Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Beegerite on May 28, 2000, 02:07:00 AM
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In the thread "I hope we'll never have an EZ mode" I saw the following post by Pyro which contained some very disturbing verbage which IMHO "could" indicate a shift away from the direction indicated on their home page which is also quoted below.
The issue was something called EZ-Mode which I'm against primarily because as was posted elsewhere I know squat about this issue, but as was also posted in that thread, it will cause suspicion and tension if mixed in the same arena. The problem really isn't EZ-Mode or any other programming issue. The problem for me is what does this shift in company phylosophy mean to us as customers?
The quote from Pyro;
We don't know what we're going to do in terms of an "easy mode". We will be doing more in that area, we're throwing money away if we don't. These types of games don't survive on old-timers alone. You need a constant supply of fresh bodies coming in to keep things going. Some people talk about this like it's a bad thing when it certainly isn't. A bad thing is not getting enough players into the game. Just because you or I took our lumps and persevered through difficult learning curves doesn't mean the average player can or will.
and taken from their own pages, what appears to be their original philosophy......
HiTech Creations was founded with a simple philosophy by Dale "HiTech" Addink in 1999. It's not to create a large corporation, a vast gaming network, or a line of online games. It's just to create one game, but one that is better than any other like it. Contrary to most companies, our goal is to keep the company small. We know that with a singular focus and an experienced cohesive team that enjoys its work, the production, service, support, and overall level of satisfaction will be unmatched.
The original philosophy is what attracted me away from my old sim. After a year of flying the old sim I was totally turned off by what appeared to be a total disregard for their customer base. I came to AH more than willing to pay 3X as much because of what I read into the statement immediately preceeding and what I saw in the involvement of the management in the rooms themselves. Now, from that post and a couple of others from Pyro in the subject thread, it's quite evident that there's trouble on the home front. The money monster has reared his ugly head enough for Pyro to publicly state
"These types of games don't survive on old-timers alone"
(I think a lot of good loyal customers would be taking exception to this statement)
Needless to say, it's their company and they can do whatever they want but I would sure like to know if my $30.00 a month investment isn't going to be negated by suddenly finding that business concerns have forced them to water down AH to a degree where it becomes the same kind of sim that I could get for 1/3 the money.
My suggestion would be that if things are tough then stick to your vision to keep it pure and good and if necessary go for the masses with $9.95/month pricing. Yeah!, I know you said that would never happen but as you can see above, things do change.
Hope things work out.
Beeg
Beeg
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Thats why I started that thread, Beegerite.
I'm sincerely worried. I'm worried for the "Late War Monsters Rush" as well. Time will tell what is better for us. So far I like AH.
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It's too soon to be raising the alarm on this issue. If something does happen along the lines (not exact implementation, mind you), I suggest we take a look at how it's structured and then cry foul if we don't like it.
I'll bet the Navy will come along before anything's done on this so keep happy with the game as long as it's good for you (as it is with me) until Pyro posts something ALOT more specific.
-sudz-
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I'm not an ez-mode fan. I think if we had an ez-mode that would be another excuse taken away from me as to why I suck (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But possibly what they are talking about are more features like the auto-takeoff mode and the like. I don't think any FM sacrifices would be made by these guys.
The vision might not call for a large corporation, but it does call for putting food on the table, and I'm for anything that will improve HTC's bottom line as long as it doen't affect my fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If you read any of my posts, on that thread. you know im not crazy about the idea of mixing it into the main arena. But as far as vision is concerned. You only have to look at the numbers to see we are not growing our fighter pilot ranks in leaps and bounds. This is a business. and they may have to adapt. I would just say, if thay handle this wrong, they might be throwing the baby out with the wash.
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I think exactly as Gatt!
mixed reality & mixed era planes in the same arena...will produce a general escape toward other morer serious flying simulations, included me..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) !
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Just advise 12 y.o. newbies which planes are close to EZ mode.
Spit V and surely Zeke will be closest you can get to EZ mode. It already feels like 2 different sims (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If they want to try the Typhoon, let them work for it.
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(http://saintaw.tripod.com/hristo.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 05-28-2000).]
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When I started playing WB around 4-5 years ago I jumped in at the deep end and started and learned in full realism.
BUT
I do not expect new players and more importantly new players to flight-sims to jump in at the deep end and have to learn to fly. I had already been playing flight-sims for quite some years before I stumbled across WB (started on a ZX Spectrum)
I hope that HTC will make a relaxed realism arena but with a view to strongly encouraging those players to come to the full realism arena with trainers frequenting the relaxed arena helping these new players learn to fly. I don't think allowing relaxed setting players into the main arena would be a good idea, just go to AGW and look at the fall-out over relaxed realism there. Also while you are there take a look and think about what you are saying, this BB is starting to mirror AGW with elitist posts declaring EZ mode players as almost being worthless, I think both communities would do well to consider that these players are also contributing finacially to the up-keep of HTC and iEN and should not be reviled in such a manner. WW2OL is on the horizon and could take quite a few players away from both WB and AH and so alienating fresh blood into the community would be a very silly move indeed and thats why I agree with Pyro that some kind of EZ mode does need serious consideration.
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Heh, the Spit V....
Met a newbie V yesterdayday. Came in with some alt as he was low after fighting another guy and shooting him down on a HO. I circle him, but my alt isn't that much greater. Nose up. lots of tracers around my distance. Curious, I dip my wing to check distance: 1.1. Get pinged a few times, but no worries.
I go in, and that monster V someone comes out of a stall and three seconds later go into another loop. Seeing a forced HO, I pull back a litle and go into a lazy turn. OPING PING PING D1.3. Oh, just those .303's no biggie. I go in again. Forced HO again, so I fake it. He hits the deck and starts running, only to reverse for the Ho ten seconds later. Again I pull up.
This went on for some three minutes with multiple passes and I was LOL'ing all the time -was just *too* much. Took me a while to bleed him outta E and alt, especially since that V can do loops from very low peeds. Eventually he was shot down.
We got some aircraft which newbies can get a respectable K/D rate of 0.5 in, at the very least. That's one of the great things about this sim; you advance upwards towards the more difficult planes as your experiene increases. A natural and intelligent way of solving the newbie issue, I think.
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
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I think they're aiming the wrong way as did WarBirds. Who wants to pay $30 a month to play an Air Warrior Relaxed Realism with less planes?
I don't think it DOES make business strength to relax FMs in any way - it's suicidal for boxed sims (eg Gunship, Fighter Squadron) and so for $30 a month it just doesn't seem right to me. Personally I'll put up with skewed FMs online if the game is boxed or free and still fun, but I'd never pay $30 a month for it. Just wondering - who would HTC be trying to target with this scheme?
