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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on April 05, 2002, 09:15:05 PM

Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Citabria on April 05, 2002, 09:15:05 PM
for my own personal reasons. :D
I love flying the 262 and the p38, but to support my habbit of 262 runamokery the p38L with its low perk eny is not sufficient and I'm forced to fly mostly mossie f4u1 and p47d11 :)

i dont mind but would like to have a low class lightning with wich to build perk points.

thanks :)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: AKDejaVu on April 05, 2002, 09:35:47 PM
I'd like to see the J added too.  Nothing really to do with perks... just that I thought it was a cool plane.

AKDejaVu
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Citabria on April 05, 2002, 11:05:56 PM
imagine how awsome p38 cockpit will look with new graphics :)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Citabria on April 05, 2002, 11:16:11 PM
and nifty weathered olive drab texture maps :)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Tac on April 05, 2002, 11:42:48 PM
*sigh*

We can dream. Too bad we're awake...
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: BigCrate on April 05, 2002, 11:43:26 PM
Fester I would would like to see a P-38H modeled but a P-38j-5 will do just fine. :)

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: RUSH on April 06, 2002, 01:18:23 AM
He steps back..... Runs forward.....  


****PUNT****




P-38H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rush
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: mipoikel on April 06, 2002, 01:52:35 AM
Why dont you use 202??
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on April 06, 2002, 01:53:29 AM
Bring on the P38 whatever!
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Citabria on April 06, 2002, 03:01:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
Why dont you use 202??



because its not a p38!:rolleyes:
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Animal on April 06, 2002, 03:07:51 AM
Yeap, I would give a nice bribe for a new earlier war P-38 to raise perks like I'm doing now witht he SpitV
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Hristo on April 06, 2002, 03:35:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
Yeap, I would give a nice bribe for a new earlier war P-38 to raise perks like I'm doing now witht he SpitV


And lose all those perkies in 262 HOs you like so much ;)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: oboe on April 06, 2002, 07:17:16 AM
P-38, any F through H, would suit me jes fine.

As long as its green and doens't have the big chin radiators.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: laz on April 06, 2002, 08:14:10 AM
Just set old value back to how it was....  I don't feel like learning 2 p38 FM's :D And while we are on the subject... Am I the only one that doesn't agree with Value on p38 set at 22?? Thats tossing it up there with some pretty UBER planes, Unless its on a jabo base only.?? Please educate me ;)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Puck on April 06, 2002, 08:41:50 AM
You're just whining 'cuz you can't get 500 perk sorties anymore, Laz.  ENY should be based on the driver as much as the crate  :)

OTOH I'd take any 38 version they'd like to add.  I like that thing more than the Spit.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: hazed- on April 06, 2002, 09:11:34 AM
correct me if im wrong but isnt the J a faster P38 than the L?

as to the ENY at 22 it is a little bit low id say.Flying it id say is a little harder than flying the P51B and thats at 35!

Have htc set ENY to match an aircrafts use in the arena too?
if so then the latest eny changes make more sense.Still a 1109g10 at 21eny and p38 at 22eny is strange when you compare their performances.Only less use of the 109g10 could explain this id say.
Theres some strange values in there.....spitV at 20eny! is a spit5 classed as on parr with the 109g10? or is it overuse?

Id say if the P38J arives it would have a lower eny than the P38L if its quicker.The H model would be your best bet id say and would probably get a 30-40 eny value?
just guessing.

mind you have you noticed that the P38 is higher than the 110G2?
I dont think the G2 is anwhere near as competative in the MA myself but im sure others would argue with it.
I know one thing the P38 is a damn sight tougher than it used to be and from what ive noticed when making avi movies of kills no matter where its hit the first damage is a fuel leak on the right wing followed by the same on the left.then it seems to take damage where its 'actually' hit.Not a whine, see if it happens the same in your films.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: whirl on April 06, 2002, 09:20:11 AM
22 is underrating the 38.  it's one of the most difficult planes to fly, period.  nobody can just hop in a 38 and dogfight well, not like ya can do hoping into a spit 1 or 202.  

hell all the higher perked planes are easier to fly than this plane.

