Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SirLoin on March 31, 2002, 09:13:20 PM
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I didn't see this one coming...How original...Anyone care to guess what is to follow?
Elected politicians have no place in war...The only thing they truly care about is to look good while doing anything/everything to get re-elected...
What happened to diplomacy?...WW1 was supposed to be a lesson in what happens when talks are cut off and armies are mobilized...
Why do we never learn from our mistakes?
Why is hatred so deep rooted?
Why do we disgrace our own race for religion/politics?
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It may be 2002 but we are going backwards in time.
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Quote:
"Elected politicians have no place in war..."
You would prefer a Dictator?????
Quote:
"Why do we never learn from our mistakes?
Why is hatred so deep rooted?
Why do we disgrace our own race for religion/politics? "
Why is there air???
Welcome to reality, son. Same as it ever was...........
Cabby
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"Elected politicians have no place in war..."
"You would prefer a Dictator?????"
No I would not...My point was diplomacy and respected world diplomats(and there have been many good ones...But there there none left) no longer exist.
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Along with Joseph Goebbels and Heinrich Himmlers reincarnation....John Ashcroft head of the SS , Ari Fleischer Minister of Propaganda.
Does the shrubs boot polish have a nice flavor cabby?
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Cabby, you're an prettythang.
Buh-bye.
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Gawd I miss the Big Dawg..
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Wow...Sirloin asked some questions and said
"Anyone care to guess what is to follow."
Cabby does just that, but then it's turns personal against
him, as if Cabby is to blame for the Middle East Crisis.
I thought the idea of the BBS was an exchange of questions
and answers?
Events.
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uuh I've reread cabby's post and I don't see anything that warrants a personal attack.
And Sirloin diplomacy goes both ways. How many more of your people have to die before you stop being diplomatic? (yes yes I know the killing is being done by both sides)
In this case both sides are at fault and there will never be an end till one side is gone.
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Originally posted by weazel
Along with Joseph Goebbels and Heinrich Himmlers reincarnation....John Ashcroft head of the SS , Ari Fleischer Minister of Propaganda.
Does the shrubs boot polish have a nice flavor cabby?
Me thinks we are going to read about Weazel someday in the paper.....and it won't be good. They'll use his first, middle, and surname when they mention him.
Weazel, man..life is way too short for this kinds of feelings.
Cobra
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Opinion of Cabby noted, Thrawn.
So what do you think of Weazel then? :)
(Just trying to keep everyone in the proper column on my spreadsheet.)
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Originally posted by Toad
(Just trying to keep everyone in the proper column on my spreadsheet.)
ROFL... "I have here in my hand, a spreadsheet containint the names of 35 card carrying members.... " I can see it now.
-Sikboy
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Hey, Sik... it's not as easy as it would first appear.
I have a tough time just naming the columns!
For example, do I lump plain old "*ss" with "horses*ss" and "Jack*ss"? Or are those three entirely different?
;)
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Stating that war is not related to politics or politicians is very naive. Politics and politicians are ALWAYS related to war. It has been stated many years ago the war is an extension of politics to the extreme.
In this case (Isreal vs PLO) this situation has been a historical constant and won't go away soon no matter how much negotiating is completed. People are so rooted in hatred over this that it has now become a societal feature of each of their cultures. Another example is the nonsense from what used to be Yugoslavia. Those folks have been after each other for many years and won't stop yet.
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Gotta hand it to ya, Weazel, that was the closest thing to MG we've seen on the boards for some time now... :eek:
I agree with Maverick; war is an extension of politics.
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I think SirLoin's point is why do we always have to go to war to solve problems. In a perfect world, Diplomacy should be the way to resolve all conflicts. But as Cabby pointed out, this ain't a perfect world we live in.
Still, I wish it didn't have to be so. I spent yesterday with my mom looking at pictures of her father, who was killed in WWII a week before she was born. The pictures of my young grandfather as a newly-wed groom and his bride, my grandmother, really gives pause for reflection on the true meaning of war.
Some people forget the human toll that war brings. I wish there was some way to abolish war. But the pragmatist in me know's that's a pipedream.
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My dislike of cabby goes wayyyy back to my days in WB, he started the war then.
Cobra I'll likely never go to N.C., so no reason to see my name in the media. ;)
He doesn't like me either Toad.
Kieran, what other figure in history can you compare a liar like Fleischer to, or someone like Ashcroft?
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I vote for Cabby, Weazel and a few others (MG?) to take this test, HONESTLY ANSWER, then post results.
http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv
FYI:
My scores for all catagories were "Low". No medication either Weazel! ;)
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Kieran, what other figure in history can you compare a liar like Fleischer to
Lets see...hmm...WJC?
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Because I recognize the current administartion as being made up of self serving liars and thugs?
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I vote for Cabby, Weazel and a few others (MG?) to take this test, HONESTLY ANSWER, then post results.
http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv
FYI:
My scores for all catagories were "Low". No medication either Weazel! ;)
Apache, because Clinton was a liar are you saying the current adminstration has the right to be liars too?
