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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fdiron on March 18, 2002, 04:39:55 AM

Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: fdiron on March 18, 2002, 04:39:55 AM
I have a new fondess for the P51b.  It is a very good anti-tank platform.  With just a loadout of 6 rockets and 4 machine guns, I immobilized 3 tanks and destroyed 2 other GVs in one sortie last night.  The P51b excells in anti-tank duties because of its small frontal area and from being a very stable rocket and gun platform.  Just a 2 or 3 second burst of fire to the rear of a Panzer can destroy its engine.  Last night at A12 I must have killed the engines of at least 15 panzers.  

While it has a bad reputation of ground attack, I have found the P51 to be very resistant to 7.62mm ground fire.  The only real vulnerability is its radiator.  I had my radiator hit 2 or 3 times last night and managed to return to base safely.   The speed of the 51b also allows for fast jinking gun runs in order to evade ground fire.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Animal on March 18, 2002, 05:12:31 AM
why not use the p51d, or better yet, the typhoon or mosquito?
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Staga on March 18, 2002, 06:29:13 AM
I killed chitloads of gv's with a P-47. Osties and M-16 were shooting up to the sky when I came in cutting grass with prop. Small burst from .50cals was usually enough.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Broes on March 18, 2002, 06:58:07 AM
try the new 110... one straff and 9 out of 10 times the gv will go BOOM!

:)

Broesy
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: fdiron on March 18, 2002, 07:10:29 AM
The P51b much more able to handle itself against enemy aircraft that the P47 or Me110.  Even with those big rocket tubes on the wings, the 51 is still a match for spitfires and 190s down low.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Widewing on March 18, 2002, 08:06:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
The P51b much more able to handle itself against enemy aircraft that the P47 or Me110.  Even with those big rocket tubes on the wings, the 51 is still a match for spitfires and 190s down low.


Yeah, right. Do you honestly believe that you have any chance against a Spitfire @ Co-E at any altitude, much less on the deck? Trust me, you'd be in deep bandini. For that matter, I would be extremely concerned about meeting a 190A-5 or 190D-9 under such circumstances too. Indeed, there's few things I like more than some Mustang jock wanting to turnfight on the deck. I suggest you keep it fast if you wish to survive. You have no business dogfighting with Spits in a P-51B, with or without rocket tubes.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: SKurj on March 18, 2002, 10:37:57 AM
I made 4-5 passes on a panzer in the 110 with 4 20's 2 30's...

Didn't scratch im +(  it probably shouldn't but i had to see for myself


SKurj
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Replicant on March 18, 2002, 10:58:05 AM
fdiron

I was in a Pnzr whilst you had your P51B sortie.  I had hit several Pnzrs with up to 8 rounds yet a friendly plane would swoop in straffing and end up getting the kill.  

Therefore it might be worth re-evaluating the P51B when there is just you and and enemy GV and not having a friendly Pnzr helping doing the killing.  I got about 7 or 8 kills and probably double that in assists.  :(

Regards

Nexx
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Hammerhead on March 18, 2002, 12:24:57 PM
I have flown the B-stang quite often and I must say that its not a good thing for ground attacks, (D is probably better). However in the air the P51-B surpasses the D in terms of speed and manoveurability. Its a much better turner than a D-stang.
Down low I have out-manoevered a LA-7 (in a B-stang) and then chased him across an entire map........In a D-stang I would have been scrap metal.
The B-stang is good for aerial battles......superb vertical moves...
The worst thing is those rocket tubes........excess drag you can't get rid of even after the job is done......

However, all in all, its one pretty looking plane...


:D :D :D
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: MadBirdCZ on March 18, 2002, 12:44:29 PM
P-51B looks better than D and I like to fly it more than the D model too but when it comes to GV busting... Well... Umm... No jug no stang no tyffie no mossie but the Bf-110G-2 Oh yeah Baby! The one with gondie and 4 bombs under wings... The GVs just POP :D
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: JoeCrip on March 18, 2002, 02:08:23 PM
Just becasue the P51 was called "Tank Buster" in "Saving Private Ryan" doesnt mean that it is....If i recall , p47's where the USAAF choice for tank busting. Me110, Mossie, and Typhoon are other great ground attackers
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Lars on March 18, 2002, 02:14:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
fdiron

I was in a Pnzr whilst you had your P51B sortie.  I had hit several Pnzrs with up to 8 rounds yet a friendly plane would swoop in straffing and end up getting the kill.  



