Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: TheOxman on March 11, 2002, 06:57:38 AM

Title: new 109
Post by: TheOxman on March 11, 2002, 06:57:38 AM
What's the new 109 have ,that the ones already in the game dont have
Title: new 109
Post by: Staga on March 11, 2002, 07:27:10 AM
Messerschmitt Bf-109 E-4 was variant which was seen in battle of Britain. Engine was DB 601A with ~1175hp when 109F had DB601E with ~1300hp. Armament was also different than in planes we have now, 2*7,9mm MG over the engine and 2*20mm MG/FF in wings with 60rounds per gun (propably).
Title: new 109
Post by: Witless on March 11, 2002, 08:01:16 AM
Hi,

This is probably wildly inaccurate but as it's earlier, will it be a better turner? I ask as development of most type of WW2 fighters seemed to drop turning ability in favour of brute strength ie bigger engines and bigger guns.

Cheers
Witless
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 11, 2002, 08:07:34 AM
Yes it will be a better turner, even better then the 109 F4, and if the 109 flaps are fixed for 1.09 it will be an even better turner.
Title: new 109
Post by: Angus on March 12, 2002, 12:34:21 PM
Are you SURE it will out-turn the 109F? I somehow thought that the thrust-to weight was more in favour of the 109F, and the 109F has cleaner lines anyway. I read it so many times that the pilots were soooo happy about the 109F..:confused:
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 12, 2002, 12:39:56 PM
It will outturn it, if not, I'll be the most surprised person in the world (and by saying that something will make it turn worse :D )

However, the 109 F4 was considered the best 109 of all, it was not due to it's turning capebility only, but thanks to everything combined. it was still light, manuverable and had a good speed. Later models with G and after were, by most, considered too heavy to fly although fast.
Title: new 109
Post by: Urchin on March 13, 2002, 02:10:33 AM
The 109F4 will actually out turn the E4.  The 109F4 had better power to weight, lower wingloading, and more wing area.  The E4 should outroll the F4 though, at least I'd imagine.  

The 110C whatever will actually be the big surprise of 1.09, at least by my thinking.  It *SHOULD* be able to out-turn the E4 (at least the only comparative turn chart I've ever seen had the 110C out-turning the 109E).  Although the C4 is going to be a pig for the MA (it is slow, doesn't really have all that much firepower, and it is really slow lol), it should be able to turn with just about everything that can't outturn a P38 at low speeds (if that makes sense- it shouldn't be turning with a Spit, Niki, Yak, Zeke, Hurri or P38, but just about everything else is fair game).  As far as I know, the 110C series probably turned about as well as the 109F series, although it will be slower, climb worse, and accelerate slower.
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 13, 2002, 02:21:09 AM
OK, thanks for the correction :)
Title: new 109
Post by: Wotan on March 13, 2002, 02:48:35 AM
I wonder if we will get a 109e-4n (e-4s were also fitted with the db601n rated at 1200hp)
Title: new 109
Post by: Charge on March 13, 2002, 03:04:42 AM
If I remember correctly the F1 and 2 still had the old E-engine but the different cowling and wing design made it a better turner than the E. Im not sure if it was still better turner when the correct (as originally planned) engine (and gun MG151 15/20)was finally introduced in F4.

-Charge+
Title: new 109
Post by: Naudet on March 13, 2002, 06:17:04 AM
Just one thing about turning of E4 and F4.

Comparison between both, gave the following circle times:

E4 25 seconds alt was 3500 feet
F4 18 seconds alt was 3500 feet

the F4 is the best turning 109er ever.
Title: new 109
Post by: Charge on March 13, 2002, 06:27:40 AM
Rather clear difference in the turning radius.
And Spit 1 will be a better turner than the Spit5?
It will be rather interesting to fly a BOB scenario in an E versus a flight of Spit 1s...

:rolleyes:

-Charge+
Title: new 109
Post by: fats on March 13, 2002, 08:08:39 AM
fly the E-4 like a 190 against Spit I or Hurricane.


// fats
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 13, 2002, 08:13:00 AM
Problem is teh E4 is slower then the Spit I.
Title: new 109
Post by: Kratzer on March 13, 2002, 11:03:01 AM
Will our Spit I cut out in negative G manuevers?
Title: new 109
Post by: K West on March 13, 2002, 11:05:19 AM
"Will our Spit I cut out in negative G manuevers?"

 I hope so!  That would be one glaring error if it did not.

Westy
Title: new 109
Post by: fats on March 13, 2002, 12:36:02 PM
Flying a slower plane isn't a problem. Just asks for more SA.

// fats
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 13, 2002, 01:32:39 PM
CC Westy, it better!

More SA hasn't got anything to do with it if in a fight or furrball already, flying a slower worse turning plane IS a disadvantage, SA or no SA.
Title: new 109
Post by: fats on March 14, 2002, 05:01:40 AM
That SA part comes in when you decide to enter a fight, and during a fight when to bug out. If you commit your self to a furball you have already fubared SA. By commiting I mean you cannot escape from it at will, which usually means you are saddled up on single enemy.

Knowing you are flying a slower plane that turns worse, limits your available ACM to rather just vertical and alt monkeying. So you'll have an energy margin to use as an escape buffer when things start to look bad.

More SA and stricter limits will get you home a live none the less.


// fats
Title: new 109
Post by: WildBlue on March 14, 2002, 05:56:19 AM
Yeah, tell me speed doesn't matter!... When I go in for a fight and my enemy simply goes nose down and pulls away from me... yeah, speed has nothing to do with it huh? Tell me what you do in this situation... sit there and whine? It's about all you can do! Unless you feel like wasting a bunch of ammo...for no effect. To hell with jap birds, lol! Base defense, hell yeah! Otherwise, forget it! And SA? Hell, either you are outnumbered (why bother with SA, get the kill cause you're dead anyway), or you have to climb over friendlies to get to the con (oh, hey... I have the fastest plane, i get the kill! oh goody!). I guess this just turned into a Main arena squeak, lol!, main sucks... oh well... life goes on...
Title: new 109
Post by: mora on March 14, 2002, 05:59:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Naudet
Comparison between both, gave the following circle times:

E4 25 seconds alt was 3500 feet
F4 18 seconds alt was 3500 feet

the F4 is the best turning 109er ever.


Not our E4.:rolleyes:
Title: new 109
Post by: SKurj on March 14, 2002, 09:16:39 AM
Pyro
Administrator

Registered: Jul 1999
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1928
 Aww hell, I introduced a late bug in that plane. It's totally off from it's posted performance specs. I will fix it.


__________________
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations


 re 109e


SKurj
Title: new 109
Post by: Wilbus on March 14, 2002, 11:43:36 AM
Fats, that's got nothing to do with SA just with good judgement and good planning. A faster and better tuning plane WILL HAVE A HUGE ADVANTAGE no matter the other pilots SA is good or bad.