Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MANDOBLE on March 08, 2002, 03:39:20 AM
-
http://jagdhund.homestead.com/files/Dora.htm
Thanks for the link Naudet.
As this states, D9 used a normal petrol injection system the same way A8 do, 10 mins boost and 5 mins resting (Sonder - Notleistung). But when MW50 was also used (Sonder - Notleistung mit Ladedruckerhoehung mit MW50), the continuous usage time was increased to 30 mins on the deck instead of 10.
There was MW50 provision for 40 mins of usage.
In AH we have only one button to activate WEP, so this one activates MW50 in D9, this means that we should have 30 mins continuous boost and up to 40 mins WEP usage at MW50 rate, after these 40 mins, MW50 is tank is empty and we should have, again only the normal WEP with petrol injection and only 10 mins of continuous usage.
-
Mandoble, i brought that info up when they created the D9.
And the boost works this way (only for special emergency)
with C3 fuel, there was C3fuel injection, giving SWEP for 3-10 mins.
with B4 fuel, MW50 injection, 10 mins max, enough MW50 for 40 mins onboard.
Also there was the Ladedrucksteigerungsrüstsatz.
This did the following: It increased the normal WEP from 1750PS to 1900PS. THis could be maintained like the normal WEP for 3-10 mins.
THe old normal WEP setting of 1750PS could be maintained for 30mins and the climb&combat setting 1680PS could be maintained "forever".
But still the SWEP had to be cut after max of 10 mins.
The AH D9 is pretty close to that 10mins SWEP boost, but the problem is, in AH you than cant wait 5 mins and get the next 10mins. In AH after the 1st 10 mins you have the problem that the following WEP sessions will be shortened, and to get full 10mins again you have to wait way longer.
-
The addition of a "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" increased output from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1. This could be used below 5000m and with the addition MW-50 gave an Emergency output of 2100PS. In addition, this enabled the previous Emergency power setting of to be maintained for 30 min on the deck
Naudet, as far as I can read, "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" alone gives 1900 Ps for 10 mins. With the addition of MW50, 2100 Ps for 30 mins.
-
dear Lw i sugest to have porked planes , othervise all oportunist will fly them:p
-
Mandoble, it is fortunate that your litany of whines about the D9 are not addressed to your liking. Otherwise the damn plane would be so wonderful it would need to be perked.
-
No way Monty, you're missing the point! The Ta-152 isn't all that good, so it should be unperked. But the Dora is much better than modeled (but not TOO much better). They are both so perfect that they defy the logic of the perk system. Both MUST be uber and unperked. DUH!
-Sikboy
-
Thats how it works in AH....
Couple guys are talking if plane LW did use needs some corrections and couple guys rolls in and starts to throw more or less hidden insults.
If you don't have anything to say why don't you guys just stay away from topics like this?
-
btw how old are you guys?
-
Originally posted by Staga
Thats how it works in AH....
Couple guys are talking if plane LW did use needs some corrections and couple guys rolls in and starts to throw more or less hidden insults.
Yep, that's about the long and the short of it.
If you don't have anything to say why don't you guys just stay away from topics like this?
Or... why don't you just ignore our replies? Honestly, the relationship between whining and mocking has been gone over in other post. I've posited my belief that mocking, or at least registering an opposing sentiment is not simply a privilege, but a duty. I choose mockery. It excercises wit (although addmitidly, I don't spend much time working on this lol). So sir, I bid you to ignore my low brow Jeering, but I don't really care if you like it or not.
-Sikboy
-
Originally posted by Staga
btw how old are you guys?
What? Am I supposed to be shamed into compliance because you imply that I'm immature? :rolleyes: That has to be the most played out parry in the entire cannon of defenses.
-Sikboy
-
Oh... and before this goes any further, I'd like to extrapolate the coments Monty and I made.
While there is nothing inherently wrong with Mandoble's post (a simple request), Monty points out that this is indicative of a larger trend, which he (Monty) disagrees with. In my reply, I contend that this trend is not limited to improving the D9's performance in the game, but also to unperking the Ta-154 (Now, don't get me wrong, I'm aware that Mandoble didn't lead the charge on that thread, once again, I was refering to the trend in general) and that according to that logic, Monty's thesis about boosting the Dora into Perk territory was flawed, as it runs counter to the trend he was pointing out.
Just in case you missed it.
-Sikboy
-
I didn't know we have Moskito in AH ?
Oh I had to ask your age 'cause I'm doing a study about how people behaviour in BB's like this and if there is correlation between manners and age.
-
btw Ta-154 looks like this...
-
Sikboy and Monte, if u have some data against what that link states, then u better bring here the data instead doing nonsense replies. But Staga may be perfectly right, 10 years old each? :D
-
Originally posted by Staga
btw Ta-154 looks like this...
Oooops, make that the Ta-152. Touche. But I'm sure if we had the Ta-154 it would be under-modeled.
-Sikboy
-
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Sikboy and Monte, if u have some data against what that link states, then u better bring here the data instead doing nonsense replies. But Staga may be perfectly right, 10 years old each? :D
We don't need data to support our statements. I don't believe that english is your first language (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here) but this should easily be understood by my extrapolation of the two original posts. Of course, you English is leaps and bounds better than my Spanish, so lets call that a wash.
And yes, Monty and I are 10 years old each. But to be fair, I'm 10 and a half :rolleyes:
-Sikboy
-
Hey, thanks for mucking up a good thread :rolleyes:
That's some good info Mandoble and Naudet. Maybe it'll get looked at. I'd love to have the MW50 tank modeled and be able to have 4x10min boosts.
-
"I'd love to have the MW50 tank modeled and be able to have 4x10min boosts."
Even better would be the option to choose between MW50 and fuel. Anyone doing, say, high-alt escort with the Dora would probably rather have some extra gas.
And reduce that dang gun flash effect on the noseguns. Flying the 190A8 in WW was quite annoying for this reason alone.
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Sikboy and Monte, if u have some data against what that link states, then u better bring here the data instead doing nonsense replies. But Staga may be perfectly right, 10 years old each? :D
Every week it is some new Dora squeak coming from you. "The D9 is too slow, the D9 guns aren't straight, the D9 compresses too easily, the D9 is too vulnerable, the D9 roll rate is too slow... waaaaa"
Actually, most D9s were poorly built pieces of junk that barely made it into the war, and HTC shouldn't waste their time investigating every new thing you find to cry about with the plane.
You will latch on to any little thing you can find that might be evidence it was better. Give it a rest LUFTWHINER. I don't need data, because you have zero credibility.
-
Who's squeaking now sonny?
-
uhhm...what a community. :rolleyes:
Good luck to anyone who is after more and better realism, you will need that.
-
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The addition of a "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" increased output from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1. This could be used below 5000m and with the addition MW-50 gave an Emergency output of 2100PS. In addition, this enabled the previous Emergency power setting of to be maintained for 30 min on the deck
Naudet, as far as I can read, "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" alone gives 1900 Ps for 10 mins. With the addition of MW50, 2100 Ps for 30 mins.
its a mute point till we get little tanks to hold all these special
wep fuels, so that when they run out u dont have more
till u reload or replane.
1 day we would be able to hit P for normal wep, shift P MW50, and maybe alt P for G-1.
whels
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
I don't need data, because you have zero credibility.
ROFLOL Zuma, from which hole have u come out? Do u have even a minimal knowledge base to determine whether someone should have or not credibility? In fact, do u refer to me or to the creator of the link? Have u read the info of that link? Of course not, you dont need it :D The "I don't need data" said all about u ... If u are happy, keep into your ignorance lair, u should have a lot of credibility there.
-
Mandoble.
It still gives only 10 mins of MW50 SWEP.
3-10 mins of 1900 PS WEP
but 30 mins of 1750 PS
and finally the combat&climb can be held forever (1680PS).
Now i will show you were your little misunderstanding was.
The addition of a "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" increased output from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1. This could be used below 5000m and with the addition MW-50 gave an Emergency output of 2100PS. In addition, this enabled the previous Emergency power setting of to be maintained for 30 min on the deck and The climb and Combat power setting (1620PS) to be maintained indefinitely.
This is the passage you are referring too.
And yes it states the previous Emergency Output could be maintained for 30 mins.
But the previous emergency setting is not MW50 - cause that would be Special Emergency - the previous emergency output ist 1750 PS.
Thats the emergency output an engine without the Ladedrucksteigerungsruestsatz could achieve.
-
"Ladedrucksteigerungsruestsatz"
Is that really a word ? :D
-
did all D9s have these special fuels and oxedents and coolants available?
-
Good question Pongo +)
Many F6 pilots had the wep tanks removed I have read to save weight...
SKurj
-
Does anyone know what is this mystical A-Lader??
FW 190d-9 using MW-50 and b4 fuel with A-lader gets 640kmh at the deck. Whoa!!
(http://server3003.freeyellow.com/jagdhund/FW190D-9/D9speedWeb_03.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
I don't need data, because you have zero credibility
LOL you are right, you don't need data. You need a clue.
And a good spanking won't come bad, either :D
Naudet.....so then.......
Fw190D9 with Ju213A using MW50+B4 fuel+Ladedrucksteigerungsruestsatz would get
2100hp for 10 minutes
1900hp for 10 minutes
1750hp for up to 30 minutes
1680hp for unlimited time.
did I got that right?......it seems odd to me that the times for the 1900hp and 2100hp settings are the same ,so I guess I've understood it wrong...
-
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The "I don't need data" said all about u ...
The burden is on you to prove the model is wrong. HTC has more experience modeling the Dora in a flight sim than anyone else.
You, however, are a completely biased and useless information source. You will make any idiotic claim - no matter how stupid or baseless, as long as you think it might result in an advantage for a German plane.
It was nice of Naudet to come and politely explain that you don’t know what you are talking about. Again.
Even if by the smallest coincidental chance one of your endless luftwhines actually turned out to be correct I’ll wager HTC wouldn’t fix it just because you are such a knuckleheaded nuisance.
-
To simplify, Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz = LR.
Naudet, I agree that the "previous" emergency setting is not with MW50, but it is referring to the 1900ps, that is just the "previous" mentioned (1750ps) in planes with LR.
Literaly:
With the "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" this becomes 1900ps, sustainable for 30 minutes on the deck.
And this is not 1750ps ;)
So, we have "Takeoff & Emergency" at 1750ps for planes WITHOUT LR (10 mins) and 1900ps for planes WITH LR (30 mins).
The addition of a "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" increased output from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1. This could be used below 5000m and with the addition MW-50 gave an Emergency output of 2100PS.
Now we may add MW50 to that "Takeoff & Emergency" setting to have about 2100ps - 2240ps with "Ladedruckerhoehung". What is "Ladedruckerhoehung" ?? Is equivalent to LR?
In any case, it seems MW50 may be used with or without LR. It seems logical to have more duration with LR than without it. Perhaps 10 mins without and 30 mins with LR (with a power increase of 300ps).
As far as I understand:
1 - 1750ps without LR (10 mins).
2 - 1900ps with LR (30 mins on the deck).
3 - 2100ps or more Special Emergency with C3 (petrol injection for 10 mins).
4 - 2600ps with A Lader als Bodenmotor. (? mins).
5 - 2100ps with B4 and Ladedruckerhoehung with MW50 and using Takeoff & Emergency or Special Emergency power. (? mins).
6 - 1680ps Climb & Combat (30 mins) for planes WITHOUT LR .
7 - ???ps Climb & Combat (indefinitely) for planes WITH LR.
Zuma, I know you can't understand a single bit about all this, but keep tuned, your posts are becomming funnier and funnier :D
-
1st all power settings are in PS, not HP.
There is a very small difference.
And yes R4M you got it right.
Just i forgot that the climb&combat is only 1620PS.
And now why both WEPs setting can only be held for 10mins.
Basicly cause they work different.
In both cases you run the Engine on maximum boost pressure (1.8 ata) and maximum rpg (3250rpm).
This will let the engine run hot. And if you dont shut it down, you will cripple the engine.
Now the funny thing is, the MW50 works both as antidetonate and additionally cools the engine. Cause of this you can use it 10mins.
But the normal WEP (in our case 1900PS) will just run at increased pressure 1.8 ata and full 3250rpm without additional cooling. This means you have to cut off WEP before engine temp reaches critical levels, and this will be the case after 3-10mins.
The advantage of MW50 is its cooling effect. Which allows the engine to run quite long (10mins) on maximum power.
Also i know from pilot reports that D9 could be flown longer on WEP than just 10mins. But than (as in the P51 of Bud Anderson) the valves were glowing red. and some other parts were melted.
And Mandoble, you wont want to run MW50 longer than 10mins at a time, cause after this the engine stress would become so great it would wore out extremly fast.
But to clear everything up, i just asked Bryan again how long the powersettings will last.
Once he answered i will post any possible D9 power settings here.
-
That's one of the things I liked about WB3 you had MW50 and you would use for the described times and once you ran out of the injection system your wep was out until you replaned , although it sure would be nice if for hi alttiude as described here once you ran out of MW50 boost that was it but, for lo alttiude you would use the regular type of wep associated with the cooling periods.
I see that the current WEP system in AH is more simplistic at best but I am sure it could be improved as it is describes with these official figures.
-
Mandoble, i now got an answer and what is most important a view into the original source.
And cause the original source is in german i can be 100% sure that there is no misunderstanding, as i am a german.
With the Ladedrucksteigerungsrüstsatz, the times i gave are correct.
Here again the listing of possible power settings for a D9 with LR.
2100PS => 10mins
1900PS => 10mins
1750PS => 30mins
1620PS => forever
but also the source states, that JG54 was outfitted with LR in Nov. 44 and that all D9s in Jan. 45 were fitted with the LR.
Also it is stated that most D9 were also outfitted with the Oldenburg MW50 installation.
From that single source (Focke Wulf, Jagdflugzeug, Fw 190 A, Fw190 "Dora", TA 152, Peter Rodeike, ISBN 3-923457-44-8)
we can say that the majority of the D9s that were flown used the above powersettings.