Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NATEDOG on March 13, 2002, 05:50:38 PM
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http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,53%7E458922,00.html
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I like it. Should bring back the generals and the senators to play alongside the quakers too.
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I like "Hammering Honkies" better. Think I'd even buy a T-shirt then.
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Yeah, they would have made a better point with "Cracker" or "Pale-face" but I guess this is a good start. Good for them.
-Sikboy
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Now this is a cause I could actually get behind! :)
No whining, done with a sense of humour, but still making their point. Order your t-shirts now!
bowser
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i think it backfired on them, some of us are not ashamed to be white.
the wash redskins should be called saxons, then you can read "saxons defeat vikings", instead of "redskins defeat vikings"
(i know the redskins don't win games, but you get the point)
my hometown was founded in 1700's next to a indian village and was named for the chief of the village at the time, our teams name is "indians" and the logo is a indian head in profile with full headdress, i think it honors the chief who welcomed the whites to settle next to his village.
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I like it. After all, I've never been offended by Notre Dame's mascot. Even if he does look like one of my great-uncles.
:D
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Originally posted by john9001
i think it backfired on them, some of us are not ashamed to be white.
I think you missed the point here.
Kudos to the Fightin' Whities!
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definately missed the point.
They're trying, successfully I think, to prove a point.
How rediculous race sterotyping is...
WTG
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That was his point, and I agree. It did backfire because I have yet to see a single person offended by the name. It was supposed to be a taste of your own medicine so to speak, but everyone likes the taste.
I actually agree with them on some (not all, but some) of the names used, but they really blew it here. They've given people nationwide an answer to "how would you like it?", and the answer apparantly is I like it.
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Funny how the anti-PC crowd came running as if this was some kind of corroboration. LOL....when it is meant to be just the opposite. WTG Whities!
What about the:
Court Crackers
Honkies with Hops
Pinto Drivers
:D
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Nobody would care on those either. Hell you could use Arkansas Trailer Trash and nobody would be offended.
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It got them into the paper, and we all read about it.
What do you think the chances are that the offending team name will be changed in 6 months? Pretty good, I'd wager. I think their point is well made, and will result in the change they wanted.
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I think the "Bouncing Blackies" would make a good basketball team name too :)
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How many people in this thread even know about the fighting reds? How many are more inclined to think it should be changed now than before? How many are less inclined because now that they have a refrerence to judge by they no longer see it as offensive?
From now on anytime a name is brought up as insensitive or racist, a response can be made "I didn't mind the Fighting Whities, what's your problem?"
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Careful you don't step in that argument.
:rolleyes:
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Ragin' Rednecks, now's there's a good name.
Some folks are just too sensitive and looking for something to complain about.
Honkies with Hops....LOL.
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Originally posted by Fatty
How many people in this thread even know about the fighting reds? How many are more inclined to think it should be changed now than before? How many are less inclined because now that they have a refrerence to judge by they no longer see it as offensive?
From now on anytime a name is brought up as insensitive or racist, a response can be made "I didn't mind the Fighting Whities, what's your problem?"
So as long as you don't mind being called a "Whitey" you don't think people of color should mind racially insensitive names too? The article led me to believe it was the cartoon stereotype of a hook-nosed, hideously grinning Native American that they found to be insulting.
Maybe the "Bouncing Blackies" could print a cartoon stereotype of a black man, natty hair and big wide grin, bouncing a watermelon. I'm sure nobody would object to that, right? Wear THAT T-shirt to South Central LA.
Or maybe start a swim team and call it the "Wetbacks" with a t-shirt depicting Mexicans in wife-beater t-shirts and Cholo pants running over the border with border patrol agents in hot persuit- Who would possibly object to that?
Personally though I don't buy the arguement that because one Irishman isn't offended by the "Fighting Irish" nickname, that therefore other ethnic peoples have no right to be offended by "Fighting Reds". What if Notre Dame's nickname was the "Drunken Fighting Irish?" I'm sure someone would be offended by that stereotype also. I referred to Japanese planes as "Jap junk" once and wis rebuffed by a squad mate who is Japanese American. I hadn't thought I was being insensitive, but my squadie did, and for that reason alone I quit referring to Japanese planes as "Jap junk."
