Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pollock on March 29, 2002, 03:34:33 PM
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This was addressed back about a year ago when the Flying Tigers got copied. Now I guess it is the 56th Fighter Groups turn.
I am curious to hear some opinions on this from the community both new and old. Back in the FT post (i think it was Kbmans) I expressed my opinion opposing this.
I think its wrong and shows no class.
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Anybody that uses a historical name cannot very well protest someone's copy of their original(?) name idea.
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Easy for you to say fatty.. you're in a squad where nobody would want to steal your name.
As for the subject... I don't think its all that cut and dry. Its a tough call to tell a squad they'll have to change their name if they want to play in this arena. In that case... some kind of mutual decision needs to be made.
Of course, if this isn't a previously existing squad... I do think its in bad taste to just assume another squad's name. Doubly bad taste if they call themselves the Fat Drunk Bastards.
AKDejaVu
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yawn..........
Well, I asked:
Target
TARGUT
Tahgut
trgt
Oltrgt
trgtdrone
and, well you get the picture.
No biggy, the people in your squad will be able to sort it out. How many families in your town named Smith? In AH they would have to subtly change a small part of their name to be allowed. I think its a non-issue. IMHO of course.
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You have a point fatty, but I think the squads in AH who use the names of true squads do it out of respect, interest or whatever.
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I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying if they came to that name from a historical interest, it stands to reason given such a narrow field like this others are going to come to the same. A lot of times they probably have been using it longer, just didn't start playing aces high as soon.
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There are solutions. The 56thFG in AH shares webpage links with other 56th FGs in other games. http://www1.jump.net/~cs3/56fg.php
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During the height of AirWarrior's popularity (when it was free on AOL, peak daily numbers were in the 1500-1800 range), there were a LOT of what you'd call "copycat squads". In a game such as this, where a lot of squads are going to have historically-based names, can you really complain if someone chooses a squadname similar to one already in existance? Newer players have just as much "right" to pattern their squad after the historical 56th as you guys do (unless you're trying to tell me that you somehow "own" the term "56th").
As long as they're not deliberately trying to mimic an existing group of people (which is already against TOS), I see nothing wrong with it. Live and let live.
J_A_B
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I dont think its a question of owning.
What I think is (since u asked, and i'd tell you anyway even if u didnt :D) is that it is respect for the squadron. Why would anyone form a squadron that is for the exact same purpose as another, without even considering joining the original squad first?
this might in some small way, have to do with the great "gabby gabreski" dying, these other squads forming, but why form another? Why not just join the squadron that exists already?
everyone does have the right to do their own thing. They do pay for the service. But why have 3 squadrons of, for example, the 56th FG, of limited numbers and influence, when you could have 1 MAJOR squadron (with all members of the 3 combined) and be able to exert a major squadron presence at pretty much any time of the day. I have nothing against these guys personally. But why form a squad that already exists???? To my mind, it just doesnt make sense.
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Well, there's always the chance that you might not really want to join a squad full or people who you don't know. Or you might like the name (56th for example) and history of the historical squad but not like the guys in the one aready in said game. There is also the issue of the fact that squads have an upward limit in number of people allowed in.
You agree that "ownership" isn't an issue (which is obvious). How is "respect" an issue? The "new" 56th doesn't in any affect the "old" one; it doesn't make them unable to play AH or affect their ability to have fun and socialize in any way.
If the guys in the "old" 56th feel disrespected, then IMO they need to sit down and think, and come to terms with the fact that in a socially-based game there WILL be people who want to have a similar squad name. There's no ill-will or malice meant by it. I can fully understand why they might indeed feel disrespected, but IMO such a feeling is mis-placed. Once AH grows some more and further increases its player base, this will eventually become a non-issue as people get used to it.
J_A_B
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They could always duel for the name.
Wab
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Let me reiterate that I and only I started this post JAB. It was to see if others felt the same way as I do.
Do not throw in the whole of my squad in your replies. They are all entitled to there opinions as is everyone else in the game.
I think it shows no class to use the same name of an existing squad. I said that long before the 56th FG was duplicated. I will find the older post that I replied to and link it.
My post is not to ridiclule other squads or players. It appears I am in the minority on this thus far.
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Found it. I guess some members shoe the same opinion as me.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7750&highlight=flying+tigers
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Everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose :) In this matter I completely disagree with you. Nothing wrong with that.
J_A_B
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This is the situation I assume Fatty is picturing, and so am I:
John and Peter have always been fans of the Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps.
John joins Aces High and creates squad Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps. He recruits 5 people.
Two years later, Peter joins Aces High with a few friends. The whole time planning on creating squad Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps and pwning the virtual skies.
They find out the name is taken by another group. They check them out, and decide John's group are a bunch of whiner dorks and decide not to join their squad.
Always being a fan of Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps, the name of an elite WWII Luftwaffe group, they see no reason why they can not also use the name, so they create Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps.
John is mad! they "stole" his 100% original squad name (original because he got here first).
He goes to the Aces High BBS and creates a post (wich the new Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps members probably dont even care to visit) and questions Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps #2 morality for stealing his squad name.
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Ive seen several guys take incarnations of the Animal nickname. I dont give a crap, they even probably used the nick long before I did. They didnt blatantly steal it on purpose or chose it out of admiration of me.
