Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on March 14, 2002, 11:08:43 PM

Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on March 14, 2002, 11:08:43 PM
The 21cm rocket the Germans have for use on their aricraft caried a standard fuze which had a couple setings on it. the Fuze: Z23LA 0.15; P.D.F with instant or delay Seting. their was a small screw on the side of the fuze which could be turned to either point impact or timed seting one simply selected which was to used. this having been said I would like to ask that we consider having this choice in the hanger, frankely the timed seting is usless except for scenarious maybe, I cant hit a thing with those rockets in the air and they don't detonate on the ground as it is now. I could make use of them as ground atack weapons.


 Source for this German Explosive Ordance  TM9-1985-2(p 249) & TM9-1985-3 (section on fuzes)
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Tumor on March 15, 2002, 03:07:37 AM
If I gotta fire a million of those stupid rockets to finally kill something I will!!!.... I think I'm roughly 1/2 way there already! :D
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Wilbus on March 15, 2002, 05:48:10 AM
Agree, would be nice to have them as ground attack rockets aswell, maybe it works to detonate them right above the ground? ;)
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Ripsnort on March 15, 2002, 07:58:06 AM
Excellent! Something along the lines of a command line, like " .fuse 1 "  for 1 sec fuse, in 1 sec increments.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: MANDOBLE on March 15, 2002, 09:25:29 AM
I haven't upgraded to 1.09 yet, but in the previous version I used these rockets for AG missions, being "very" effective against buildings. You cant see the explosions, but when u hit a small building, the building is destroyed.

I cant understand the timed OR impact system,  but not both. It is clear that when the rocket impacts something, the timer will be of litte usage. The logical way having both systems available would be to activate a timer, but explode upon impact if its the case.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Tac on March 15, 2002, 10:07:33 AM
shoot the rockets at d4.0 when HO'ing, d3.2 when coming from the sides, d1.2 when from behind.

I get a lot of hits using this. Sadly though, the damn targets dodge =P
Title: they are excellent
Post by: nilsen8 on March 15, 2002, 11:51:37 AM
Yo

I have used those rockets with the 110-g2, and have scored some kills with them..

They are good for killing lancs and b17 from behind..

I fire them from d1.0

I have also vulched with them..

:D
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on March 15, 2002, 10:33:30 PM
It would be nice to have the firepower for atack mishions aganst hard targets the point detionation fuzes would provide.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: SKurj on March 16, 2002, 09:54:05 AM
For the accuracy of these things, and gameplay...  They may as well be made to go off on impact as well as timed.

If impact doesn't occur, go off after ## seconds.


SKurj
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on March 16, 2002, 01:59:28 PM
Ya that would be great if they could do that!:)
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on October 03, 2002, 06:26:56 PM
Punt.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: hazed- on October 04, 2002, 01:57:37 AM
the range was 1000metres in real life so we should be firing from anywhere up to 3300 yards! the fuse should be able to be set to anything up to 3300yards shouldnt it?

I think having to fly within gun range of bombers completely negates the whole point of the rockets, which was to attack from outside the gunners fire.

The only thing i would add though is maybe HTC decided to shorten the distance for gameplay reasons? to stop players flying up to fighting players and launching them from afar.

either way i think the fact that they cannot damage ground targets any longer makes them a real waste when you consider how many LW flyers are asking for some form of ground rockets.If they were made into impact fuses if they hit a hard target but if fired further than the 1200 yards they should explode,(mandoble yes they did used to work as AtoG and i dont know why they were changed back to AtoA again)

this would mean in order to hit ground targets we would have to fire INSIDE the timed fuse range.I would be ok with this.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Booky on October 04, 2002, 02:36:59 AM
Wow, I never even knew this. Are these the ones on the 110? I have killed town buildings with the 110 rkts just last week.

Booky
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: hazed- on October 04, 2002, 02:57:14 AM
well you can hit if they explode before they hit the floor.they then behave much the same as the 88's at the bases and will damage stuff.but if you fire too early they explode above the target too lae they disappear.

to be honest im not totally sure but i know ive fired 4 of them into a fuel depot and nothing happened.but that was at a very low alt.
maybe someone could do some tests from different heights?
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on October 04, 2002, 03:34:18 PM
It is almost a matter of luck, if you fire at the right distance, and speed the rockets will blow up above the target, if your to close or going to fast they will impact before the exploshion and nothing hapens. I killed an M8 one night by firing them at him at like 1.3 out but I was going kinda slow so the timing was just right. I have not been able to duplicate the effect again.