I agree with Bowser. They've made their point very well, and they might sell a million t-shirts and raise money for a very good cause. My only concern is the motive behind some of the people who will buy the shirt.
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Okay, as I'm apparantly becoming racially insensitive, I'll explain slowly and clearly.
I do not like the name Fighting Reds. Particularly combined with the indianhead symbol, it's in horrible taste and should go.
I could care less about the fighting whities, and do not find it offensive. If they want to call themselves the oppresive man that's fine, or fat drunk trailer trash, whatever.
I do not agree that using an unoffensive name goes very far in making a point about offensive names. Particularly when it is presented as a tit-for-tat in offensive names. Anyone who does like the Fighting Reds will be very quick to point this out, and be even more selfrightous in their indifference to people's offense at the name.
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Funny thing is, sports illistrated did a poll of American indians and 87percent said they were not offended by team names.
When you name a franchise or sports team you probably would pick a team name that inspired respect not somthing that would get you laughed at by the fans.
BTW the cleveland indians were named by Jim Thorpe.. last I heard he was an American Indian
go fighting whities !!
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I agree with Bowser. They've made their point very well, and they might sell a million t-shirts and raise money for a very good cause. My only concern is the motive behind some of the people who will buy the shirt.
They didn't make any point at all. They were hoping we'd all get offended, so we could then understand their point of view. Problem is we aren't offended, so they didn't prove anything.
And most people buying the shirt are going to be "whities" who think it's a cool shirt.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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White liberal activists are far more offended by "Indian" type team names than the Indians themselves. Thats a fact.
BTW I'm not at all surprised this started on a college campus....
Where's the national guard when we really need them? :D
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Originally posted by koala
They didn't make any point at all. They were hoping we'd all get offended, so we could then understand their point of view. Problem is we aren't offended, so they didn't prove anything.
And most people buying the shirt are going to be "whities" who think it's a cool shirt.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
According to the article the team decided to use some "provacitive humor" to puncuate its point. I doubt they were trying to offend anyone. It seems to me that if they intended to be offensive they would have called themselves a different, more derogatory name.
I thought they made a very good point with humor and class, and plus they'll make a truck load of money on t-shirt sales. And BTW, not EVERY issue is a conservative vs. liberal issue, guys, and anyway, Grunherz, these weren't "white liberal activists" who objected to the Fighting Reds mascot- they were Native Americans.
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Originally posted by koala
They didn't make any point at all. They were hoping we'd all get offended, so we could then understand their point of view. Problem is we aren't offended, so they didn't prove anything.
And most people buying the shirt are going to be "whities" who think it's a cool shirt.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
Lets see....they have an article in a very large daily paper, and have fostered discussions by us and probably many others like us....sounds like the point was well made. They obviously didn't need to be as offensive as the name they are trying to draw attention to. :cool:
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I thought they made a very good point with humor and class, and plus they'll make a truck load of money on t-shirt sales.
Okay. Sounds good.
So, what point did they make?
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Originally posted by koala
Okay. Sounds good.
So, what point did they make?
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
Sometimes drawing attention to something IS the point.
And Grun....please read the article before commenting. These are Native Americans as well as college students.
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on the money, midnight (or should I call you target?)
Careful though, people like to ignore actual points that are made so that they can continue to argue with each other (see my similar post above).
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Midnight is someone else ... I am Target, or Tahgut in the MA. Midnight is the CO of the 412th, and his name actually originates from the same place mine does.
All members of the Nightmare squadron have Midnight in their name.....its a tradition thing. Midnight of the 412th was a former member of the 'mares. Midnight.
Tahgut
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Fatty... being half native-american myself,
I don't find either offensive.
I find them both pretty cool actually .
AND I live in Colorado and have followed (very distantly) the reds ...
I applaud their sense of humor actually. To me it was more about the humorous part..
I definately like it.
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The Injun's play basketball?
The clever t-shirt gimic has opened my eye's at least. I thought all Indians were drunks and owned casino's.
I think it's great they are learning games and stuff.
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So... when are those with "Vicking" or "Irish" heritage going to start the great woe-is-me whine about being cast in a sterotypical light?
I'm honestly offended at the entire argument. Having a team name such as "Indians" or "Redskins" is and was always meant to be a gesture of honor. To whine about it is nothing more than a particularly pathetic attempt to get attention. I dunno, maybe I missed something but I don't EVER recall the word "Redskin" being used as a racial slur.
As far as "The Fighting Whities" goes, ...doesn't bother me a bit. Actually I think it's rather funny, all things considered. I think they could have done a better job for thier cause with "The Whiteskins" in that it's comparable to "Redskins" and because IMO they chose "Whitey" simply because that word "could" infer a racial slur.
"How would I like it?" .... GREAT! heheh
GO WHITIES!!
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It's all got to do with self perception.
If I hint to my wife that she may or may not be getting a little heavy, it devastates her. Yet, she can call me any name in the book, go into detail with insults, and I couldn't care less.
If minorities could somehow find a way to not let the little crap bother them, they'd get farther. Much farther.
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hblair,
I think you hit the nail on the head. That’s the root of the whole mess right there, this whole damn PC mess.
People need to realize that they can (and should) be in control of how they feel. It’s up to you to decide whether to be offended or just see the humor.
All this crap about he made me feel this way, or they made me feel that way. If they give others that much control over their feelings and self worth it's no wonder they feel like victims all the time. Nothing I agree to say or not ever say again is going to change that. These sad whinny little people are just going to find something else to be offended about.
The reason I’m not offended by the 'fight'n whities' has nothing to do with how offensive or not the name is.
It has everything to do with the fact that I don’t give a rat’s bellybutton what these people think of me. So they can point out all the stereo-types about me they want and I can see the humor and not be offended (hell some of them are pretty close to right on- I am getting heavier and the hair's thinning a bit).
The point is I could be offended, I'm not. I could see the humor, I do. The choice is mine, I’m in control of how I look at the situation. I’m in control of how I feel about their views of people of my race (or whatever type of group we are stereo typing today)
These people who can’t take control of there own feelings are always going to find something to be offended by and frankly I don’t have time to care about it.
Am I racially insensitive? No, I can definitely sense that certain statements, names, and stereo-types offend these people.
I’m not insensitive; it’s just that I don’t give a damn.
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The point is I could be offended, I'm not. I could see the humor, I do. The choice is mine, I’m in control of how I look at the situation. I’m in control of how I feel about their views of people of my race (or whatever type of group we are stereo typing today)
Are you honestly suggesting that NO racial epithet is hurtful or damaging unless that particular race decides to "let it hurt"?
So all those Black People out there should just lighten up when I use the word "cupcake". I was just joking for krise sakes! What? Not a fair comparison? Where is the line drawn? Do we let the majority decide what the minority is allowed to be called? :mad:
Words CAN be hurtful even if you are as well adjusted as you are capt.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Are you honestly suggesting that NO racial epithet is hurtful or damaging unless that particular race decides to "let it hurt"?
So all those Black People out there should just lighten up when I use the word "cupcake". I was just joking for krise sakes! What? Not a fair comparison? Where is the line drawn? Do we let the majority decide what the minority is allowed to be called? :mad:
Words CAN be hurtful even if you are as well adjusted as you are capt.
Glad you brought that up. I was watching cnbc or something liek that the other night. There was a white guy interviewing a black man who had written a book. The name of the book was "cupcake- the strange history of a word". The black guy sat there calmly and talked about the word cupcake, it's uses among blacks as a sign of affection, it's uses as a weapon against blacks, etc. The white guy would get get perplexed when this very intelligent black man would say the word cupcake nonchalantely in his speaking. This black man was ok with the word. Knew its uses, knew it couldn't hurt him. If more minorities were as confident as this guy, instead of getting all bowed up and pissed when they heard the word, would just act as if they'd said "turd" or something. Giving no reaction takes away all the power.
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yes target, that is exactly what i'm saying.
i hear blacks in my nehborhood call each other cupcake all the time, they say it to each other as freinds and don't seem to get offended by it. why is that ? if i said it they would deffinatly be offended. does the word sound different coming out of my mouth as opposed to a black persons? I don't think so, it's the same word.
so it must not be the word, it's their perception of the situation, their feelings when the word is spoken. feelings that nobody has control over if not them.
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Well spoken by both of you, however quite wrong. Words alone can and do hurt especially when directed against an oppressed minority. Please read this exerpt from the conviction at Nuremburg of Julius Streicher.
The sole offense for which the accused was ordered put to death was in having served as publisher/editor of a Bavarian tabloid entitled Der Sturmer during the early-to-mid 1930s, years before the Nazi genocide actually began. In this capacity, he had penned a long series of virulently anti-Semetic editorials and ''news."
Stories, usually accompanied by cartoons and other images graphically depicting Jews in extraordinarily derogatory fashion. This, the prosecution asserted, had done much to "dehumanize" the targets of his distortion in the mind of the German public. In turn, such dehumanization had made it possible or at least easier for average Germans to later indulge in the outright liquidation of Jewish "vermin." The tribunal agreed, holding that Streicher was therefore complicit in genocide and deserving of death by hanging.
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Yep
they have empowered a word to control their intelligence
I think I'd laugh at whoever called me a whop or dego now a days and think the guy a moroooon :)
Been different when I was a kid (14 -21), but kinda just grew out of it or just grew up ...
think there was a Boston Public episode not to long ago dealing with the same double standard ..
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:eek: PC carried to the ultimate extreme, a man hung for expressing himself? (no matter how outragously stupid his opinions are) now there is a society worth living in.
so as i understand it you are in suport of this punishment and posted it in suport of your argument. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
:eek: PC carried to the ultimate extreme, a man hung for expressing himself? (no matter how outragously stupid his opinions are) now there is a society worth living in.
so as i understand it you are in suport of this punishment and posted it in suport of your argument. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: So, I assume you think this is wrong, and that Streicher was just "expressing himself"?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You seem to have missed the point. It is NOT how the minority views the epithet, it is how the minority is dehumanized by the epithet. Shall we continue to allow people to be dehumanized?
This has nothing to do with PC, and has everything to do with courtesy and civility.
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yes i think the verdict was wrong.
you don't hang people for what they say or print.
words didn't kill all those jews. men guns, gas, etc did. they are responsable for their actions not some guy who wrote a few articls
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If minorities could somehow find a way to not let the little crap bother them, they'd get farther. Much farther.
Spoken by a true member of the majority race who has never had to endure the brutal truth of racism.
I am willing to say that minorities will accomplish much more for their respective ethnic groups if they start being proactive instead of reactive. However, I am also aware of the ongoing racism that is ever present in the wonderful US of A. I will also say that it took my marrying a minority (hispanic) to make me aware of many of the problems that have existed and continue to exist in our communities.
FWIW - I think this is AWESOME :) (T-Shirt deal). While I dont personally take offense to the Washington Redskins ... I sure find it hard to disagree with the argument that it should be changed. None of us whites take offense to the "Fightin' Whites" because throughout all of modern history in this country, Whites have been the majority. We have not had to deal with oppression and racism to the extend all other ethnic groups have. Thus, its easy for us to laugh and think its funny.
Ok, gotta work now :)
Nim
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Originally posted by aknimitz
Spoken by a true member of the majority race who has never had to endure the brutal truth of racism.
Nim
Actually, those were the words of the black author of the book who apparently has endured racism.
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Originally posted by Creamo
The Injun's play basketball?
The clever t-shirt gimic has opened my eye's at least. I thought all Indians were drunks and owned casino's.
I think it's great they are learning games and stuff.
Sheeesh, Creamo, get it right. The ITALIANS own the Casinos, the IRISH are drunks and the BLACKS play basketball. All the Indians do is sell fireworks and tax-free cigarettes.
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yes i think the verdict was wrong.
you don't hang people for what they say or print.
Oh, but wouldn't the PC crowd love it if you could.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Total coincidence: The radio station I listen to on my way to work in the mornings called one of the guys on this team. He said that they felt like the deal had backfired on them because people liked the idea.
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Of course it did. White anglo saxons usually don't get their panties in a wad over racial slurs directed at them.
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Elf, Creamo...
damn straight...
I sure as hell can NOT play basketball !!!
although I can play hockey and ski.. figure that.
