Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sparks on March 23, 2002, 04:21:26 AM
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Mid life crisis is in full swing and I WANT A SPORTS CAR !!!!! WAAAAAAA [/i] ...........
anyway money is tightish and so I'm looking at either a 300ZX or a Mitsubishi 3000GT. My own preference is for the 300ZX which seems an awful lot of performance for the money.
So has anyone here actually owned one and can tell me the good bad and ugly about living with one.
Sparks
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I owned a 92. It was one of my favorite cars.
The only down side was the 225 HP normally asperated engine was a bit underpowered. Get ready to put some money into it if you can afford it. I don't have any experience with the twin turbo version... but it is rated at some 280 HP.
Its one of the most neutral handling cars I've ever driven. You have to stick with rear wheel drive to get that kind of balance.
As for the 2000GT... don't even think about that. Those are progressing into POS status right now.
The basic rules apply when buying the 300zx. Make sure the timing belt has been replaced. Have it thuroughly checked out. Pay particular attention to the details and check out every light/switch/knob on the thing.
AKDejaVu
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Yep,..owned a 300ZX Twin Turbo for 10 years. I would go with it over the 3000GT anyday of the week.
I was part of a sports club that would race and there were many types of sports cards in it. Most of the guys that owned the 3000GT's wish they had gone with the 300ZX. Apparently, the transmission cases in the 3000GT were not strong enough for the weight to engine power. I saw several blow trannys in the straights or burn clutches on launch.
The 300ZX cars would just run and run. The 300ZX also proved more stable at speed. It appeared the 3000GT's would get upset easily by any imperfections in the road surface which lead to the 300ZX's always wiping them out at the track.
Keep in mind, we pushed our cars pretty hard, so things would break that may not normally break in day to day usage.
I modified my car pretty heavily for the track, but when stock, I really loved it as a road car.
As far as maintenance goes, every 50,000 miles the cam belts have to be replaced. Do this religiously.
The resell value of the 300ZX is going up, and the 3000GT is going down. That says something about the cars. I bought my in 91 for just over 30G's. Last year I sold it for 20G's. Not a bad investment. I do not know of many cars you can drive for 10 years and only lose 10G's from the initial investment.
If you are looking for a really stable platform, I would go with the non-turbo Z. It is not the fastest kid on the block, but costs much less to maintain. Nissan charges a premium for anything related to the Twin Turbo, but of you get a Twin Turbo, here is what to look for.
1) Get a 93 or later model. In 93 Nissan switch from the hydraulically controlled rear steering to an electrically controlled unit which is faster, lighter and more dependable.
2) After you test drive the car, let it idle for about 10 minutes. If the turbo seals are suspect you will see an amount of blue smoke from the exhaust. Nissan does not offer rebuilt turbos and new ones run about 3G's to replace.
3) Find a way to get under the car (it sets really low) and check for oil seepage from the rear mains. Where the transmission meets the engine block if there is an accumulation of oil at the bottom, then the rear mains are shot. This also indicates the car was driven way to hard without regular oil replacement.
4) This is somewhat a personal preference, but look for a car that does NOT have power seats. The non-power seats are significantly better and more comfortable on trips. They were designed and built by Recaro. The power seats are Nissan junk covered with leather, which you will regret the first time you push the car into a hard turn.
5) Pull the carpet up on the passenger side of the car. It is held in place with velcro. This is where you will find the engine control computer. It is covered with a wooden plank. Nissan used wood to prevent condensation around the computer. Check the wood for water stains. One of the unfortunate design issues is the overflow tray for the air conditioning unit is located above the computer control and if the overflow hose gets plugged, water will spill into the computer system.
6) Check the exterior upper seal of the windshield. It is a small bead of rubber. Make sure it is secure. If the windshield has ever been replaced, then there is a good chance this seal will be lose.
7) Check the rear hatch interior panel. This panel will break lose if the rear hatch is slammed too hard.
8) Check the spare tire under the rear carpet of the hatch area. It is one of those inflatable spares and has a place for the refill tank. Make sure the refill tank is good and the spare is anchored.
