Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on May 28, 2000, 08:00:00 AM
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You know, I have to ask one question in light of all this fuss over easy mode (EM) and full realism (RM), which by the way isn't even implemented here yet. So, panic isn't the order of the day until we see some fire. Somehow, I suspect that Pyro and Hitech will do the right thing based upon the input they've had on here, plus their experience in what did and didn't work at iEN. Give them some time, experimentation opportunity and intellectual credit, for ultimately being able to give us realism, fun and play balance. The result has to be able to make a REAL business out of HTC, not a non-profit religious experience. If the latter becomes the driving force here, we'll all be over at FA or WWII On-line.
My question is, I simply don't understand why all of the "experten" virtual pilots on either WB or AH, have such a vociferous negative reaction to flying in a mixed mode arena? I've seen a number of posts from guys who's flying skill and maturity level, I both admire and respect a lot, saying they'd quit AH if that happened.
I would have thought that once you get to the point of being able to bang out 2,3,4 kills per sortie, that some form of boredom and lack of challenge would have been felt by those pilots. By giving the novice, or even the guy who has been flying for some time this "golf" type handicap of EM, you'd think it would be kind of exciting for a RM pilot to go up against them?
Perhaps I've missed the point entirely, but personally, I would find it challenging to fly RM against an EM pilot, just so I could maintain the skill of pushing my virtual plane past the point where the EM pilot has an artificial barrier.
I would only like to see the EM pilot's plane marked on his icon with the fact that he's in that mode, so I can challenge myself as to the ACM to use against him.
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-28-2000).]
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not being a experten , but the badest thing in a pair of boots in a 109 . the very thought of a hog-c in easymode ( if its anything like thay had in wb) will degrade the fun of the whole game.
lots of people just love killing and will use any advantage available in the game to do it. in wb there were fellows who knew how to fly just fine but had found they could game the game with easymode.
most of us are frome air warrior and war birds roots and subscribe to the saying ( thos who do not know history are doomed to repeat it ) we have seen this before and it sucked so people mention history lest it repeat itself ..
i think that is what you missed
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Bagder, nice post.
I do give Pyro and HT credit, and I know that they'll do the best for HTC. but if they think the best for them is EZmode mix in MA, then that way isnt mine, so I'll go.
I understand that they need to do business, and do things in theyr money interest...but again I wont support that measure because is not in MY money interest.
You say that EZmode would be treated as Golf Handicap...and they are opposite things. If in a Golf course you sign a card of -7, and the other with worse handicap than you signs a -9 then he has won...but still you HAVE -7.
What you do, your play, doesnt depend on the other's handicap.
Here if one benefits from EZmode, the other will take BENEFIT from you...and you depend on the other's handicap. That isn't fair its kind of quitting weight from one side of the balance and putting on the other side. And I wont support that.
And I am quite sure that people will use EZ mode even if they arent newbies...I am already seeing the flames here:
"HEY YOU CHEATER YOU ARE IN EZ!"
"NO I AM NOT"
"YES YOU ARE"
etc etc etc.
This is a REAL danger for the current community and Aces High in general.
I say, if it isn't broken, why fix it?...Pyro, HT, are you REALLY sure this will give you more money?...do you REALLY want that extra money at the cost of pěssing off half a community and make a big part of it take the door and go?...
IF ain't broken, dont fix it.
IMHO.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-28-2000).]
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The game parameters should be identical for whatever the arena supports. Easymode pilots should fly in the Easymode arena. With time and practice they can take the plunge within the RA.
I have experienced a mixed type arena within another popular flight sim and it was a disaster, IMHO. You had guys who were great pilots who never flew within the full real settings and who became masters at downing full real aces. In addition, its been my experience that arcade type games bring into a sim alot of bantering and disrespectful commentary within the arena.
Having played within our honor system historical, no tag arena, I think I can say that all of us there hope everyone has their icons in the off mode. The general concensus from everyone Ive met so far is lets make this a level playing field.
