Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -towd_ on January 27, 2000, 08:49:00 AM
-
Howdy just got back from a short vacation, and am suprised that we have so many aircraft and still no 38 ( 47 occured to me also) these were the and i mean the planes to me from ww2 (late war super fighters YAWN imho) can u please for once give up the "no when" statements and tell me (and the community) what the time line is for these 2 greatly needed planes.
and yes i said needed, since yall havent managed to create the ground attack side of the game .i.e land vehicals and ground targets that are not protected by (vulcan guns with radar guidence and endless ammo and magic unburnoutable barrels TM) thus making your existing (static) land targets almost invunerable to fighter attack (if your planin on livin) where are the tanks? where are the trains? (if there ever were to be trains). we need airplanes that we love and my personal love affair is with 38 not the late war stuff that is so prevailent as it stands now ( give me 1939 airplane that was still in production in may45.)
now i realize this is your baby but it seems like you are doin some things simmilar now to the way brand w did. puttin out the planes and features you want when you want. i present your obtuse behavior on the subject of the 38, i and several others have continuously asked for any info on this plane and have been given almost nothing (pyro made a statement once online that he had a directive or order from hitech on it but wouldent say more). so now that you are about to start chargin tell me when a close estimate is fine.
towd
-
The "D" ???? P-47 "M" please!
(http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9485/P-47M.jpg)
--Westy
-
Yes, yes, the "M"!
And here are the best reasons!
1) Nobody else has it
2) It's the only model that'd be competitive in this arena
3) It's the only model that could possible stand up to the Otto-Cyborg/AckMaster mk1.
4) 8 .50's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
5) Tons of bombs, and rockets (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Those are the first 5 I could think of right off the top of my head, anyone else? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
-
Hmmm. P47-M.....
1. They could chase down the 190-D9, TA-152, DO-335 and make an ME-262 pilot poop a hefty weinerschnitzel! If there was a P-47M we would have to have these aircraft too.
2. They would make chew toys of the F4U-1C!
3. A Runstang couldn't!!!!
4. The 56th FG had awesome camo jobs for them! http://www.tholianweb.com/cgi-bin/decals.pl?scale=48&setid=015&dbs=aeromaster&pgs=2&currpg=1&dclimg=ad48015 (http://www.tholianweb.com/cgi-bin/decals.pl?scale=48&setid=015&dbs=aeromaster&pgs=2&currpg=1&dclimg=ad48015)
(note the bottom P-47M with the kill mark below the canopy)
-Westy
-
"A Runstang couldn't!"
I love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Some other things:
1) About 200 or so saw combat (same as F4u-1C)
2) Faster n' all beat hell (including a bat out of)
3) Tougher n' a brick toejamhouse
4) Heavier n' a brick toejamhouse
5) It'd be the only plane able to take 1/2 a second to a second of fire from that F4U-1C and the rest of the 4x20mm beasties (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Have a nice day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited 01-27-2000).]
-
They could chase down the 190-D9, TA-152, DO-335 and make an ME-262 pilot poop a hefty weinerschnitzel!
Look out Curly, this one wasn't bad! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Hey, guys, the 'M'??? This kind of goes against the grain of TOWD's original post, since the P-47M is yet another uberbird. I agree with TOWD, 38J & 47D.
------------------
leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
-
Since when was the P-47D not as competitive as Fw 190A-8 in WB? Given that that's even a rough approximation what would/could be in AH, IMO the P47D would be pretty good.
//fats
-
We need the 38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
+Jase ^Nomads^ AH
Fly-Nomadic
-
Fats,
That was in WB's man, not Aces Hight. The 190 A-8 is competitive in here because *yipe!* it's properly modeled, and with those big 4 cannon, she can do some damage.
If they model the 47D like it's supposed to be, it could be competitive, but with all these tight turning, cannon swinging late wars, she'd be kinda lost (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
We need the M to give it a lil' more "oomph" and up to speed. She won't be able to turn, but good god, she has 3,000 horses. It'll probly be a very tricky plane to fly, but I've been flyin jugs in brand W for 2 years, so I'm up for it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
-
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Westy,
Read your post while drinking some chocolate milk.. Laughed so hard .. shot it out my nose!
