Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JoeCrip on April 07, 2002, 02:29:45 PM
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First, A Story:
When 1.09 first came out, i found my self in a 4 vs 4. It was me (in a 109 e-4), with a spit 1, a spit 1, and a hurr 1. We were fighting 2 bf110's and 2 spit 1's. So, here we have a balanced fight, with everyone testing out the new planes and having fun. About 3 mins into the fight, and no one had died. I though to myself, Wow! , this is a fun fight. Well, i spoke too soon. Here we are, me and my 3 countrymen in early war planes, when all of a sudden a N1K-2J comes along. Kills me and my 3 country men.
Ok, there's the story. This plane is just too unbalancing in a fight.
My 2 Idea's
1) Lower to eny of the n1k-2 to about 5 eny, and give it a small perk value like the f4u-1c. Why was the 1c perked? wasnt it beacuase of the good guns, good speed. Well, the niki has good guns and good speed.
2) Remove the N1k-2j, and replace it with the N1k-1, which was a lot more common.
N1K-2J's were very uncommon. Here's somthing i read. Out of the 400 N1K-2J's made, about 200 of them were destory in raid's by the allies. Out of the remaining 200, 125 fell apart in the air, due to their HORRIBLE RELIABLITY.
Comments?
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The N1K2 is slow as molasses, has lousy innaccurate guns, and isn't even the most common plane in the MA. What exactly is so unbalancing about it?
Since the early Spits and maybe even 109E can out-turn the N1K2, I'd venture to guess that the guy who killed you on that day was a decent pilot who knew what he was doing and would have killed you regardless of what he was flying.
The F4U-1C was perked because it was starting to dominate to a degree where it was messing up gameplay (it had over 20% total usage and could routinely get 1K-plus kills). The N1K2 does neither of those things.
J_A_B
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learn to live with it, you should have seen it befor they "fixed" it
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I know what the n1k was like in 1.07, and they did fix it in 1.08...but not enough. The guy who killed all 4 of us was some 32094230 guy. I remeber some n1k-2j piolt saying that the n1k-2j was a difficult plane to master, and it required a lot of work. Well, that isnt the case in AH.
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I dont really see a problem with it joecrip. The scenario you described was a dreamland in the MA, to expect some guy to happen along and not engage you in the MA (whatever AC he was in) is absurd.
The N1K is a good AC that is decent in all categories (except speed), but certainly is not the best in those categories.
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So you got your bellybutton kicked while flying a 109E-4, what do you expect in the MA?
Originally posted by JoeCrip
Out of the 400 N1K-2J's made, about 200 of them were destory in raid's by the allies. Out of the remaining 200, 125 fell apart in the air, due to their HORRIBLE RELIABLITY.
Comments?
Sure you were not reading about the FW-190D9?
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Holy crap, only 200 N1K-Js made it airborne? I know the creators of Aces High dont perk on the rarity of the aircraft, but come on. The N1k can outperform an F4U1-C in many categorys: Turn rate, acceleration, climb rate, visibility, stall speed, landing characteristics- just to name a few! I am pretty sure that the N1k out accelerates an F4U in a dive for the first few thousand feet also.
I was disappointed with the increase in perk price for the F4u-1c. I guess people were flying it too much. At least I'm glad the N1k doesnt unbalance the arena.
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Ok, ok. What about the N1K1 idea...it was like the N1K-2J, only a bit slower, 2x20mm, and 2x7mm, turned a bit worse, And A LOT more common, then the rarely seen IRL N1k-2j
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Joecrip-
If I'd come along in a 190A5 I could have done the same thing to you- it might have taken a little longer, but you all would probably have died.
It just happened to be a N1K2 this time. Next time it will be a mustang, or an F4U, or any other of a number of planes that flat outperform those aircraft. Needless to say, you haven't proven anything overwhelming in any way.
Sorry your early war fight was broken up. You really should have tried the CT in the BoB setup, it was a blast.
