Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: aknimitz on April 01, 2002, 12:32:50 PM
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For adjusting the ENY values on the planes. For those of you not yet seeing them, here are a few teasers...
P51D - 12
P47-D11 - 36
La5 - 40
SpitV - 20
P38 - 22
Ta-152 costs 20 perks now
F4U-4 costs 50 perks now
Many other planes got changes, but these are a few.
Thanks HTC!
S!
Nim
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P-47D-11 : 36 YES YES!!
Thanks HTC :)
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Let the whining commence! ;)
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Just checked it. Not an April Fools joke.
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P51b 35 ENY...Thank you HiTech!...:)
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Just checked it. Not an April Fools joke.
Just checked it, Thrawn's reply is not an April Fools joke! ;)
Btw P-47D-11 ENY is 40!
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Thanks for getting on that Pyro.
now... I'm curious as to just how big of a difference this will make.
AKDejaVu
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A very nice start
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Oh, no! Now I'll never be able to afford that 262 I was saving up for. :(
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Great changes HT! It will be nice to see some different planes in the MA now. Shouldn't the La-7's eny be changed too? Thx HT!
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now what's an "ENY value" again?
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Originally posted by Exile
now what's an "ENY value" again?
Just a guess, but isn't it how many perk points they cost? Dunno, never use mine... :D
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Eny example: (note, this was when the P51D was 18, its now 12)
Points are awarded for both kills and
damaging and destroying enemy targets.
This in turn is weighted by the type of
plane that you and your opposition are
using. Flying the less popular planes will
get you more points whether you are in
air-to-air or air-to-ground mode.
Likewise, the higher quality the planes of
your opposition, the more points you get
for them. If you shoot down lower
quality planes with higher quality ones,
you don't get much for doing that but
you do get a lot for the exact opposite.
This makes shooting down a perk plane
double rewarding as you deprive
somebody of a perk and get more points for doing it. Also, landing your sortie will apply a 1.25 multiplier
to your perk points.
Examples:
With the values listed above, if you are flying the P-51D (ENY value of 18) and you score a kill on a Panzer
(ENY value of 15), you would receive (18/15) = 1.20 fighter perk points.
Had the Panzer scored the kill on you in the P-51D, he would receive (15/18) = 0.83 vehicle perk points.
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Im still at work.. any changes on the Mossie or 110's ?
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lol, wtf? 51d an ENY of 12?? how'd that come about? ah well, no biggie, but now i'll have to fly like a lamer so as not to give the ganghordes too many perkies when they finally overwhelm me with their mediocrity.
:D
just came back from looking at ENY's...
WTF??? p-51d lower ENY than a fuggen la7?!?!?! that's pretty obscene and totally pooched, while the spit9 and n1k1 are at 10, la7 is at 15??
lol, this is just so wrong. (do i get the WoW?)
:mad:
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Mossie Eny = 40
110 G-2 Eny = 20
110 C-4 = i dunno :)
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man he hooked lots of fish on this one...
:D
Nice job Nimitz
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ENY values? Aren't they merely a factor in the perk point tail chase?
If you don't care about perk points, why would ENY be of ANY interest? A kill's a kill. :)
BTW, has HTC setup a system for selling perks to those of you who actually want some? I got some I'd let go for a decent bottle of Scotch. :D
Seriously though.. for those of you who enjoy that sort of thing.. congratulations! Enjoy!
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Originally posted by fd ski
man he hooked lots of fish on this one...
:D
Nice job Nimitz
I'm curious why you'd possibly think that this was a troll? It may be April 1st, but this is no joke.
Do you think posting anything that's gonna generate some heated discussion is a troll? Why would that be?
D
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The F4U-C went up 2 points. It was 8 before rite? It's now 10. Wasn't seeing much use before, so why raise it?
This is a good start. Probably something to fiddle with somewhat regularly.
D
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Dont understand FD-ski - not a troll. Just thot everyone would like to know.
Nim
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La-5 is going to be my main ride again! Cya Yak!
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It's not a troll ? Heck... then i guess Pyro has been hitting HT's whiskey storage :)
La5 - 40 - why ? Plane is a monster in every respect. At 30 EVY it was a prefered "get perk points" ride. Now, you'd be stupid not to fly it...
SpitV - 20
P38 - 22
Now what's wrong with this picture ?
One of the slowest planes in the planeset, poor climber, short clip, short legs and average roll - against 1945 P38L ? And it's 20 ENV ?
Anyone wants La5 vs Spit 5 duel ? Any doubts to the outcome ? Heck, let's make it 12 vs 12 duel, still LA-5s or P38s will eat spitfires alive.