 Personaly I feal that If HTC can not model the Fuze to work the way it realy did, and we can chuse to have impact or timed delay in the hanger that I for one could make much better and certainly more frequent use of these as air to ground rockets with point impact Fuzing.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: ra on October 04, 2002, 05:20:32 PM
<<>>

Closer to 1100 yards.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: hazed- on October 04, 2002, 09:54:08 PM
ra theres roughly 3 yards to a metre so what are you talking about 1100 yards?

do you mean you have to fire at 1100? or are you saying 1000 metres is equivalent to 1100 yards??
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Innominate on October 04, 2002, 11:29:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-
ra theres roughly 3 yards to a metre so what are you talking about 1100 yards?

do you mean you have to fire at 1100? or are you saying 1000 metres is equivalent to 1100 yards??


nono, There is roughly three FEET to a meter.  And three feet to a yard. 1100yards is about right.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: hazed- on October 04, 2002, 11:37:49 PM
ah :) youre right

feet and yards mix up :) doh!
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Toad on October 05, 2002, 12:53:52 AM
That whole "meters v yards" thing is just another AH anti-LW conspiracy plot. Everyone knows the meters were much, much better. They're VERY undermodeled here.

:p
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Raubvogel on October 05, 2002, 11:34:20 PM
I can't kill a damn thing in the air with them, but they will kick the watermelon out of a PT Boat :) Just fire from about 1.5 out and watch them explode right above the boat.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 06, 2002, 01:11:24 AM
Very simple!  Why not just keep the current timer setting as is but also add an impact fuze in the same rocket. That way it will either blow up on impact or eventually go off at the timer setting.  This cant be too hard to model and would be the most elegant way to represent the actal weapon.

However I am bothered by the fact that the rocket tubes cant be jettisoned after firing at least according to last I heard from HTC, I know this was possible and done in combat. I have heard some people excuse this fault by saying that it was only done in an emergency when under attack by other fighters, but why else would you jettison them except when they were endangering your life. It would be almost as stuid to say well you cant drop bombs before target when bounced because it was only done like that when in danger of getting shot and the bombs reduced performance.  Jettison the damn tubes.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: BenDover on October 06, 2002, 07:44:40 AM
1000m = 1093.613298 yards/3280.839895 feet/0.621371 mile;)
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on November 19, 2002, 12:32:54 AM
Punt.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Urchin on November 19, 2002, 01:28:25 AM
There *is* an impact fuse on the rockets.  We tested it in the DA.  If you *hit* a bomber before the rocket travels 1.3 to 1.4k, it will blow up and take the bomber (and the other bombers) with it.

I don't know why it doesnt work on ground targets, but it isn't a ground rocket, it is an air to air rocket.  That may be why people have trouble killing ground targets with it.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on November 19, 2002, 02:23:18 AM
It was initialy intended to be used as an air to ground weapon, and was later adopted for air to air use aganst bomber streams, that is why it has that fuse I mentioned above.

 If it is indead capable of point detontating aganst an air target this is the first I have ever heard of it, are u shure it simply did not time detonate at the right spot, the range will drop/rise depending on you spead and the targets spead.

 Another very curoius thing about this would be why it would detonate aganst a plane and not any other object, unless HTC fixed this, it has been a while since i fiddled with them having deamed them useless, long ago.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Urchin on November 19, 2002, 02:40:38 AM
I'm 100% positive it has an impact fuze.  Lazer, Fork, Ely, and Rugby all fired CLOSER than 1.2-1.3k yards.  They fired at 700-800 yards, and the rocket actually HIT the bomber and blew up the formation.

At least, I think it did.  I suppose if an 8 inch rocket powered projectile hit a bomber it could blow it up, but the drones blow up to, leading me to believe the rocket explodes on impact.

If you shoot at 800 yards and miss, it will fly past the bombers before the time fuze blows it up.  Believe me, I know.  I missed at all kinds of ranges from 300 yards to 1,300 yards.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: brady on November 19, 2002, 05:44:47 AM
Wierd, i wounder what would happen if you taxied o a static tank or osty and fired at them if they would blow, and if so why does it have no effect aganst buildings.
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: BlckMgk on November 19, 2002, 10:30:55 AM
Didnt HT revise the model for tanks and buildings so that the bigger cannons i.e. 37mm, 40mm don't do as much damage as they should do. I read somewhere that after 30mm it begins to taper off. In the post I read it mentioned something about shooting a hanger with 30mm is much more effective than shooting it with a 37mm, to strafe kill it. I dunno just something I'd relay... don't know much about it..

-BlckMgk
Title: WGr 21 rockets and the time fuze/impact fuze
Post by: Urchin on November 20, 2002, 02:41:55 PM
Punt.. Hitech, Pyro, Natedog, Superfly, Yankee, Ronni, Skuzzy, whoever your coffee boy is (if you don't have one, hire me)-  

I'd like to know if there are any plans to make the rocket tubes jettisonable like there was in real life.  

Thanks in advance.