Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: cp52 on March 10, 2002, 12:57:13 PM
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Why is it that if someone hits the ground near me I get a kill but if I shoot holes in a plane and it slowly dies and I get killed in the meantime, I don't get a kill? To follow this to its logical conclusion, you should take the holes out of their plane, shouldn't you?
Why doesn't the person who shot the plane down get credit whether they are still flying or not????????????
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Originally posted by cp52
Why doesn't the person who shot the plane down get credit whether they are still flying or not????????????
You mean you want to be awarded a kill posthumously? :D Why should you get credit for a kill after you have died? :p
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That would be silly. The LAST thing you want to do is reward suicidal tactics. I think the system as we have it works just fine thanks. :)
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Flossy does have somewhat of a point...
Sometimes you get somebody go Head On against you, you shoot each other to pieces....both of you spiraling towards the ground, then it's a game of chicken to see who bails first. The last to bail gets the kill. While this may sound thrilling, it gets old really quickly.
At least give up a kill to the player if heshe bails (it wouldn't be posthumous after all).
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Did they award kills in the war to pilots who died in collisions with other planes?
Sounds like thats all this guy wants.
Thats the only scenario i can see this happening... If I shoot a guy up and his buddy gets me then someone else finishes im off .. mmm no the guy that finshes him off would get the kill, in reality and in AH (fine by me +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
Thats the only scenario i can see this happening...
As your enemy is spiraling down wingless you are disintegrated by hvy ack near an enemy CV, and a friendly PT gets the kill while trying to torp the CV. Do you want more scenarios? There are zillions of them ...
IMO, if u killed a plane, the award should be yours (alive or dead), and if you crash and no enemy has pinged you, no kill award should be given. Even more, if ack got u, the award should be for the ack, not for any nearby enemy.
Basically, if you want the kill, work for it and ping the enemy at least once. Proximity kills have no sense to me if you have been unable to place a single bullet in the enemy. And negating the fact that you downed an enemy just because you dead earlier has little sense too.
Just imagine these "suicidal" pilots tracking enemy bombers up to 30k along 30 minutes, firing at them and being shotdown while causing critical damage to the buffs. The interceptor pilot bails out and in few seconds is back into the tower. And some minutes after that the engineless buff crash and no kill award is given to the killer while the buff driver has been awarded with another fighter kill.
Flossy, remember that when you bail out you are not dead, this doesnt need to be a "posthumously" kill award.
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Flossy & Lephturn- you jump to extremes. I never said anything about suicide tactics. Mandoble is right on it!
Many times you kill someone and while they are slowly dying you are jumped by someone else (or many someone elses). What does that have to do with the plane you shot down?
As was pointed out, in war if you shot down a plane and then were shot down you still got credit. Makes much more sense than the "crash" rules we have now where you get credit for planes you never touched.
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YOU never said anything about suicidal tactics, but that's just what your suggestion would lead promote. As it is we pay almost no penalty for getting shot down... we just hit FLY again. Start giving out kills even if you are dead will just encourage even more rediculous behaviour IMHO regardless of what specific situations you are thinking about.
Getting kill credits is just fine. You have to stay alive to get credit, so at least there is SOME motivation not to die repeatedly. There are already plenty of suicidal folks out there in AH land... the last thing we need to do is further encourage those tactics by giving out kills after they are dead. Staying alive to get credit for a kill is entirely reasonable in my book. After all... if your dead, how did you report in and get "credit" for your kills? Even if you just bailed.... how are you getting credit when you got captured/killed/lost your plane?
Want credit for all your kills? Then use proper tactics and survive the attack. Real simple.
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The theory about the "suicidals" has no sense at all.
There is a big difference between killing and landing the kill and killing and getting killed, the second will not give u any K/D increase and will cut your fun as soon as you suicide to get a single kill. Why some one would risk a suicide in an attempt to get a single kill?
Lephturn, based on your theory, u better keep near your victim till it crashes the ground or bailout, else, no way to confirm the kill and get the award.
About promoting "staying alive", is bailing out staying alive? Do u consider bails out in friendly territory? What about landing your plane in your field and comming back to the tower 5 mins before your damaged enemy crashes into to ground near his base?
What is better, to give the kill to the one that worked for it (even if dead), or to give it to the first one that simply dives with the falling foe to get the proximity kill?
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I'm not going to bother argueing with you WHINEDOBLE, you've proven over and over it's a waste of time.
Read my pevious post again... especially the last bit.
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Yep Lephtard, arguing with my with so weak and simplistic arguments is a total waste of time, but u better use some more elaborated argumentation if u want to argue with cp52 :p
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Silly argument. Enjoy the game. Get out to the pub a bit more:D
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I'll agree to disagree with you on the credit for kills after death Lephturn. Historically, I feel secure in my position on that but this is not a historical game.