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Hristo and StSanta,
good POV's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Spit MkVb, Zeke and probably C.202 are already EZ-Mode. Uhmmm, the more I think the more I like it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
During our training we always warn our new squaddies about sudden pull-up of low flying Spitfires ... I like to kill Spitfires.
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Hristo it's called "wing loading". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
Hristo it's called "wing loading". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
whatever, funked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Spit IX, V and C202 are forgiving planes, fun to fly and easy to learn. They dont have serious vices (maybe spit's torque in takeoff but we already have an easy-takeoff-mode isnt it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
If EZ mode makes it to the MA I will be done in AH. I dont mind if they put a relaxed realism one, but If I have to mess with flybywire autotrimming UFO Cannonhawgs, or G10s, or whatever, then I'm done.
I already suck in my fw190, I wont put myself in EZ mode. And so I wont pay 30$ with people with UFOs. Sorry but I dont pay for cheater's enjoy.
Put em in a RR arena. do whatever. but dont mix me with EZmode enemies because I'll be gone.
As easy as that.
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Isn't the real question here:How does HTC attract new players?
I have a feeling we can trust HTC to find a way to increase players. I think the current community can trust that HTC will not distroy the current sim in order to increase customers!!
I think mixing "vet pilots" and EZ-mode pilots is an interesting idea. Ah, but how?
In AW there are seperate areans. Not that many ppl cross over to FR from RR. Keeping all types of players in one arena is a good idea. Keeps the "community" as one!!
Ah, but how?? Pyro, heheee,that's why you get paid the big bucks!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Good luck in your quest!!
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If Pyro has a vision for an arcade type setting within AH and it doesnt require the reduction of real physic/combat realism within the so called-"main arena," I dont have a problem with it.
I dont personally feel its a little too early to voice a concern over this issue. I fly here because its the best Ive played and the best pilots Ive flown against, in any online sim.
Give us a full real arena where oh say, 60 to 80 of us can go and play and you can make all the money you want with the arcade arenas.
After all, fresh new pilots are always welcomed. hehee
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/jag1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 05-28-2000).]
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This is a storm in a non exsisting glas of water.
If EZ mode is implemented so newbies can get in the game gradually, but where veterans can harvest on their experience everyone can be happy.
If problems occur down the road things will most likely be corrected.
This is a matter of play balance\customer satisfaction, an area HTC has shown noumerous times is high up on their agenda.
Point is it can be good, and it can be bad - noone knows before its here.
danish
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Thanks all for the feedback. PLEASE, let's not waterdown the other thread on EZ mode or other specifics in here. My intent in posting this separate is to make sure that all the customers are aware of what the management is saying so that they can get legitimate constructive feedback on how we perceive any changes to the original vision which drew us to AH. I personally want FULL REALISM with a FM that responds exactly how a real airplane would. Based on substantial real flight experience, we're not there yet! However, I was hoping that we would continue in that direction. The subject posts say to me that I need to be concerned that money needs are making them consider going the other way. The question for this thread is basically if HTC is changing horses in mid-stream, which is perfectly within their rights, should I stick around at $30/month while the FM moves further away from what I want. I believe that as loyal customers, we owe it to HTC to tell them what we like and don't like. I personally don't like the tone of Pyro's posts. I feel betrayed! Evidently many others feel the same way as I experienced last night when HT came into the arena and was met with a wall of silence that you could cut with a knife.
We need to tell them now while the idea is just that. Should we not vote with our fingers it may become necessary to vote with our feet and we would then lose an extremely good flight sim.
Beeg
P.S. Want to go for the masses? Then give us $9.95/month and separate FM arenas like FA. I personally know that the 90% of my former squad that didn't come over did so because of the 3X pricing which they just couldn't justify.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Originally posted by danish:
Point is it can be good, and it can be bad - noone knows before its here.
danish
Agreed, danish...but I must make clear what roads I wont follow. And one I wont do, at all, is a mixed EZmode-Realmode arena. And I wont give it a try. If newbies want to fly EZ, they can have an EZ arena. But please dont touch the MA Real mode, or I'm gone.
I even ask myself if the EZmode wont be kind of BAD for newbies. Look, we have a Training Corps here, we have a wonderful community that always help newbies...and I've been in the newbie side not too long ago. I dont see how an EZmode could've helped me...in fact I think it could have DAMAGED my progress. If I fly with some tactics that work in EZ,but not in RM, then if I take the step and go into RM ,then I'll be lost.
I climbed the mountain and I can say it wasnt easy...but sure it was fun to learn. Now I'm not anything but an low-average pilot here, but I have fun and I come for more. I am deeply hooked in AH, and I think that I got hooked when I was learning...it was SO fun and SO rewarding to learn how to fight Monster-aces as Torque, Hangtime, Fariz, Ripsnort, Kieren...that when I have some fights against them (and of course I lose (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)),and I hold my own, I feel like a god. I know I wont feel the same if I fighted them in EZ mode. I dont want advantages on my side, or I'd have less fun.
That hooked me...and that won my money for HTC...
Dont see why it wont be OK to keep this way...if ain't broken..why fix it?
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Let me tell you that as a long time veteran of the battle of life, the time to show how you feel is when somebody starts moving towards the cupboard. Once he grabs the glass and starts pouring you're gonna drink whatever he gives you. Do it politely and straight forward but do it!
Beeg
Originally posted by danish:
This is a storm in a non exsisting glas of water.
<snip>
danish
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
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I get so tired of ppl sayn"I QUIT! I QUIT!!"
Geez,give it a break!!! If we aren't growing something needs to be done!!! HTC is filled with ppl that have a history in this bznss!! Give them a chance to grow!!
It's not unreasonalbe to want to grow. As I have said before, I trust their judgement.
I for one am very interested in their ideas as to how to solve the problem!!! I bet the resolution will be revolutionary as this sim is!!!
He heeeee,besides where ya gonna go anyway??
Ya know we gotta good thing here!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Originally posted by 1776:
I get so tired of ppl sayn"I QUIT! I QUIT!!"
Geez,give it a break!!! If we aren't growing something needs to be done!!! HTC is filled with ppl that have a history in this bznss!! Give them a chance to grow!!
It's not unreasonalbe to want to grow. As I have said before, I trust their judgement.
I for one am very interested in their ideas as to how to solve the problem!!! I bet the resolution will be revolutionary as this sim is!!!
He heeeee,besides where ya gonna go anyway??
Ya know we gotta good thing here!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 05-28-2000).]
