Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: easymo on March 26, 2002, 01:11:39 AM
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The for the kids thread has turned into a rousing flame fest. Not wanting to interfere with any ones fun. I started a new one. That thread raised a question in my mind.
If they isolated the "gay gene". And genetic engineering made it possible to detect and remove before birth. Would you as an expectant parent have it removed?
I don't like to mess with mother nature. I am not smart enough. So I would let nature take what ever direction it chose.
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That's gotta be the gayest question I ever did hear.
BTW, you bear a strange resemblance to NEWU7856, or was it NEWU883? hmmm... :)
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Newuwho?
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tough question.
i've known a bunch of gay people and they seem all screwed up physically and emotionally.
it seems really natural though for nature to throw in a mechanism that helps prevent overpopulation which is, i imagine what homosexuality might be.
i think it's confusing though because some people do choose to be gay. you're opinion on gays is likely to mirror the type you've seen most:
folks who felt gay from day one or the kind that couldn't score with girls and wanted to piss off thier parents or mirror some fad. there isn't just one type.
i just don't think we know of a way to feel comfortable including them in the scheme of things yet.
it's like nature intended for them to be an abberation but it intended them nonetheless. i'd leave the gene be.
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remove it hell, they'd be selling it at Boy Scout camps and girl basketball games ....
most gays I know or have met seem very "proud" they are queer
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Really?
Here in Sweden they seem to scatter along the walls... Oh, there are the usual bunch who lives on the media hype, you know, artists and stuff, but that is only a handful. It is very rare to see gays displaying affection in public here. In fact, I have only seen it once, 2 guys holding hands.
On the other hand, I suppose it's understandable.
When I was in the military we found out that one of the guys was gay. I'm not sure why he decided to out when he was in teh army of all places... That poor guy, it wasnt all that pretty...he left the service the next week.
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No
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:::chuckles::: Personally, I'd prefer isolating and elminating the bigoted idiot gene in children if we're going to go about tinkering with human genetics.
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I'm with gordo. Traits that make people want to force their viewpoint on others or try to shame them into thinking their way should be eliminated via genetics. :)
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I wouldn't feel right about fiddling with my kid's genes.
I have a hunch that responses will fall along the same lines as abortion; ie, those who are pro abortion will tend to be pro gene manipulation, and vice versa.
Hey, maybe I've got an anti-gene manipulation gene :confused:
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I have to agree with what lance said. I'd also be more interested in removing genes that cause disease.
Oh, there are the usual bunch who lives on the media hype, you know, artists and stuff
Hey! What are you trying say?? :p
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Originally posted by Gunthr
I wouldn't feel right about fiddling with my kid's genes.
I have a hunch that responses will fall along the same lines as abortion; ie, those who are pro abortion will tend to be pro gene manipulation, and vice versa.
Hey, maybe I've got an anti-gene manipulation gene :confused:
Really ?
How about this:
your kid will be born with some sort of incurable sickness which will make it suffer for 10 years and then more then likely it will die.
You can fix it by changing 1 gene.
What do you do, hotshot ?
:D
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No.
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Hi fd ski.
Why do you call me "hot shot?" Serious question.
In your example, I would definately get that gene fixed to save my child's life.
One problem I had with the gay gene thing, which I didn't mention earlier, is that I think its not very likely that there exists a single, discreet gene that determines sexual orientation. (I admit this is just a gut feeling)
Sexual orientation is pretty central to who a person is. I wouldn't want to interfere with that, even if I could.
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No, I wouldnt change it.
Gay is not an illness. Hell it isnt even an unnatural anomally.
I am also very much with Lance on this one. Maybe if we single out those tolerance genes, this stupid question wont even be asked in the future.
Whats next? isolating the jew and gypsy genes?
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Actually, this prompted me to contemplate my laundry list of gene manipulation improvements I would like to see parent's implement so as to promote my vision of Utopia. Those of you planning families, I urge you to use this when you get the chance to pick your kids traits at your local family planning agency at some future point.
Females:
#1) Positively nudge their tit gene. No explanation necessary.
#2) Turn on the bi-curious-but-still-heterosexual gene. Another no-brainer.
#3) Turn off the PMS gene. This is obviously an example of where nature or God went wrong.
