever kill the manable
Gremlin you can tell which ack kills you for that very some reason you see the tracer.
I have deacked a lot of fields.
I have deacked a large field alone just so brady and I could vulch.
What I would like is to get rid of the whole idea of proxy kills. I feel is you dont ping the nme you dont deserve a kill.
The problem comes when you try to score it.
maybe add a "airframes lost" category.
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I rather like the ack in AH, except IMO it's not lethal enough. I think, if anything, airfield flak needs to be MORE accurate, not less. It is already painfully easy to avoid if you just watch out for the incomming tracers.
Why make the ack even less accurate? Just so it becomes even EASIER to vulch? Ack is supposed to protect airfields; make it any less accurate and it would not do that, it'd only put up a pretty but useless light show.
If you fly into the ack range of an airfield, you're taking a chance. Sometimes you make it through, other times you get blown away. If you don't want the ack to kill you, stay outside its range.
The proximity kills are a mixed blessing. While I don't like it if someone gets a kill of me that they didn't really earn, there ARE advantages to having this system. In AH, unlike in other flightsims, you can't deliberately auger just to deprive someone of a kill--this happened in other flightsims quite often.
J_A_B
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I think it speaks well for the game when the biggest problem someone has with it is how proximity ack kills are assigned.
I also believe there is no small amount of irony that comes with complaining about how the kill of you was awarded.
AKDejaVu
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I'm alright with proximity kills. If you'll notice (stats aside), the game says "victory" not kill awarded.
If I manage to maneuver you to the point where you err and hit the ground, I win. Gimme the victory. The fact that I may or may not have put bullets on is irrelevant.
WRT AI ack. I'm much more respectul of a manned ack than the AI. AI is easy to beat. Gremlin... grab one of the JABO types to show you the trick. There's not much to it. Just remember, as long as your nose is pointed at the AAA, you are in danger. Don't point at the target unless you're shooting at it and then get your nose off as soon as possible. Try to avoid flying in a straight line at any time.
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Widewing, the problem with the AI acks is this:
Fly your zeke, turning 4k at 150mph above the field.. see if you ever get hit.
Now fly a 500mph, 100ft off the ground plane, changing alt and direction all the time as you pass NEAR a base (6k, d3.0 away from the base)... and you WILL get smacked out of the sky almost instantly.
Sharing kills: The assist system I believe works the way you say. Only 2 people can get an assist on a certain target, and another one getting a kill. Assists give you partial perks. I think. My 202 sorties (Ze Assist King) with no kills an lots of assists usually end up with .67 perks or so.
Proximity kills: I think they are ok as they are now. If you are flying a vastly inferior plane (like zeke or 202) and have little chance of staying in a con's 6 or killing a con with the rare snapshot opportunity... then the one option left is to outfly them. Many times a 202 or zeke ends up with 4+ scalps, thanks to the pilot's ability to dodge the opponents and fixating them into not watching the ground. Heck, Ive even made a few people crash into hangars (by flying through hangars) because they are too fixated into shooting at me and not paying attention where they are flying into.
Also, "proximity kills" do not give you perks UNLESS you have pinged that plane before. Grab a field gun and dont shoot, get the 5+ kills from the AI's shooting, exit and watch your points. They will be 0.