1776, I give them the chance to grow, but you'll understand that if they choose a way that will piss me off till the end of time I wont pay for it.
I dont say "I'll Quit" in a bad mood, I say it to make clear what I want and what I am going to pay. And I am making clear what I am NOT going to pay. Not to make a menace. HTC can perfectly live without my $s, that is for sure.
I agree. It is reasonable to grow. But if they are going to do something I dont like in order to grow, then I dont see the point in staying. I love AH as it is and I am ok with AH growing, it will be best for all. But there are some limits in the gameplay mode that I dont want to see changed where i am flying. if that is changed, then I'm out.
And where am I going to go?. I lived 22 years without Aces High. I wont die dont worry. I am in a Falcon 4 Squadron,and it has been months since I last flew it. So dont worry about my future, I'll do it for you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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RAM why havn't you left already do to the mixture of auto take off in the same arena, or for that mater the auto fuel tank selection? You can make all the same arguments about it as you are about something you have no idea what it will be like.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech:
RAM why havn't you left already do to the mixture of auto take off in the same arena, or for that mater the auto fuel tank selection? You can make all the same arguments about it as you are about something you have no idea what it will be like.
HiTech
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) hitech...I fly Fw190...Kommandogërat, you know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am against EZmode for ones but not for the others. And as I wont fly EZ mode I?m not going to fight with people that have it on...so I am against a mixed arena.
Its not an attack against you,nor against HTC. You have your points and your views. You have your plans,you need to grow... and I respect that. I only say that when (if)those plans and views ,and mines, dont agree anymore, then I'll be out. And,hitech, you can understand it, I am sure.
Is nothing against you, really. You,all HTC, are really incredible, you have the nicest sim out there,and I am deeply hooked with it...but I know what I am going to pay for and what I'm not going to pay for. Sorry but is like that.
my statements on these threads only tell in what measures I agree and in wich ones I dont agree. And I regard this matter as a high priority one, not a second rate problem. So if the sim goes for the tracks I wont follow...then I'll leave.
[edit]
And, BTW,if you bring engine management into AH, dont worry I'll be the first to be happy to learn to fly with it.
ANd is not a lie. I say it seriously.
And BTW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...I DO manual fuel tank management on Fw190. I reserve AUX tank as "reserve" fuel. Ask my JG2 fellas...they know I do it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-28-2000).]
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You folks are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Good response Danish.
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
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Guys, I'm pretty sure that part of "HT's Vision" is to create a viable BUSINESS.
Uber-historical-veteran guys don't pay any more money than a newbie who hasn't figured out to shoot the red ones not the green ones.
I'm pretty sure some goodies for the vets and "historical" crowd are in the pipeline.
Give HTC some time to produce this stuff. And remember that more subscribers means HTC has the time and resources to create more "hard core" features, scenarios, and arenas.
P.S. RAM I find La-5FN to be the easiest plane to fly. Spit V is real close, but the lateral control is poor at high speeds. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Danish said: "This is a storm in a non existing glas of water"
LOL! Yep!
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Originally posted by funked:
P.S. RAM I find La-5FN to be the easiest plane to fly. Spit V is real close, but the lateral control is poor at high speeds. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
ummm La5FN needs A LOT of rudder input at low speeds, or rudder trimming. That is something that a newbie doesnt manage very well at the start (I know it, I've been there hehehe)...so I still think Spit is the easiest plane to learn in...
SpitIX...not V. IX is much more forgiving to E-bleeding maneouvers, IMHO.
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Go away funked!
Hehe
We La-5FN drivers knew that forever. Hell the reason I am in a VVS squad and flying here was because in beta days it was the only plane I could fly well.
I can still remember Wardog helping me..
"this plane handles nice but it only has two guns"
"Sorrow- those are two 20mm cannons.. "
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LOL Sorrow. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I REALLY like that plane, can't wait for La-7.
As for the ease of flight of the Spitfire, it is a historical feature that I am glad to see modeled. I think the ailerons should be heavier though, at least that's what a pilot who flew most of our planes said: http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Web/Special/Ethell/pirep2.html (http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Web/Special/Ethell/pirep2.html)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Some of you gents are getting lost in the specific mechanics e.g. EZ Mode and the specifics of certain present day planes. The other thread is best for that. This thread is about the company's attitude and whether or not it has changed and whether or not it will impact negatively on those like me and RAM who want the most realistic flight model possible e.g. full engine management, prop feathering, etc. etc. Damn you can even put in a pre-flight which might discover fuel contamination. REAL!!!
People who's only experience with aircraft is a plastic joystick and a 17" monitor don't know diddely squat about what this is all about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best pilot in here, repeat the best, will kill himself in a Cessna 150 without real world flight training.
As far as leaving or not leaving that's also not the issue. The issue is faith in what HT said as originally quoted and now wondering whether money concerns are now becoming more important than the original vision. Not to say money isn't important nor that they can't put in EZ-Mode, auto pilots and other hand holding. He'll I use the auto climb feature to allow me to go take a whizz while climbing to altitude and I know that only the most sophisticated aircraft have such goodies. Guys like me just want it separate and a re-affirmation of the original commitment to continue working towards the most realistic sim possible. For example I want an FW190 to be super sensitive to high speed stalls which can throw it into an uncontrolled spin or a 109 that kills more people on takeoff than the Allies did. Having that kind of FM is what I was hoping for down the road. No specific timetable just say it's so Joe! We don't want any mixing which would cause stress and suspiscion just to make some newby feel good about killing a veteran of Beta 1 while flying under a less demanding FM. Most definitely we don't want responses which sound like a "it's my ball and you'll play by my rules" or "take it or leave it" or "go away, we don't need you anyway". This might satisfy the immediate urge to strike back or get the testastorone stirred up but is neither constructive, diplomatic or good business. However, if instead of being good customers we're now just a revenue stream, then screw us all. How did Marie Antoinette so aptly put it? Let them eat cake? We know what happened to Marie don't we?
AH is the best flight sim right now, let's keep it that way!
Again
Beeg
Originally posted by hitech:
RAM why havn't you left already do to the mixture of auto take off in the same arena, or for that mater the auto fuel tank selection? You can make all the same arguments about it as you are about something you have no idea what it will be like.
HiTech
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
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There are only so many guys who REALLY want a "high realism" sim. Perhaps enough to keep a business afloat, but probably not enough to make it flourish, and maybe not even enough to allow it to keep up with the pace of competition.
So once you "gather up" all the high-realism guys, what do you do for customers? You have to bring in the "survey sim, just wanna have fun" guys. They aren't gonna play a sim where they can't start "having fun" and "winning" at least some of the time pretty quickly. To get em, you're gonna have to eliminate most of the learning curve, not just shallow it a bit. The question is what you do with em when you get em.