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Well, i also hoped you had gotten this out of the story:
Here we all are testing and having fun with the new planes. In this case they were BOB planes, but i am sure the same thing would have happened if the new planes were 1944 planes, or 1945 planes. Anyway, here we were testing the new planes, everyone having fun, seeing how these planes preform, ect, ect. When some N1k-2j dweeb who could give 2 F**k's about the new planes dives in, and ends the fight. What i am trying to say, besides that this plane dominates a fight is, Niki dweebs are always gonna be niki dweebs. They will always fly the niki beacuse they know that they can control the fight.
I would Love for 1 day have the Niki, La7, and Spit disabled. It would be funny seeing a niki dweeb in a 190a8...i could just imagine it...
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lowering ENY wont do any good. People will still fly it and quake in it.
The n1ks one and ONLY bad thing is its not-so-good top speed. Note I said not-so-good.. the n1k can dive to near 500mph and still be able to manouver far better than a 109 at the same speeds. The only thing you can really do vs a n1k is outdive it. If you engage it in vertical fights, it will hover on its engine down to 25 mph, at which point it stalls as gently as a P-38 (laughable). If you turn with it you'd better be in a spit or hurricane or zeke, or it will eat you. On the firepower dept, the cannons it has may not be the hizookas of the C-hog, but 3 or 5 hits from that thing will seriously damage you if it doesnt kill you outright. A n1k can hit up to d700 (some folks spray and hit up to d950 in my experience).
Something I've wanted to know is if HTC has modelled the increased drag caused by then n1k's AUTOMATIC butterfly flaps? I know the flaps dont deploy on their own in that thing in AH.
Just to think that if that thing would deploy the flaps on its own creating a lot of drag, it would not be able to pull most of the shtuff it pulls now.
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D950? That all? :)
I found it amazing when a 20mm from a N1k-2j hit my 500 MPH 262 from D1.2.
Alothough, stranger thing have happened...like that 262 you kill from d750 with the 30mm Tac ;)
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
1) Lower to eny of the n1k-2 to about 5 eny, and give it a small perk value like the f4u-1c. Why was the 1c perked? wasnt it beacuase of the good guns, good speed. Well, the niki has good guns and good speed.
Comments?
Hispanos are much better guns than the Japanese counterparts. Hardly a comparision.
14 fighters in AH are slower (top end deck) than the N1K
29 are faster.
33 fighters in AH are slower (top end deck) than the F4u-1C
10 are faster (including 3 other Corsairs).
eskimo
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yer all a buncha dweebs. wanh. wanh. fly my way, and get rid of those gay-ray rides everybody else flies. wanh. wanh.
;)
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JoeCrip - if you are expecting an answer to your question, you probably wont get it (Read my thread, "Of Dweebs and Perks"). The vast majority of people on this BBS are more interested in starting a flame war than commenting on your idea. (Read: ~youre a sucky pilot, etc)
What do I think? I think the N1k is an aircraft that has an unbalancing effect on the arena. What do i think about replacing it with the N1k1? Bad idea. I think the N1k1 should be introduced, but the N1k2J should be perked... 10 at least. It is not a supirior aircraft to the F4U1-C IMHO, but the qualities is possess allow inexperienced pilots to effectively play god in fight. (Read: lack of torque from a 2000HP engine, hanging on its prop, 850 rounds of spray and pray 20mm's and good speed, good manuverability.)
I think alot of these comments about "god-like" aircraft are coming from those of us from AW. Even tho Ive been here for the better part of 6 months, Im stil geting used to the environment here - certain things just dont work in AH as the game seems to be dependent on the aircraft winning the fight as opposed to the pilot. (Cant wait to see the reaction to that comment) :)
Enjoy
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Joe now you know how I feel when I'm fighting in my Spit V and some dweeb comes a long in an uber-late-war-half-destroyed-on-the-ground G-10 or D-9.
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Saurdaukar, you thoughs and opinion are apricated! I was expecing to get the usuall "IS THIS A WHINE!!"
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(http://4e316b277320617265.20666f72204b69647321.203a613aC.amg.sytes.net/gutter.php)
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Joe, it is YOU that are missing the point (and no, I am not looking for a flamewar, Saur).