I stand by my assertation that the current goons in the White House bear similarities to the thugs from the 3rd Reich:
Ari Fleischer started telling lies the first day as shrubs official mouthpiece.
John Ashcroft has attacked the rights guaranteed us in the Constitution, and none of you seem to care.
Shrub subverted the laws passed due to Watergate and has denied public access to past presidential records.
I don't understand why you people aren't concerned about things like this?
Benjamin Franklin once noted that "those who would trade freedom for
security deserve neither freedom nor security".
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No weazel, I simply answered your question.
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Any post that compares our current administration to the Third Reich is too hyperbolic to consider seriously. I won't do better than that because, frankly, it won't matter what I say, and you will only insinuate I don't care about my country because I don't agree with you.
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Any post that compares our current administration to the Third Reich is too hyperbolic to consider seriously. I won't do better than that because, frankly, it won't matter what I say, and you will only insinuate I don't care about my country because I don't agree with you.
It's not a question of agreeing with me, it's a question of right and wrong, if you support liars and thugs what side are you allied with?
Over 200 years ago, our founding fathers established a Republic to operate as a representative government - a government "For the People, Of the People, and By the People."
A representative government "By the People" requires effective communication between the represented and the representative.
Obviously the current one doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
Think about it.....
(http://www.dsgifts.com/images/30130.jpg)
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I have taken to reading this every day.
*********
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
*************
I'll admit in my recent attempt to become more in tune with the universe and avoid certain things I don't hold in high regard, I just, for the very first time, tried out the ignore list.
Then I remembered what I read each morning and went back and "un-ignored".
I offer this reading to those who may forget that each day is a gift to each of us and that it is indeed "still a beautiful world."
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A beautiful world?
Depends where you're standing I guess... some don't have time to look at the world; they're too busy trying to survive it.
We're just fortunate we have the means to read your last post. ;)
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....oops. Sorry, Dowding I forgot. Been a while since we've both been in the same thread. My mistake. Go ahead and make yourself miserable over things you cannot change. My apologies.
;)
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It's not a question of agreeing with me, it's a question of right and wrong, if you support liars and thugs what side are you allied with?
Thanks for making my point.
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I don't know how many of you noticed. But, the day Sheron was elected, every "expert" on the middle east, predicted that the toejam was about to hit the fan. He is possibly the most despised Israeli in the Arab world. The Israelis's knew this when they elected him. And they didn't give a damn. I am going to risk sounding like some of our Canadian cousins here. The ones that said we brought 9.11 on our selves. But the Jews flat poked a stick into a hornets nest. And they are experiencing the result.
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diplomacy goes both ways. How many more of your people have to die before you stop being diplomatic?
Way I heard it wuz "diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' whislt you pick up a rock."
Seems like diplomacy time is already over... was over when Sharon came to power. Looks like its rock time now.
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Yep. Isaac and Ishmael. This conflict goes way back.
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I don't know how many of you noticed. But, the day Sheron was elected, every "expert" on the middle east, predicted that the toejam was about to hit the fan. He is possibly the most despised Israeli in the Arab world. The Israelis's knew this when they elected him. And they didn't give a damn. I am going to risk sounding like some of our Canadian cousins here. The ones that said we brought 9.11 on our selves. But the Jews flat poked a stick into a hornets nest. And they are experiencing the result.
The election of Sharon was a direct result of the terror attacks,and the unwillingness of the palestinians to negotiate peace.They told them ,if they won`t do something to stop the attacks Sharon will be elected,and all know he`s not diddlying around.They kept blowing jews up,so they got Sharon,and Sharon has them bent over now.
Chamberlain tried to negotiate,but when he failed,a hardheaded conservative(Churchill) was needed to save Britain...and the rest of the world.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Thanks for making my point.
While I respect your intelligence and your profession, I have nothing but contempt for your support of the shrub.
If shrub had ANY honor OR integrity, ANY respect for the office he holds.....OR the American people he would have fired Ari Fleisher for the lies he told his first day in office.
Some of you go on and on about Clinton lying to the public yet turn a blind eye to the current administration when they are guilty of the same....and far worse, allowing Ashcroft to undermine the principles this country was founded on and shrubs undermining the law of the land.
There are "no shades of gray" when it comes to the truth, it's black and white.
A man without honor or integrity has no business being president of the United States.
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No shades of gray, yet you paint with a broad brush weazel.
Define your position. What, specifically, is Ashcroft doing you so abhor?
What dishonor has The President of The United States bestowed upon his office?
Blind eye? Perhaps. Most definetly turn a deaf ear to repetitive rhetoric with no substance.
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My point to you, Weazel, is that we cannot have any exchange of ideas until you peel back the hyperbole a bit. You'll note I have not stated any disagreement with your statements, only the comparisons you drew. I know it is pointless to talk about issues until you calm down some- that is the source of my comment.
I've told you before if Bush can be found guilty of wrongdoing I would want him out. Do you keep forgetting this when you lump me in the "blind support" column?