First Spit14 percked without even a trail period. Now this. What's next ? Spit 9 perked ?
It makes no sense to me, hince i thought it was a troll.
As for lowering perk levels, i'm all for it. Now spit14 still 60, ain't it ?
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Yep, looks like they caved in to the whiners.
HTC seems to have lost all direction with the MA. Is the Perk/ENY system designed for historical play? Or pure game play? Play balance? Perk and ENY values show no common direction except to reduce popularity of planes that many love to fly, and a vocal few like to cry about.
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Guys, as I understand it - it is based in a large part on the number of people flying the planes. Hardly anyone flies the La5, P47D11 - so they get a higher value. TONS of SpitVs, TONS Of P51s (mroe than La7s) - so they get lower values.
Makes perfect sense to me ...
Nim
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Uhm, Funked & Ski, don't you guys remember that the perk point system was designed so that the more rare planes were given high ENY values while the more common ones are given lower values? The late war monsters were to be perked (although there are still a few unperked running amock in the arena... 190D9, 109G10, La7, P51D) while the early war/mid war planes were free but had values placed on them so you could fly the late war planes.
It's not exactly surprising to see the SpitV at such a low ENY, because so many people fly it.
You know what, if you guys didn't want the ENY values to be fugged with, should of been on the side against perking the F4U-1C. That set the precedent, and you all know it.
-SW
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Thnx for the ENY tweaks HT...I like them for the most part,and you know the saying about not being able to please all the people all the time?..This is an excellant example..:)
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The way I see it, changing the ENY is in a sense a "minor perk". It is a way to persuade people to fly lesser flown aircraft without making them actually lose points to do so (though you don't gain as many points if you don't). This is a perfect compromise between perking and non-perking, and I think it is a great idea.
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Uhm, Funked & Ski, don't you guys remember that the perk point system was designed so that the more rare planes were given high ENY values while the more common ones are given lower values?
That's obviously not the case. Incredibly rare planes like the Ta 152H have low perks, while much more common planes like the Spit 14 and Tempest and even the Me 262 are perked highly. And some planes that came out extremely late in the war (P-51D, Fw 190D-9, Bf 109G-10, La-7) are unperked, while earlier planes like the Spit 14 are perked. The ENY values follow much the same pattern. The perk/ENY system clearly has no basis in history.
As far as the -1C, I was all for perking it, assuming HTC had some historical basis for perking. But they have clearly deviated from that. I'm not sure what they are thinking.
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Guys, as I understand it - it is based in a large part on the number of people flying the planes. Hardly anyone flies the La5, P47D11 - so they get a higher value. TONS of SpitVs, TONS Of P51s (mroe than La7s) - so they get lower values.
Makes perfect sense to me ...
So the goal is to get all aircraft to be used equally? There are quite valid reasons why some planes should be more popular than others, which have nothing to do with combat effectiveness. Just look at the demographics. Most people here are from the US or another Allied country. Many of us find it distasteful to fly planes with the markings of the Nazi regime or the wearing the Hinomaru of the butchers of Pearl Harbor. It's therefore only natural that Allied planes will be more popular, just based on demographics. To create some social engineering system to fight this quite natural trend reminds me of some of the idiotic things our government has tried over the years.
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FunkedUp... it seems like some increadibly displaced anger. These are eny values. Do you really think they mean anything?
Save it for something a tad more meaningful.
AKDejaVu
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Who's angry? You wanna see angry, go read the Sicily forum. Hangtime and I did our angry act in there. I'm just wondering what the deal is with the perks/ENY. I was hoping it would be used to create some kind of historical balance, or at least balance the effectiveness of different aircraft. But it seems they are not using it for those purposes.
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Funked- It should of been "don't you guys remember that the perk point system was designed so that the more rare planes in Aces Highwere given high ENY values while the more common ones in Aces High are given lower values?"
And this is a very factual statement, as you will notice the SpitV is much more common in Aces High than the La5FN.
-SW
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I just get that feeling from your posts funkedup... especially when it comes to anything spitfire.
My advice is to sit back and watch. A lower eny will have the same effect as it did before (N1K2?). It matters very little. It seems a small concession to make in the grand scheme of things. Really... ENY doesn't mater at all.
If anything.. this news should be encouraging to Spitfire Mk XIV fans. The Ta 152 was reduced in value because it was too expensive and rarely used as a result. In a year or two... they might reduce the perk cost of the XIV too;)
Oh... and I was 2:0 against Spit XIVs last tour:D
AKDejaVu
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RGR that SW, I understand you now.
I'll look into this. I've learned over the years to not underestimate Pyro and HT. Usually when I ask "Why the hell did they do that?" I find an answer that explains it.