Almost anyone can be taught to fly a plane. The only variable is time. However, almost NO one can be taught to be an "ace." Therein lies the rub. Everyone WANTS to be an ace. The kind of player who's unwilling to put in the time to learn the full flight model is also the kind of player who's going to want to take "shortcuts to respectability" in the sim. He's going to want to get kills, and he's not going to wait months to get the first one.
So, fine, you create an environment where he CAN get kills, and he's happy. The HUGE question is whether you let that environment be the SAME environment with that now-small, not-big-enough-to-sustain-growth, group of hard core guys who DID want to have "full difficulty," who DID want to STRIVE to earn "respectability," and most importantly, MANY of whom haven't really gotten there yet.
Doesn't take a genius to say "Aaah, let's just let em turn off whatever parts they don't like. If all the realism dweebs quit, that's only 25% anyway, and they won't all quit, we know that."
Or you COULD build a system where the new guys START OUT with the physics relaxed so they can get up and running, compete primarily with each other, and GRADUALLY are "weaned" off of the relaxed physics so that ALL the experienced players are playing by the same rules, and NO one in the main arena has any physics "suspended" to draw unfair advantage from.
Of course, I am assumed to be less intelligent than anyone who does this for a living, so I won't bother you with any of my ideas. RL flight training philosophy has no applicability here, after all.
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I think you need to re-read what their goal is
It's just to create
one game
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almost NO one can be taught to be an "ace." Therein lies the rub.
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This is just one rub. There are so many other rubs that need to be taken into account that I am simply very happy to not have to deal with all these rubs from the developers perspective.
I just pay my subscription and do my best to get the most out of my time online. I *still* enjoy doing this after four years of daily combat simming. Which brings up another rub!......on second thought, forget about it for now.
Yeager
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We should leave this one to the guys that get to look at the subscription vs trial period numbers.
Having been a trainer and watched a friend go from 0 experiance to the top 40 I can appreciate that there might be a few tweeks that could be put in place that would make the transition easier yet not wreck the game.
I think that if 10 current pilots just cannot palate the change that is made, or even the prospect of change, but 15% more players stay on to subscribe after their trial period. Then that is worth considering.
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People who's only experience with aircraft is a plastic joystick and a 17" monitor don't know diddely squat about what this is all about.
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I agree in principle but I must say that I have learned a tremendous amount of things here in AH and earlier, in WBs about things
associated with the principles of powered flight and more specifically, ACM, that I could only have learned from a textbook and actual flight training.
Yeager
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As to the vision to produce a successful online flight-sim, I've already pointed to another one he created in which an easy mode has existed for the past 5 years and it's coexisted in that main for the past 3 years. But don't pay attention to that, let's just jump to conclusions about how everything works and about our greedy and nefarious intentions.
There is one thing that many people want in a flight-sim above everything else - they want to complain. Make up your own mind, don't let others do it for you because there's plenty of people who seize those opportunities.
You say you take exception to me stating what I think is obvious to anybody whose been around online flight-sims for a long time. But let me put the shoe on the other foot. I take exception to the accusatory tone of your post. This particular issue is not a new philosophy, it's the same one that was successfully applied before and the same one we started with here.
Nobody likes to think of gaming as a business, but it most certainly is, and we've treated it that way for the past 5 years. We're fortunate that the business we're in is something we're passionate about, but it's a business nonetheless. If you had any idea what it's taken to get to this point, you would feel very awkward at having written what you wrote.
Having worked on a successful game under an unsuccessful company, I can only say that that sucks. HT and I used to spend a lot of our time fighting off stupid business decisions that would have an adverse affect on the game and the business. HT finally left over one which in turn caused me to leave. We don't have to do that anymore. We've picked our market niche, it's the one we are most comforatable in, and we're going to do everything we can to succeed in it. That is no different than what we did in WB, and it's no different than when we first announced AH.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Thanks for the reply. My feelings remain unchanged and I will only add that it's been my experience in business that your friends will tell you what they perceive as the truth. Others will tell you what you want to hear. I saw something which if carried through could totally sour me against what I presently consider an excellent product and I told you so as have so many others. Now, the ball is in your court. Do what you think is best.
Thanks
Beeg
Originally posted by Pyro:
As to the vision to produce a successful online flight-sim, I've already pointed to another one he created in which an easy mode has existed for the past 5 years and it's coexisted in that main for the past 3 years. But don't pay attention to that, let's just jump to conclusions about how everything works and about our greedy and nefarious intentions.
There is one thing that many people want in a flight-sim above everything else - they want to complain. Make up your own mind, don't let others do it for you because there's plenty of people who seize those opportunities.
You say you take exception to me stating what I think is obvious to anybody whose been around online flight-sims for a long time. But let me put the shoe on the other foot. I take exception to the accusatory tone of your post. This particular issue is not a new philosophy, it's the same one that was successfully applied before and the same one we started with here.
Nobody likes to think of gaming as a business, but it most certainly is, and we've treated it that way for the past 5 years. We're fortunate that the business we're in is something we're passionate about, but it's a business nonetheless. If you had any idea what it's taken to get to this point, you would feel very awkward at having written what you wrote.
Having worked on a successful game under an unsuccessful company, I can only say that that sucks. HT and I used to spend a lot of our time fighting off stupid business decisions that would have an adverse affect on the game and the business. HT finally left over one which in turn caused me to leave. We don't have to do that anymore. We've picked our market niche, it's the one we are most comforatable in, and we're going to do everything we can to succeed in it. That is no different than what we did in WB, and it's no different than when we first announced AH.
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My feelings remain unchanged and I will only add that it's been my experience in business that your friends will tell you what they perceive as the truth. Others will tell you what you want to hear.
What kind of business are you in?
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Hmmmm.. sounds like yet ANOTHER arena that needs to be created. Maybe I'm beating this "create a special arena for each special need/feature" a little too hard lately... dunno. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Or maybe just an arena for all the opposing views to be settled in combat, sort of a "trial by fire". When the smoke clears, who ever is left standing is right. Hmmmm.. seems a bit barbaric, but would provide hour upon hour of cheap entertainment! (On a personal note, when the auto-take off was first introduced, I hadn't read the readme.txt about it. Needless to say, I was quite pissed off when some uninvited ghost took over my plane! And after I had felt so proud about actually being able to get a Corsair off the ground, all on my own! Fortunately I figured out how to turn it off... whew!") Features to help newbies are obviously important, but we should also attempt to teach them, not just guide them along. So let's see.. so far I have suggested 1)Uber Arena 2)Newbie Arena 3)the oft-begged for Historical Arena 4)Conflict Resolution Through Combat Arena 5)Any other suggestions? (PLEASE do not answer this post.. it is meant to bring humor, not provoke deep thought.) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Skorpyon
I/JG2 ~Richthofen~
"Feel the Sting......"
