Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on March 28, 2002, 12:35:00 PM
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Using Tour 25 as the base:
Using these aircraft as a control base:
P-38L: ENY 30 OBJ 10
P-47D-30: ENY 29 OBJ 10
Spitfire Mk Vb: ENY 30 OBJ 10
I feel that the following aircraft in AH are in particular need of having the ENY/OBJ scores adjusted:
A6M5b: ENY: 25 OBJ: 10 (ENY should probably be raised)
F4U-1: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Fw190F-8: ENY 25 OBJ 10 (ENY should be raised)
Hurricane Mk IIc: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Hurricane Mk IId: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Ki-61-I-KAIc: ENY 18 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised)
Mosquito Mk VI: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
P-47D-11: ENY 18 OBJ 10 (ENY should be raised)
The control group's Kills and Deaths in Tour 25:
The P-38L has 12328 kills and has been killed 14203 times.
The P-47-D30 has 5179 kills and has been killed 6973 times.
The Spitfire V has 13354 kills and has been killed 13280 times.
Now the group that seems to have ENY/OBJ values that are inconsistant with their usage/potency:
The A6M5b has 5419 kills and has been killed 7848 times.
The F4U-1 has 1353 kills and has been killed 1488 times.
The Fw 190F-8 has 714 kills and has been killed 1023 times.
The Hurricane IIC has 1951 kills and has been killed 1532 times.
The Hurricane IID has 247 kills and has been killed 680 times.
The Ki-61 has 1377 kills and has been killed 1088 times.
The Mosquito Mk VI has 2415 kills and has been killed 3902 times.
The P-47D-11 has 829 kills and has been killed 960 times.
The A6M5b is no more capable than the Spitfire V, even taking its carrier capability into consideration. It should probably have an ENY of 30 or 35.
The F4U-1 should probably be set to the same level as the P-38L, ENY 30, due to its capability in combat. It is made rarer by the fact that more modern versions are available. The F4U-1's OBJ should be set to 10. If the C.202's OBJ is 10, then so should just about everything else's.
The Fw190F-8 has the same ENY value as the Fw190A-8, ENY 25, but it lacks the armament options of the Fw190A-8. Its ground strik capability is better than most German aircraft, but still not stunning. I think the Fw190F-8's ENY should be 35.
The Hurricane Mk IIc is the Hurricane contempory of the Spitfire Mk Vb. As the Spitfire Mk Vb has an ENY of 30, I think that the reduced performance of the Hurricane Mk IIc should give it an ENY of 35-40. The Hurricane Mk IIc's OBJ value should be 10.
The Hurricane Mk IId is a specialty tool and is practically useless in air-to-air combat. Its low usage and performance figures should give it an ENY of 45-50. The Hurricane Mk IId's OBJ value should be set to 10.
The Ki-61-I-KAIc has an ENY value at the same level as the P-51D, Fw190D-9 and F4U-1D, ENY 18. Its usage and performance numbers do not come close to the numbers of those fighters. I think that the Ki-61-I-KAIc should have an ENY value of 40.
The Mosquito Mk VI is not as good a fighter or as good at ground attack as the P-38L, ENY 30, and is seen much less frequently. I think that the Mosquito Mk VI should have an ENY value of 35. The Mosquito Mk VI's OBJ value should be set to 10 as it is most definately not bad at ground attack.
The P-47D-11 also has an ENY value at the same level as the P-51D, Fw190D-9 and F4U-1D, ENY 18. Even the more modern P-47s have higher values than that, ENY 29 and ENY 31. I think that the P-47D-11's ENY value should be 35.
Please look at the ENY/OBJ values of these aircraft. The other aircraft are all, more or less, where they should be. These aircraft are seriously out of balance though.
Thanks.
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I'll update values starting with the next tour.
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Originally posted by Pyro
I'll update values starting with the next tour.
Cool! :cool:
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A good example of what kind of post gets HTC's attention.
AKDejaVu
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Thanks Pyro.
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Originally posted by Pyro
I'll update values starting with the next tour.
Wow... just like that.
You go, Karnak. :)
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i also think the Bomber ENY/OBJs need adjusting.
