Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Sabre on March 05, 2002, 08:41:25 AM
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Wednesday evening, I plan to enable SpitV's from Allied bases in Sicily and leave them that way for the rest of the week. This is to give the scenario people a chance to practice with the complete planeset they're using in the scenario this month. I'll be disabling the Typhoon to somewhat counter-balance this. In deference to those who love those big, blue USN beasts, I'll leave them enabled (I hate to see a swabbie cry:)).
It's been quite interesting to see the Axis planes doing so well this week. It'll be more interesting to see if this modest change to the planeset shifts the balance of power back to the Allies. I'm also wondering if the IL-2 has had an effect out of proportion to what the Stuka would have, had we had it available instead. Normally, the LW is at a disadvantage in capturing bases, but seems to have done better than I would have thought on this map.
Sabre
CT Team
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hehe, I forsee vast numbers of Spit Vs over Sicily. ;)
any chance this setup could be extended another week to give scenario participants more time to fly over the Sicily terrain?
Even if it wasn't for the scenario, I wouldn't mind seeing this terrain up another week. It's fantastic to fly and fight over. :)
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LW rules, we all know that, just as we know the allies will get their buts kicked in the scenario! :D
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I think the cannons and armor on the IL-2 make it a not-so-great-replacement for the Stuka. Mostly an issue at base defence. TBM might be better armament wise, but I think it's faster... and blue.
eskimo
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Axis won (following this setup's rules) yesterday at 22:30 GMT :)
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Yes we (axis) did win the map but to be honest the only reason was after a massive furball fight for malta with a constant stream of 109s and il2s/ju88s we managed to simply capture by human waves of suicide type attacks.The numbers were pretty low around the 10 to 12 mark and I personally lost life after life but I was determined to help finish off malta.
Once captured the allies actually logged off 1 by 1 until there were no allies left!! in the end it was me and drunky alone! we decided to take limosa for the final victory which is a bit low :) but hell we died so many times on malta I thought we deserved it.a few others arrived who happened to be diehard axis (wilbuz etc) and wilbuz as is usual for many players offered to even up the sides, me and drunky were 10 miles from linosa and said hold it wilbuz!! after the day before where we axis fought 38 allies with 12 axis I said it was time for axis to be just as unfair in their balance,so he joined us.All looked set for an easy capture and victory which would admittedly been a bit shallow even if it was payback for the day before, THEN furzy and a few other die hard allies arrived , assessed the situation and LAUNCHED FROM LINOSA!!! noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! :)
they killed our c47 killed our bomber and 1 escort in p38s! we launched again and again gradually furcing our way to linosa.All fleets were sent in , we threw everything at it!
In the end it was quite an epic tangle and after a heavy fight we finally managed to capture it.If the fleets hadnt been there i doubt we would have done it plus the help from the italian squad who arrived 8 strong!!! hehe and ju88 bombed it into oblivion!
At the finish it was a deserved win considering the amount of times we got there only for furzy and co to bravely(? hehe) throw us back. furzy for some great flying over the base and fleets.
Unfortunately after the fun of this capture my enjoyment in the CT was utterly ruined by a later fight at A10 against the enemy CV fleet just a few miles south of it.I upped in 109s to try to kill the fighters protecting the fleet whilst others tried to torpedo the CV.
This was where the severe lack of firepower available to the LW really was highlighted.If we climbed over 2-3k the fleet flak killed us so we were forced to stay low under it.If we stayed low the fighters upping from the fleet just climbed and dove on us for easy kills.If we flew ju88s low toward the fleet the fighters made mince meat of them or worse a gunner fired in our general direction and boom all was gone! I was killed over and over.so much so I was getting really pissed off.OK I'll take il2 and sneak around from another base i thought and suicide the damn thing if skillfull torpedo runs were out of the question.Lol guess how near i got? I died 10 times attacking with barely 1 time where i dropped a bomb or fired a round.F6fs ans spitfires slaughtered everything low while flaks helped stop anyone who managed to fight thru the screen.
Im sorry to say I got annoyed and ranted on the open channel that LW have nothing to hit the CV with which was quickly called a whine which unfortunately pissed me off even more.