you take a 38 pilot and put him in any other plane and he'll kick ass.  thats not true for any other.  the reason?  the 38 has more options than any other plane available.  it'll nail a fw at 30k then a buff at 25 then a 109 at 20 then a 205 at 15 then a spit at 10 then a la7 at 5 then a yak on the deck.  no other plane can do this on a regular basis.  

this is the problem;  see, only the most experienced pilots will accomplish this.  most don't use the full potential of the 38, but they will fly it for missions, askewing the 38's numbers.

put a newbie in a 38 and he'll die repeatly for awhile. put a newbie in a 109 and he's killing on the first day.  givem a couple years in the 38 and he's killing everything, using the enemies planes' own tactics.


1193,Tried,Whirl
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Puck on April 06, 2002, 09:29:36 AM
Put Puck in a 38 and he died quite a bit. I'm starting to get the hang of it after a couple weeks of near-constant flying.  

Any of you P38 Gurus feel like taking me into the TA and showing me what I'm doing wrong (aside from running into the ground with only half a plane?  I'm learning how not to auger in dives  :)

I had to turn tracers back on to figure out why I've been missing the easy shots.  It's nothing like the SpitV I used to fly.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Urchin on April 06, 2002, 09:30:57 AM
I believe the ENY values are based solely on usage, not how 'capable' a plane is compared to another plane.  The 110g2 saw the most use out of any german plane last tour, which is why it has a ENY as low as it is.  BTW, the P38 has always been a pretty good plane, it has just started to see a gigantic upsurge in usage since they replaced its old DM with the new one of the Panzer IV.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: laz on April 06, 2002, 10:46:43 AM
My average sortie in p38 before its value was porked was about 10... My last few sorties in MA it was around 7.  f6f only has what... 4 less rockets... and no 20mm.. And outperforms 38 in its sleep, so because people are too dense to fly f6f, p38 value goes down?? Interesting..... :P  As for the p38 master puck.. I am always willing for a good duel, as soon as I resubscribe, to show you i can still get 500 perk sorties =P
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: hazed- on April 06, 2002, 11:07:07 AM
hehe P38 isnt any harder to use than anyplane! if you flew each the same way you would get kills but the p38 would take a lot more damage than most imo.Its on par with the mighty jug which is a bit silly seeing as how the jug is famous for its durability and the p38 isnt.
I agree the eny is a bit low for its ability but as others have said its based on useage.

Its far from the hardest plane to kill and survive in.all aircraft have to be learned.if you ask me which planes are hardest to get to grips with 'flying' wise id say these are just as hard as the p38:

F4ud (very unforgiving if you dogfight them)
P47s (to get real good in these is just as hard,learning flaps is a must)
190a8 (try to dogfight in these requires a total relearning of manouvers)
Yaks (very mushy controls)
Ki-61 (i think this is a dog personally :))
110g2 (this is nowhere near as capable as p38 in turn fights)

now this is guns aside.I think all 50s are easier to hit with but obviously dont have that instant kill affect.(well apart from P47s 8x50s!!)
to claim you have to be something special to use a p38 and do well in them is rediculous.All planes require the same sort of effort.
CIT is fantastic to watch in his p38 but if he loved the 205 and put same effort in he'd still be deadly im sure! :D
I can 'hop in' a P38 and get kills easily personally and same goes for the p47.I dont even touch the flaps etc 99% of the time.
I can do the same for pretty much every plane.Which do i feel takes the greater effort? In all honesty its the yaks(slushy planes!) or the F4u's(not the shooting) and i think the 190s are among the hardest because of the guns, not so much their flying characteristics.BUT many say they cant handle flying 190s and dont like them.
horses for courses, no ones right or wrong here cause it all boils down to what aircraft suit the pilots style.
Please dont give us this 'p38s require true skill' crap :) those 'good' p38 pilots would have the same trouble in almost any aircraft.yeah even the p51! ;)

Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Kweassa on April 06, 2002, 11:17:09 AM
Which model is the more representative of 1943 ETO air combats?

 P-38F? H? J?

 I'd like to see whichever is the most representative of 1943.