#4) Turn on the reasons-like-a-man gene. Churchill described Russian actions as "a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma." He could have easily been talking about women.
#5) Turn off the every-woman-is-my-sister gene. Is it really necessary for them to side with their casual aquaintences on every issue no matter how screwy?
#6) Turn on the thinks-beer-guts-are-sexy and the likes-to-clean-up-after-a-lazy-slob gene. Okay, so these two are a little self-serving, but shouldn't I get a perk for putting forth the effort to help you all choose the best future possible for your children?
Males:
#1) Turn on their homosexual gene. This is really Animal's only hope of ever getting laid.
#2) Severely downtweek their endurance, speed and strength genes. I could dominate recreational sports leagues until I am 95!
#3) Turn on their liberal democrat gene and clone a new Bill Clinton every 40 years or so. An eternity of uninterupted Clinton years! Think of the entertainment possibilities in this forum alone!
Disclaimer: This post was made in jest. The author cannot be held liable if you pursue genetic manipulation for your children and Junior winds up being a four-assed monkey.
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Great question. I only have one child, a daughter almost 17 (and no, hblalr, you can't see her tits) and I hope to have grandchildren some day, so for purely selfish reasons if it was that simple then the answer is yes.
I had a gay cousin and it was obvious from the time he was a little boy he was "different," and watching him grow up with the stigma of being gay, with the rejection from his parents and his peers was sad. I really feel like he couldn't help his sexuality because he was born that way before any of us even realized what sexuality was.
He died from AIDS about five years ago, and up to the very end of his life his Dad couldn't accept him as his son. So yeah, I wouldn't wish his life an anybody. Had he been straight he would have had less conflict and stress and would have lived a happier life.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
No
I know you too well Geoff. You'd genetically modify yourself but not your children?
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Originally posted by Lance
Actually, this prompted me to contemplate my laundry list of gene manipulation improvements I would like to see parent's implement so as to promote my vision of Utopia. Those of you planning families, I urge you to use this when you get the chance to pick your kids traits at your local family planning agency at some future point.
Females:
#1) Positively nudge their tit gene. No explanation necessary.
#2) Turn on the bi-curious-but-still-heterosexual gene. Another no-brainer.
#3) Turn off the PMS gene. This is obviously an example of where nature or God went wrong.
#4) Turn on the reasons-like-a-man gene. Churchill described Russian actions as "a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma." He could have easily been talking about women.
#5) Turn off the every-woman-is-my-sister gene. Is it really necessary for them to side with their casual aquaintences on every issue no matter how screwy?
#6) Turn on the thinks-beer-guts-are-sexy and the likes-to-clean-up-after-a-lazy-slob gene. Okay, so these two are a little self-serving, but shouldn't I get a perk for putting forth the effort to help you all choose the best future possible for your children?
Males:
#1) Turn on their homosexual gene. This is really Animal's only hope of ever getting laid.
#2) Severely downtweek their endurance, speed and strength genes. I could dominate recreational sports leagues until I am 95!
#3) Turn on their liberal democrat gene and clone a new Bill Clinton every 40 years or so. An eternity of uninterupted Clinton years! Think of the entertainment possibilities in this forum alone!
Disclaimer: This post was made in jest. The author cannot be held liable if you pursue genetic manipulation for your children and Junior winds up being a four-assed monkey.
LOL great ideas, Lance- I'm with you on this one. It's too bad you have to add your disclaimer....maybe some of us need manipulation of our humor gene.
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How about disabling the "MA strategy general" gene?;)
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Gunthr, i was just practicing my Keanu Reeves quotes :D
Here is a follow up question:
Let's say we're 100 years from now, and whole society is "modifying" their children to be cuter/healthier/smarter ( and you know they will, easiest option out always wins out )
Now, you're going to have a baby. If you do not go with the flow, it is 99.99% guaranteed that it will :
- be ugly by the standard norm ( which is generically modified perfection )
- be less inteligent, hince less capable of holding a job or even getting one.
- generaly sentenced for a life of inferiority in every sence.
What then ?
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Some of the most successful people in the world can attribute their success to the difficulties they had to overcome. Your kid may do better if you give him the short-bad eyesight-nerd gene.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Some of the most successful people in the world can attribute their success to the difficulties they had to overcome. Your kid may do better if you give him the short-bad eyesight-nerd gene.
yup! how do you learn otherwise?