I'll do something nerdy like graph historical production numbers vs. arena usage rates. Knowing those guys it might match up pretty closely, or at least trend towards matching up from one tour to the next as they alter the values.
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The perk/ENY system clearly has no basis in history.
Who ever gave the slightest hint that it ever did?
As far as social engineering goes, what do you think online game design is all about?
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What about the Ar234? Is it still 60?
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Who ever gave the slightest hint that it ever did?
Nobody, it was wishful thinking. :(
As far as social engineering goes, what do you think online game design is all about?
True. I guess I just want you to social-engineer against the things I don't like and social-engineer in favor of things I like. :D
...Thinking of it now as a control problem with a vector of plane usage rates as output and user dweebery as input. Perk/ENY are your feedback gains. That's a complicated system. I guess it's silly for me to pretend to be able to decode your objective function by looking at the gains. Shutting up now. :)
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lower the value of the MkXIV to 25 maybe then the whines will subside a bit.
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"Anyone wants La5 vs Spit 5 duel ? Any doubts to the outcome ? Heck, let's make it 12 vs 12 duel, still LA-5s or P38s will eat spitfires alive. "
vs 38 id bet on the spitv's. Vs la5 id bet on la5.
I dont care much about perks n stuff, but I royally find putting the 38 as such low eny to be a really bad idea. The one ride that cant run from a fight unless its facing an early war plane, the one plane that has its flaps wacked out (and it is completely dependent on its flaps too).. and which locks up controls completely on compression instead of being extremely sluggish (for some weird reason)... and its eny is lower than that of a jug-11?
Whats the reason? 38 being overused? I see far more 190's and 109s of all types than 38s in the MA. And when I do see lots of 38's its either mission planes loaded with ord that see more than half (if not all) of those 38's augering on their dive bomb runs.
When I saw the eny change, I really beleived that if someone was out to gain perks, they sure as hell wouldnt take a 38.. or a P51. I mean, look, the n1k is 10 eny... and in a n1k, any acm challenged fighter ace convert can get himself three times the kills he would get in a 38 in the same time. And not even landing the thing either. Spitv 20 perks.. and yet again a spitV has a far better chance at racking up kills faster per hour than a 38.
If its for population control, I got news... they will use it even if the ENY is 0. They will still take n1ks up , still take spits up, still take whatever ride they want up. The only real population control is the perked planes. Try perking the 51D at 2 perks and see just how many Dponies are up in the next few weeks when compares with pre-perking time. Heck it worked for the CHOG didnt it? Note: I aint saying the 51D should be perked, just saying its got an earlier version of itself and it rarely gets used while theres a LOT of 51D's out there.
In my opinion, perks should only be awarded if you land the plane or ditch it in friendly territory. Bailing out or dying dont count. I bet that will seriously control the population of the powerplanes for those that fly them to gain perks by quaking the whole time. Those who dont fly them for perks... dont get perks and later on face those that did. Its a balance thingy.. quake or perks. And I cant even start to think what would happen if all but the early war planes/variants get perked to 1 or 2 perk costs... it worked wonders in the earlier CT setups, very ,very cool.
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You know...I've only gotten a few hours in since patch 2, but I have yet to see a spit14...
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ENY P47d-11.... on my screen I swear it said 40!! +)
Perks are much easier to earn now IMO. Especially with all the spits and 51's running around +)
SKurj
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Could Pyro or HiTech explain the logic behind ENYs?
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Come on Funked and FdSki....
I know you guys are big time Spitfire fans, but you knew the XIV was going to be perked, and perked fairly high. Hell, if the F4U-4 was perked at 60, I actually expected alot worse. The plane is a beast. Fast as a G10, but turns like a Spit IX, with the hispanos of death ;) And your surprised??? Come on guys, I know you better. I thought you would be happy with whats the most effective Spit XIV introduced to online gaming yet. Much more deadly than the WB's version of it.
Tac, more 190's and 109's than P-38's? Only if you count them all together. In AKDejavu's score pages, in the tour before the one we just finished, wasn't the P-38 the number 5 plane in usage? Its quite common now with the more... errr ummmm.... robust !?!? .... damage model.
And for all those complaining about the Spit V coming down from its ENY value of 30 .... ***RASBERRIES*** !!! ;)
You guys been milking that freebie cow for way too long now.
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Verm, i'm lucky if I manage to log in 20 sorties in the month in AH. Right now i have 300 perk points (something in that range )
Moment I lose them, I can't fly spitfire XIV till I "earn" it.
