Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on April 05, 2002, 10:39:31 AM
-
So, where do our Italian friends of AH stand on this issue? Anyone here over the age of 18 still hanging on to the apron strings of their mother? ;)
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20020405_116.html
ROME (Reuters) - In a ruling that has sent a shiver down many
parents' spines, Italy's highest appeals court has decreed that
fathers must carry on supporting adult children until they find a
job to their liking.
Psychologists warned that the decision could discourage people
from having children in a country whose birthrate is already one
of the lowest in the world, while commentators said it could
boost Italy's already high unemployment rate.
The case revolves around a wealthy family in the southern city
of Naples, where the father is still paying some $680 a month in
maintenance to a son who is in his 30s and has a university law
degree.
The son also has a trust fund worth some $220,000, lives in one of the smartest parts of the
city, and has turned down several job offers.
But the court ruled that the father, Giuseppe Andreoli, who is a former parliamentarian and a
respected Neapolitan medic, should carry on supporting his estranged son. "You cannot blame a
young person, particularly from a well-off family, who refuses a job that does not fit his
aspirations. The parents have to pay for their upkeep," said the court in a verdict handed down
earlier this week.
Andreoli said on Friday he was shocked by the decision.
"I feel disgust for a country that I love. It wasn't always like this," he told Reuters.
"MUMMY'S BOYS"
The ruling struck a chord in Italy where almost one in three people aged between 30 and 34 still
live with their parents, preferring home comforts and mothers' cooking to the challenge of striking
out alone.
"This decision sets a dangerous precedent," said psychologist Gianna Schelotto. "Up until the
1980s, young people wanted emancipation from their families even if it meant going out and
cleaning dishes. Today, 30-year-olds still feel young and aren't prepared to make sacrifices."
The growing reluctance to cut the apron strings has coincided with a falling birthrate, now put at
less than 1.2 children per woman -- the lowest level in Italian history.
"Italy is faced by a deep cultural problem. Young people enjoy a great quality of life and
enormous freedom by staying at home. Without enormous incentives, why should they leave?"
said Riccardo Grassi, who works for the Milan IARD research institute which specializes in
youth issues.
The problem is compounded by the fact that it often takes years to complete a university degree
in Italy, graduates' starting salaries tend to be low and, unlike elsewhere in Europe, the
government offers little financial help to young parents. Labor Minister Roberto Maroni said on
Thursday he was drafting a bill to offer tax cuts to newly-weds with an eye to boosting the
birthrate.
But social commentators said the appeals' court ruling went in the opposite direction and would
encourage children to stay at home rather than go out and find a job or start a family.
"Without seeking to, this (ruling) represents a pernicious obstacle to matrimony, which is
essential to an ordered society and to the reproduction of the race," Rome's Il Messaggero
newspaper thundered on Friday.
-
Saw some moronic tv report on this subject awile ago.
seemed to me like they was tryin to make somethin outta nothin. ..and I bet you'd still be livin at home if yah had no wife, and yer ma was willin to wait on yah hand and foot. most american men marry their mom's young clones and carry on the same way italians do... or would if they could, and squeak about it if they don't.
-
this is f*k nuts :(
-
This is why we came over ona da boat.:D
-
Wow... I waited till last year (when I was about to turn 27, sorry not Italian btw) to move out of my parents home into my own apartment. And I thought I was late.
I had been under the impression that most of you folks living on the mainland made your kids go on alone after high school graduation. Folks here seem to be more sheltering (possibly an asian thing, dunno) and don't mind their kids hanging around till their 30s. I had always planned to leave as soon as I thought I could buy my own place because my parent's apartment is actually too small for 4 adults, I figured I'd lessen the burden on them, and my younger brother isn't even close to being able to move out (not due to age, but more due to... priorities? habits?).
To have parents choose to let their kids stay is one thing, but having your government tell you that you have to is kinda going too far. Oh well...
mauser
-
Yeah, I've seen crap like this about the cult of the mammone both here and in Italy.
There's a huge cultural difference here folks, and it goes back to as long as we have records of it (roughly 900 years for those of you scoring at home).
Thee are plenty of explanations we can give (such as the difference in cost for constructing a peasant dwelling), but the net result is that NW Europe and S Europe have different concepts of family, different marriage patterns, and different habits with respect to residence.
It's not simply that Italians today are finding it more comfortable to stay at home than go out in the world. It's always been that way, and the society itself is structured around this being the norm. Why do you think salaries for people in their twenties are so low? Because they're expected to stay at home.