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In any case...I don't believe being "gay" is atributed to genes. It's a matter of personal choice. Honestly...there is nothing set in stone on whether or not someone is gay or lesbian...it's a matter of choice on the person. I know someone who was straight until she was assaulted by someone in 6th grade. She developed a fear of males and leaned toward being bi. One of her friends forced herself on her, and she offered no resistance. In another case...she was already engaged to another female who was attempting to get permission to take her to Utah for obvious reasons.
See? There's not nessecarily a "gene" that says you're gay, just a matter of choice. That could be brought on by fear, rebellion, curiosity, etc. You don't know. :D
BTW...the person in question is my fiancée...:D I basically stepped in and saved her...but that's another story...;) :D
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homosexuality = insanity
You gotta be crazy to be turned on by another man's hairy azz..
thank god for women (excluding my ex wife of course) !!!!!
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Not taking a position in either way on the question at the start of the thread. I do have another question about it.
On the basis of natural selection and evolution, isn't homosexuality a genetic dead end? I suppose you could argue that in practicing strictly as a homosexual you wouldn't be passing on your genes. This is, of course, without the reliance of scientific practices for artificial insemination etc. to remedy the situation in regards to a natural conception.
Again I am not taking a position on right vs wrong or whatever, this thought just occured to me as I started reading the thread.
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So what you're saying Maverick is that you believe either natural selection or homosexuality being passed thru genes has to be incorrect? And you are also saying that all the bums replying above are all full of crap? Do I understand you correctly? What a lame post!!
Interesting thought though. (I just said it was interesting, didn't give my opinion) :)
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Here is a follow up question:
Let's say we're 100 years from now, and whole society is "modifying" their children to be cuter/healthier/smarter ( and you know they will, easiest option out always wins out )
Now, you're going to have a baby. If you do not go with the flow, it is 99.99% guaranteed that it will :
- be ugly by the standard norm ( which is generically modified perfection )
- be less inteligent, hince less capable of holding a job or even getting one.
- generaly sentenced for a life of inferiority in every sence.
What then ?
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This is a different set of parameters.
It isn't set in stone that human bio-ethics will proceed to that conclusion, though I'll grant you the temptation would be strong in some sectors to "engineer" human beings if the technology will allow it. ( One problem that would be created all over the world for example, is that manipulating genes that way would trash the concept that "all men are created equal") Wars have been fought over for less.
Beyond the ethics of it, it could really be hazardous to the human species to short circuit what is thought of as "evolution" by changing genes around. Who knows?
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What about isolating the racist redneck gene?..
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You aren't a racist if you don't like gays.
You can be labelled a "bigot", but as far as I know, being gay doesn't make you part of a gay race.
And if it does, why don't they all go start their own gay lil' island where they can all be accepted and love each other?
I don't see why anyone should be told, or forced, to accept gays.
It's definitely not normal, seems some people think it should be... for whatever reason.
-SW
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We already do all we can to give our children a head start in life anyway. My wife didn't drink alcohol or caffiene while she carried my daughter, she ate as healthy as she could, I read to her while she was still in the womb and continued reading to her the day after her birth, and all THAT was done to have a healthy, as close to as perfect baby as we could get. As we learn more about child development we seem to do more to develop perfect babies, so if the option of a simple procedure to correct genetic "flaws" becomes available 100 years from now then I would imagine most of us would take advantage of it.
We're already at the point where we can alter our bad genetics with things like corrective RK eye surgery and cosmetic surgery, and among the more popular health food supplements are "brain power" aids, sexual aids and body building aids. I think it's natural to want to look, feel and be as good as is possible, and if that's what we want for ourselves it's logical we'd want that for our children even more.
I don't know alot about genetics, but I know recessive genes cause blindness and retardation in humans that can be passed on from one generation to the next, and I've seen baby trout with two heads and obviously no hope of ever reproducing, so I can see where homosexuality can be passed on genetically upon occasion. I have a tough time with the "personal choice" viewpoint regarding homosexuality because what man could conciously make a choice to engage in homosexual acts?