Gorf
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Fats, I agree w/ you. The p47D is VERY competitive in WB. I remember a couple of years ago in a Weekend Warrior. T2(tagert) and myself were grabbing alt in p47D's, when we got bounced by 7 190's from about 5,000 above us, we were at about 15k or so. Well after about 5 minutes of turning, we killed 5 of the 190's and sent the other 2 home smoking.
I personaly hope we get the D model, it's more of a challenge to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) that's where the fun is for me...
udie
-
Sounds like you're looking for a pair of crutches Rebel!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hehe, just bein' cheeky.
Fen
-
No.
I just want an uber-jug (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Seriously, I wouldn't mind flyin the D, but the M....ohmagod.
And who the hell said crutches were a bad thing? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
-
As much as I'd like to fly the Jug and the FTD, I'd like to see some more non-US fighters first. Right now the planeset is already distorted in the Pro-US direction.
And it's not like adding the Jug and the FTD would add any capability beyond what the Pony and Hog can do. The P-38L adds some climb, and the Jug adds some speed at very high altitudes. The Hog and Pony are superior in all other air-to-air or air-to-mud areas of performance.
I realize I'm thinking in terms of scenario matchups here. Yes I'm biased that way. If AH doesn't have a lot of scenarios I'll be leaving anyways.
-
"TA-152, DO-335 and make an ME-262 pilot poop a hefty weinerschnitzel! "
Well wrong on the 152 and 335, but the 262 would be in big trouble above 25k or so. The 262 would actually have a bigger advantage on the M at sea level. Up high you can't do much better than a turbosupercharged R-2800. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
I'm for the P-47C or P-47D, either would be a great addition to the current planeset...
Add them... before more uberdweebness...
Regards,
DoctorYO
-
Rebel,
To me the P-47D has better guns and gunsight than Fw 190A-8. They aren't more lethal per 1 second of sustained hits, but they are otherwise better. Both of the planes are forced to a rather restricted style of flying where aircraft performance has very little to do wether you kill or not, it's all about how useable your guns are and how good you hit with them.
ACM is over rated. It's just a scam to get people concentrate their efforts into something that hasn't ever killed anyone. Become a top notch shot if you want to kill stuff. Sure you gotta be able to maneuver your plane some, but with a plane that has serious ammount of whop bellybutton it's all about ending the fight before it even has really begun.
I beat AlleyCat in a 1-v-1 many times in WB with Fw 190A-4 against P-38J for example. How? I killed him right after merge, not much ACM eh? I am sure he's still better stick than I am, regardless of the out come.
Well my observations are based on pre2.7 WB, or which ever was the version that 'fixed' the gunnery and I started to fly with a squad name of 'Fix the MG 151/20 please!' or some such. After no progress in that area I quit WB - no idea of the current state of affairs.
//fats
-
the real justification of the 38 is, to me its radical design differenes from other ac. with a almost total lack of torq the 38 is a ride of a different color that all the rest ( the heavyest single seat fighter of the war that could turn with a zeke, the l version under favorable circumstances) i want to learn it under this (in my opinion improved) flight model.
-
The 38 is also one beautiful bird, and saw combat in *significant* (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) numbers.
Like towd, I look forward to learning and flying it in this excellent sim, with its flight model and graphics.
> I realize I'm thinking in terms of scenario matchups here. Yes I'm biased that way. If AH doesn't have a lot of scenarios I'll be leaving anyways.
I want to throw some money at them to help them stay solvent and succeed, so I'll be staying for even a few scenarios. I like getting shot down in more historical circumstances, so I'm mostly off helping the WB (well, and DoA) pilots improve their scores and practicing offline.
-
<<To me the P-47D has better guns and gunsight than Fw 190A-8. They aren't more lethal per 1 second of sustained hits, but they are otherwise better.>>
Why yes. Yes they are. Finally we have a gunnery model that allows for the "wall of lead" that the Jug was so famous for. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<<ACM is over rated>>
I have to agree with you 150% here. Gnerally all fights are won or lost in the merge (or lack thereof). Simple immelman/cuban 's with the bogey on your lift vector. Put the target on your 3-9 line, pull back, and it's all over.
<<I killed him right after merge, not much ACM eh?>>
See above (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<<Well my observations are based on pre2.7 WB, or which ever was the version that 'fixed' the gunnery and I started to fly with a squad name of 'Fix the MG 151/20 please!' or some such. After no progress in that area I quit WB - no idea of the current state of affairs.>>
And here is where you lost the most important stage in WB's. They lied to us about dispersion modeling. They lied to us about the new gunnery model. And with every release since then, the Jug has been cut back more and more and more. The Jug has been so badly mismodled right now, I could cry.