This happens all too often. Hit an enemy with 5,6,7,8 AP's only to have some .50cal plane come in and get the kill with ONE burst...sure does suck!

Lars
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: fdiron on March 18, 2002, 08:26:23 PM
Replicant-The only time I got instant kills were when I used my rockets on the Panzers.  All the other times I destroyed the engines on the Panzers with sustained fire on the rear of the tanks.  

Widewing-  Please take your advice and shove it up your *BEEP*.  You can continue to fly your super slow aircraft on ground attack missions, I will stick with a plane that is faster than a world war 1 fighter.

JoeCrip-I am pretty sure that if they said the P51 was a tankbuster in Saving Private Ryan, it makes that statement 100% true.  Movies don't lie.  On a side note, P51s really did attack tanks in the ETO.  After escorting Allied bombers to their target, some P51 flights were allowed to strafe targets of oppurtunity.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Kieran on March 18, 2002, 09:55:18 PM
Quote
JoeCrip-I am pretty sure that if they said the P51 was a tankbuster in Saving Private Ryan, it makes that statement 100% true. Movies don't lie. On a side note, P51s really did attack tanks in the ETO. After escorting Allied bombers to their target, some P51 flights were allowed to strafe targets of oppurtunity.


BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh no you di'-in't. Oh NO you di-in't!

You did NOT say movies don't lie!?

mmmHMMMMmm, girlfrien', that is goin' TOO far! ;)
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: hblair on March 19, 2002, 01:59:47 AM
hehe, now that is some good bait fdiron. :)
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: oboe on March 19, 2002, 07:14:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
JoeCrip-I am pretty sure that if they said the P51 was a tankbuster in Saving Private Ryan, it makes that statement 100% true.  Movies don't lie...

:rolleyes:
I know there is a hook in that bait somewhere... a fatter, juicier worm is rarely seen.

Ever see that Iron Eagle movie where they used WWII warbirds to accomplish some dumb mission?   Louis Gosset Jr's character made a statement about how P-38s cleaned up on the Japanese during the Battle of Midway.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Widewing on March 19, 2002, 08:30:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
Replicant-The only time I got instant kills were when I used my rockets on the Panzers.  All the other times I destroyed the engines on the Panzers with sustained fire on the rear of the tanks.  

Widewing-  Please take your advice and shove it up your *BEEP*.  You can continue to fly your super slow aircraft on ground attack missions, I will stick with a plane that is faster than a world war 1 fighter.

JoeCrip-I am pretty sure that if they said the P51 was a tankbuster in Saving Private Ryan, it makes that statement 100% true.  Movies don't lie.  On a side note, P51s really did attack tanks in the ETO.  After escorting Allied bombers to their target, some P51 flights were allowed to strafe targets of oppurtunity.


So, fdiron, how long were you deprived of oxygen? ;)

FYI, I use the Typhoon, F6F-5, Bf 110G-2 and Fw 190 (A-5 and F-8) for jabo work. For air to air, I prefer the 190A-5, N1K2, SpitfireV/Seafire and Hurricane. However, I have no aversion to going after GVs in any type, should the opportunity arise. Note that every one of the above aircraft are cannon armed, making them automatically more effective for strafing vehicles than the under-gunned P-51B. Choose your own poison, but I prefer a more effective aircraft for mud moving than the Mudstain B.

By the way, what is your arena handle?

My regards,

Widewing
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: illo on March 19, 2002, 08:59:25 AM
Quote
I made 4-5 passes on a panzer in the 110 with 4 20's 2 30's...