I, myself, am gay- I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
[. "As we learn more about child development we seem to do more to develop perfect babies, so if the option of a simple procedure to correct genetic "flaws" becomes available 100 years from now then I would imagine most of us would take advantage of it."
I'll go you one better..Now that we have cloning technology,why don't we find some DNA of Dr Mengele and clone him.He would be the best person for this research into "Genetic flaws" such as homosexuality.
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Mav,
There are many recessive genetic traits that continue to be present inthe population despite their tendency to preclude procreation. Tay-Sachs disease is just one example, and I posted a link to a site discussing that on the other thread.
As to the choice - birth question. This just seems obvious to me. Did any of you make a choice as to your sexual orientation? Doesn't matter what that orientation is, just did you choose it, or did it just come naturally to you?
another question, why would the percentage of gays in the general population remain constant if it were a choice? Wouldn't this number fluctuate significantly with the popularity / persecution of gays?
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Homosexuality is choice. Ever seen a gay monkey? I mean, we did evolve from the ape...right?:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
[. "As we learn more about child development we seem to do more to develop perfect babies, so if the option of a simple procedure to correct genetic "flaws" becomes available 100 years from now then I would imagine most of us would take advantage of it."
I'll go you one better..Now that we have cloning technology,why don't we find some DNA of Dr Mengele and clone him.He would be the best person for this research into "Genetic flaws" such as homosexuality. [/B]
I was refering to genetic flaws such as blindness, retardation, hell, even big ears or ugly noses, Sir Lion. It didn't occur to me I was making a statement about homosexuality being a "flaw."
My opposition to my own child being gay, besides the selfish aspect of wanting grandchildren, is the stigma society today places on gay people. Obviously, though, I'm like every other parent- the main thing I want for my child is for her to be a happy, well-adjusted adult. If that means she's gay then I guess I'd just have to deal with it.
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You aren't a racist if you don't like gays.
You can be labelled a "bigot", but as far as I know, being gay doesn't make you part of a gay race.
And if it does, why don't they all go start their own gay lil' island where they can all be accepted and love each other?
I don't see why anyone should be told, or forced, to accept gays.
It's definitely not normal, seems some people think it should be... for whatever reason.
-SW
The peter puffing toejam packers have the right to be queers if they like, just don't expect acceptance from this bigot. :p
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Originally posted by Apache
Homosexuality is choice. Ever seen a gay monkey? I mean, we did evolve from the ape...right?:rolleyes:
Completely incorrect.
"Animals show homosexual behaviour
Some three hundred animal species are found to show same-gender love making
Dr Bruce Bagemihl, a Seattle-based biologist, has spent the last decade investigating homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom reports the London Sunday Times.
His detailed survey has indicated that homosexual behaviour may be as natural as heterosexual behaviour.
The study has lead him to believe that not all animal behaviour revolves around procreation. He was quoted by the paper as saying, "Animal homosexuality is a rich and multi-faceted phenomenon that is at least as complex and varied as heterosexuality - the lives of gay animals are far more diverse than we would ever have imagined.,"
The American biologist explained that some animals appear to be predisposed towards homosexuality and give the example of male bottlenose dolphins who pair off with other males during their youth. They never bond with a female even after mating.
Another species he cites are male humboldt penguins who sometimes form life-long homosexual relationships. They remain monogamous until one of the partners die.
Dr Bagemihl's study has yielded other examples such as king penguins who prefer same-sex mates even when unpaired birds of the opposite sex are available.
Examples from primates include the bonobo chimps who are generally promiscuous with partners of either sex.
He also cites an example of lesbian behaviour among grizzly bears who sometimes bond with each other raising cubs as a family."
You might want to do a bit research before making statements like that.
"I don't see why anyone should be told, or forced, to accept gays."
Or blacks, orientals, jews, handicapped people, etc. for that matter.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Apache
Homosexuality is choice. Ever seen a gay monkey? I mean, we did evolve from the ape...right?:rolleyes:
Apache.....puuleeeze take that foot out of your mouth!
Gay Monkeys..."actually apes but you get the point" (http://www.hurricane.net/~wizard/0048.html) and here is another...For the FDB's (http://www.dazyne.com/rick/bo-peeps-gay-sheep.htm)
BTW, we didn't evolve from the ape, we have a common ancestor with the ape. Big difference.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Apache.....puuleeeze take that foot out of your mouth!