9) Next to the spare tire is the tool bin. It contains the jack and wrench for the spare mounting. It is made from molded styrofoam and if any pieces are missing they will need to be replaced.
10) The 300ZX uses a power hydraulic clutch. Some lazy and or cheap people will not replace the power module on the clutch if it goes bad. Raise the hood, you will see the clutch hydraulic unit next to the master brake unit. If there is not a vacuum hose going to the clutch master cylinder, then the guy has removed it and plugged the vacuum line. The clutch will work fine, but requires twice the pedal pressure to operate.
11) Under the front of the 300ZA is a panel which closes off the engine bay, allowing for better air flow under and through the engine compartent. If this is missing it will need to be replaced. Some maintenace guys will pull it off to make it easier to change the oil and tighten the fan belts and not put it back. You will suffer engine overheating and more interior noise with this panel gone.
12) Check the front suspension for spring sag. Take the car to a front end shop and have them check the alignment. If they tell you the caster cannot be put into factory specifications, it is due to the springs sagging and they will need to be replaced. The 300ZX has a fixed camber which requires proper spring heights. This can be changed with some after market parts, which is something else to check for.
13) A note on the transmission. If the car has a standard transmission, the downshift from second to first is a bit notchy. This is not to be a concern. However, if the downshift from 4th to 3rd is notchy, then the transmission is in need of help. It should slip quietly, easily, and swiftly from 4th to 3rd at all speeds. Same is true from 5th to 4th.
14) The interior lights of the 300ZX fade from light to dark slowly when the door is closed. Make sure they do. If they do not, then the computer system is malfunctioning. Likewise, make sure when you pull the drivers door handle up the keyhole lights and the interior lights come on.
15) Check the front brake rotos for scaring and make sure the front wheel cylinders are not seeping. The front brakes of the 300ZX TT need replacing every 30,000 miles or so. DO NOT replace the pads with cheap after market pads. The pads of the 300ZX TT are semi-mettalic. Using soft pads will cause braking problems.
Some other notes.
The 300ZX TT uses different front and rear size tires and the wheels for the left and right are made so the wheel openings act as vents for brake cooling. This means you cannot rotate the tires of this car.
The tires are also Z rated and uni-directional. Do not let someone talk you into rotating the tires.
As the 300ZX TT turbos use the engin oil for lubrication and cooling it is important to note you need to allow about 2 to 5 minutes of normal non-boosted driving to allow the turbos to cool or you will end up coking the turbos.
Oil change intervals for the TT are 3,000 miles. You better make it 2,000 miles if you drive the car in anything other than normal driving. The car with an oil filter change requires 3.5 U.S. quarts of oil. You are okay to use 4 quarts, but most oil change places automatically try to put in 5 quarts, which will cause the rear mains to blow out.
That is about all I can remeber. Hope that helps and good luck on the search.
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Actually DejaVu, the 300ZX TT is rated at 300HP with a standard transmission and 280HP with the automatic.
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Just do NOT get a sissy 2+2!
I prefer the 280 ZXs. Smaller and just cooler looking to my eye (or maybe it's 'cause I'm too poor for the 300s.) The turbo 280 doesn't have the dual turbos like the later model 300s do, but it is one big turbo and when it kicked in it felt like JATO. :D Be sure it's a stick and an 82 or 83.
I think the 300ZX comes back in its 3rd incarnation this year or maybe next.
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350 ZX this fall
Get the Track Pack
SKurj
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Skuzzy pretty much covered the list.
One thing, when the clutch is replaced there's a valve in the hydralic line that has to be replaced too. Some places over this and when (not if, when) it goes out your clutch pedal will be on the floor. Makes driving the car really interesting. Not sure if this applies for 93 and later, but it does for 84-92. I had an 84 and learned about this the hard way. Then one day I was looking at a 92, went to test drive it, stepped on the clutch, put it in reverse, and then the car stalled out. Clutch pedal on the floor. Told the guy at the lot he needed to yell at whomever had done the clutch.
And as Skuzzy said, their value goes up over time. IIRC the '96 was the last year model sold in the states.