Bomber ENY should to 15 or less, so that they dont
race up ludicrous perks for killing fighters when that
isnt thier job, but right now Fighters get barely nothing
for downing a buff when that is/was 1 of thier main roles.
to compensate id raise Buff OBJ to give them better payoffs
for making the target and bombing it.
whels
Originally posted by Karnak
Using Tour 25 as the base:
Using these aircraft as a control base:
P-38L: ENY 30 OBJ 10
P-47D-30: ENY 29 OBJ 10
Spitfire Mk Vb: ENY 30 OBJ 10
I feel that the following aircraft in AH are in particular need of having the ENY/OBJ scores adjusted:
A6M5b: ENY: 25 OBJ: 10 (ENY should probably be raised)
F4U-1: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Fw190F-8: ENY 25 OBJ 10 (ENY should be raised)
Hurricane Mk IIc: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Hurricane Mk IId: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
Ki-61-I-KAIc: ENY 18 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised)
Mosquito Mk VI: ENY 25 OBJ 25 (ENY should be raised, OBJ should be 10)
P-47D-11: ENY 18 OBJ 10 (ENY should be raised)
The control group's Kills and Deaths in Tour 25:
The P-38L has 12328 kills and has been killed 14203 times.
The P-47-D30 has 5179 kills and has been killed 6973 times.
The Spitfire V has 13354 kills and has been killed 13280 times.
Now the group that seems to have ENY/OBJ values that are inconsistant with their usage/potency:
The A6M5b has 5419 kills and has been killed 7848 times.
The F4U-1 has 1353 kills and has been killed 1488 times.
The Fw 190F-8 has 714 kills and has been killed 1023 times.
The Hurricane IIC has 1951 kills and has been killed 1532 times.
The Hurricane IID has 247 kills and has been killed 680 times.
The Ki-61 has 1377 kills and has been killed 1088 times.
The Mosquito Mk VI has 2415 kills and has been killed 3902 times.
The P-47D-11 has 829 kills and has been killed 960 times.
The A6M5b is no more capable than the Spitfire V, even taking its carrier capability into consideration. It should probably have an ENY of 30 or 35.
The F4U-1 should probably be set to the same level as the P-38L, ENY 30, due to its capability in combat. It is made rarer by the fact that more modern versions are available. The F4U-1's OBJ should be set to 10. If the C.202's OBJ is 10, then so should just about everything else's.
The Fw190F-8 has the same ENY value as the Fw190A-8, ENY 25, but it lacks the armament options of the Fw190A-8. Its ground strik capability is better than most German aircraft, but still not stunning. I think the Fw190F-8's ENY should be 35.
The Hurricane Mk IIc is the Hurricane contempory of the Spitfire Mk Vb. As the Spitfire Mk Vb has an ENY of 30, I think that the reduced performance of the Hurricane Mk IIc should give it an ENY of 35-40. The Hurricane Mk IIc's OBJ value should be 10.
The Hurricane Mk IId is a specialty tool and is practically useless in air-to-air combat. Its low usage and performance figures should give it an ENY of 45-50. The Hurricane Mk IId's OBJ value should be set to 10.
The Ki-61-I-KAIc has an ENY value at the same level as the P-51D, Fw190D-9 and F4U-1D, ENY 18. Its usage and performance numbers do not come close to the numbers of those fighters. I think that the Ki-61-I-KAIc should have an ENY value of 40.
The Mosquito Mk VI is not as good a fighter or as good at ground attack as the P-38L, ENY 30, and is seen much less frequently. I think that the Mosquito Mk VI should have an ENY value of 35. The Mosquito Mk VI's OBJ value should be set to 10 as it is most definately not bad at ground attack.
The P-47D-11 also has an ENY value at the same level as the P-51D, Fw190D-9 and F4U-1D, ENY 18. Even the more modern P-47s have higher values than that, ENY 29 and ENY 31. I think that the P-47D-11's ENY value should be 35.
Please look at the ENY/OBJ values of these aircraft. The other aircraft are all, more or less, where they should be. These aircraft are seriously out of balance though.
Thanks.
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Why lower the OBJ level? The F4U-1 for example has a restricted loadout compared to the F4U-1D and therefore cannot 'gain' as many perks while in the Jabo role. Keep the OBJ levels where they are or raise them please. Jabo'ing is one of my high points and I'd rather have an equal opportunity doing that as I would in the fighter role. Just my thoughts...
oct out
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whels,
I like that idea.