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Give HTC some time to produce this stuff. And remember that more subscribers means HTC has the time and resources to create more "hard core" features, scenarios, and arenas.
Yeah, we need as many players as we can get. Maybe we must do compromises about realism but on the other hand it might reward us with more options, planes and events because then HTC has more resources to do stuff. With the money they can get from new easy mode players they could hire new gfx artists and then produce vehicles and planes in faster pace.
Easy mode worked on WB nicely for many years. Maybe it was bit too easy or didn't limit plane performance as I would liked to see but it worked.
Easy mode was turned off in WB MA while a go and numbers dropped. Many were suprised because of high number of easy mode pilots. Maybe "hard core" realism freaks are even smaller group than they have thinked.
Easy mode is ok for me. Newbies need help so they can fly and score occasional kill. But even I dislike idea that easy mode allows you to fly planes to their 100% performance without trimming and torque.
Ideas, stupid maybe but ideas nevertheless:
When pilot gets a kill, indicate wether he is using easy mode in kill message
Since we are going to have plane based score modifiers, why not introduce easy mode modifier?
Let's stop whining for a second and let's just see how the things go. Easy mode is still far away and maybe it's better to wait until we have something concrete before we start judging it?.
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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) Warbirds
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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While it doesn't hurt to state your opinions on a subject, don't you all think that we have gone a little off the deep end here? We are arguing over something that is far far away from being implemented. Pyro has stated that they don't even know what they are going to do about EZ mode yet. Given HTC's prior record for improvements, I think the end result will only make it better. Please guys, lets just let HTC do their job and I'm sure the end result will be a good one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Originally posted by hitech:
RAM why havn't you left already do to the mixture of auto take off in the same arena, or for that mater the auto fuel tank selection? You can make all the same arguments about it as you are about something you have no idea what it will be like.
HiTech
HT my feelings run in the same general direction as RAM's do. I personally think it'll be a sad day in AH history if full EZMode FMs are mixed into the main. I never flew WB online because it was just too much $$, so I can't comment on how it was done there. I did switch back and forth between RR and FR in AW a few years ago, and I can say I'm glad they never mixed those arenas.
The automatic fuel management system and the auto-takeoff feature won't let someone who has blown all his E in a stupid move recover almost instantaneously and zoom up to kill whomever he is fighting.
All that being said I'll reserve final judgement until it's actually in the sim and I can see how it works.
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for those of you who never flew Easymode in WB, Ill try to give you an idea of whta it was like. The first thing you will notice is that you cant use full deflection of the flight controls, second thing you will notice is that you cant black out, the biggest thing you will notice is some how evryone can tell you are in easymode and they gun for you. What I saw was such a huge difference in the flight models that you were at a disticnt disadvantge to even be in the same arena as those not in easymode. So all of you lighten up it wont be Like AWIII it will take away and incourage the player to go to full flight model. If you doubt what I say go sign up for one month and try the air combat arena. Easymo can testify to that.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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The trick lies in creating an easymode, that *doesnt* give the user any advantages.
ie, keep adverse yaw, keep stalls and make them very deep indeed (but without the spins) and perhaps even reduce engine output by 5-10%.
It should be used to help people in the air, introduce the basic principles of flight and air-to-air combat and NOT as a crutch because they're lazy.
As a rank newbie coming into an online flightsim, he's not going to be able to tell the performance difference anyway. (And if he does, then he really should move off easymode ASAP).
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
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While I would be EXTREMELY uneasy about mixing eazy FM with regular in the same arena, I could prolly live with something that let them have easy mmode up to the first 10 kills on their account. After 10 kills its time for the training wheels to come off. That way its a very small percentage of players using EM at any one time in the arena. Not some pathetic banana who sticks to EM for 2 or 3 years.
We already have a type of easy mode. Its called , bombers, goons, tanks, M16s...(Maybe AAA and APC soon) If they want to grow up and be a big bad fighter pilot, they should have to work for it.
Nothing given has value. Anything worth having, is worth earning.
Regards,
Wab
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Daff, that's pretty good. Maybe instead of derating an exsisting type, allow EZ mode for only one type of plane. I.e. enable the Brewster Buffalo with fly-by-wire.
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The automatic fuel management system and the auto-takeoff feature won't let someone who has blown all his E in a stupid move recover almost instantaneously and zoom up to kill whomever he is fighting.
What will let someone do that??
Certainly not the easymode I knew in WB's.
When I flew the ACA I had to fly easymode, while the plane wouldn't go into a full blown spin, it sure did wallow and hang there long enough for any FR pilot worth a sh*t to nail you good.
I think you guys are tripping out on all these supposed advantages easymode pilots had in WB's. The only 'advantage' I could see is not having to trim your plane.
If HTC wants to mix easymode with Full Realism in the Main Arena, whoopty sh*t, I couldn't care less. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
HTC knows what they're doing guys. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pyro,nice and clear post.
I want to repeat this. I'm not against EZmode, but in some ways of implementing it. I full understand that you need to grow as a company, and to make your customer's base bigger than it is right now.
I dont doubt about your skill in introducing EZmode here, I only wanted to make clear that if one particular way that I dont like is adopted, then I'll have to see if it is owrth my money. And IMHO, the described EZmode in Wb, mixed in a MA is not worth my money.
THis is not an attack against you, nor HT, nor HTC. If I have to go I'll do without anger, I understand that some decisions are to be made in YOUR interest, not in mine, or in anyone's. You are the guys living from the money you earn here. So your right, you will do what YOU think is best for HTC. And I deeply agree with it.
I'm not complaining here, not from my point of view. As I told HT before if I am so worried is because this damned ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) simulator has hooked me, and I like it, I like the community and the men and women behind the company that created this wonder. And I'd hate to have to leave. But being as I am a guy with few resources I'm not able to stay if I cant have the fun I want because some feature is pissing me off.
Again, I may have stated my points too strongly. Never intended to offend you, HTC. If I did, I am sorry. But my point is made and my opinions there.
Thanks for your time.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-29-2000).]