 
 Anyway, I disagree Hazed, P-38 seems a damn hard plane to Fly. Since I began with AH1.05, I've tried almost everyplane before I finally settled with 109s with the beginning of 1.08, looking for "the plane" I would decide to fly. From Zeros, Spits to Yaks, La series, Corsairs.. Mustangs.. etc etc...  Of many planes I tried, the complexity of P-38 combat flying is one of the greatest. Just trying to remember all those flap configurations for various combat situations were too much for my meager brain capacity :)

 To see many great pilots of the Twin Engined Devils, and Citabria achieve great success in the P-38s is just amazing for a average joe like me :)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Tac on April 06, 2002, 11:19:13 AM
Yes urchin I think its based on usage. I only see 1 dogfighting P-38 every hour in the MA, but I see about 9 or 10 P-38s going kamikaze on hangars.

IMO the ENY should be based on usage Vs kill % at end of tours. A plane with a very high usage but a low kill % means its either not being flown properly (in which case it = easy kill) or its used as a kamikaze craft.

Hazed: The 38J is a bit faster and has a bit better accel than the L, but it does not have dive flaps and if HTC models the early batch (which it should because the later batches were 38L equivalents), it wont have boosted aleirons. the 38J roll rate would be the same at low and high speeds before compression. To give it a lower eny than the L would be ludicrous.

Oh, and the 110G2 has great accel, good turn ability and a monster cannon armament. If you cant get a kill in a plane like this, you got a problem :) ;)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on April 06, 2002, 12:09:02 PM
luftwabbles just hate it
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Puck on April 06, 2002, 01:07:48 PM
I never said "good" duel, Laz!  :p

I ran into you once in the MA.  I'd been flying the P38 for about four days, and I remember saying "Look, another P38" and very shortly thereafter "What happened to my wings?"

Bastage  :D
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Pongo on April 06, 2002, 09:31:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria



because its not a p38!:rolleyes:


Citabria. Your request has been denied.
I will however grant you the following perk collector which I believe will be very much to your liking..
Enjoy
(http://www3.telus.net/pongo/mysterytwin.jpg)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Karnak on April 07, 2002, 12:15:40 AM
In my experience the P-38 is one of the easiest aircraft to succeed in.  It does many things very well, and zoom climbs with the best of them.  True, it is no Spit or N1K2, but it is far better than most other things.

The ENY values seem to me to now be set by usage, with a small influence given by the potential of an aircraft.  The Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9 are both rarer than the P-38 and yet both have a lower ENY.  The P-51D is more common than the N1K2 and yet has a higher ENY.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: laz on April 07, 2002, 09:38:22 AM
=)
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: lord dolf vader on April 07, 2002, 11:30:39 AM
i want the one that had the 37 mm in the nose. what model was that?
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: BigCrate on April 07, 2002, 01:03:19 PM
P-38D had  the 37mm cannon installed but it never saw combat with it. Most P-38Ds were used as trainers or the cannon was removed and onlt the 4 .50s stayed. I think those P-38D saw combat.

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Hristo on April 07, 2002, 01:49:28 PM
Can someone explain this :

Fw 190A-8 ENY = 35

Fw 190F-8 ENY = 25


??
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: laz on April 07, 2002, 02:01:40 PM
LOL Hristo....  Explain this

p38 - 22
f6f - 22

I don't see HOW p38 can be matched with f6... It might be a TAD bit better on the jabo end.....

As for the 190's.. Well.... The f8 is a overweight pig.. I think ALLL planes... (including b17) can outturn f8.  Strickly b&z. =P
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: moose on April 07, 2002, 02:15:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by whirl

put a newbie in a 38 and he'll die repeatly for awhile. put a newbie in a 109 and he's killing on the first day.  
1193,Tried,Whirl


that's complete BS

sorry to call you on it but the 109 is not a ride for a newbie.

maybe you meant LA7
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: whirl on April 07, 2002, 04:26:38 PM
moose, a new simmer will have less difficulty with the 109.  period.  granted, the 109 is a bit more touchy and takes more knowledge to fly in general, vs the la7, but its no beast like the 38.  

