Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fdiron on March 11, 2002, 05:14:31 PM
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The other night I was flying a 262 over central Mindano and I spot 3 B17s in formation. It appeared they were heading to bomb the Bishop's main city. Not wanting to lose my 262, I fly over the formation of bombers to set up for a head on attack. I decided to attack the last bomber in the formation (echelon left) with a 1:00 head on attack. So at about d5.0 I turn my jet around and start diving in on my target. I would estimate my speed to be around 500mph. At 500 yards, I open fire on the bomber. I am firing at his right wing root. I dont see any tracers from his guns, but I do notice my cannon shells are hitting his tail. As soon as I am past him my right wing breaks off (perhaps he was not using tracers)but fortunately he dies before I do and I get the kill.
My question is- What is the best angle to attack a b17 from? I was attacking from the 1:00 to 2:00 position and our rate of closure was well over 600mph. Any advice on attacking B17s in an Me262 would be appreciated.
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The safest way in the 262 is the same as with other fighters, attack from directly overhead. The B17's top guns are almost useless against a steep diving attacker. The problem is the 262 guns are hard to aim in a 80+ degree blind deflection shot, so it takes practice. Also, the 262 builds up speed fast so only attack from D2 or so above the bomber, so you don't overspeed before you can pull out.
ra
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Straight up.
Unfortunately, it is allso one of the hardest attacks to set up and execute, but there is a big gun 'blind zone' directly above most if not all bombers.
( the turrets cannot be elevated to fire directly upwards )
P.S. in the case of three '17s in close formation, even this will be risky, as no matter which plane you attack, the other two will get a shot at you....the whole point of bomber formations really.
Blue
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Gutsy move with your perkies on 3 buffs...
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I've found out that the best approach on 262 vs b17 is to head directly to the other way before the sob hunts you down and kills you. And no, I'm not talking about the 262 as being the hunter either ;)
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I completely agree msid:)
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RL and AH are different things. :)
Ever seen those guncams where 109 shoots b17 engines from 200 yeards one after another?
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262 can easily wipe out all 3 buffs.
the trick is not to stay on 'track' in your approach and don't get too close.
short fast passes, short gun bursts and DON"T GET TOO CLOSE.
from head on (slightly off to the side and below is good)
from above (especially with a bit of spiral)
never from 6.
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i lost 4 262s in a similiar fashion a little while after they came out.
however i was never "shot down". every single time it was my own stupid fault.
i would set up a nice approach, dive down and watch for the tracers start to come up. (btw i dont think you can turn tracers off in buffs can you? and if you did that would be suicide.) Anyway, id have such bad tunnel vision and target fixation that i wouldnt keep track of my speed. (i used to do some street drag racing a couple years ago, never knew how fast i went, like id be looking down at the speedo.) But i could tell that i was hauling large ass, not so fast as to make the plane creak or shake, prolly about 450 to 500 mph
id make my pass, get some hits and the buff (or buffs) would open up on me. id jink or pull up to avoid the gunfire and set up another run....
BANG off go my wingtips or my wings altogether.
fdiron i think this is maybe what happened to you. It seems that though the bulk of the airframe can withstand very high speed in 0g flight, if you are even slightly heavy on the controls, she will tear up on you.
p.s.
i used to have video of one of these occurences where i ripped both of my wingtips off attacking a b26. I managed to RTB but overshot the runway and ended up in a deep gulley. I taxied around for about 20 mins till i finally got it rolling up a fairly steep hill. After clearing a group of trees at the top of the hill by mere inches, i ran out of gas on short final and augered. It was too funny to be mad about losing the perks (half my squad was there watching the circus.) :D
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Ag and I killed 10 lancs and 10 b17s in one sortie in 262s....
In bigweek I flew right through the formations of buffs in all 4 frames.....
I killed a total of 10 out right and had 5 assists.
I kill umm all from near 6.
The trick is to make them track you through several gunner positions. Make him switch around. That way he cant track you as well and doesnt have time to get a good line.
any approach on a buff that is straight on your part gives the gunner a chance to line up his shots. Be it 12 6 3 or 9.
You dont need to do a bunch of crazy manuvers that through off your shot. Get one of your mates and go to the ta and practice.
Its sometimes tough because the position of the buff on fe and your position on his fe will be off. but you can learn.
AG killed 90 buffs in 1 tour............
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What ra and Bluedog said.
eskimo
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Thanks for the advice guys. Heres a little bit more information about my situation. I am pretty sure I didnt overstress the airframe because I kept my course pretty straight while attacking the enemy B17. Perhaps I should have broken off the attack, but I flew within d20 of the bomber. Guess I had a bad case of target fixation.
Also
- You can turn off tracers in a bomber
-Big week bombers suffered horribly from lag. I flew a B17 in Big Week and couldnt track enemy fighters in a big formation due to extreme warps and lots of lag.
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I tried the dead above approach on b17 with 262, end result was that he pinged me and took parts off way before I had the chance to aim, let alone shoot.
On second pass I went first above him, then dove below to force to switch positions - he pinged my flap and engine off and again I never had the chance to shoot back.
I'd say 10 buff kills in any plane is either beginners in buffs or extreme luck / lag.
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Alot probably depends on the buff pilot/gunner. I've killed 3 B17s and 1 Lancaster in a single sortie before (in an F4U-1c).
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as always it's both..
attacker and defender and how they match up.
still , IMO, best bet for survival is to keep him tracking as described above.
Speed , few hits, pull off.. never straight in for long.
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I killed two lanny's in one pass belly attack.
It was my very first lucky mission with the me 262. Bombers flying close formation is good :D
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Belly attacks are THE best thing to do with 262...vs ANY target.
1) It prevents over-speed & wing rip problem
2) You dont dive into HO'ing cons.
3) 262 unholy zoom rate when its at 500+ mph catches many buffs off-guard. Especially if they are trying to keep you in sight from straight below. Its also harder to shoot a plane coming from 90 degrees below you.
4) If Buff IS watching you and shoots at you, it is very easy to disengage from the attack & not get hit. (shooting at a con straight down has the problem of the target's icon covering the target plane.. and the buff movement itself throws aim off)
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Ive done a lot of buff attacking in a 262, infact when I take one up thats all I use it for.
Ive found that from above attacks tend to get me in bad situations.
I like using more level attacks in the 262 from about 3:30 position or as tac uses a starting at 600 mph zoom attack, the zoom attack is a bit tricky do to the space you need for a pull up. I never squeeze the triger until with in 300 yards, only there for about 1 - 2 secs.
HiTech