If I want to earn it in other planes I like, and let's for the moment assume that those are Spit 9 and 5 ) then i'm in ENV area with P51s and LA7s and it will take me a really long time.... especially seeing as they are some of the slowest planes in the plane set....
Each time that low level perk idea for late war planes is suggested, you'll see 17 post of "If P51D is perked at any perk, I quit, it is my favorite plane, and I earn it by paying 14.95 per month"
Why is it that same logic doesn't apply to all planes ?
If Spitfire XIV did 400 mph on the deck, I'd be the first one to suggest perking it, but as it stands, there are at least 5 unperked planes in the set which can easily run it down, at least 2 that can climb with it, and most of them with comparable guns.
So it turns well... oh gee... like it really matters at 350 mph...
Same people who post those "stupid turning Spitfire dweebs, they should learn to B&Z like me..." stuff are the ones who complain about Spitfire's ability to turn too well... irony of it all...
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Oh, no! Now I'll never be able to afford that 262 I was saving up for. :(
-- Todd/Leviathn
Hah! Like you were gonna get one by killin' me in my Hurri anyway! :p
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Verm, I do see far more 109s and 190s EACH than I see 38s out there.
Usage of the plane only shows how many people are jabo'ing in it. From what ive seen in the MA, only 2 out of 10 38s I see in 1 day are actually up there to dogfight, the other 8 are dive bombing or going kamikaze over and over. Heck, I even saw one guy come over to A24 in ndisles over 6 times and go kamikaze on the VH..missing it every time :rolleyes:
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kills in kills of
A6M5b 6 20
Ar 234 0 5
B-17G 10 25
B-26B 7 20
Bf 109E-4 0 5
Bf 109F-4 0 2
Bf 109G-10 8 16
Bf 109G-2 0 4
Bf 109G-6 2 4
Bf 110C-4b 0 8
Bf 110G-2 16 35
C-47A 2 37
C.202 0 1
C.205 8 9
Chute 0 0
F4U-1 0 4
F4U-1C 33 9
F4U-1D 4 28
F4U-4 0 0
F6F-5 10 48
Fw 190A-5 0 5
Fw 190A-8 3 7
Fw 190D-9 0 13
Fw 190F-8 0 1
Gunner 0 1
Hurricane IIC 147 6
Hurricane IID 0 1
Hurricane Mk I 1 6
Il-2 4 12
Ju 88 3 4
Ki-61 0 3
Ki-67 2 5
La-5FN 0 3
La-7 6 30
Lancaster III 5 39
LVTA2 1 1
LVTA4 0 1
M-16 1 14
M-3 2 26
M-8 4 3
Me 262 37 1
Mosquito Mk VI 4 4
N1K2 0 56
Ostwind 123 54
P-38L 5 74
P-47-D25 69 10
P-47-D30 63 17
P-47D-11 5 1
P-51B 16 5
P-51D 10 59
Panzer IV H 58 42
PT Boat 67 176
SeaFire 4 26
Ship Gunner 204 0
Spitfire Mk I 0 3
Spitfire Mk IX 2 86
Spitfire Mk XIV 3 1
Spitfire V 51 36
Ta 152H 0 0
TBM-3 0 13
Tempest 4 0
Typhoon IB 164 37
Yak-9T 6 5
Yak-9U 0 13
As to what killed me the most (fighters) the P38 was 3rd on my score list for tour 26. Spit IX at 30, Typh at 27, and 38l at 25...
You sure you mean the MA Tac?
SKurj
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FDSki...Funky...could it be a conspiracy?
How does this change your game FD? You only want to fly the
spits..up untill now you had nothing to spend your perkies on and now you do.Isnt that an improvement in the game from your stand point? Unless you plan on loosing every spitxiv you take up why worry? Get her to 18k and nothing much can touch you. the only things that can catch you are meat to your zoom climb and turn..
Doesnt get much better for a Spit pilot from what I can see...
Unless your a total whiner.....
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Think its a when and where you fly thing skurj. I haven't seen many P-38s either. And I had as many kills on all 190s as I had on all Spitfires.
I've seen a suprising amount of LW steel in the air this tour. Alot of 110s, alot of G-10s and alot of 190s (all flavors).
But then... maybe its just that I'll go out of my way to shoot down any LW ride I see.
AKDejaVu
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I only shot down 20 38's last tour. Who the heck are you killing? The banzai 38's as they are en-route? :)
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i only shot down 24 p38's last tour (a few flown by some dweeb named "lazerr" or something :D ) and only died to them 7 times.
16-3 in a pony vs 38dweebs, 6-1 in a spit vs them. i must admit i did something stupid to let myself get cherrypicked by one while in a spit14 :eek:
hmm maybe i should start flying 38's again for chits and giggles.