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Here's one for free:
Create an "Academy Arena." ALL new players must complete "academy training" BEFORE they can enter the main arena. Provide suitable fanfare, T-shirts, whatever for graduating. Graduation depends on passing a series of "checkrides" administered by the trainers. As you pass each checkride, you lose some of your EZ mode benefits, and get closer to being able to enter the Main Arena. At a certain point, you have only, say, two EZ mode features left enabled, and can fly in the Main Arena if you wish, but only in "basic" fighters like the earlier Spit or 109. Trainers are on duty for training and checkrides at certain times, but for the rest of the time, the Academy Arena is just like the Main Arena, only with all the players having various levels of EZ mode enabled. The last phase of the Academy would be advanced ACM, designed to maximize your chances in the Main. If you pass those lessons, you graduate, and lose your EZ mode privileges, but have full access to all the Main Arena planes in the Main. If you choose not to take the checkrides, you stay in the Academy Arena, which presumably has lots of other guys in it to fight with, the same plane set, the same maps, "beginners' scenarios" and only a relaxed flight model to deal with.
Heresy, I know. Dogs and cats living together and all that. Keep the two arenas separate (the horror!) and force the new guys to actually learn to survive a bit BEFORE they can CHOOSE the tougher arena (the double horror!) but provide an entry-level arena that's both fun and challenging and rewarding at the same time (impossible!) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Has the added advantage that none of the guys in the Main are pissed off about EZ mode, and might even be enticed to help out with the Academy Arena, which would undoubtedly require large numbers of "Basic Training IPs." Of course, one would have to assume that some level of harmony and cooperation was actually a goal, rather than defensiveness and bunker mentality (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) To each his own I guess...
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As someone who's just tried AH for the first time, (and who'll syubscribe as soon as he gets a good net connection), I'd like to throw in my observations.
I have only ever flown 1 sim online, EAW. I found the transition to AH quite difficult, but not terribly so. I hoped to get a K/D of 1, I got as high as .9 and ended a bit lower.
The things I found most difficult were the skill of the existing pilots (not much you can do about that), and the early onset of blackout, which I think could be safely turned up for everyone.
I would not have flown easy mode if it had been offered, and I wouldn't want to fly in an arena where some pilots had different laws of physics. I wouldn't object, however, to giving new pilots some advantages, to be removed automatically when they reached a number of kills.
Remove range icons for everyone but newbies. Give new pilots auto trim. (trimming is difficult to get used to). But the best thing for new pilots would be to include offline aircraft for them to practice against.
It's difficult to practice offline when you have nothing to fly against. It's also not that much fun. People want to fight staight away. Give them something to practice against and a clear page of instructions on the download page before they begin and the newcomers will do better in their first experiences of AH online, and they will be more likely to sign up.
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I can only say, I completely agree with Pyro here. I'm in different line of real-time coding business but same setup, been in it forever same as them, went through 3-4 companies doing stuff and seen excellent code being ruined by stupid business decisions and crappy stuff making it big based on smart marketing & yielding to market pressure.
Trust their experience and dedication and just wait what comes down the line. Respectfully brought up opinions about the thing then will make them change the stuff since they know it's their business.
Too busy for last 3-4 months but hope to get flying the sim again, and of course full-realism and of course I suck ;-)
I really like the "you would feel awkward if you knew how much it took to get there". Once one did it, one knows that being top ace in this sim is trivial compared to what it means to make the guts of the thing work.
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I did,nt go into the WB main much. And then I flew FR most of the time when I did (I could get all the RR i wanted in the ACA. The few times I did try RR against FR. I found it to be like flying a 1c here. Easy to get kills. Hard to get home.
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Holy smokes!
I don't know what the big deal is here. Anyone who knows *me* knows I'm pretty much hard core as you get.
But this is a non issue. You *have* to have ez mode. You also *have* to have it implemented so that there is a reward for flying full realism or a penalty for flying ez mode. But isn't that obvious?
Personally I would just make it auto trim, stiffen up the landing gear and put a G-Limiter on board. That should do it.
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The Honeymoon's over, that's all that's wrong here. We've seen each other naked and heard what goes on in the bathroom. Now we've got to learn to live with each other in spite of that.
This is all a matter of perception, when I came in here I compared AH to my former flight sim and seeing the difference became more than willing to pay 3X as much. My love at first sight infatuation was bolstered by reading something into their mission statement which the writter perceived differently. I perceived AH to be a sim without compromise to any commercial considerations and assumed that's why they would charge 3x as much as my old one. Undoubtedly they thought that way but perhaps some hard core realities have hit as mentioned by Pyro in another post where he said that dot com companies had to become viable as soon as possible. This tells me that perhaps there are some investors putting on the pressure to get more paying bodies (does anyone know how many actual paying customers are in the arenas vs. people on 2 week passes?) in the door and the only way to do that is not to only meet the needs of hard core realism addicts but the masses as well. No problem, I can understand that.
Bottom line, there is nothing that anyone of us can say or suggest which will change the course of their decision making process unless somebody has a HTC stock certificate in their portfolio.
Only thing that counts is a polite opinion which they will hopefully tally up before they do something which would run against any particular customer's interests.
Personally I will reserve final judgement until I see how it affects me. I'm not against compromise and fully respect HTC's right to make business decisions in their own best interests as I do.
For accounting purposes these are my wishes;
1. No mixed EZ and Hard arenas as this would cause suspicion and controversy.
2. Continue working to bring more rather than less realism into AH.
3. To bring in masses of bodies offer the same pricing structure as a competitor that has a lot of people online e.g. $9.95/month flat. (Considering to superior quality of AH this should bring 'em in droves and undoubtedly make those already here very happy indeed.
Love AH
Beeg
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-29-2000).]
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"Newbies need help so they can fly and score occasional kill." - Jochen
Well no.. they don't. I didn't. Most folks I know around here helped themselves. Took a long time to climb the ladder perhaps, but they had the initiative and interest to do it.
Flammable stuff - I know...but here goes...
When we speculate on the influx of new customers which would only happen with the implemenation of EZ mode, we are indeed talking about a *type* of person. Most of us got our butts handed to us for months and months - this person won't have any part of that. Most of us spent a great deal of time learning the FMs; trim for example. This person can't be bothered. Obviously there are exceptions, but the truth of these satements is borne out of the fact that the only way to increase the customer base is to decrease the level of dificulty. They will not come/stay unless it's made easy.
Now - I want HTC to stay afloat. That means I want them to do *any* damn thing they want if they feel it makes sense for them. After reading these posts I've changed my mind quite a bit on it. I think there *are* ways to successfully bring EZ mode here, even mixed. And to be honest, I aint really that worried about this stuff.
I do though shudder when thinking of the types of people that this will attract. I will have a serious problem with the mentality that killin' me is a god-given right and FM along with earned skill be damned. "I want it easy, and I want it now". I can just imagine the clutter on the open channel when these folks start showing up.
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I’ve been into computers for the past 20 years. I became interested in computers because I could fly an airplane (Flight Simulator on a C64). I make my living with computers now, and it takes up a good majority of my recreational time as well (My wife could expound on this for hours (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)). I have “branched out” into other game genres over the years. The point being, I hear a lot of discussion about Relaxed Realism as if it was the only solution to getting more new blood in some people’s mind. I think the key to games that I have enjoyed over the years have been a worthy long-term goal that had many enjoyable milestones along the way. So these are some of my ideas on adding some interesting milestones along the path to becoming an aeronautical god (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
This sims strength are the skill required to fly it, community, and to a lesser extent the strategic capturing fields. The purpose of the game, to me, seems to be a quest for ACM skill. There are other things that players can do, I know, but in general we use “kills” to mark our progress in obtaining this skill. This is not bad, but I think that with a little more effort and imagination we could do so much more. So here we go if you’re not bored outta your skull yet…
I think that we need to put more milestones to mark a pilot’s progress. I think that we should institute rank into the game. This would be an easy way to mark your progress as a pilot.
Cadet – This would be your 2 week trial period. There should be an offline check ride that teaches you how to navigate an aircraft from A to B, “kill” a target using cannons, MG’s, bombs and rockets, and use your view keys. A lot of time seems to be spent by the trainers teaching the very basics on how the sim works to newbies. If this can be automated, the trainers would have more time to teach the basics of survival in the MA. I also think there should be relaxed realism for Cadets. I don’t believe there should be a different physics model, just automate as many things as possible for the Cadet (Auto Trim, unlimited ammo, unlimited fuel, a relaxed stall model, ability to take more damage). I don’t want UFO’s, but I would have no problem with a very forgiving aircraft that reduces the learning curve as well as reinforces good ACM technique. There could also be a specific aircraft designated as a trainer (an overmodeled Texan with guns might be cool). Granted it may not be historically accurate, but it would let everyone fighting it know that a cadet is at the controls and the people that prefer not to engage aircraft flying with relaxed realism can avoid them.
O1 – You would become a “commissioned officer” when you begin paying for your account. Your goal as an ensign would be to become fully qualified in your “Texan”. Each few kills another relaxed realism setting would turn off until you became a qualified pilot. Once qualified any plane in the set would be made available to you.
O2 to O5 – The lower ranks could use a kill count as a path for advancement. As you moved higher in the ranks obtaining kills with different aircraft, bombing, and C-47 flying would help your advancement..
O6 to O8 – Advancing through these ranks would be accomplished by planning and leading missions. Encouraging veteran pilot’s to organize the fighting for their country.
O9 to O10 – Advancing through these ranks would be accomplished by the successes of other pilots. These pilots would have to take others "under their wing". These would be the ambassadors of the community. These are the types of pilots that would be squad leaders and trainers.
I think that this system would give players a little more focus and purpose to their flying. I think that these ranks should be self paced, but demanding. The Pilot Rankings already provide competition for those that desire it. I think that these would provide additional and worth while goals for the average pilot, and still keep the community together in one arena. I personally believe this is absolutely vital until our numbers increase sufficiently to allow for multiple arenas. I think giving the newbie a smaller chunk of the pie when they first start off, as well as some early successes would help the community in the long run. In addition, if none of this appealed to you there would be nothing forcing you to participate once you reached the O-2 level.
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I think alot of you guys must have missed this from another thread. Excuse Pyro...
By Pyro
I don't normally like to talk about WB, but since recent changes are bleeding over and having an affect on our future direction, I'd like to elaborate on a few things.
Having easy mode enabled in the main arena has been in WB since 1.11. This idea was first suggested by Trips. I recoiled from it at first but then it made sense. Trips and I ran a lot of tests to see if this would confer an advantage to an experienced player and found that that was not the case. While it would help the inexperienced player, it would actually handicap the experienced player. A great idea, and it was implemented. It's been that way for the past 3 years or so. It didn't detriment WB, it didn't make people leave.
This idea came on the heels of our inability to successfully seed an easy arena. While we could get plenty of players when we gave it away for free, we just couldn't compete at $2 per hour vs the $10 per month that the competition was offering.
We kept close tabs on numbers. We watched things like how many users we had using PCs or Macs and how many were using easy mode vs regular. We watched account growth and arena usage on a weekly basis. It wasn't speculative on our part.
We're in this business for the same reason as any other business- to make money. If that wasn't our goal, this would be a hobby not a business. But this is a very tough business. Some of our competitors are backed by multi-billion dollar corporations that don't need an immediate profit, some are depending on dot-com investors which are drying up quickly, and some have to become viable soon. We are the latter.
IEN is in a difficult position. They aren't cash rich and they're not in the black. They cannot afford to take hits to their revenue stream but that is exactly what they did when they moved a bunch of paying customers off to non-paying areas.
Despite their "record" revenue claim from online games, their quarterly report shows a loss in this area from a year ago. This is despite all the players playing Figher Ops on AOL that are allegedly adding to WB development. Frankly, it befuddles me how a representative of a publicly traded company could make any claims to earnings, much less false ones. Those things come out in press releases and quarterly reports. If I were an investor in Ien, I'd be finding an attorney to file a class action lawsuit.
So in the 3 years or so that easy mode has been available in the WB main, it only now has become a real problem due to internal reasons which has just cost a cash starved company a lot of money.
Where we stand is no different now than it was before. We're not going to implement something that gives an experienced player an advantage. If it gives an inexperienced player an added advantage due to his lack of experience, well that's the point. But while the easy mode in WB was cited as being theoretically advatageous in certain situations, I knew of no decent pilot who wouldn't be at a disadvantage using it. While it made some things easier, it handicapped an experienced player more. This handicap really didn't make a difference to the new player because he didn't have the skill to utilize it anyway and that was the point.
While I don't yet know what we will do, our viewpoint on this is no different than it was several years ago. It comes down to what will work for us.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
I think some gyro's have overevved.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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And the Pyro's further rebuttal...
By Pyro
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I see people getting bent over something that they're not even familiar with. We don't yet have an easy mode, we don't yet know exactly how we're going to implement one, and we don't yet know if we'll be able to mix it or not. However, we do fully understand the issues involved.
In the end, my preference would be for an easy mode that can be mixed and kept fair, but with a separate arena. The reason for this is because it gives new players an easier arena to play in without having to fall victim to all the hardened vets, and yet not divide the game completely so that things like special events have to be tailored to one group or another. But bringing up another arena is a lot more involved than just starting one up. You have to have the people to seed it with.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
Am I still missing something?