The 190A5 is a 1941 plane. It would have creamed all of your BoB planes in that duel easily. What the Nikki did was far from extraordinary. Instead of seeing this, you have attempted to turn this example into evidence the Nikki is ruining MA play. What this ignores is the fact the MA is full of plenty of mid and late war planes that are far worse than the Nikki.
Honestly, I cannot remember so many "the sky is falling" posts in such a short span of time. Must be a full moon or something.
You appear to have some serious problems with the Nikki- why is anyone's guess, but I certainly have not jumped to the conclusion you are a bad pilot. I think I can fairly conclude you are trying to eliminate the Nikki from the arena. I also note the appelation you apply to anyone who flies it. This suggests you really believe you have to prove what a barrel-chested, fur-bearing he-man you are by flying the early stuff. Go ahead, do so, but don't expect others will follow suit.
Consider this: some people want to fly exotic stuff. They just do, that's why. How many other sims let you fly a Nikki in this type of environment? Ta152s? C205s or C202s? Tempests or Typhoons? Yaks? La5s or La7s? And why the heck should any time be spent on building these planes if people like you are going to come in here and try to declare them off-limits by applying derogatory appelations on them? Sure, old-timers like me will laugh at your imagined elitism, but the new guys fall for it. There's the harm.
Bottom line is you control you. In the MA, it is pointless to rend your clothes and throw dust on your head because you feel people don't play the way you think they should or with the tools you think they should use. The MA is what it is. Honestly, for all you guys complaining about the overpopulation of certain types of planes, precious few of you show your tails in the CT, where you have precisely the type of environment you claim to crave in order to enjoy this sim. Fact is, you don't really want what you ask for.
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I see you point Kieran, and it is a vaild one indeed. But the situation i descibed was literly 1-2 hours after 1.09 had come out. EVERYONE was in the new planes, even the dedicated la7 and spit piolts, except a select few who deicded they wanted to dominate all the new planes with there little niki.
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Ok, another idea poped into my head. There were 400 niki's, 200 got straffed by Allied Forces. So we are down to 200. Approx. 125 of those N1k-2j's fell apart do to reliabilty. So, we have 75 good working N1k-2j's left. How about, you are only allowed up to 75 death's in the Nik-2j per/tour?
I am not trying to elimate the Niki and it's flyers, just simply throwing out some idea's to help limit it.
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Let me get this right, a late 1944 Japanese fighter destroyed 3-4 1940 British and German fighters and is so proven to be overly powerful?
Any 1944 fighter would have done the same.
"Japanese" does not equal "crap" when it comes to WWII fighters. Sorry to pop your bubble. Hell, the best Japanese fighter isn't even in AH yet.
Sure, 200 N1K2s were destroyed on the ground. That doesn't tell us that they never flew combat missions before being destroyed on the ground. The ones that suffered mechanical failures in flight did not suffer them all on the flight from the factory, many flew multiple missions before suffering the failure that destroyed them. How many were made operational again by ground crews using parts from 2 or more destroyed aircraft? You're making an awful lot of assumptions to reach the 75 number.
Do you think the Spit IX should be perked? Only 300 or so of the version we have in AH were built.
1-2 hours after 1.09 had come out I was in a fight against a higher Spit I whith my Spit I. Co-alt with me were a friendly N1K2 and La-7. I got the kill.
BTW, Kieran, the Fw190A-5 is a 1943 fighter.
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Do you think the Spit IX should be perked? Only 300 or so of the version we have in AH were built.
Yes, in fact, I think the top 5 planes should be given small perk values as follows:
Shitfire 9 Had the most kills, so it is 5 perks
Runstang Came in 2nd place, so it is 4 perks
Nikiddy Came in 3rd Place, so it is 3 perks
Lag 7 Came in 4th place, so it is 2 perks
Shitfire 5 Came in 5th place, so it is 1 perk
Sounds like a reasonable idea? no?
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Karnak-
My apologies. Of course the 190A5 variant is later.