-
at 16 you give them a key to the house ....
at 18 you change the locks :)
-
brake their dinner plate at 18 (ok you can let them finish highschool first).
i graduated highschool on a thursday and was moving into my own apartment on the following monday.
my little brother did the permanent teenager thing till he was 30. I never could understand it, I'd rather be broke under my own roof than comfortable under someone elses.
-
Pansies...I left when I was 17.
-
IIRC you can be held responsible for an indigent adult child here in the States. For instance you may be held liable for public assistance money.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Pansies...I left when I was 17.
Same, then 6 months later I moved 1700 miles away from the nearest relative..with $100 and a suitcase full of clothes.
-
That really is a strange culture. I couldn't imagine living at home as an adult.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Same, then 6 months later I moved 1700 miles away from the nearest relative..with $100 and a suitcase full of clothes.
rip you forgot to add "and now I drive a BMW!" :D
-
Nifty, FYI: I hated BMW for years, always thought of it as a "status symbol" for yuppies (Understand that I'm a country boy-red neck type)...then a friend dropped by one week-end and left his "yuppie-mobile" in my driveway with the keys while he borrowed my truck for moving some crap...the rest is history.. :)
-
Originally posted by mauser
Folks here seem to be more sheltering (possibly an asian thing, dunno) and don't mind their kids hanging around till their 30s
Yeah no watermelon Mauser, I was amazed at how many houses in Hawaii have like 10 cars parked in front and 3 generations living inside. I dunno how they do it. I left home at 17 and never looked back. I couldn't imagine anyone staying at home until 30. My kids have both been forewarned...18 and out. They can go to college, but it's going to be one that's out of town ;)
-
Originally posted by Raubvogel
Yeah no watermelon Mauser, I was amazed at how many houses in Hawaii have like 10 cars parked in front and 3 generations living inside. I dunno how they do it. I left home at 17 and never looked back. I couldn't imagine anyone staying at home until 30. My kids have both been forewarned...18 and out. They can go to college, but it's going to be one that's out of town ;)
Raub, I have Mutual funds set up for both my kids, I call it "Guilt Money", so when they 18, they get a load of cash, and a boot out the door! Hell, I won't even be around, soon as the youngest graduates highschool, we're moving to Montana...there is not alot to do at a cabin, 7,000 feet in the Gravely Mtn range, and definately not a woman within 20 miles of the place...so I don't think they want to live at home! :D:D
-
left home at 16.
I have some house-mates that didn't leave home until their 30's and ok fine.. different culture.
unfortunately, these people still need to grow up.. always asking mommy to bail them out etc.. they never learned to stand on their own feet and are always blaming their problems on 'someone' or 'something' else.
What should they have learned by now ??? RESPONSIBILITY !
-
Yeah no watermelon Mauser, I was amazed at how many houses in Hawaii have like 10 cars parked in front and 3 generations living inside. I dunno how they do it. I left home at 17 and never looked back. I couldn't imagine anyone staying at home until 30. My kids have both been forewarned...18 and out. They can go to college, but it's going to be one that's out of town
I think I've seen those houses ... not going there b/c I might get flamed for stereotyping ppl. of a certain nationality :D. I guess it just happens to be economical?? I wonder how ppl ever get privacy in those situations.
When I have the oppurtunity to raise my own I'm going to try very hard not to make em spoiled and dependent. Gosh I could see the kind of guy in Rip's article here everyday... parents buy him/her a Lexus IS300 (the current "cool" car for the priveledged kids) or a huge SUV; kid stays at home and thinks up excuses as to why these job offers they just got suck. Or just don't even try at all. No way I'm going to buy them one of those just because they graduated high school!
Kids gotta be taught to be thankful for the help their parents give them, not expect it from them. I know some who expect help from parents and older sibs... I don't think they will adjust to real life very well.
mauser
-
Originally posted by mauser
I think I've seen those houses ... not going there b/c I might get flamed for stereotyping ppl. of a certain nationality :D.
It's ok, you can say Samoan and Filipino around here ;)
-
Took my daughter to buy her 1st car last Saturday. The salesman said she was $200 short of the required down payment, looked at me and said "unless Dad wants to HELP YOU OUT". I stemmed my anger, and said "No. She is buying the car, not me, do YOU want to help her out?"
She got the car, without a co-signer and is paying her own insurance.
-
Snatched a little one bedroom apartment in a town 30 miles away, waited for my 18th birthday so I could legally work in the oilfields (fediddlein OSHA!!!), have only stayed with my folks for bried periods since then, and only out of necessity.