Im not panicing, but Arcade for arcade and real for real (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
JagdNine (Musketeer Escadrille)
[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Its not the new beginning pilot in EZ mode that is the concern. Its the guy who has flown it for 2 years. Some guys never leave EZ mode. They develop skills in the game using it, and instead of transitioning to real mode, they learn to use the advantages of EZ mode against real mode pilots.
They will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing, and they will not black out when you do, giving them a longer view at your plane.
I would have no problem with beginners using EZ if it were just beginners. But its not.
EZ mode can help level the playing field a small amount for new guys, but when someone is good at the game and uses it, he can figure out how he can use it to a decided adavantage. That is the problem as I see it.
Dago
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Errrrr, just a though..... 2 Main arenas.... see what I mean ?
Why would you want to mix both ?
Sorry, am a dweeb in the subject (AH is my 1st online sim experience...)
Am I missing something ?
Saw, Dweeeb 'O matic
PS : Spatz Vs Saw (6846654/1!)
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As a non-subscription player of AH(I fly only h2h for lack of entertainment funds),perhaps I shouldnt even speak my view on this.But I have brought a squad of 8 into AH fot the H2H ladder and that hopefully gives HTC some added exposure and future support as THEY spread the word of this BEST WW2 aircombat sim.
That being said ,I will opine that if RR is to be implemented it should be in its own arena.I too have seen the mess it made over at the 'old sim'.Tho it wont affect me as a H2H only player,let the 'experten'reap the rewards they have bought with thier experience and 'time on'.
As a H2H ladder pilot I myself will have to leave if I have to trust that my adversary is not in RR mode.In 1 vs 1 combat with everything on the line-I know too many will be tempted to use the adv. that RR allows,even if it means breaking the 'honor' code.
By-Tor
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"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"
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Someone please tell me how easy mode can be an advantage, I missed it.
ra
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Originally posted by ra:
Someone please tell me how easy mode can be an advantage, I missed it.
ra
Imagine a Fly-by-wire 109G10 (so you cant pull it into a stall nor a Spin), autotrimming, UFO (able to hand in prop as noone can do).
You get the point?
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Borrowed from Dago...
They will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing, and they will not black out when you do, giving them a longer view at your plane.
May not sound like alot ,but in air-combat,any LITTLE advantage can make the difference.It is indeed a game of inches.
By-Tor
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"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"
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Hmmm. I think if I had finished in the Top 10 a few times using EZ mode, I wouldn't do much pontificating about folks not being willing to accept "more of a challenge."
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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All I see is alot of commenting by people who don't even know how EZ mode (in product WB) works. I suggest you all download WB and test EZ mode offline or H2H so you have a better idea of how it works. I hear a lot of comments that are nothing more than speculation about how EZ mode works.
PS - Jedi, get a grip. Just because someone can fragfest in EZ mode to get points for *Scoring* doesn't mean a whole lot IMO. As Bobn demonstrated, it isn't how well you fly, or how efficiently you kill, being a high scorer is related to how much you fly. To be frank about it... scoring doesn't mean toejam... I'd be alot more worried if someone in EZ mode was in the Top 10 for Kills/Deaths, Kills/Sortie, or Avin's ratio.
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 05-28-2000).]
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<<they will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing>>
This sounds like an improperly modeled easy mode. Stalls and spins should happen at the same AoA as normal mode. Easy mode should prevent the pilot from reaching this AoA. As far as blackouts, I don't see any reason they should be turned off for easy mode. Anyone who needs easy mode will be an easy kill, he just won't auger or spin in as often, so he won't mind getting killed so much. If someone can use this alleged easy mode in a way which makes it better than real mode, then it hasn't been modeled right.
Let's wait and see, before we grab the pitchforks and torches and storm HTC. Much ado about nothing, IMHO.
ra
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Exactly right Ra... the WB EZ mode prevents the pilot from getting to an angle of attack where they could stall or spin. Again, lots of people here are spouting off about EZ mode, but it's increasingly obvious that precious few actually know what they're talking about.
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
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EZ-mode WB planes can't do anything a good pilot can't do with EZ-mode off.