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JoeCrip,
Ignoring your juvenile language, no, I don't think that is a good idea. Perking all of the aircraft that people like to fly is a great way to lose customers and a great way to go out of business.
I would suggest that you simply deal with it and not try to force others to conform to your preffered style of play.
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keep your hands off my stang, i don't like it when i'm shot down but i don't cry about it
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Stands Up and Applaudes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great post!!! You said what I have been thinking.
I love the Niki and get called a Niki dweed, now i fly the bf-110 and get MORE kills per sortie, guess I'm still a skillless pilot painted with a widebrush.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Kieran
Joe, it is YOU that are missing the point (and no, I am not looking for a flamewar, Saur).
The 190A5 is a 1941 plane. It would have creamed all of your BoB planes in that duel easily. What the Nikki did was far from extraordinary. Instead of seeing this, you have attempted to turn this example into evidence the Nikki is ruining MA play. What this ignores is the fact the MA is full of plenty of mid and late war planes that are far worse than the Nikki.
Honestly, I cannot remember so many "the sky is falling" posts in such a short span of time. Must be a full moon or something.
You appear to have some serious problems with the Nikki- why is anyone's guess, but I certainly have not jumped to the conclusion you are a bad pilot. I think I can fairly conclude you are trying to eliminate the Nikki from the arena. I also note the appelation you apply to anyone who flies it. This suggests you really believe you have to prove what a barrel-chested, fur-bearing he-man you are by flying the early stuff. Go ahead, do so, but don't expect others will follow suit.
Consider this: some people want to fly exotic stuff. They just do, that's why. How many other sims let you fly a Nikki in this type of environment? Ta152s? C205s or C202s? Tempests or Typhoons? Yaks? La5s or La7s? And why the heck should any time be spent on building these planes if people like you are going to come in here and try to declare them off-limits by applying derogatory appelations on them? Sure, old-timers like me will laugh at your imagined elitism, but the new guys fall for it. There's the harm.
Bottom line is you control you. In the MA, it is pointless to rend your clothes and throw dust on your head because you feel people don't play the way you think they should or with the tools you think they should use. The MA is what it is. Honestly, for all you guys complaining about the overpopulation of certain types of planes, precious few of you show your tails in the CT, where you have precisely the type of environment you claim to crave in order to enjoy this sim. Fact is, you don't really want what you ask for.
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Everytime I see you in the MA and you get shot down by a "dweeb plane" you cry about it on open channel. I like seeing them nikis cause they are a fiter magnet everyone wants to kill beacuse of the eny value. I shot down a few last night in my 38. I can take them out easily when i up a f4u. I fly many different planes in the MA beacuse of what the different capabilities are. If iam playing desprate base defense iam gonna grab a "dweeb" plane regardless. I havent flown a niki in months and dont know what the changes are with the 1.08 conversion but it seems slight. Here is some real life combat traning for ya. 1. Circumstances Dictate Tacticts. 2. A great Tactictioner never involves himself in a fair fight. People get dedicated to a paticular plane. I for one would probably be flying a p-40 if there was one however I would expect to get my arse handed to me on a platter. But I would be a great piolt in that plane.
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
But the situation i descibed was literly 1-2 hours after 1.09 had come out.
So why whine about it now, weeks later?
Are you worried that your whine about kill stealing will not lock up the award for you this week?
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So why whine about it now, weeks later?
This really inst a whine. I threw out a few idea's on how to limit niki's. You imedialy though "he is a LW, and he said somthing about niki's...IT"S A WHINE!!"
Why did I wait? I felt like it
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about super guns in aH , ok AH cant model diferent load out like 3 ap 1HE so it model APHE round, so how about for those LASER BAZOKA armed planes to model 1 canon with AP second canon wiht HE , is it much much more realistic when you hit with 1 bulets you hit wiht AP or !!! HE and not APHE
gust sespect that NIKI also got wonder load out :P
q for mister T.Wiliams you say HE round was less efective on fabrick surfaces
:) ok,can you describe the efect of 50 calibers on diferent surfaces PLZZZZ ??? ;)
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sure.. right after you explain that gawdamed 30mm tater gun you luftwhiners have.
;)
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Hang Lw got 30 mm stone trower , if you like to call it exact :D
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Here's somthing i read. Out of the 400 N1K-2J's made, about 200 of them were destory in raid's by the allies. Out of the remaining 200, 125 fell apart in the air, due to their HORRIBLE RELIABLITY.
And where did you read that?
Is that what it actually said or did you errr ummmm .... paraphrase what it actually said?
I've done alot of reading on Japanese fighters, and the Ki84 and N1K2 in particular, and while I've heard of engine reliability problems before, but I've never read of any of them falling apart in the air, let alone over 25% of the total ever made.
Please share where you found this info.
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
First, A Story:
When 1.09 first came out, i found my self in a 4 vs 4. It was me (in a 109 e-4), with a spit 1, a spit 1, and a hurr 1. We were fighting 2 bf110's and 2 spit 1's. So, here we have a balanced fight, with everyone testing out the new planes and having fun. About 3 mins into the fight, and no one had died. I though to myself, Wow! , this is a fun fight. Well, i spoke too soon. Here we are, me and my 3 countrymen in early war planes, when all of a sudden a N1K-2J comes along. Kills me and my 3 country men.
Ok, there's the story. This plane is just too unbalancing in a fight.
Well that's too bad... such is the Main Arena... My take is that it didn't have to be the N1K2-J to have done that but could have been done by almost anything. Singling out the N1K2-J is because of your prejudice :D
Originally posted by JoeCrip
My 2 Idea's
1) Lower to eny of the n1k-2 to about 5 eny, and give it a small perk value like the f4u-1c. Why was the 1c perked? wasnt it beacuase of the good guns, good speed. Well, the niki has good guns and good speed.
2) Remove the N1k-2j, and replace it with the N1k-1, which was a lot more common.
N1K-2J's were very uncommon. Here's somthing i read. Out of the 400 N1K-2J's made, about 200 of them were destory in raid's by the allies. Out of the remaining 200, 125 fell apart in the air, due to their HORRIBLE RELIABLITY.
Comments?
N... O... NO! :D Bring the Ki-43, Ki-44, Ki-84, Ki-100 to ACES HIGH!
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Please don't limit the N1K2's in the MA. If you do, I will lose a valuable source of kills with which I pad my stats.
-math
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Relax fellas, your not really flying planes and shooting other planes down. Your playing a game on a computer.
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
Well, i also hoped you had gotten this out of the story:
Here we all are testing and having fun with the new planes. In this case they were BOB planes, but i am sure the same thing would have happened if the new planes were 1944 planes, or 1945 planes. Anyway, here we were testing the new planes, everyone having fun, seeing how these planes preform, ect, ect. When some N1k-2j dweeb who could give 2 F**k's about the new planes dives in, and ends the fight. What i am trying to say, besides that this plane dominates a fight is, Niki dweebs are always gonna be niki dweebs. They will always fly the niki beacuse they know that they can control the fight.
I would Love for 1 day have the Niki, La7, and Spit disabled. It would be funny seeing a niki dweeb in a 190a8...i could just imagine it...
A Whine has been recorded.
It cracks me up when instead of using sound tactics and brains, some cry to eliminate planes because they can't beat 'em. The 3 planes you listed are some of the easiest planes to shoot down.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Yawn!
Leave the N1k2, it's fine as it is! It was fine before HTC neutered it and is certainly not uber or unbalancing.
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JoeCrip, do you find any appreciable difference between N1K2, F6F, Yak9U or Spits? All of them are in the same bag for me, only real difference is the colour and the number of guns and that one of them doesnt need wep at all, but handling and E keeping is almost the same for all of them. Personally, I find the N1K2 the weakest of the four.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
JoeCrip, do you find any appreciable difference between N1K2, F6F, Yak9U or Spits? All of them are in the same bag for me, only real difference is the colour and the number of guns and that one of them doesnt need wep at all, but handling and E keeping is almost the same for all of them. Personally, I find the N1K2 the weakest of the four.
I would disagree on this one in case of the Yak-9U. True it doesnt have WEP but it has so many other disadvantages over the rest of the planes on your list that its never going to be a newbie's or furball dweeb's prime ride. Yak just lacks ammo and most dweebs just use the spray and pray tactics which they cant use very much while in Yak with its single 20mm/120 rpg loadout... I admit that Yak-9U is a killer! It is... a big one. But yu have to know a bit how to use it. I dont think N1K is dominating the arena nor it is unbalancing it. No not at all. If you know how to fight them they are ded and if you dont have the time to fight them you can always outrun them :) Maybe if oneday N1K1 is introduced then N1K2 could get symbolicaly berked by 1 or 2 pps but I dont think its necessary right now or in close future...
Just my $0.02
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MadBirdCZ, agree with u about the ammo, but Yak9U is by far the most uber of the four, probably the most uber of the entire unperked planeset. Pick up one and start playing with anything for several minutes (even a La7), when the enemy WEP time is used, outrun, outclimb, outdive, outaccelerate and outturn it, quite an enormous advantage over the four cannons of the n1k2.
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Mandoble: I flew N1K once so cant tell much on this one, I flew La7 few times and the plane is hell of a speeder down there packing quite decent punch and pretty damage resistant too, when Im forced to operate from CV I choose F6F... Maybe because it looks more like an airplane than the 'cut in half' X-Wing F4U and I must say that the .50s on F6F are pretty deadly (as all .50s in AH), I flew Spitfires a lot when I came in AH and I was going through my newbie/dweeb development process. Then I met a guy called VRaptor who flew Yak and he got huge numbers of kills in it. So I said to myself - what the hell is this Yak all about? It has just 1 canon, limited ammo, short legs and that guy is able tokill anything in it and make it home refuel and kill everything again... So I started to fly Yak... I died... I died a lot... But after some time of winging with that guy and later with Fariz I really started to like the Yak so trust me I know that Yak is pain for other airplanes (hello there minus) :D But it has more negative aspects than you actually think. Any slightest damage (1 or 2 pings from almost any weapon) regulary tend to kill its radiator. With radiator leak it takes about 10 seconds!! for the engine to overheat and jam... So this is a price for 24/7 wep... It has low ammo and small fueltanks so its quite shortlegged it cant hang in air for ages like p51s or p38s do...
Yak-9 is deadly if its in good hands but this applyes to any airplane... I still think its more about the pilot...
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Originally posted by MadBirdCZ
Any slightest damage (1 or 2 pings from almost any weapon) regulary tend to kill its radiator. With radiator leak it takes about 10 seconds!! for the engine to overheat and jam
Like any 190, and perhaps any single engined plane. Well, the fact is that I dont remember any N1k2 or La7 smoking gray ...
The times I few Yak9U I found it as being a more forgiving plane than any spit (they also run quickly out of wep), and the single cannon, while not having a big punch is very accurate, more than the one in 109s.
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Your all lucky I am lazy and don't feel like typing...... :D :D
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If nik is such an unbalancing plane, why don't i see more fo them?
Granted we have a few spit models, but i see waaaay more of them than niks.
See more 51's than niks as well
I'd like to see more of them though, as that would help earn me 262's...
SKurj
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Ok, it's official, Man is nuts. I've no idea how much time you've spent in any Yak, but it isn't the uber plane you make it out to be. It's good, but not that good.
Compared to your most hated enemy (Spits of any kind):
It can't turn with any except the XIV.
It is faster than all but the XIV at low level.
Its guns don't compare.
Acceleration is roughly equal.
Compared to the other arena planes:
It will never challenge the 1C, Tempest, American anything or any La for killing power (as in, multi-kill sorties).
So, what do you have? A plane that holds full power (by virtue of having no WEP) all the time, is light, can turn somewhat, and accelerates very well. That's it.
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Joe, just view the N1K as a crutch for those who cannot walk on two legs, it makes up for the lack of skill. Once you start viewing the N1K drivers as such, you will begin to reconcile your differences in your abilities, and theirs.