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Caligula. My recollection is, that Sharon's election was do to Arafat's refusal of the generous offer made by Barak. The Jews did it in a fit of pique. This was like throwing a match into a powder keg. Surely, you are not argueing that Sharon has improved relations. Or somehow cowed the Palistinians
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Originally posted by weazel
A man without honor or integrity has no business being president of the United States.
Correct me if I'm wrong Weazel, but weren't you a rather vociferous supporter of our previous President?
Kieran has it; "if Bush can be found guilty of wrongdoing I would want him out." I feel the same way. Felt the same way about the previous occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania and all those before him.
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The refusal of those offers pretty much means the same as carrying on with the violence.It showed the palestinians will not stop untill Israel is gone completly,and that`s not an option.
What is the point of trying to negotiate with people, who won`t negotiate and just keep blowing your people up.Just wait untill all of Israel`s people are ground up in scuicide attacks?
Sharon is the last choice,and I hope he`ll succeed in making the palestinians reallize their cause is lost if they use terror to achive their goals,and even those goals need to be retought.
Force is used ,but in a way different kind than the arabs would use.I`m yet to see scores of arabs lying dead in Ramalla,and no news of massacres.Sharon IS doing a good job...I hope he`ll keep it up.
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Originally posted by Toad
Correct me if I'm wrong Weazel, but weren't you a rather vociferous supporter of our previous President?
Toad:
Nope, only of his right to privacy in regards to his personal life, that dog won't hunt.
I expect that kind of crap from tumor or cabby...not you. ;)
Apache:
If he had any honor or integrity he would have fired Fleischer the 1st day in office, good ol' Ari has lied again since, yet shrub keeps him as a spokesman, it speaks volumes about l'il georgies character...or lack of I should say.
I shouldn't expect moral character from daddys l'il puppet I suppose.
A man of honor or who values integrity would have fired him on the spot. Too bad shrub has neither.
Didn't he profess to those values when he ran for office, where did they disappear too?
Ashcroft:
How about his statement that the full weight of the US Justice dept would be used to block access to Cheneys records on how the administrations energy policy was arrived at?
Is it a good thing to pervert the Justice Department to protect elected represenatives ass?
I think not.
Nothing there to hide about Enron I'll wager.
How about his willingness to invade Americans private lives without due process?
Doesn't that go against the intent and spirit of the constitution?
Finally how about E.O. 13233?
It seems to be OK to some of you to sweep the past administrations criminal deeds under the Oval Office rug.
Who cares if it circumvents a law written to protect American citizens and government against presidential abuse of power if it protects the criminals who preceeded him, not to mention his own bellybutton when his term is over?
Sheesh, wake up boys and girls...something stinks in Washington, and this time it isn't a democrat.
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You're right of course, Weazel, there is no terrorism in America. No need to investigate anything at all, just go about your regular business.
You're right, Weazel, Clinton had no sycophants doing wrong, the only thing ever done illegal or illicit were his private affairs . Not that it matters, because you're right about one thing, we shouldn't tolerate any wrongdoing. What you haven't proven yet is the wrongdoing.
Sure, you've mentioned many things that should be watched and questioned, but none of them are illegal and nothing has been proven that is. Now this is the point where we keep bringing Clinton up- you were vocal about supporting him. He was every bit of everything you say you detest in Bush, and you appear to be too blind to see it. Even THAT wouldn't matter, except for the vehemence you display not only for Bush but for anyone that doesn't give you anything but unquestioning agreement on your POV.
Call Bush dumb? I suppose comparatively he might be, but he is not the fool he's made out to be. Call his administration criminal? Hmm, odd, Enron seems to have existed before this administration, didn't it? You better look at Congress, and I mean both sides of the aisle, because they would have had more to do with it than this administration. Question his intestinal fortitude on 9/11 (that was an all-time classic), damn, he's following protocol.
Hey, I got my blood pressure up over the election like many others. I thought WJC was a criminal, and you know what? I was right. He WAS proven to have committed a crime (though I suppose you could argue it was major or minor depending on your POV). Did you call for his removal then? If you did, I don't remember. As to the election part, all I could think of when I looked at Gore was "Buddhist Temple", "Lincoln Bedroom", and "campaign fund solicitation on federal property".
Go ahead, detest my "support" of Bush; you're so blinded by your hatred you don't seem capable of understanding what I am saying. To put it bluntly, I am not falling in lockstep with Bush, the Republican party, or YOU. I will not speak out against Bush until I have proof I should. I will not say he is innocent, either, because I don't know. All your vein-pulsing rhetoric will not change that.
One final thought for you, and I'm sure when your head clears you will see it for yourself- the President's powers are limited. There is a Congress and a Supreme Court that are part of the system of "Checks and Balances". If Bush oversteps his bounds, you can be sure he will get stepped on by the Congress, if no one else. Granted, I haven't read the news much lately (damn work hours), but I don't recall hearing anything about such an action. You pleading for us to "wake up" fails to allow for this provision of the Constitution which you feel is threatened.