It's just that they let a ham-fisted pilot get closer to the edge of the envelope than he might be able to normally.
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Funked. I flew the ACA pretty much 7 days a week for a year and half. I can do things in EZmode that would never evn occer to an FR pilot to try.
BTW. So can badger.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Snakeeyes--
(whoosh) Swing! and a miss! Well, the point will undoubtedly appear again. You might get it the next time.
If you can't see the advantages conferred by EZ mode, and won't believe the actual statements by guys who say they HAVE used it to gain advantages, then I'd say you don't have a very good understanding of how EZ mode works in the ARENA, however "perfect" your understanding of how it works in the software might be.
Been playin 5 years, all RM. Best ever K/D is 2. Some of these EZ-mode types have K/D of 3 and 4. So, OK, I must suck. But apparently, I'm also stupid for not using EZ mode. I have ZERO problems flying in RM. It's not difficult at all. So why are these EZ mode guys, who are already "better pilots" than me, sticking with EZ mode?
The results don't validate your hypothesis, they validate mine.
And if I DID have a K/D of 3 or 4 using EZ mode, I SURE wouldn't suggest that RM pilots don't have the balls to accept the "challenge" of fighting EZ mode JERKS who should've switched to RM long ago (not to be confused with an EZ-mode newbie, whose guns I'm perfectly happy to fall to).
Whatever, I guess, but I hope the AH guys at least understand how deep the bad feelings about this run. You don't want this to happen over here guys.
And with that, personal attacks notwithstanding, I'll bow out of your forum.
At least until I can't resist any more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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It's not hard to fly in real mode. Someone who knows absolutely squat about flying could learn it in 10 hours. It's called 'practice offline'. If someone can land the plane in EZ mode, they can land it in real mode, there's no difference there. If he/she gets too slow in EZ mode, the nose drops and the plane crashes! I can see the auto-takeoff thing being useful for those without pedals, but that's as far as it needs to go, IMO.
Like really, what's so hard about this?
Lesson #1. Don't pull stick back so far
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I could see if people were paying by the hour how they may want an EZ mode to help with the learning curve. I love this game so either way I'm not leaving.
How about this: When you sign up for an account, you get two weeks trial. During these two weeks EZ mode can be toggled on and off. I think two weeks is long enough for someone to learn the basics of the flight model. ( I still push the envelope and rip off my wings, but it is stupidity not ignorance of the FM)
I am very proud of the kills I get, they are not very many. But, I earned them on a level playing field,(so to speak) If I could double them in EZ mode, they would be cheapened and the pride I felt would be gone.
Just my 2 cents,
coker
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It's back again-one of my old gripes from past war-torn posts. In easy mode a high performance AC kinda goes into a trainer/quasi still fast machine mode. I always thought "Why not just build a trainer" like a T-6 and have the trainee chase a Culver drone around and shoot it up with a couple of 30cal mguns. After the trainee can land and do basic manuvers and blast a drone he/she gets 'wings' and gets to go in a fighter. I think this would be an added dimension for sims patterned on real life and a way to break in folks so when they get into the arena they'd at least be able to handle the fighter well enough to have fun and not get too frustrated. I really don't think that the fighters should be toned down. A training arena with real trainer AC would only add fullness/completeness to a sim like AH.
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Badger;
What would you do if the management's vision didn't include marking their icons with EM? Would you feel perfectly comfortable knowing that "some" but you don't know who are not held back with the same constraints as you are? Under the assumption that it's a mixed arena with no distinguishing icons, what do you think would happen if somebody did one of those "Hey! <Ace_of_Aces> shot me down using easy mode! He's a wimp! Who will be able to prove that easy mode doesn't provide an advantage? Do you think that HT will post the code for anyone with programming experience can dissect it? No, I don't think so. It's a can of worms and it will poison our community. I wasn't here from the beginning but in my memory, this is the first thing HTC has mentioned as a posibility that has illicited so many negative posts. I really hope they think long and hard on this before implementing such a divisive feature.