Now, if you're on a real tight budget the 240sx is worth mentioning. A friend of mine had a '90 240sx and this car was B-A-D. It would hang with the 300s, except the TTs. No, it wasn't stock, but he put it together with less than he would have spent on a 300 (as long as ya don't count his stereo gear :D )
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Quite correct Cavemanj. I knew I would forget something.
The clutch was never an issue for me as I replaced the standard clutch with a dual-plate unit when the car had about 10K miles on it. Also required replacing the clutch slave cylinder and hoses.
I really loved that car and miss it. Hasn't been another car built that comes close to the balance for good handling and excellent ride. The balance was incredible. I loved putting that car into a power drift. It was one of the most composed cars I have ever had the pleasure to drive and I have had my hands on the wheels on some really nice cars (BMW's, MB's, Corvettes, a couple of Ferrari's, and a Viper).
Hated to sell it, but it was time to let it go.
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How about a 911 a perfect cornering machine ?
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911 is a bit heavy in the tail. Raced against some. Fine machines, no doubt about it, but they do favor over-steer and have a tendency to wag the tail a bit in turns. Makes it harder to get a controlled drift, but they hold the line very well for a tail wagger.
The 4 wheel drive Turbo is not to be messed with. It is dang nuetral with a bit of oversteer, but much easier to control than the standard 911. This puppy can launch out of a corner like no ones business.
The standard 911 is a hoot to drive, but not nearly as comfortable as the 300ZX. Keep in mind I am about 6'3" tall. I cannot own a Porsche 911 due to the lack of leg room and head room. The 300ZX has more leg room than I need. Heck with the seat all the way back I can barely reach the throttle.
The 911 drivers always had to puch the brake hard going into turns or the front would push. Once in the line of the turn they could roll on the throttle and lift a bit just coming outta the turn then hit it.
This is where they usually lost. The 300ZX weight balance allowed me to get into turns faster and out of the turns faster. I did not have to hit the brake at all going in with a 911. Just lift the throttle a bit and the Z would just settle into the line nicely. Then roll on the throttle through the turn and punch it just as you were making the last of the turn. Through the turn you would just use the throttle to control the drift and keep it to a minimum. Almost no wheel input was needed to correct the drift.
The 911 needed both throttle and wheel corrections to maintain the line, but is very predictable.
The 911 Turbo 4 wheel drive was another story. Night and day difference between it and the standard 911. They would tear me up every time. I could hold in the straights, but they would pull away in the corners nicely.
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Originally posted by Steven
Just do NOT get a sissy 2+2!
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any 280zx is for sissies.
however the 240z-280z line is all good (except some 260z's) even the 2+2. i had a dog of a 260z 2+2 with those miserable hitachi carbs. also had a 1971 240z and a later '77 fuel injected 280z. 240z was the best by far.
the zx models were way tamed down and fatter and loaded with smog crap. probably the first decent zx was the 300.the just z cars are great though.
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240,mmmmm
GTR oh baby :)
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The 240Z was a landmark car and a pretty decent one.
I knew a girl in high school who got one for her 16th birthday, then totalled it a week later, so mom and dad got her a brand spanking new Shelby GT500. She totalled that one a month later. Then she got a Hemi Cuda, and this time it lasted three days, but she died in the accident.
The 260Z was probably the worst of the Z line. The 280 came a close second. Nissan finally got its act together with the 300, but in a very different way from the original 240.
The 300ZX is a great car. Lots of room for upping the ante in that one. A stiff body structure that could handle so much more engine. When I finally got through tweaking mine, she pegged 423 horsepower at the rear wheels on a dynometer. And she could be driven daily without any troubles. She had 116,233 miles on her when I sold her and was running like new.
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I have read some test the sc 2 made faster rounds on the track than the sc4
so i think this 4 wheel drive sux
a 911 is a steering machine no doubt
just dreaming on while driving my beetle
gonna buy a 912 or a 914 sometime :D
or just put a bigger engine in my beetle
i notice my hvy tail works very fine in short corners (city use)
long corners is another story i found my self doing 180 degrees alot
just love aircooled boxers
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I don't know from magazine tests. All the guys in the club owned thier cars and so they were used to how they handled.