Didn't scratch im +( it probably shouldn't but i had to see for myself

Yup 20 and 30mms (unless MK101 or mk103) have no change to penetrate Pz-IV armor. With .50cals it was just the same. Even 37mm Flak using wolfram cored ammunition could just barely penetrate T-34 side turrets at close ranges  for example. This is why 50/75mm PaKs were fitted and tested on planes like Hs-129 and Ju-88. all up to 30mm cannons were only good for strafing halftracks, trucks and  armored cars. I recently read that shooting through air ventilation holes on rear deck of panzers could have some success with disabling the engine...even with .50cals.

Otherwise it's only over 30mm HV guns that can kill tanks with rear, side and top shots. Even 50mm PaK may have problems with tanks like churchills and KVs. 75mm Pak is only sure killer.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Angus on March 19, 2002, 09:11:33 AM
P.O Jonsson of 65th squadron RAF flying P51C's was on combat air patrol with some of his squadmates in the autumn 1944. He spotted a train below and dove on it to check it out. BINGO, a tank transport train on the way to the front!
Having no ordnance, he dove on the train and put a few hundred bullet holes into it. Train stopped. Jonsson radioed HQ so they could send in the Tiffies to finish off the helpless tanks.
In his words: "The Typhoons were well equipped for it and we weren't":p
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: SKurj on March 19, 2002, 10:29:33 AM
Yes Angus only because the Typh was commonly carrying rockets for just that task.
I have pilot accounts of spits strafing tanks to no effect, who then pulled off, and let rocket armed typhs do the job right +)


SKurj
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Swoop on March 19, 2002, 01:36:31 PM
I specifically remember seeing an interview of an ex Tiff pilot on Discovery not so long ago.   He said that if a tank was on a hard surface (like a road) they would aim slightly in front of the tank so that rounds would ricochett (sp?) up from the road into the soft underbelly of the tank, rather than just aim for the upper armour.

If a tank was on soft ground then it wouldnt work.

(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Revvin on March 19, 2002, 02:54:03 PM
I've heard reports that close hits by bombs would flip Panzers in RL yet the other night a squad mate got two 500lb bombs and 6 rockets all within but a few yards of a parked Ostwind and it did'nt appear to take any damage at all and went on to score a number of kills before finally being killed.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Raubvogel on March 19, 2002, 02:57:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
I specifically remember seeing an interview of an ex Tiff pilot on Discovery not so long ago.   He said that if a tank was on a hard surface (like a road) they would aim slightly in front of the tank so that rounds would ricochett (sp?) up from the road into the soft underbelly of the tank, rather than just aim for the upper armour.

If a tank was on soft ground then it wouldnt work.

(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)


:rolleyes:

Take a .50 cal round...fire it at an angle at pavement....see what kind of ballistics and kinetic energy it has after impact.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Fester' on March 19, 2002, 03:15:36 PM
Had a pretty cool hop ina 110G-2 against ground armor the other night.  Killed 5 Panzers, all rear hemisphere kills.  Hitting from the side doesnt seem to do a whole lot.

All other vehicles die pretty easy under that firepower.

Anyone use rockets in the 110 to any positive effect?  I stick to the guns.


FesCAF
Title: Re: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: Ripsnort on March 19, 2002, 03:42:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron

  The only real vulnerability is its radiator.  I had my radiator hit 2 or 3 times last night and managed to return to base safely.   The speed of the 51b also allows for fast jinking gun runs in order to evade ground fire.


Thats because the inexperience of the tankers to aim for the wings, not the body, of the incoming aircraft. :) Tougher to hit, but when you find the sweet spot...bub-bye!
Title: Tank Flipping
Post by: MOTJD on March 19, 2002, 03:51:17 PM
Last night whilst doing some ground work in my Tyffie!!!. We were shooting some tanks running downhill (boy was that fun and alot easier than if they were standing still)> Anyways, i straffed one hard in the rear and he flipped and rolled several times before exploding.. i laughed so hard i almost crashed myself.
Title: P51b- Tank Buster
Post by: MrLars on March 19, 2002, 04:05:31 PM
Rips right. You have to aim for something else besides the prop disk. I try for one of the wings or just over the wing to hit the tail section. When the plane passes a quick shot to the canopy will surely get you a few whiney comebacks on CH 1 :D