Gay Monkeys..."actually apes but you get the point" (http://www.hurricane.net/~wizard/0048.html) and here is another...For the FDB's (http://www.dazyne.com/rick/bo-peeps-gay-sheep.htm)
BTW, we didn't evolve from the ape, we have a common ancestor with the ape. Big difference.
Is it really necessary you lead in with a personal remark? If we are to enter into debate, so be it, however your remark aimed to embarrass me is not needed.
As to my post, my attempt at humor was not well founded.
Your need to educate me on basic theory, evolutionary biology or creationism, for that matter, is unnecessary.
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Considering that the rational reason to have childen is having grandchildren (wether you subscribe to evolved procreation instinct or God's directive to procreate), that would be an automatic "yes".
Of course many people would name other reasons to have children - like caring, companionship, seeing smiles, etc. - all valid, but I personally do not accept those reasons in which you can replace "child" with "pet".
Homosexuality could not evolve as darvinian adaptation. It may be a result of a particular combination of a few other genes - such things are common.
A gene protecting from malaria will cause sickle cell anemia if it is homosygous.
miko
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Originally posted by Apache
Is it really necessary you lead in with a personal remark? If we are to enter into debate, so be it, however your remark aimed to embarrass me is not needed.
As to my post, my attempt at humor was not well founded.
Your need to educate me on basic theory, evolutionary biology or creationism, for that matter, is unnecessary.
You are absolutely correct. My apologies.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You are absolutely correct. My apologies.
Apology most humbly accepted.
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But dammit....did anyone see the "Gay Sheep" page?
an excerpt: THE TRUTH ABOUT GAY SHEEP:
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I found this in the alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic newsgroup. I don't make a habit of hangin out there, you understand, I just "happened" to be reading posts and accidently found myself there.
GAY SHEEP COME OUT OF THE CLOSET
by Rex Wockner, 11/22/89
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Eight percent of the male sheep at the United States Department of Agriculture's Sheep Experimental Station in Dubois, Idaho, are gay, officials confirmed in late November.
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I wish the FDBs would share those gay sheep....
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And if it does, why don't they all go start their own gay lil' island where they can all be accepted and love each other?
:::chuckles::: And I don't like pimply-faced youngins who can't yet buy themselves a beer. Your island is ----> thataway:D
Such is the problem with all of this. Who is it that gets to decide who or what is acceptable? Whether being gay is a choice or genetic is completely irrelevant. There are a few people posting in these various gay threads that are satisfied in making a negative judgement about gays based solely upon a single trait that they share as opposed to their merit as individuals. While that is perfectly within those people's rights, it does make them bigots.
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Originally posted by Lance
:::chuckles::: And I don't like pimply-faced youngins who can't yet buy themselves a beer. Your island is ----> thataway:D
In a month I can buy beer.... legally.
But I've been capable of getting my own beer for a good 3 years now. :)
-SW
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Mav,
There are many recessive genetic traits that continue to be present inthe population despite their tendency to preclude procreation. Tay-Sachs disease is just one example, and I posted a link to a site discussing that on the other thread.
As to the choice - birth question. This just seems obvious to me. Did any of you make a choice as to your sexual orientation? Doesn't matter what that orientation is, just did you choose it, or did it just come naturally to you?
another question, why would the percentage of gays in the general population remain constant if it were a choice? Wouldn't this number fluctuate significantly with the popularity / persecution of gays?
Target,
None of these points you raise have anything to do with my post. You must have me confused with another posting person.
PS I do know about birth defects, from personal experiance. One was surgically corrected, the other I live with.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Not taking a position in either way on the question at the start of the thread. I do have another question about it.
On the basis of natural selection and evolution, isn't homosexuality a genetic dead end? I suppose you could argue that in practicing strictly as a homosexual you wouldn't be passing on your genes. This is, of course, without the reliance of scientific practices for artificial insemination etc. to remedy the situation in regards to a natural conception.
Again I am not taking a position on right vs wrong or whatever, this thought just occured to me as I started reading the thread.
My post is in response to your "genetic dead end" question.
The rest is just other observations, and not directed at you. Sorry for the confusion.
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My brother is gay. Luckily, he's not the kind that's lisping like crazy, wagging around like a girl or, in short, a flamer. You wouldn't know unless he told you.
(My first hint that he was...hmm....had to be that Madonna Fan Club he started when he was 16, complete with the 'Desperately Seeking Susan' jacket and all. LOL )
All thoughts that he might turn straight vanished, as he lived with 4 gorgeous models (seen em, had to hide a boner the whole f**king time)....and they were showing off belly and nipple rings. He lived through that gay, there's no hope... :eek:
Gay Gene? Doubt there is one. Gay people are as varied as straight people, I'm finding. For every strange queer, I can round up 10 emotionally kooked straight people.
Wanna cure something? Kill that "White Power" gene. It should be right next to the "small noodle" enzyme :)
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Why is this still a question? I think all the answers I have have been covered by Lance, Animal etc. Just cos someone isn't like you doesnt make them bad.
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Hey LePaul, interesting life experience there. I was wondering how your parents felt about your brother's orientation.
I'm close to a gay man I work with. I can't not like or not care for the dude. He actually took care of me for weeks after I got out of a lengthy hospital stay with a broken back, and I couldn't get out of bed. I was fairly new in Florida and lived alone at the time and didn't have many friends outside work. I've known him and worked with him for 20 years now. He has a gay significant other, who is just a bit swishy. They own a house together. His parents appear to be totally accepting of him. You wouldn't pick up on him being gay either, except after knowing him for a while.
We don't talk about him being gay. Funny huh? I don't socialize with him much, tho we used to do a lot of flying together. He still has his 182. Occasionally, at work I'll razz him and go into graphic detail about cunnilingus or analingus and how I would perform it on a given hot chick - just to watch him squirm. Its funny. :D He knows I know he knows... and we just leave it at that. He's a good guy. He's a conservative Republican, too.
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Originally posted by Animal
No, I wouldnt change it.
Gay is not an illness. Hell it isnt even an unnatural anomally.
I am also very much with Lance on this one. Maybe if we single out those tolerance genes, this stupid question wont even be asked in the future.
Whats next? isolating the jew and gypsy genes?
Tolernce is taught..not inherited/passed on. Its often a direct reflection socio-economic levels as well.
xBAT
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I think all men should be gay, except me.
I also think all women should be extremely dedicated to having sex with men.
Lastly, I think it would be a good idea if they knew I was the only non gay man alive, and that they knew my phone number.
That's what I think.
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Hey Gunthr
Well, my folks had a rough ride with my brother announcing he was gay. My Dad, assistant principal of the high school we both went to, and Lt Col in the Air National Guard, didn't take it very well. I lot of what happened back then, I was out of the loop. I recall they did the counselling thing and such, trying to work it out among the 3 of them.
I think hate crimes making the news really unnerves my parents, such as the kid left to die tied to that fence a year or so ago, etc. Like all good parents, they worry. More so now.
What I see now is my folks really bending over backwards to be accepting of him, because I think their intial reaction sent him the wrong signals.
And as a sibling, it sorta annoys me....but, he's the baby of the family and if you are the oldest in your family, you know how that all works and such ;)
Interesting that he is a conservative republican, but then again, so am i....even though there are some issues I think differently on (abortion, etc)
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And as a sibling, it sorta annoys me....but, he's the baby of the family and if you are the oldest in your family, you know how that all works and such
I sure do LePaul. I'm the oldest of 8 kids. I have 5 mischevious younger brothers, and two younger sisters. I've taken whuppings for every single one of them. The way the youngest was treated, you'd think we had different parents.
I also guess that its no fun having your horizons expanded by force via having a gay sibling. I'm sure it would entail some adjustment, depending on your age at the time he realized his sexuality.
As a parent with considerable life experience, I know that I would love my child no matter what sexual orientation they are.
Thanks
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Gunthr, what if your child turns out to be a LW pilot, with pink leather g-string, metal studs on inside?
:D
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What causes young boys to turn gay depends on how they're reared.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
What causes young boys to turn gay depends on how they're reared.
*cast* *cast* *cast*
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StSanta,
I could not reject a child that has sprung from my own pink-leathered loins :p