i flew the g2 in the scenario;  it was like stepping down 4 or 5 notches- as a matter of fact moose, in the first frame i believe i really worked you over in a g2.   i could fly the 109's blindfolded after the time i've had in the 38.   that goes for any plane in the ma.  you don't believe me?  i'll kill you in your ride of choice anytime, just to prove it.  oh wait, i've allready killed you in your ride of choice, the 38

hehe, sorry moose but i got on a roll there and had to let it out.  i'm not trying to start a flame war, but a little smack never hurt anyone;^/
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: whirl on April 07, 2002, 04:51:56 PM
in all honesty, i find the fw-190's to be the most difficult planes to fly and/or master.  only problem with them is their lack of options.  its bnz and extend or die.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Tac on April 07, 2002, 05:29:09 PM
I agree. 190's (except D9) and the hurri1/spit 1 the hardest fighters in AH.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: lord dolf vader on April 07, 2002, 07:57:20 PM
bigcrate

P-38D had the 37mm cannon installed but it never saw combat with it. Most P-38Ds were used as trainers or the cannon was removed and onlt the 4 .50s stayed. I think those P-38D saw combat.


havent heard that, i remeber somthing about a 38 with the 37 shootina at or sinkin a sub in the north atlantic being the first us shot fired on the atlantic front.
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: BigCrate on April 07, 2002, 09:44:30 PM
I could be wrong as I am a lot :)

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=
Title: I personnally need a perk collector p38F and or p38J
Post by: Urchin on April 07, 2002, 09:52:35 PM
Whirl, I'd happily take you up on your offer to kill someone in their ride of choice.  First we can both fly 109s (any varient you'd like)- then we'll both fly the P-38.  

EDIT:  After we are done doing that, we can also go 109 vs P38- you can tell me which 109 to fly.

I happen to be of the camp that thinks the 109 is a lot tougher to master than the P-38.  I am also of the camp that believes the 109 is a much deadlier plane than the P-38 once you've mastered it.  

In my opinion, the P-38 is a great plane for middle of the road pilots.  It is slightly to difficult for newbies (at least newbies that like to turn, a natural E fighting newbie like I was could have some success in it), but it doesn't offer as many advantages as some planes do to the advanced, possibly sneaky (lol) pilot.  Citabria is an exception to this, but he is great in any plane.

Actually.. that came out a bit stupid.  This sounds even dumber as I write it, but I'll try to explain it and maybe someone will make sense of it.  Everyone knows what the P38 can do- or at least they think they do.  For instance, I KNOW the P38 will outturn me if I am in a 109-G10.  Hell, a P38 will outturn just about any 109 at the same speed.  People get used to seeing the P38 fight a certain way- and that is usually the best way to fight in it.  The P38 is a great TnB plane if it starts off with an advantage (like altitude or position).  The P38 has really bad high speed handling, everyone knows that.  

Now, as far as advantages the 109 (for instance) offers.  Everyone knows pretty much how the 109-G10 performs.  Some people underestimate it, which is good for the G10 pilot.  People get used to seeing the G10 BnZ- but in my opinion that is NOT the best way to fight in it.  The G10 is a very capable turnfighter, provided your opponent is not a Spit, Zeke, or Niki.  Or a good pilot in an La7 or a Yak or a P38 ( bad pilots are fair game though :)).  Most everything else the G10 can turn with.

What makes it even better is there are multiple versions of the 109.  The G2 turns better than the G10 and has more speed than the G6, but you sacrifice some firepower by losing the 13mm MGs.  However, for the aggressive 109 pilot this matters not.  People in La7s and such will see you 'try' to turn your 109 and get sucked into a turnfight that they will lose.  The F4 turns even better than the G2 plus it has a German camo scheme so it isnt as immediately obvious that you aren't fighting a G10.  The E4 can turn with a poor pilot in a Spitfire or Niki (good pilots in either will shred a 109E though).

That is what makes the 109 more fun in my opinion, but also more challenging.  You need to know the strengths of your plane, and you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the enemies plane.  The P38 is in the same boat here, but I really think it is a more competetive plane overall than any 109 except the G10.  Anyway, my long, incredibly convoluted, and nonsensical post is over.  I'm tired, lol.