Octavius,
They may be planning on doing something else with the OBJ than I think they are, but the C.202 has an OBJ of 10 and that indicates to me that they intended the better strike aircraft to be able to get more points simply by killing more stuff. Otherwise the C.202 would have a OBJ of 50 so that it could land just as many points for killing ground objects as a P-38L could.
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Originally posted by Octavius
Why lower the OBJ level? The F4U-1 for example has a restricted loadout compared to the F4U-1D and therefore cannot 'gain' as many perks while in the Jabo role. Keep the OBJ levels where they are or raise them please. Jabo'ing is one of my high points and I'd rather have an equal opportunity doing that as I would in the fighter role. Just my thoughts...
oct out
The only downside to increasing the ammount of perk points that can be raised via JABO is milkrunning on undefendable factories (in captured territory). People were racking up literally 100's of perk points a sortie doing this... and they will do the same if the opportunity presents itself again.
JABO should be rewarded... it just shouldn't be at a 5x rate over fighter kills.
AKDejaVu
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good post karnak. Thanks, and thanks pyro.
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Not to suggest raising the OBJ of the Spit V, but why is it the same level as the P-38L and P-47D-30?
P-38L can carry 2000lbs of bombs and 10 rockets, along with 150 rounds of 20mm cannon.
P-47D-30 has 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets, but no 20 mm cannon (tho it does have 8 0.50 calibre MGs)
Spit V can carry 500lbs of bombs, no rockets and has 240 rounds of 20mm cannon.
I know 90 rounds of 20mm doesn't make up for 1500 lbs of bombs (2000 more in the P-47D-30) and 10 HVAR 5" rockets. What's the reasoning there?
:confused:
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Hmmm, shouldn't the OBJ value really be a funtion of the targets defensive value vs the OBJ of the attacker? I.e. destruction of a hanger, surrounded by ACK, far from the nearest friendly base with plane X should net more than destroying a hanger in a small field, close to your base, where the ack has been destroyed.
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Whels is right about bombers. Currently the best way to rack up bomber perkies is to take a ju88 and go tank busting.
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As for the SpitV, the primary reason it has been shot down 13,280 times is that I fly it. If it weren't for me it'd have the same K/D ratio as the F-15
:D :D :D
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Cool, pyro!!
Make the mossie ENY really high so i earn lots of perkies when i fly it:)
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Anyone know the OBJ values for all the ground targets?
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ENY should be based on Kill/Death ratio of the plane, the best measure of how well it does against other fighters.
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Montezuma,
That's not always true. Many people take Spits and A6Ms off of capped airfields and pull the K/D ratios down.
Many people fly P-38s, P-47s, Mossies, Tiffies and 110s as ground strike aircraft and that pulls the K/D down.
Neither of those things is an accurate measure an aircraft's fighter vs. fighter capability.
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Wow I actually agree with Whels.
Lower the buff ENY value and Increase the OBJ value. This would make them get the perks for doing there intended jobs.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That's not always true. Many people take Spits and A6Ms off of capped airfields and pull the K/D ratios down. Many people fly P-38s, P-47s, Mossies, Tiffies and 110s as ground strike aircraft and that pulls the K/D down. Neither of those things is an accurate measure an aircraft's fighter vs. fighter capability.
In the long run, K/D shows how well fighters do against other fighters. The fighters you mentioned all have poor K/Ds because they are slow or have other weaknesses. Except for the Tiffi, which has a great K/D, because it has excellent fighter vs. fighter capability. If getting kills and landing is rewarded under the perk system, the fighters that are better at this should have the lower ENY values.
You have a good point about fighter-bombers, but model vs. model kill stats are mostly independent of jabo related deaths. Someone may get a prox kill on an auger or AAA kill, probably one of the spits or zeros taking off under attack that you mentioned. Dive bombers do go down low in enemy territory, but so do vulchers.
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Good work, Karnak
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How about dynamic ENYs? While bombs are carried lower them by 5.0 per 1000 lbs of bombs?
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Very nice Karnak. I think I learned a lesson here. :cool: