Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: faminz on March 11, 2002, 12:21:17 AM
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No-one has mentioned the Meteor or the P-80 yet. Both saw action. Meteor mainly chasing doodle-bugs and I think the P-80 Shooting Star was test deployed in Italy very near the end of the war (correct me if Im wrong guys).
Both would obviously be perked but could counter balance the 262 a bit.....??
;)
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oh my faminz....!!
Give us some credit would ya!!
Both the meteor and P-80 have been mentioned before in here. I don't care to see the P-80 in AH, but the meteor has a place i think..
SKurj
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apologies Skurj, of course they wouldve been mentioned before but I thought not in the current musings over the new 'gift' plane in 1.09...
Out of sheer interest tho, Why not the P-80?
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P-80 would propably be a 400-500 points perk-plane in MA.
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Originally posted by faminz
No-one has mentioned the Meteor or the P-80 yet. Both saw action.
;)
ACTION????????????????
If shooting drones or one holiday trip over the alps are action, then I want the Bachem 349 Natter, Horten 229, Tank 154.
They also saw action. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Yep, bring the Natter for city, factories and HQ defense.
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P80 never saw action, don't even think it ever saw service with any operational unit.
Meteor is legitimate though, specially Mk1, who'd fly it though?
If the Meteor Mk3 is added I won't stop screaming and yelling and whining untill my DO335 is added aswell.
(which btw saw service)
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Congrats Faminz!!!! You have managed to twist the titty of some well known luftwobbles with a minimum of effort. Whether you knew it or not, you scored a direct hit.:)
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has anybody info'S how the meteor would compete against the 262?
How are the differences in performance and handling?
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Meteor was inferior to the 262. Both in armament and speed (I think it was almost 100mph slower if memory serves me right).
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Without us they'd probably be F86s in the Arena so we win :D
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the bachem 'natter' never saw combat tho there was a combat-ready squad consiting of ten aircraft readied near stuttgart during the last days of ww2. actually, they were destroyed about a week after they were declared combat ready, when us grunts were moving in, taking over the airfield. *wiseassmodeoff*
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Originally posted by tofri at work
ACTION????????????????
If shooting drones or one holiday trip over the alps are action,
well I bow to your superior obviously personal knowledge of the subject. Obviously shooting a giant warhead from up close or even tipping it over by touching wings is hardly dangerous. I stand corrected. (actually I crouch corrected with my hands over my head trying to hide from the shrapnel!!)
The P-80 I admit only toured a warzone (as far as i know). sortof like crossing or patrolling a no-fly zone in Iraq and we all know thats not action either.
;)
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Meteor Mk1 is a totally legitimate airplane IMO, it saw action, mostly against V1's but that counts as action.
Tac, how the Meteor would perform? Max speed for Meteor Mk1 was about 406 Mph at 10k. Compare this to the 262 which had a speed of 530 Mph at the same alt, 540 at 20k and 510-520 at sea level I think you understand how it would perform ;)
Meteor would turn a bit better though, so what? A p51 turns better too but sure as hell can't catch our Thunderbird!
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CC wilbus.
Plus, its a brit plane. And knowing the brits, it prolly was a turnfighter ;) ;)
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The meteor with 4 center mounted Hispanos has a vast fire power advantage vs the 262.
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If Meteor MkI's max speed was so slow maybe it could be the cheap jet, something like 50-100 perk points ?
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Pongo, id take four nose mounted 30mm's instead of 4 hispanos in a JET any day.
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Yes Staga, have to be more expensive then Tempest but cheaper then 100 IMO, it's definatly a plane worth adding though.
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The Meteor III flew combat sorties from bases in Holland from March 45.
No air to air kills, but quite a few ground targets, and a 190 damaged iirc.
Production plane, saw service, every bit as valid as Ta152 imho.
Perormance of Meteor III:
about 490 max speed (don't know altitude)
almost identical thrust to 262.
range about 1300 miles
heavier than 262 with full fuel, lighter than 262 with fuel for the same distance
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The Natter pilot notes are damn funny. "After you regain consciousness from the launch, proceed to intercept target....." More like IF you regain consciousness!
Yeah, the Meteor would be nice as would the He162 Salamander.
Regards
Nexx
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Meteor Mk. III with Derwent engines (493 mph) was the major wartime version. 200 were built and they were used in combat from January 1945 onward with 504 and 616 Squadrons from bases in Belgium. AFAIK the Luftwaffe never challenged them and they just ended up doing strafing and tearing up the sky.
The really slow version (415 mph) was the Meteor Mk. I with the Welland engines. 20 Built. 616 Sqn used these from July 1944 until they converted to the Mk. III and moved to Belgium. They were used for combat air patrols over Britain. There were few Luftwaffe sorties over Britain by this time, so they ended up knocking down V-1s.
If you crunch the numbers, it's obvious both Meteors would have a turning advantage on the 262 and that they have a better armament suite for taking on fighters, with higher muzzle velocity, rate of fire, and ammo load. However they are both inferior to the speed of the Me 262, although the Mk. III could climb with the 262. I think it would be something like Fw 190A-5 vs. Spitfire Vb. Pretty fun matchup IMHO. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
I think it would be something like Fw 190A-5 vs. Spitfire Vb. Pretty fun matchup IMHO. :)
Mmh, Meteor I vs 262 maybe, but looking at your analysis, I've a gut feeling that the Mk III would eat 262's alive.
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Mk III never saw action, if it is added, then so could many other "what if" planes.
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"never saw action" does not make a plane a "what if" type.
Never saw action = Vampyre/Tempest II/F8F/P-80A/DO-335.
What if = Kikka/ B-35/GO-229
The MK III Meteor saw action. It was in mass production, it was deployed into service with combat uinits and it was based on the continent where it flew armed sorties without encountering any appreciable opposition. About the same with the HE-162 'Salamander.' The H-162 flew sorties and even had one reported "kill."
That's not "what if" in the least.
On the other hand a hand full of the YP-80 were sent to Italy and England. While they say the planes flew "sorties" they were IMO more of a morale booster to the troops by saying "see? we got em too!" And the P-80A was in the Phillipines in '45 but unusable due to missing wing tip tanks and batteries - which for some unfathomable reason were not sent with the planes themselves (duh!). So technically even the P-80 passes my "mass production and deployed to combat units" criteria but it never saw any reported "action." So even I would question adding the P-80 to the AH planeset.
Westy
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Meteor MK III never saw any combat, it was in service on the other side of the channel (S side). P80 definatly should not be added, if Meteor Mk III is added, so should the Do335.
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Well the thing for me is the DO-335 and the HE-162 are valid WWII aircraft and I'd not have any problem with them being included in the AH planeset. Whether they saw action or not imo is irrelevant. They were beng produced and were deployed.
Much the same way I think the MS.502, Fokker XXI (?) or PZ.11 were in the early war period. Not having had any action nor being in very little doesn't make a WWII plane.
Westy
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Meteor MK III never saw any combat, it was in service on the other side of the channel (S side).
South side? The closest to a south side for the channel would be Normandy.
Meteor IIIs operated on both sides of the channel, in the UK and Holland/Belgium.
Extracts of 616 squadron activity in 45 (only sorties flown from Kluis are shown)
13.4.45. Arrived at B-91 Kluis, Nijmegen from B.77 Gilze-Rijen
16.4.45. Operations in Utrecht/Amsterdam/Leiden/Wageningen area.
17.4.45. M.T. in IJmuiden area.
18.4.45. M.T. attacked in West Holland. Flack bursts reported at same hight as Meteor but always well behind. 'A good thing to see' says the pilot ! B.B.C. news bulletin refers to 'British jets in action in Holland' !
19.4.45. M.T.
20.4.45. Move to B-109 (Quackenbruck in Germany)
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And what do you think I ment with South side? ;)
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And what do you think I ment with South side?
I think you meant the UK.
You said it was in service on the other side of the channel (S side).
In fact it was in service on both sides of the channel, unless you are refering to another channel, in which case it was in service to either the north, south, east or west depending on where the other channel is ;)
Regardless, it saw service and combat in WW2 :D
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Originally posted by K West
And the P-80A was in the Phillipines in '45 but unusable due to missing wing tip tanks and batteries - which for some unfathomable reason were not sent with the planes themselves (duh!). So technically even the P-80 passes my "mass production and deployed to combat units" criteria but it never saw any reported "action." So even I would question adding the P-80 to the AH planeset.
Westy [/B]
so on the crate, in small print it said " batteries not included"?
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What was the name of the Japanese jet, that did (or didn't) see WW2 action?
I remember hearing something about it, I don't care if we get it in here or not, just curious...
BTW...nice flying with ya SKurj :) As always!
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Weeeeel, AFAIK GB is NORTH of the channel, and the side I am refering to is SOUTH of the channel (that is saw service north of the channel is pretty clear).
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An ugly plane was it for sure :p
Would rather see some Biplanes in AH.
(http://airmodeller.tripod.com/FS/BrMeteor.jpg)
sailor
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Wilbus, I'll leave it there, otherwise I'll have to point to your use of a non sequitur, which confused your meaning
Still, I'm glad we agree the Meteor III saw action, and deserves to be in AH ;) :D
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
What was the name of the Japanese jet, that did (or didn't) see WW2 action?
I remember hearing something about it, I don't care if we get it in here or not, just curious...
BTW...nice flying with ya SKurj :) As always!
You talking about their version of the 262? That's the one that was closest to actual production & seeing duty. It was called the Kikka. There's one hanging at the Smithsonian's Garber restoration facility.
D
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LOL, I dind't think I was unlcear :p
yes we agree :)
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Originally posted by Doberman
You talking about their version of the 262? That's the one that was closest to actual production & seeing duty. It was called the Kikka. There's one hanging at the Smithsonian's Garber restoration facility.
D
I thought the Japanese version was much smaller, with far less wing loading. And that they had more than one jet-powered prototype.
Perhaps I am thinking of the Japanese manned rockets.
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"German Jet Aces of WW2"
"Leutant Rudolf Schmitt of 1./JG 1 was the only pilot to claim a victory in the He162. But his claim, a RAF typhoon on May 4 1945, was not allowed, being credited instead to local flak unit."
It also states, the He162 designed to be flown by Hitler Youth was really hard to fly. I think it would be neat to have but Me163 scored more victories.
I really dont wanna see postwar jets until MA planeset is completely finished.
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i don't really want to see any jets
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I don't really wanna see any post war jets at all.
Jets are cool though, He162 was indeed tough to fly, even aces and experienced pilots said it was a pain in the but, specially compared to the 262.