OTOH, I worked at a gypsum wallboard plant from 1986-90 and there were several men there who still lived at home with Mom and Pop.......the oldest was in his late forties :eek: :eek: :eek: .
I've told my kids they're gonna have to be planning on their own places and jobs before they turn 18 or graduate high school, none of this "I'll look tomorrow for a place. Going out with the guys, cya later folks!"
Incentive to go to college and get an education (not party all the time): My grandparents set up a trust fund for my two sisters and I; when my dad passes on (which hopefully will not be anytime soon) we each get an equal share of the moneys in the fund. I've already talked to the trustee in charge of the accounts, am gonna give my kids the full ride to college and a good vehicle to get them back and forth........PROVIDED that they make the grades and do what the hell they are supposed to do there, not party all the time and flunk out. If they choose the party route, the rug gets pulled out, the car/truck/SUV comes back home to Papa (me) and they sink or swim on their own.
Harsh? Not in my book. Too many kids who have everything handed to them on a silver platter never appreciate what is done for them and expect things to just be provided for them at their leisure. Make 'em earn their way, or part of it, and they find out that nothing comes easy or free.
-
19 and still living at home
Not that my parents aren't trying as hard as they can to get me out:D
-
"my little brother did the permanent teenager thing till he was 30. I never could understand it, I'd rather be broke under my own roof than comfortable under someone elses."
capt. apathy you should of left your parents the day your born in hospital :)
Each country has there own values, culture etc. We cant expect others values culutre to be same as yours mine etc.
:)
Have a nice day all
-
never said i expect others to do things my way.
just said i don't 'get it'
-
its funny when you hear the "i left home the day i could" crap talk to you idgits moms bet you get a different story.
the difference is the concept of extended family you need it when you dont make 6 figgures . and conservatives who have cash tend to have several x wives so kids are a burden. sad toejam
-
That son is probably an idiot but many of us here think that those high court judges are not better.
-
Hehe...I plan to move out once I'm 18 and get married at 19...cause you see...I'm different that way... I'm only waiting until I turn 18 cause right now I can just barely afford rent at the aparments me and my fiancée are looking at. Since she's applied for a job, she's going to assist in this for the next 9 months...after that and I'm 18...bye-bye...:D
-
Originally posted by mauser
When I have the oppurtunity to raise my own I'm going to try very hard not to make em spoiled and dependent. Gosh I could see the kind of guy in Rip's article here everyday... parents buy him/her a Lexus IS300 (the current "cool" car for the priveledged kids) or a huge SUV; kid stays at home and thinks up excuses as to why these job offers they just got suck. Or just don't even try at all. No way I'm going to buy them one of those just because they graduated high school!
Kids gotta be taught to be thankful for the help their parents give them, not expect it from them. I know some who expect help from parents and older sibs... I don't think they will adjust to real life very well.
mauser
FYI, I was raised in an upper income family, but earned everything that I bought, same will be for my children (hell, the 6 yr old already buys his own stuff now, with a slave-allowance ;) ), the only thing that they will get from us is an education. I think that's something we should offer them. Spoiled? Hardly. They'll learn the value of the dollar and if they want something, bad enough, they'll get a job to earn, as I did.
-
I was tearing Okinawa up, at 17 in the Marines.
Came home from Boot camp, went out with some friends that had too be in the house at 10. My mom said "How can I tell a Marine that he needs too be in the house at 10".:)
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
FYI, I was raised in an upper income family, but earned everything that I bought, same will be for my children (hell, the 6 yr old already buys his own stuff now, with a slave-allowance ), the only thing that they will get from us is an education. I think that's something we should offer them. Spoiled? Hardly. They'll learn the value of the dollar and if they want something, bad enough, they'll get a job to earn, as I did.
Yes, that is what I would prefer, having them learn the value of money. I remember wanting stuff when I was little (mostly hot-wheels cars and plastic models), but thankfully my parents didn't cave in all the time. When it comes to an education though, I didn't mention in my post that my parents paid for my bachelor's degree. We tried to get financial aid, but didn't qualify (and didn't want to get in debt with loans). However, they felt that it was their job to provide the money for our education, which I am forever greatful for. I know some parents who made their children work through college, and that is really up to them I don't have anything to say about that. I was able to get tuition waivers and a fellowship for all but 1 semester of my master's. So no, I don't think you're spoiling your children if you elect to pay for their education. Of course if they're just staying in school and accumulating not just one or two degrees and are refusing job offers...
mauser