The main reason that I'm asking for the M is that in EVERY ww2 sim, she's come across some 50 knots slower, and underpowered (which means she don't zoom like she used to, probably the most important aspect of a fight in a Jug).
I'm asking for the M because then maybe, with that much power under her RL hood, she'll come back as a properly modeled aircraft.
And no, I'm not looking for crutches, I'm not trying to be a 'Dweeb', I'm just trying to give the Jug a fair shake. She was competitive in 2.0-2.5 . She was. But after 2.6, they did something to her over there, and the scars are readily apparent.
Don't get me wrong, I'll thank Pyro and crew for ANY Jug (they ARE Thunderbolts ya know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ), I'd just like to see the 'M' modeled. This bird is my fave ride (even tho she's been cut in brand W), and I fly her all the time. (I even get in trouble with my squad leaders for doing it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Have a nice day.
------------------
-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
-
P-47M "sprint" Thunderbolt
The P-47M was a special high-speed version of the Thunderbolt specifically evolved to counter the Fieseler Fi 103 (V-1) buzz bomb and the new jet- and rocket-powered fighters that were entering service with the Luftwaffe. Four P-47D-27-RE airframes (serials 42-27385/27388) were taken off the production line at Farmingdale and fitted with the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57(C) engine equipped with a larger CH-5 turbosupercharger. This new engine offered a war emergency power of 2800 hp at 32,500 feet with water injection. Air brakes were fitted underneath the wings to aid in deceleration during dives. These four converted P-47Ds were redesignated YP-47M.
This new engine installation was ordered into production in September 1944 for the last 130 P-47D-30-RE aircraft delivered by Farmingdale, the aircraft being subsequently redesignated P-47M-1-RE. The serial numbers of the 130 P-47M-1-RE Thunderbolts built were 44-21108/21237.
The first P-47M was delivered in December 1944, and they were rushed to the 56th Fighter Group in Europe. However, engine problems delayed their use until the last few weeks of the war in Europe. Underwing racks were not fitted, as the P-47M was meant to be operated strictly as a fighter.
Performance of the P-47M-1-RE included a maximum speed of 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 470 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3500 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2650 feet per minute at 20,000 feet. Range (clean) was 560 miles at 10,000 feet. Armament was six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns with 267 or 425 rpg. Weights were 10,432 pounds empty, 13,275 pounds normal loaded, and 15,500 pounds maximum. Dimension were wingspan 40 feet 9 3/8 inches, length 36 feet 4 inches, height 14 feet 7 inches, and wing area 308 square feet.
------------------
jochen
Geschwaderkommodore
Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) (Warbirds)
If you ever get across the sea to England,
Then maybe at the closing of the day
The bars will all be serving German lager
Which means we won the war - hip hip hooray!
-
> ... the 130 P-47M-1-RE Thunderbolts built ... engine problems delayed their use until the last few weeks of the war in Europe.
I sure wish we could have more "mainstream" aircraft that were fielded in more significant numbers and made more significant contributions before we get off on these more historically less significant variants. That's also my main disappointment about the scads of F4U-1C's in the game. Definitely makes it feel more like a game. I've been spending less time over here in AH, but I'm hoping that "historical" scenarios will help.
Not meant as a whine, but as a wish/request.
-
Hmmm....no wing racks.
I'd normally fly a Jug as a fighter in WB's, and people would call me crazy, but nuthin can haul iron like the D.
*shrugs*
Maybe it'll be the D after all....it'd be more useful. Hell, I don't care, just as long as I get those lovely 8 .50s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Seemed like this sim was headed for the "exotics" and the "lesser knowns" so I thought I'd throw my bid in. How about the N, guys? hehehe
------------------
-Rebel
"With a Rebel yell!"
-
You GO Rebel!!! Thanks for carrying the banner so well.
Jochen. your reference is just a bit in error in reality the P47-M was not brought out to counter the V1. The P47-M was ready well before the V1 even launched. The P-47M was specifically brought about because Republic wanted to stay competative with the P-51 and P-38 so they had to increase horsepower and speed. They also kept in mind it would do the role of countering the faster, buff killing FW-190's being encountered.