You repeatedly mentioned that a dead pilot shouldn't receive credit for a kill but how about a live one on a parachute? When you bail out and are not dead, shouldn't you get credit for your kills? I do believe that in war pilots are given credit for kills, even if they do bail out.
I'm not trying to start a war, just would like to improve the game.
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You do have some good points CP, though it doesn't ride high on my priority list. The number of kills i have 'lost' to these circumstances is minimal.
SKurj
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LOL its the first time I see lephturn degrade into this level of discussion.. :)
In an earlier HT game (warbirds) kills were awarded to the guy who earned them, which is a better system IMO. I also liked that you could see on kill roster who killed who.
That made interesting to see two (or more) players mouthing off, daring eachothers to duel, then later you could see the outcome.
I got awarded dozens of kills posthumously in wb2.xx while sitting in tower (yeah I was a t&b spitdweeb back then) and that cut the edge of the aggravation of being shot down. It was very much fun to see sometimes 4-5 kills rack up afterwards.
But I guess we each have our preferences and opinnions, no use fighting over them.
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Just an fyi...
I ran a torpedo attack on several bishships only to get my PT blown out of the water after putting fish in the water. Sitting in the tower, contemplating what to do next I was awarded with "Ship Destroyed".
Heck it was so much fun, I did it a second time... same results too :D
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BTW, this really should be in the Gameplay Feedback forum.
You do have a valid opinion CP, I just disagree. :) Sorry, I didn't mean to paint you with the same brush as WHINEDOBLE there.
I just have very little patience for WHINEDOBLE guys... no reflection on the rest of you. Carry on. :)
Lephturn
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"You mean you want to be awarded a kill posthumously? Why should you get credit for a kill after you have died?"
"That would be silly. The LAST thing you want to do is reward suicidal tactics"
The ONLY way to solve such problems is to change the system so that you don't receive kills, points, or perks unless you can finish your flight by landing or ditching in friendly territory.
Only then will a suicide attack be a true suicide attack. Receiving points, perks, and kills while dying on a mission simply encourages the dive in shoot it out head on type tactics. Why not, ever look at some of the top 100 scores? Ever notice all those 0.98 to 1.3 kill to death ratios in the crowd with tons of points? You're rewarding bad tactics with good scores.
How many of us are true ACES with a kill to death ratio of 5 to 1 or more?
Ranger Bob
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I am, and I still want those kills posthumously. :p
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I've learned that if I'm going to HO someone, it's better to be ascending than descending.. cause you'll probably be able to stay airborne longer than the other guy =)
ka
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At least give Acks credit for kills instead of the nearest enemy. When I get shot down (which happens often), I like to know by whom. If I'm in heavy ack with other players around, I want to know if my SA sucked and I got killed by a player that I didn't see, or if the ack got me. Giving credit to the nearest enemy isn't rewarding anybody's actions. I got shot down 'cuz I got into the ack, but now I think that somebody else snuck up on me and killed me. I can never know who really killed me, so I can't alter my actions next time to make me a better pilot. And the other guy gets credit for what?
I don't understand what is so unreasonable about giving credit for the kill even after the other pilot dies. Credit and perks and/or points are two different things. At the very least, if I shoot up a pilot and go down first, don't give anybody credit/perks/points. Giving credit to the nearest nme is just silly. In that case, you are rewarding somebody to just hang out in a furball and avoid fights. I've been sitting on the ground in a GV and gotten kills without firing a shot. What type of behavior is being rewarded there?
While I understand the argument about suicidal pilots, it seems to me that suicidal pilots are out there now, with the current situation. If there is a problem with suicidal pilots, fix that separately. They're not getting credit for it now, so their motivation must be different than what you believe it is.
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A player could have been using field ack too +)
SKurj
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So if you got killed by player-manned field ack that player gets the score, otherwise it goes to Otto.
As for posthumous kills, how many air medals, medals of honor, and navy crosses were awarded posthumously? Just because you died doesn't mean all the other people floating about didn't see your {stupidly} "HEROIC" action in the face of the enemy, blah blah, blah.
IMHO if HTC jumped every time a suggestion like this hit the BBS they'd spend so much time chasing their tails nothing would get done. Right now if I want credit for a kill I have to be living, I know this, I take this into account. If HTC changes the kill rules, that's fine, too. As long as I know what the deal is I can work with it. The current system isn't perfect for me, but it seems to be perfect enough for the majority of the people flying.
There are better topics to get your panties in a wad over, like what the heck was the a/c with the TEMP icon, and how long has it been since LAZER has been slapped, and who killed JFK, anyway... :p