The only requirement in the club was the cars be street legal and be driven to the track. Tires had to be Z-rated street tires on standard manufacturer rims with a minium tread depth of 5/32".
The 911SC Turbo 4 wheel drive car is a monster. It ate everyone for lunch. There were two of them in the club, and they both ran pure stock. My top speed in my car was about the same as thiers, but they would just mop me up in the corners. There was also a 911SC2 in the club and it would do well against most cars, but I could beat him pretty handily.
We had one turn in the track that was a decreasing radius turn that also went from a positive camber to a negative camber. Talk about a wild turn. The 911SC4 would kill everyone in that turn. The 911SC2 would not do well in it. That was usually the turn that would make or break you during a race.
It was a lot of fun. Kinda miss those days now.
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Buy an Imprezza Turbo for £10,000, second hand. Brand new £25,000.
280 BHP, 0-60 in 5.5 secs. 4WD with legendary handling.
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Holden HSV GTS 300
5.7-litre 16-valve fuel-injected C4B V8
300kW @ 6,000 RPM/510Nm @ 4,800 RPM
6 speed manual / 18 in. Bridgestones doing 0-100km in 6 secs
(http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/roadfront.jpg)
Tronsky
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Nice cars. A bit slow for the club though. The average 0-60mph in the club (32 members when I retired from it) was 4.0 seconds.
The quickest (Porsche 911SC4 Turbo) ticked off 3.2 seconds and the slowest was a Porsche 911.
My Z would run 0-60mph at 3.7 seconds. Of course, it was pretty heavily modified. I believe the standard 300ZX TT would click off 0-60mph in just under 5.0 seconds.
It wasn't about the cars or the price of the toys that got me retired. I figured it was time to leave as age has a way of slowing your reflexes down a bit. I still dream of hitting over 200mph though.
I also needed the time to complete a restoration/rebuild of a Ford Daytona Coupe. Been working on that project for a couple of years.
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I also needed the time to complete a restoration/rebuild of a Ford Daytona Coupe. Been working on that project for a couple of years.
If you have some pics of that, I wouldn't mind seeing them. I love to check out virtually any restoration I can find. Shoot me an e-mail at dstaines@teleport.com if you're not too keen on posting the stuff here.
AKDejaVu
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I plan to post pics when they make sense DejaVu. I got a ton of photos and film on this project. I just need to sift through it and pull out the "oops" photos. You know what I mean? The ones where you thought you had a brilliant idea on how to deal with the problem, but in practice it was a boo-boo.
I have the engine working now, and start it periodically, much to the chagrin of my neighbors. It is on the bench stand with open headers.
Unfortunately, it is the pre-side oiler block, so i am trying to convert it. Ford has a lot of information on this car, which has been a big help.
And get this, Ford has a discontinued parts warehouse where all the dealers in the network send discontinued parts to be written off and destroyed. Luckily, there are some softies in that warehouse who cannot bring themselves to destroy some parts. I was able to wangle a brand new set of 427 Lemans heads from them for the engine. While looking through the bins, we found a brand new front sway bar for a 65 Shelby, a Cobra emblem for a 69 Shelby, and the original knockoffs for the wheels of the 65 SC Cobra. I thought I died and went to heaven. :D
I plan on posting the restoration story on a WEB site once it is all done. I probably have another years worth of work to do on it.
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The mistakes are what you learn the most from. Like I said... I'd love to see the pics.
AKDejaVu
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I have to disagree. But it's good we all have differing preferences or else we'd all be wearing the same clothing, driving the same model and color car or flying the same aircraft in Aces High (ala F4U-1C.)
Yeah, the 280ZXs weren't much for handling, but the 82 and 83 turbos were a lot of fun on the street, though had a louzy turbo-lag when stock. 240Z's are fun too and I had a friend who fixed one up very well. I'd pass on a 260Z and a 280Z and the first incarnation of the 300ZX, but I like the 82/83 280ZXs. Stock turbo 280ZXs increased the HP from about 138 to 185; though, I don't know what the torque was off-hand but was good due to the inline engine. Not a lot in today's world, but always worked for me when I was young and stupid. (Wrapped a ZX around a tree during my 21st year...crashed a motorcycle on the street that same year too.) With a little work, that HP (more importantly the torque) could be increased.