If they also wanna hold tribute to Uberwalsbehl Jaeger Corps and create such squad, it is their $15, and there is NOTHING you can do about it other than cry a rive on the BBS.
Its not like the are stealing an original non-historical name, like Fat Drunk Bastards, MOL, Arabian Knights or the always retarded Assassins.
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This is all about common courtesy; if you're going to form a new squad, you don't choose a name that someone else is already using. It doesn't matter if you had the same name in WarBirds, FA, AW, or whatever. In November 2000, Ammo and I decided it would be cool to form an all jug squad named after the 56th FG of WW2 which we both admired a lot. But the squad already existed in Aces High, formed from WarBirds 56th FG members. So the choice was to form a different squad name, or join with the existing squad. Not once did we consider forming up a 56th FG of our own. We talked to Daff who was then CO of the 56th and he said it was okay with him if we took over, since he wasn't flying much in Aces High anyways. We gained 3 experienced squaddies and friends out of the deal: Daff, Snorkey, and Crapgame.
I would hope if someone out there liked flying P-47s and wanted to fly with a squad that emulates the historic 56th FG, that they would consider joining our squad and not start their own. But the fact is I don't have any control over what another squad chooses to call itself. This is a GAME and I prefer not to produce too much excess stomach acid thinking about this issue. :D
In our case, this has become really a non-issue. There is only one 56th FG squad in Aces High. Sure, there's two other one pilot squads with "56th FG" in their names, but these are individuals who don't get much P-47 stick time. I don't how anyone could confuse them with us. I have talked to 56chef and Gabreski of the two other squads and said we would welcome them if they wanted to join with our squad. Neither chose to take me up on this, although the offer remains open. In the mean time I'm sure my squaddies will enjoy hunting them down. :p
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Relax, its just a game.
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I think it's a question of education. When you create your squad, you shall see if a squad with a similar name is already created, and talk it out with it. If you cannot find an agreement then you can always do as it you please.
In the case of the 56thFG, there is the 61FS, 62FS, 63FS (us) ... there is always a way to be different by being more specific. I think it's a lack of identity to have a squad called "the 56thFG" and the other "56 Fighter Group".
What is actually bothering me is a person who takes a famous pilot name, like Gabreski or Agalant. It's not really very respectuous as far as I'm concerned as their ego is probably not alf the skill of the real life counterpart.
I trully like theme squadrons, alas it's not uncomon to have new comers joining AH and getting motivated to create an historic squadron but end up frustrated by the AH learning curve and end up flying Nikis and Spits. Maybe it's me, but when I see kill stats of the JGxx and 75% are in a Spit/Niki/LA7 ... doesn't see right.
Just my 2 cts, no hard feelings anyway.
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/sig-frenchy1.jpg)
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I think its lame. Take a squad name that doesnt exist. I still dont like to see KBMan and AlgyFT having to have "The Original Flying Tigers" on their kills. They are "the" Flying Tigers in this game.
They are better sports then me though.
I think that HT and Co should just have a no duplicate names policy that the owning CO can ask that the other squad name be removed. Period.
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"I think that HT and Co should just have a no duplicate names policy that the owning CO can ask that the other squad name be removed. Period."
Um....there already IS a no-duplicate-name policy. You can make a SIMILAR name, not not a DUPLICATE one.
EDIT: Apparently I was mistaken about this part...oops. Figured squadnames were like handles (no two could be exactly alike). While I see no "moral" issues with identical squadnames, it does seem as though it'd be a bit confusing.
J_A_B
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There is not a "no duplicate names" policy. A core group of the Nightmares came to Aces High in late 2000, and built the Squad up to about 18 or so. When Air Warrior shut it's doors, many of the 32 Nightmares in that Sim wandered over to Aces High and guess what, we had a little numbers problem ;). To get around the problem, the Nightmares set up two wings with EXACTLY the same names, both under the common control of our CO GhstDncr.
So, HiTech does allow the same name for a Squad. My guess is, they want to stay out of these little brush wars that flare up occasionally, because they usually work themselves out :). The 56th FG is a class act, I'm sure this will resolve itself as well.
Cya Up!
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(http://www.platterpus.com/images/36791.jpg)
I think that I'm not the right person to answer this question. :D
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I dont really have an opinion on the issue. If the copy is close enough, I dont think it should be allowed. The squad of which I am a member has a "copy" of its own - Tha Phlying Sirkus or something like that... as far as I can see its only one guy in the squad so it doesnt bother me. :P
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Yup thank god I named it after a rock band (a decent but not that great a band at that)... Seemed apropos to flight sims, so that was good enough for me...and we prolly won't have to face this kind of problem. :)
I've always thought that creating a squad name that's already being used in a sim was in extremely poor taste. But the numbers in the sims I'm talking about never got to the level that they're at now. If you sorta extrapolate up, till yer talking in the thousands, then it gets a bit dicey to justify sole ownership of a historical squad name. Times they are a changin'.
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First come, first served, I think the first squad in here to use a name should get to be the only one to use it, and that includes any subtle variations on the name as well. There are plenty of good historical squads out there that arent taken yet. Either be original and dont use a historical squad, or come up with a historical squad that nobody else is using. I dont really think that HTC should get involved in it, I just think that people that make new squads should make the effort to ensure that they dont duplicate an existing squad.