Beeg
Originally posted by Badger:
<snip>
I would only like to see the EM pilot's plane marked on his icon with the fact that he's in that mode, so I can challenge myself as to the ACM to use against him.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
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Snake;
I don't give a flying rats bellybutton about how it works, I just don't like the word EASY! I like the word REAL! I also have very good eyes (with glasses) and I read what HTC originally wrote and I liked it because it sounded like REAL. Then just this week those same eyes read Pyro's post and I start reading EASY. Then I go on and I read that now they need money and hell I even read that they can't just live on those he calls old-timers (since I came here with my $30 in Jan. he can't be talking 'bout me). We'll I get's my dander up and think, Man, they're about to give us a screwing so I starts tightening my belt and puckering up. That's what this is all about! Different threads about the same thing everywhere. Can somebody say What the F? Suggest you get some eyelids so your eyes will focus better on the issues. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Beeg
Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
All I see is alot of commenting by people who don't even know how EZ mode (in product WB) works. I suggest you all download WB and test EZ mode offline or H2H so you have a better idea of how it works. I hear a lot of comments that are nothing more than speculation about how EZ mode works.
PS - Jedi, get a grip. Just because someone can fragfest in EZ mode to get points for *Scoring* doesn't mean a whole lot IMO. As Bobn demonstrated, it isn't how well you fly, or how efficiently you kill, being a high scorer is related to how much you fly. To be frank about it... scoring doesn't mean toejam... I'd be alot more worried if someone in EZ mode was in the Top 10 for Kills/Deaths, Kills/Sortie, or Avin's ratio.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/bee.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]
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<<<I don't give a flying rats bellybutton about..>>>
Is that rat's bellybutton flying in Easy Mode? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Jedi:
You just charged the mound, pal. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I played Fighter Ops extensively with Badger, and I'm sure he'll tell you that I'm pretty conversant with the capabilities of an EZ mode aircraft in any arena.
In any case, again, I think everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill here... let's see them create an EZ mode before crucifying it.
I'll give you credit on one point... it was damn funny watching all these folks rip the WB EZ mode, only to find out that it was inserted into the game by none other than the same crew that runs AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) However, I think the approach here in terms of info sharing has changed alot since the old days, and that Pyro will ensure that anything created meets with the approval of most of the crowd here. Obviously there will be a few ideologues like Beejer who won't compromise at any cost.... but that's life. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
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I did quit playing AH already before its beta ended, because it does not offer too much that realism side or balanced modelling.
With balanced modelling I mean that allie and german planes are not out of same oven.
Most glitches have been in german planes so far. (ie. heavy torque of 109 at one point of game that made its autopilot almost completely useless)
Also there are some gun issues...
I made once over 20 kills in spitfire just by strafing, I even had good time to test guns.
Results? well, I had to hit enemy only 1-2 times and thats it, some part flew away and plane crashed.
Then Ive been doing alot of this in german planes (germans have been my primary ride), but cannon effect was far weaker.
They even flew after 5 hits into same spot. (note that in spitfire, not a single hit went same spot, because convergence was not set for close shots)
I also wonder whats that all whining was couple versions ago about .50 caliber weakness, I had no problem shooting down +10 fighters (in air) with P-51 in a sortie (until i was out of ammo)
Also plane models seems to be bit off...
Ive seen some things that I would never expect from few planes.. (things that ive read that were very hard, if not impossible for that type of plane)
Though, this might not be any reason for those allie experts to quit, who are happy with their planes and their 'balanced' realism.
I Hope that WWII Online works out better with plane FMs, I really would like to see game that is based more on realism.
Too many games so far are made to 'average' people, who dont bother to learn skills too long. (and whats more funner for americans than beating few luftwaffe experts like they would be some butterflys, with their 'average' skills)
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I flew for one of the larger 'FR' squads in AW for a few years. Since discovering the joys of AH, I've gently tried to entice as many of my fellows to at least try AH as I could. Perhaps 9 people have tried it out. Of these, only 2 others have moved here.
And this is HTC's problem of course. I mean AH is superior to AW in every way, FAR superior in most. Why on earth would anyone see the differences for themselves and still stay in AW??? Pricing and already being part of an established community account for a couple; but most simply fly a few times during their first 2 weeks, get shot down a lot, can't hit much in return, so decide to stick with what they know. AH is no fun.
We're all here because we want 'real.' And 'real' is fun, once you get past the initial steep learning curve. The fact is many (the majority even?) of people who try AH, obviously the best WW2 sim out there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) don't persevere. They don't get much fun from practising offline. They don't get much fun from losing any 1 on 1 they encounter. They don't even understand trim, let alone find managing it 'fun'. Basically, they just don't have the patience.
So, do we say "FU" to these guys, or take, just a little, of the burden away? An EZ mode arena would be great, but if people logging on for the first time go to such a place and find only a handful of people there, the effect of such an arena could be more counter-productive than anything.
I wouldn't object to flying against, say, autotrimming nme. I'm less sure about the AoA inhibitor, but I've not experienced this in WB so can't really say. I'd be prepared to give it a go. All of this on condition that once a pilot has logged a certain number of hours, got so many kills etc, these benefits are lost.
We all know real is fun. I BELIEVE in FR (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)and I also believe that most people who try it and persevere get as much out of it as I do. Some people need to be weaned around to this point of view however (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Guarantee me that any pilot I encounter flying in EZ mode is a newbie, and I wont mind. If introducing this kind of restricted EZ mode helps keep HTC viable then hey, that's a price we should all be willing to pay.
Vladd
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I think it would be cool. Some one anounces over channel 1..
Hey Pongo was my 35th kill! I just got promoted to real FM!
Bunch of players pipe in to congradulate him and welcome him to the rest of the game(that has shot down pongo)
You KNOW that guy has a heavy incentive to pitch in his $30.....
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I think Pongo has hit the proverbial nail on the head. All pilots' scores are tracked for each tour. What about allowing a set number of kills as a "Pilot Training Period" in easy mode. As the pilot approaches his limit, he recieves a warning when logging on... "xx More Kills Until Real Mode Begins". This would eliminate the problem of vet pilots taking advantage of easy mode, would reward ALL pilots for improving their skills, and would somewhat simulate the "real" way combat pilots developed... after flight training and practice flights, they get to do the real thing. Once a pilot has reached his limit on Easy Mode kills, he can not go back. Sounds like a way to keep everyone happy, use a potentially useful training tool, and not add a very "arcade" quality to an otherwise excellent game. WTG Pongo!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Skorpyon
I/JG2 ~Richthofen~
"Feel the Sting......"
[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 05-30-2000).]
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I like the idea of having a limited time/score/kills for EZ mode usage. Besides that, how that if EZ users have special Icons (new colours, and extended visibility range)?.
Apart from that, we could have all EZ users' planes painted in plain colour, say 'pink'.
PS: I wouldn't leave even If only me is flying RM (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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And after a set amount of time in "Easy mode" the newbies kill X amount of planes, then get "promoted" to a flight model that they stall into the terrian time after time, or get stall fighted outta Energy into oblivion?
Won't they quit within 10 days because the "rush" and "reward" is replaced by utter and complete frustration of failure?
Where does this promoting of not learning anything by getting used to a "point and shoot" flight model solve anything?
Just wondering for the points made is all...Ive no opinion yet as I'm a Dweeb newbie to this whole online realistic sim thang.
I personally liked learning a more realistic format, and better yet... looking forward to studying it to figure it out.
P.S>
You could save 95% of the newbies frustration by having HTC print a professional manual, just like what every other boxed sim has.
Not a online manual that I can't even stand to navigate.
A real life printed, spiral bounded, take to the crapper and read manual that covers all of the info on aircraft, vehicles, weapons, strats, and community. It's what this sim needs, and much more than the next effort on a graphical improvement. Really.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Lets keep this sim realistic as much as possible and BAN ez mode from it for all times. Those who want EZ mode can start flying Fighter Ace or something
Bean
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(http://saintaw.tripod.com/mrbean.gif)
Johan "MrBean" Dorssers
[This message has been edited by Mr. Bean (edited 05-30-2000).]
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I can remember the frustration of learning a "real mode" or "full realism" flight model, and its even the reason I canceled my first Warbirds account, waaaaayyyyy back when. So I remember what the new guy felt.
But I also know as an "old stick" that I fly here to test my skills against other pilots. Thats the main reason for being here. Its the fun of even and fair competition.
So I do believe that an EZMode should be available to help out the new guys, who are struggling with the entire concept and learning curve of the game.
BUT an unlimited EZMode that pilots can fly forever, and use to their advantages, against pilots flying in a more difficult flight model is just as bad. Its almost like a sanctioned cheat. Easymo could do things in a Ki-84 in easy mode, that I could never have done in full mode.
The Two arena's concept that AW uses is as bad idea IMO. This puts a permanent split between the RelaxedRealism and FullRealism pilots, and most pilots will never make the step up to the "real or full" level.
Personally, the only way I can see that it can be done even halfway fair, is to have a mixed arena limited available time for EZmode. Where once the pilot flies X hours, or gets X kills, they graduate up to the real thing.
Otherwise we're just creating more future problems than we're solving.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I could only echo what Vermillion said. A permanent mix of physics or seperate entities do not appear to work - at least from the point of view of this full realism pilot who wants a growing full realism community.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Creamo:
And after a set amount of time in "Easy mode" the newbies kill X amount of planes, then get "promoted" to a flight model that they stall into the terrian time after time, or get stall fighted outta Energy into oblivion?
Won't they quit within 10 days because the "rush" and "reward" is replaced by utter and complete frustration of failure?
Where does this promoting of not learning anything by getting used to a "point and shoot" flight model solve anything?
Graduated training. The person is learning shooting,bombing, SA, some strat, the radio, lots of other things while they dont have to learn about trim or whatever. It is easy to forget untily you do some training how much is required to play this game.
It is like the old instructions for Squad Leader vs the Advanced Squad Leader rules. The old rules were abit simpler but they taught you a little at a time as well, so you could gradally move up to the more complex concepts. The Advanced Squad Leader rules where not only more complex but you had to read and digest 70 pages of it befor you got started. While ASL was popular it never got the widespread support out of its hard core market that SL had.
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I flew in that same ACA arena as easymo did for about the same period of time. Not because I enjoyed easymode, but because the HA just cost more money than I could reasonably spend.
Vermillion, when you say easymo could do things in a KI84 in easymode that you couldn't do in FR what specific moves are you talking about? Don't get me wrong, easymo was one deadly mug in WB's in the ACA and in Full Realism. You don't think when you ran into him in the pay arena's he was really using easymode do you? I've talked to mo on RW on several occasions and I know he despised easymode, but he was in the same boat I was.
Lets do a test, I'll download the latest version of WB's if those of you who think easymode gives you advantages, will use easymode in a coalt same planes duel with me.
I'll beat each and every one of ya. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The fight will be over after the merge when I zoom climb higher than you, ride the stall, and ease my guns down onto your walllowing six, then I will patiently follow you down as you try to lose me, but there's no way you can, because I can outturn you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ahhh, the advantages of easymode. NOT. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hblair, I just go by what he told me.
This was way back (about a year ago) when he brought up the "easy mode" issue on AGW, for the first time that I can remember it being brought up.
He explicitily told me one day when we were flying in a beta "main arena" that he was flying on easy mode in a Ki-84.
And no I'm not taking anything away from him or his flying, he's good.
In the other threads EasyMo and Badger both have stated repeatedly that there are advantages to flying in this mode, and I believe them.
As too flying H2H in Warbirds EZ versus Real, it won't prove a thing. I don't fly TnB planes, and never ever duel anyone. So I get killed by raw newbs when I fly like that. I am a blatant BnZ pilot, never engage "without an advantage" type, which I do pretty good at.
But I never, ever "duel" anyone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Cause I stink at it.
This is not a Knightly battle where honor and skill comes to play.... I am the assasin in the night that you never see (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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HB. You are making an apples to oranges argument. Remember we are talking AH cannon. Not WB. I just took up a KI in WB off line game. Im a little rusty, but with a little, gentle, rudder work I can hang on the prop until the speed drops to 75 IAS. Now imagin just hanging there in front of me 7 or 800 yards out. Whith these guns you would die. BTW given time to practice. i can stay there even longer than that, and with a stable gun solution
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Seems like an Easy mode arena would be re-creating the wheel as in WB.
Where's the creativity and imagination? Out for beer pizza I guess. A while back (11/2 years) I joined a cyber squad that required basic ACM's to get "points" for grade/rank. There was no easy mode but the veteran squaddys provided a "calm" session every month so the new people could test their basic skills. Somebody would act a drone for gunnery requirements for example. Since AH has an easy take off mode already I don't see why it should be made any easier than that.
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I too was condemned to easy mode of the ACA in WB whenever the HA was empty... I found the MA a waste of money.
however I found certain maneuvers could be done in ez mode that could not be done in real mode.
In an fw190 I could run for 50 miles flick rolling around in front of a trailing bandit at 3 feet above the ground with no worry of crashing. in RM the same maneuver would bring about a loss of control after too much of that flick nonsense.
High speed bounces in B&Z planes were much easier. there was no thought or care given to trimming the plane so it would be stable.
the only planes that suffered under ez mode was the T&B planes... they simply couldnt pull a full angle of attack the rm was capable of.
but for pure vertical B&z the ez mode reigned supreme.
I still cannot fathom why people payed 2 bucks an hour to be in ez mode when there was a free ACA. I always thought the WB RM was worth 2 bucks an hour but the EZ mode was a jail sentence.
It has advantages (READ: IT IS EASY! DUH) but its so damn unrealistic. It's just a pandora's box.
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True, you could be going a gazillion miles per hour and yank the stick in easy mode with no real repercussions, but your plane in easymode isn't as fast as one being flown in Full Realism, (from what I've read trainers say anyways).
True, you guys make a point about trimming the planes, in easymode it ain't necessary.
But all in all, would you rather run into a 109k at 25,000 ft being flown by a guy in Full Realism, or easymode? I'd rather meet a guy who's flying easymode molasses.
I think when you talk about a plane 'hanging' on the prop in easymode, a plane in Full Realism would either still be climbing, or already nosed over, in other words the dude ain't just 'hanging' there. The top of an immelmann usually isn't a healthy place to hanging anyways. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I don't know, I guess I just don't see any advantage to easymode that outweighs the disadvantages.
I never will forget being a new guy, I started in November of '98 in the ACA. Full Realism was an option at that time in that arena, was until February or March of '99.
There was a fella who flew there in the squad I was in at that time by the handle -zdom- (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). He was the same guy who introduced me to RW way back then.
Anyways, he flew full realism, and tried to talk me into it. I had tried it a few times, and couldn't get used to it, the plane just wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. I thought I had gotten pretty good at dueling in easymode, (LOL) and thought I might be ready for -zdom-. He met me a few times coaltitude, I would do this nifty lil move called an Imellman, (hehe) and before I could tell what the hell was goin' on, he was on my arse, and I woke up in the tower shortly after that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
He explained to me what had happened over roger wilco. His plane, flying in full realism mode had a larger performance threshold than my plane in easymode. While more challenging, his plane depended on him to tell it how far it would be pushed before it would spin, my FE wouldn't let my plane get but so close to the edge.
That was a rude awakening for me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If HTC decides to do the same type of thing with easymode as they did in WB's, you won't hear me complain, although these ideas of a certain amount of time in easymode before you go to full realism sound interesting.
Maybe seperating the arena's would be better.
To sum it up, I don't believe WB's easymode has some kinda secret tricks that certain evil pilots use to outsnicker a smart pilot in full realism.