Sorry for my outbursts but hell its true.frustration was the name of the game and i gave up.
Id like to ask why on earth LW are forced to defend the coast with nothing but slow and weakly defended bombers when surely sicily had shore batteries or artillery or something to stop ships???
1943 scenario and we have/had a 190a8,190f8(1944),ju88(1940) to fight P38Ls,F6Fs,F4u's,B17s,b26s,Typhoons(thankfully now removed) which are all 1944-45???
you say you wanted to switch the ballance of power? well wtg you made it a frustrating misery to be LW now.
fair planeset? I think not.
if its 1943 then only put 1943 planes in it or if youre going to add 1944-45 allied planes then add 1944-45 axis stuff.
spit9 and spit5 im happy to face them in 190a5s/109g2s
P47d11 im happy to face them in 109f-g2
p51b im happy with 190a5/109g2-6
hurris im happy with any stuff
P38L,F6fs,F4ud, i want 109g6/10
F4uc? 190d9!
we need to have some sort of chance well you know what i mean.
:D FIX IT!
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I think the allies should only have the TBM as a bomber. The B26 is way too powerful when compared to the Ju88 and IL2.
Maybe give allies the TBM AND the IL2?
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Hazed,
That furball at Malta was a blast!
It was so intense I thought I was going to have a nervous break-down! System Overload, LOL!
I never had a good picture of what was going on, just kept turning and sprayin at the red guys.
Putting bases 4 miles from each other can be a hoot, I think I actually made it to 1500 feet once.
The warm-up 26 and 27 fight (8 miles apart) was pretty cool too.
Anyway, you damn Krauts!
Good fights.
eskimo
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S! Hazed
You are right in that the F6f and F4u were not a part of the campaign during `43. The F6f was used in `44 during Anvil, I don`t believe the F4u was ever used in the Med, certainly not the F4U-c
On the other hand, personally I think the 109G6 is easily a match for the F6f. Outclimbs it, nearly turns with it, is faster at altitude and has the monster gun.
The 190A5 is also a match for it. Faster, climbs better, outrolls it and has monster guns.
These planes can also deal with the P-38L.
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Axis On that win. Was The best fun Ive in a while. It really felt like some kind of scenario or Snapsnot on Speed :). Started of as a Small scale < sneak? > Invasion and ended up a Full blown Air/Sea/Land Oblitteration.
Every wave that came got steadily bigger and more organised. I was Laughing at the End. I think I counted 7-8 Ju88's 4-5 FW's and Me's, 3-4 LVT's and fleets all around that tiny Isle. All this Vs 3-4 defenders who all worked hard to hold it < I only remember myelo but Im terrible with names :) >. Twas with regret that we paddled out to the awaiting Sub to make good our escape.
Hazed :- The (ahem) P38 is really a (ahem) crappy plane. Id like for it to be left in as a (cough) pretend earlier version. :D
As far as I know Allies only have F4U-1. I agree That the B-26 Is a bit much But TBM!! Thats swinging too far in the other direction. Give me a JU88 over a TBM anyday:p
Spit V's on on Sicily wouldnt bother me If I were Axis. Theyre fodder;)
Axis having Il2 dont think It Matters much I havnt seen them used much.
Saber overall a fine setup except for those Dang GV Spawn points.
Furzy
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Thanks Sabre.
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By the way, the only F4U enabled is the F4U-1, the early version with 6 fifties and light bomb load, not the F4U-1C.
Sabre
CT Team
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well sabre its up to you of course but ive gone from 4th place in the last map to well i dont know but my K/S is 7 for 27 sorties in fighters.Ive been outflown once or twice i admit but mostly is because im always being outperformed. I dont care if people call it a whine.I think the amount of times ive died to the allies either points to some sort of catastrofic failure on my part! (possible :D) or the plane set is making its mark on my flying(whch is my personal opinion :D) I know this sounds silly but i havent been flying like an idiot HONEST. My shooting, though now a bit more wild due to the only shot i seem to get (long range snapshots), havent been that bad.
Give me a g10 or 190d9 and things will change for the better.As it is i feel like im fodder for a happy allied crowd.And i VANT TO KILL ZEM!!!
ORDER( OR :) )
GET rid of the late war allied planes and axis ones. A 190a8/f8 is great but if having them means allies get their current setup id rather not have them.
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Sabre, any chance we can get Hurri IIc also? I don't see it as being unbalancing in any way (it's bloody slow and not nearly the jabo the P-38L is), and helps for scenario practice. A bit more of a historical flavour than just Spits.
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I would like to propose the following too :
Raise ManeTMP's monthly subscription to 3000$/month please ;)
grrrrrrrr!
:o
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Funk: I'll see what I can do. I should have thought of doing that at the same time I enabled the Spit. Of course, folks are complaining already that the Spit's are taking over:rolleyes: . Sometimes you just can't win.
Sabre
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I think the argument that the axis need better planes would carry a little more weight if it wasn't included in the same thread discussing the fact that the axis won the war :)
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I would like to propose the following too :
Raise ManeTMP's monthly subscription to 3000$/month please ;)
grrrrrrrr!
:o
don't raise his subscription /°
When he is buzy on your six it help me gaining on HIS six ;)
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Originally posted by myelo
I think the argument that the axis need better planes would carry a little more weight if it wasn't included in the same thread discussing the fact that the axis won the war :)
that is true myelo but it was during a time when there was only 5 vs 5 or so and like i explained I still died many times against even hurricanes which were the mainly choice of the allies(luckily for us i think).It is an entirely different matter when all the bases are capped or watched and even worse when allies outnumber axis by 3 to 1 which ive seen!!.
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I found the last setup to be quite good, with perked rides and all.
In my OPINION, it would be good for balance if:
Allies:
P-38L costs 2 perks
SpitV costs 1 perk (to not make the allies be spit horde)
Typhoon cost 1 perk
Mossie costs 1 perk
F6F cost 2 perks
Seafire free (and avaliable from land bases as well as CV)
Hurricanes (both) free
P47d11 free
F4U1 free (CV and land bases)
TBM free
IL2 Free
C47 Free
La5 1 perk
P-51B 3 perks
Axis:
109F4, 109G-2,190A-5, 190A-8, 190F-8, Ju87 (IL2), Ju88, c202, c205, C-47 free.
109G6 1 perk ('cuase 30mm)
109G10 costs 2 perks.
190D9 4 perks
I would add the KI61 as replacement for the RE2000
My logic for the costs comes from Jabo capability and speed/firepower. Mossie and P-38L are much more cabable "bombers" than the TBM and Il2. P38L and F6Foutperform most, if not all , of the axis rides. P51B and Tiffie are perked due to their huge speed advantage over the early 109's 190's and italian crafts. Adding the Ki61 would give the axis another plane to combat the spits and hurricanes, as well as the other cheap perked allied rides.
Adding the G10 and D9 would combat the P51 and the 38L and the F6F.
Just an idea ;)
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Hazed. I'm not saying some fine-tuning might not be in order, but the plane set seems pretty balanced now, in my opinion -- especially compared to some of the other setups. And I fly axis and allied about equally, depending on numbers.
I was at Linosa with Furzy and believe me I died plenty too. Of course I could just re-up at the base, while ya'll were having to come from far away -- until you got the fleet close enough for the LVTs. I'm not complaining. In fact that was the most fun I've had in a long time (fortunately the wife doesn’t read this).
Two questions:
1. Have the allies won in Sicily (sincere question)? If one side is consistently winning, that would argue for some sort of adjustment.
2. Does anyone have any objective numbers over time regarding the numbers of allies vs. axis in this CT setup? They seem pretty close to me. But I’m usually not on in prime time when I suspect many of the American players are on (who probably lean to the allied planes), so I probably get a biased view.
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well fwiw... (and screen shots to back it up if you want.) all times CST
3/3/02 11:45am 8-3 allied favor
3/3/02 2:37pm 29-11 allied favor
3/3/02 3:09pm 34-12 allied favor
3/5/02 9:09pm 34-18 allied favor (this ratio remained fairly constant throughout the next few hrs.)