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it's not that there aren't racial differences, it's that you can't mention them.
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I am quite offended at your references to crackers and honkies.
(http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/white.jpg)
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Originally posted by aknimitz
Spoken by a true member of the majority race who has never had to endure the brutal truth of racism.
I am willing to say that minorities will accomplish much more for their respective ethnic groups if they start being proactive instead of reactive. However, I am also aware of the ongoing racism that is ever present in the wonderful US of A. I will also say that it took my marrying a minority (hispanic) to make me aware of many of the problems that have existed and continue to exist in our communities.
FWIW - I think this is AWESOME :) (T-Shirt deal). While I dont personally take offense to the Washington Redskins ... I sure find it hard to disagree with the argument that it should be changed. None of us whites take offense to the "Fightin' Whites" because throughout all of modern history in this country, Whites have been the majority. We have not had to deal with oppression and racism to the extend all other ethnic groups have. Thus, its easy for us to laugh and think its funny.
Ok, gotta work now :)
Nim
Next time I hire either a lawyer or a wingman Nim is my guy.
:cool:
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man I hate agreeing with Nimitz.. but there it is.
good call.
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Why do you think it is that most caucasians on this board find the "fightin' whities" humorous. While most minorities would be upset if you called them a racial slur?
"I know!" says whitey. "THEY just don't have a sense of humor."
"THEY just can't relax."
LOL. Must be in the genes or something. I guess that's why they can't get in the country clubs, no sense of humor.
The words: cupcake, kike, gook, etc., ere used for a very long time by a people who were in a position to keep these miorities down. The words: honkey, whitey, and cracker are used by people, who for the most part aren't in a position to do anything except sling around these words.
Of course we can find the "fightin whities" laughable. As most of us don't have to deal with and racist repercusians that usually go along with racial slurs.
hblair, one question, did they interviewer call the author a cupcake during the interview?
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heard a great quote on the tv yesterday-
"we're suposed to honor your diversity while not mentioning that you're different"
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"we're suposed to honor your diversity while not mentioning that you're different"
I think it's more like this, "We're supposed to honor your diversity without insulting you".
Whoever your quote was from, was trying to misdirect the issue
And capt., you were talking about how people don't have control over the way they perceive the slurs.
I noticed, you did not mention the people who use slurs and the apparent lack over control over their mouths.
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lol.. who you calling a caucasian ?
not meaning that you're 'calling' anyone anything racial.
Just that I'm a native american and like 'fightin' whities'.
I think it goes to show, to some degree, the character of the team and I think they have a great angle.
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I was talking about the set of caucasians that found it funny, and for the record so do I. I wasn't saying that everyone that found the idea funny was part of that set.
A bit of follow up on the black author. If you phoned a black person and told them you were a reporter and wished to interview them about their feelings about the word "cupcake" and then proceeded to used that word during the interview, do you think they would be ticked off with you? Now if you went to a diner and said "Hey cupcake, can I have some more coffee?" Do you think they would be ticked off then. It's a matter of context.
I really bugs me when people blame minorities, for being upset by racism.
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i think they need to focus on using the word n***** as something positive. I watched a comedian the other night "black" who made a great joke about it. Lets name a snack food n*****.
Hey...gimme a box of cheese n******. (they have to be really tasty for this to work)
or.... i just love to have a box of sour cream and onion n****** for lunch.
etc...
lets turn the word n****** into something positive.
or not...
just an idea.. (not mine by the way)
PS: there is plenty of bigotry in other countries as well...hell look at how they automatically brand americans as a bunch of uneducated clods...that is bigotry too. but because we are the most wonderful, most powerful, most ethnically diverse and successful country on the planet, everyone wants to point a finger at our shortcomings...what about the racism in britain, france, denmark (i would hate to be a black man there), and other euro countries...or what about japan...those folks take racism to a new level...but it is all okay, they arent americans..so it is all okay....
bunch of crap i say!
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(http://shop.t-shirtoutlet.com/catalog/largeimages/EB140_Fighting_Whities.jpg)
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Lets all increase the sex .. more sex.. no matter what color, lets breed till we are grey then we wont have to worry about this and we can get back to more important things.. lower prices for alcohol.