Heck. When the 56th Fighter Group got thier planes and then found out the P-47M had been ready for a YEAR there were alot of pissed off fighter pilots and wing CO's because they could have used those aircraft long before they actually got them. That was just one of the many goofs the Allies made too in regard to aircraft production and introduction. All the blunders weren't soley Hitlers (ie ME-262 bomber, no fighter, no bomber. Or not letting Kurt Tank to make his D9 earlier when he could have.)
Now the P-47N was specifically designed to keep the P-47M's performance but add an enourmous amount of range to it so that once again Republic would not lose orders of it's aircraft to North American because of the P-51's great range. The P-47N was used wholly in the Pacific escorting B-29's.
So a P-47M or even a P-47N would make me one helluva happy camper indeed! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Here's me (in dream land) converging my eight .50's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ....
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/P-47N-318FG.JPG)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-28-2000).]
-
Well, here I am again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Pyro and HT I'm sure have an "image" for our lovely little arena, and I KNOW It'll include the Jug in one form or another. I just hope and pray that they'll choose the right one for what they want. (Hint...correct answer is M guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
But seriously, I know we ain't the only 2 Jug buffs in here, so all you Jug drivers out there, step up!
P.S.- You're welcome Westy. Nice to have a fellow Jug driver since -Vics- Left me out in the cold to fend for myself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-Rebel
"With a Rebel yell!"
[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited 01-28-2000).]
-
I will fly anything and everything, so add me to the list. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
"The main reason that I'm asking for the M is that in EVERY ww2 sim, she's come across some 50 knots slower, and underpowered (which means she don't zoom like she used to, probably the most important aspect of a fight in a Jug)."
That's not true of the WB D and you know it, ya bastich! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There's something "up" with the WB drag model though. Climb rates show the Fw 190A and P-47D to have the right power:weight ratio but neither can use their historical zoom advantage over planes like the Spitfire Mk IX and Me 109.
We should ask for the M because it's COOL!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-28-2000).]
-
Ssssssh Funked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
You know the drag model is what I meant (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-Rebel
"With a Rebel yell!"
-
Originally posted by -towd_:
we need airplanes that we love and my personal love affair is with 38 not the late war stuff that is so prevailent as it stands now ( give me 1939 airplane that was still in production in may45.)
I Have to say that I am against P-38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Btw. that your '39 plane wasn't the same one at '45...
Weren't '39 version XP-38 (X.. see the X)
P-38F, P-38J, P-38L..
Go compare F and L with each other, lots of difference (hydraulics, engines....)
Lots of planes were done before '40s, but they changed really much during the years.
Ie. B-17A was quite much different from B-17G (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But P-47M? we need Ta-152 or late Dora to come up with that, do you realise that its faster than stang?
P-47D would go with current settings though.
-
"But P-47M? we need Ta-152 or late Dora to come up with that, do you realise that its faster than stang?"
Yes. I personally would not want to see a P47-M without the TA-152 or Dora released at the same time. Although it would be fun to run down Mustangs at 25K being the M and N were ~40+mph faster (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Westy
-
Westy said it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Okay, I admit it. I'm a Jug-dweeb. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Westy, when the heck do you fly? We're gonna HAVE to get together on this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-Rebel
"With a Rebel yell!"
[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited 01-28-2000).]
-
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Whenever the little guy goes to sleep early and the wife doesn't have any plans for us. A few times a week usually. When the good weather comes usually even less - I live up by Boston , Ma. I've got a montrous 'honey do' list on a fixer upper of a house.
But I've been starting to look folks up on the roster when I do log on. Some to fly with some to try and fly against. I'll be sure to look for Rebel and catch up with you. Even more so when the Jug does appear!
[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 01-28-2000).]
-
Hell yes!
The only thing more dangerous the one P-47M is two winging together (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Look forward to it buddy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-Rebel
"With a Rebel yell!"
-
Westy,
Were you get those P47 pics.. very nice!
Gorf
-
Right here Gorf,
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html (http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html)
There is a series called the "Cradle of Liberty" which gives the history of Republic with the P-47 having a predominant part of the story.
Further down the list of articles is one specifically on the P-47 M.
CC Jordans' site is my favorite on the web.
I wish he could get some good input or collaboration from other historical writers of different nationalities.
-Westy