My dream is a 240Z/280ZX with a small-block in it. Heh heh.
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Wow - thankyou thankyou for all the info - Skuzzy especially :)
I must admit to prefering the 300ZX and they are soooo cheap for the performance here. The twin turbo manual can be picked up for anywhere from 8 - 10K for a decent one (a similar price to a decent 3000GT - a good freind just bought a 3000GT for 7500 and its mint) - so whats that ..... 11-14K dollars.
Some folks are saying the Skyline or last model Supra are better but for me they don't have the look and they are a lot more money.
I looked on a few 300ZX sites and there look to be a few aftermarket bits available in the states - one appears to be a straight chip change which buys you 85bhp more ???
So I think the search begins .....
Sorry Dowding - I know the Imprezza is a good car and all but well it's just so ......... saloon.
Thanks again guys
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Oh man I wish I had a scanner... I would advise against a 300ZX... of any year. A buddy of mine is a Nissan head - he has owned both the NA and TT versions of the car - has had nothing but trouble with them both. ::pitch coming:: There really IS no substitute afterall... Porsche 951 (AKA 944 Turbo). Best bang for the buck sports car in existance. Easily modified, best handeling car on the planet (Or at least so said Car and Driver) :P
Porsche 951 (944 Turbo)
Black/Black 286 HP, 305 Ft/Lbs
2.5 Liter turbocharged slant 4
2750 lbs wet
48/62 Distribution
Top speed 173 MPH
0-60 5.1 sec
Car is obviously "tweeked" but it was all done at a minimum of cost, and Im no mechanic - easy work. The numbers on paper are "moderately impressive" but if you can find one in your local paper (I recommend anything after the first year of the Turbo, 86) go take it for a spin... 60-100 times are more impressive than 0-60 and the car has so much mid and high range grunt that passing other motorists besomes almost addictive. In trouble? The brakes are unreal. If you like drivers cars - this is one of the best. Only downside to the car is the clutch... very expensive to replace - or very difficult and time consuming if you have the ability to do it yourself. Either way good luck.
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Well, I put over 100,000 hard miles on mine, had it for 10 years and never had a problem. I know several others who would say the same.
On the other hand, I did know a few 944 owners. They seem to have problems with the rear brake springs breaking on them. That could have been an issue with a particular year model too. I do not recal the year models those guys had. They were not part of the club, just some regular guys I used to work with.
Oh, when I say I did not have a problem. I mean, other than regular maintenance (oil, plugs, brakes), there were no issues with my ZX. I busted over 190 in it after it rolled over 100,000 miles and it still never burned a drop of oil. The interor of the car looked brand new when I sold it.
You do have to pay attention more to the ZX than other cars, simply because of the turbos. Driven right and taken care of it is a good car. Mine was a 91 (the new style) model TT.
Oh Sparks, I did forget to say: On the spark plugs. Do not attempt to change them yourself, and only allow an authorized Nissan dealer do it. The plugs each have a separate coil attached directly to the plug. The harness for the coils is very stiff and can be cracked, which will cause all sorts of voltage leaks.
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Originally posted by mrfish
any 280zx is for sissies.
however the 240z-280z line is all good (except some 260z's) even the 2+2. i had a dog of a 260z 2+2 with those miserable hitachi carbs. also had a 1971 240z and a later '77 fuel injected 280z. 240z was the best by far.
the zx models were way tamed down and fatter and loaded with smog crap. probably the first decent zx was the 300.the just z cars are great though.
The 240Z kicked ass. I had a 1963 Austin Healey 3000 back in 1972 I bought for 700 dollars that had a broke motor. Rebuilt it, used that car as my daily driver and ran across a 240Z once on a road trip to Lake Berryessa that absolutely blew my doors off. Made me realize what an antique I was driving, but man that car was fun.