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Hehe Mino. I think everyone's read those. Whatcha gettin' at? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think I smell hypocrites in the woods.
When I started buffs didnt have guns..which make shooting them down a little easier
When I started there was unlimited wep which somewhat allievates the stall problem.
When I started there was no riping your wings off in a dive(you figure it out)
When I started the number of planes that could kill you at 1.1 was 2 shorter then it is now.
When I started they were constinly adding new MAJOR new features that everyone had to figure out together and that leveled the playing field alot.
When I started there where only 4 planes or so and it was much eiser to know what the capabilities of the bad guys were.
When I started there was alot less triming required and the planes flew quite abit more alike then they do know.
When I started there was no black out(or it was different)
Was there compression...NO
Nap of the earth and goon driving shure were easy on the old map...
Those are the major ones.
SOUNDS ALLMOST LIKE A KIND OF EASY MODE.
Give people a break.
Almost none of us have the experiance of being droped into this arena and told to swim.Slowly learning the game as it evolved was an incredadable advantage.
SHARE THE WEALTH
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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Originally posted by Nash:
Hehe Mino. I think everyone's read those. Whatcha gettin' at? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Nash, I doubt they read it completely nor took the time to understand what it says.
I thought I would be just a little helpful...
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Not that this helps or contributes in any way but... .squelch "yo!what happend to ht's I's"
"Walk away, just walk away, leave the gas..."
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"Yo! What Happened To HT's Vision?"
ummmm....
It continues to evolve, tempered by the realities of the marketplace?
It continues to evolve according to HIS vision?
It continues to evolve according to HIS vision, with input and suggestions by his customers?
Maybe a little of all of the above?
I just play. I just have fun. I welcome every new version and I learn to live with the things I personally would have done differently.
If it ever gets to where I DON'T haved fun...well, I'll worry about that day if and when it comes.
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This is better then Days of your life, im hooked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by bongo:
This is better then Days of your life, im hooked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LOL Bongo, its more like "As the Stomach turns...."
Hey, you going to Texas for the Con Bongo? Wanna split a room?
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Pongo whilst my feelings on this subject lean towards agreeing with RAM you make a sound point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I started in beta too and you are right.
I'll watch, play and wait in hope things will work out for the best.
HTC have done a fantastic job and my only complaint is that they dont work 24hours a day to make me happy hehehe just kidding guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
no wheres that whip .....
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Sorry Rip
going some where else, made plans along time ago (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Heyas..
Ok mebbe this is the wrong thread to post this I dunno...
But, I am visiting from aw3, and AH rox, but sadly I cannot afford $30. WHich is actually closer to $45 here in Canada ay! Now $20 US$ maybe....
And don't gimme that $30 is $30 no matter what country your in, incomes vary...
SKurj
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<SIGH>...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
The dream is over...time to wake up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Probably will get flamed for this again.. like I always get when I say this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If AH was 10 bucks a month they would get a HELL of a LOT more costumers. The FM does NOT need to be EZ'd... heck, the FM is what ATTRACTS people to AH instead of AW or WB or those MS losersims!
I have 12 friends here in my neighborhood that are online sim fans.. some are 20+ years olds, the youngest is 14. You think they will be in AH if they could? Hell yes! They flew the 2 week trial, squeaked and suffered for the first 3 days of it, but then got the hold of it and just plain LOVED it. 2 weeks gone... $30 a month is just out of the question. Pooof! 12 costumers gone.
Not to mention that in other countries $30 a month is way over the heads of the common players. In my country in South America, $30 a month is like 60 thousand pesos... with that amount you can buy food for a month. Get my drift?
$10 a month would bring a LOT of people into AH. Those who like it are those who have friends that like these kinds of sims... they will also be brought into AH. Those who dont like it will go back to MS sim or AW and squeak about the "hard FM"... and hey, those who listen to that squeaking are likely to say "Hot damn! That sounds like a REALISTIC sim! Ill check it out!"... and become AH'ers.
*puts on his asbestos suit*
FLAME AWAY (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Edited:
As far as the "EZ mode for new players":
I was a "new player" when I first flew the game.. I was somewhat familiar with ACM because I flew a LOT of SWOTL and Aces of the Pacific... but of course, nothing prepares you for playing against human pilots. I was in AW3 beta.. got my butt kicked.. ROYALLY. I became a ground attack player because I couldnt ACM worth a damn. AW3 Beta ended and I still couldnt ACM. Then, YEARS after not playing any WW2 sim, I find AH. In a week I got to be average skill in ACM, thanks to the fact that AH's graphics allow you to SEE what the other dude is doing, and many players in the community will tell you how to do it, go to the TA with you, etc.
If HTC wants to put in something EZ-like for newbies or somethign that will not get them creamed by vet players, then perhaps the addition of "trainer planes", aka a model of each plane in the set that is invulnerable to fire, whose guns do no damage and whose icons and plane paint scheme would be bright orange or something to allow other players to ID it. This would allow the newbies to TEST their abilities against players that will ignore them (it is as hard to tail and shoot a plane that is ACM'ing another plane that is not yours). This will give them newbies flight time and "fight time" in the all the models of planes...without taking them off to another arena!.
This may not be the best of ideas, but its a start (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 09-03-2000).]
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Got to go with tac on this one. Its not the FM that keeps the players in FA, AW, or even the ACA. Its the extra 20 bucks a month.
The full realsim was worth the money. But as AH moves closer and closer to them (weaker guns, padlock views, combat trim. You can call them what you want. But, anything the computer does for you is easy). The reason for spending the extra money becomes less and less.
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O.K. RAM, you woke me up! Would be nice to know why you stirred up my post from 4 mos. ago? Could you share? Since you woke me up here's an updated opinion. AH is a lot of fun but realistic? I've been flying the FW-190A5 lately and been slapping the stick around like an adolescent. Have I dropped out of the sky like I used to in the FW190 in FA2? Nope, it's kind of forgiving in that department. Considering my real life +3000 hrs. maybe my kill ratio would be better if my oponents would kill themselves by just not being able to control their planes, LOL. Bottom line, as you can see from the posts up above, this is a commercial venture and HTC will do whatever it takes to make it successful by "their" estimation. At this point, the fun and visual quality of the game more than offset any hard core addiction I might have to a "super realistic" flight sim. Guess I must be mellowing or recognizing that I don't have the money to go out and get the kind of sims which are used int he airline and military to train real life pilots. Those are realistic!
Beeg
Originally posted by RAM:
<SIGH>...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
The dream is over...time to wake up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 09-03-2000).]