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HBlair-
I remember a few of our meetings in the ACA... usually in Zekes, and they were the twisty-turny type fights. Always a good time.
That said, I don't think your challenge about dueling EZ/FR will prove much. The part of EZ that is the advantage IMHO is the steadying effect it has on gunnery. I loved when the Corsair rotated into the arena, as it was a "go-fast-and-kill" fighter without comparison.
True, if an EZ flyer tries to turn, he is toast. The easy solution is don't turn.
Is EZ slower than FR? I never saw any proof of it.
All this matters little though. What is important is what HTC decides to do, and how they do it. I am not close-minded enough to think there is no way to mix FR and EZ. I do think HTC needs to exercise great care with the process. My preference would be for separate arenas, but I wouldn't cancel an account over the issue. I'm willing to give anything a fair chance. My opinion of course. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Citabria... you can 'flick roll' in a 190 in Real Mode eternally also. There ARE some things that can only be done in EZ mode, but that's not one of them.
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
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Why everyone talking about arena with easy and normal FM? (cant say it too realistic yet)
I doubt that will ever happen...
Easy mode arenas will be different arenas.
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This is a much saner thread. That said, If it needs to be, let it be. I like the idea of gradual reduction of EZ perks and I like the idea of a separate EZ Academy arena. I would volunteer an hour or 2 of my time each week to help train newbie's given a structure like that. It sounds like fun.
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I think the real issue is how to make a easymode/real mode single arena work. Just because there were flaws in different simms in the past, doesn't mean the same mistakes have to be made again. (Whatever they may have been).
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You guys quit your whining and get back to flying! If, you are really as good as you imply, you will kill these EZ guys with impunity. Everything else is rubbish! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
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Easy mode?? You have to be kidding! Is this for real? The makers are thinking of implementing an Easy Mode and introducing it into the Main Arena? It aint that hard to fly!! It's the tactics and developing a good SA that are really the difficult things to master and which separate the good pilots from the mediocre. I'm pretty new here but am stunned at this information.
Those who fly EM better have some big honkin' training wheel graphics off their plane.
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Look at the date on this thread.
There is no easy mode in the main and AFAIK there are no plans for such a thing.
Don't go getting all upset about something that isn't true.
Lephturn
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So, I start to read the first few posts, sounds like a decent conversation, didn't remember easymode being an issue lately, got to RAMs post, thought to self "RAM is posting as himself again?", got to the point where RAM says "that way isnt mine, so I'll go.", thought of something funny to say to myself about RAM, then looked at the DATES.
DOH!
Still, an interesting conversation dragged up from the bowels of the BBS.
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heh heh. Ooops.
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I stand by what I said in this post. Autotrim is EZ-mode IMHO but not as bad as the "easy mode" in WBs. Had it been like I was fearing it was going to be, I would've packed my things and went out at all.
And is something I still think.
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Think harder RametzASSt.
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If u wanna take away my auto trim R4M gimme a controller which permits quick and easy trim adjustments. cuz I can't afford one
Salvo
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Simple fix to prevent abuse:
You log on and system checks your K/D ratio. If below 1:1, EZ mode is selectable. If above 1:1 EZ mode is unselectable. This allows newbies to get up to speed, but as soon as they become dangerous it forces them to fight like real men.
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Combat trim is NOT Easymode.
There are plenty of experienced pilots here that will tell you combat trim is a disadvantage in many situations. It's not easy mode. All combat trim does is level the playing field a bit between me with my cheap Sidewinder stick, and those with full HOTAS setups. I'm still at a distinct disadvantage, but at least I'm not forced to fly the trim keys to get at least close to what you can get from manual trimming with a good HOTAS setup.
Go 1v1 with a good pilot with combat trim on and off. You'll see that combat trim is not "easymode", and not an advantage. In fact it can hurt you in many situations. If I want to be maximum competitive I disable combat trim when I start the fight and use manual.
Lephturn
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-31-2001).]
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Egads people this thread was started a year ago!
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I vote no for EZ mod would ruin the game.
save it for training areana
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DRILL