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Guess I better grab a crutch and start flying. ;)
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Kieran, with Yak9u what I have is a plane that eats N1K2, F6F, Spits and La7s for breakfast. It will be able to eat only a few each time, ok. What you call "killing power" is secondary when you have a plane able to outfly (not outrun only) anything. And I'm not comparing it with already perked planes.
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With Yak-9U a single ammo load (120 + 240) is enough for 4-5 fighters or 2 buffs ;)
Now who said Yak-9U is not miltikill sortie capable? :)
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I just can't agree with that. Yak is good, but eat the others alive? No way.
The funny thing is how our arguments have reversed. I think the Yak can get away from things it can't outturn and outturn those it can't outrun (for the most part) but it is not that scary. You say it can control the fight with its speed and acceleration. Kinda like a, hmm... ;)
I happen to think most of our planes have a particular niche, though some have more flexibility than others. They also have distinct weakness, though some more than others. Very few are worthy of perking for the reason of being overpowering.
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If the Yak is so much better, why isn't this thread about adjusting it's ENY/Perk values?
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
N1K-2J's were very uncommon. Here's somthing i read. Out of the 400 N1K-2J's made, about 200 of them were destory in raid's by the allies. Out of the remaining 200, 125 fell apart in the air, due to their HORRIBLE RELIABLITY.
Comments?
JoeCrip, like Vermillion, I too am wondering where you read this. Please share your source.
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What can we do about the N1K2? Well, I kill them at every opportunity. There's nothing amazing about them. Like any other type, it's only as good as its pilot. Understanding your aircraft's strengths and weaknesses determines haow you deal with them. If I'm flying a Spit or Zeke, I'll simply out-turn them. If I'm in a Typhoon or La-7, I use speed and surprise. If you surrender your advantage, well, then you have to pay the piper. However, in general terms, I don't find them especially troublesome, usually no trouble at all.
My regards,
Widewing
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And if this n1k dives on you from average n1k alt (about 30k) , what do you do then widewing? =)
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laz, it is about n1k2, not about P51/P38, average alt is 1k.
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Laz, what do you do about anything that dives on you from an alt advantage? Seems like it is all pretty much the same result if the guy knows what he is doing.
Agreed with Mandoble, where do you see all those 30K Nikkis? Above 20K it's pretty much a turd...
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I don't know if I agree that the N1K2, Spit, and La7 are amoung the easiest kills in AH for me. Flown properly, they are amoung the hardest planes to kill- period. This is from my perspective in a 109 or 190 though. The N1K2 will outturn anything but a 109E4 (and it can turn with that), it will outaccelerate anything but the D9 and G10 (about on par with those), it has great firepower, climbs and dives well, and it is as just about as fast as the LW planes except the 109G10 and the 190D9.
Spit9 is in the same book as the N1K2, but it isnt as fast.
La7 is the true D9 and G10 killer. It simply does everything better, literally. The earlier 109s can outturn it though.
The 'trick' to killing them is to simply come in with an advantage. Oh, and to know your plane better than he knows his.
A great pilot in a 109G10 will kick an average pilots ass, even if he is in an La7. This is because the G10 pilot can get more out of his plane than the La7 pilot can, even though the La7 is capable out outperforming the 109G-10. If an average pilot in a 109G-10 meets a great pilot in an La7, he can kiss his bellybutton goodbye.
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I think the perk system needs to be a bit more radical.
Big rewards for early war planes.
Small rewards, and increased costs for late war planes
This is the case now, just not radical enuf to bring the whole
planeset into play.
One way is to award no perks to late war planes unless
they land the kills.
(i fly mostly 109g-10 and p47d-30, but would really enjoy
early model dogfites, but lets face it, unless your flying over
your own airbase or haev big numbers, you cant really
travel into indian country and expect to return alive with a
slow aircraft, regardless of how numble it is)
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How about this for radical- 30 perks for any kill landed in a 202! ;)
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Originally posted by Kieran
How about this for radical- 30 perks for any kill landed in a 202! ;)
Then I would demand HT to cash out my 22 victories in c.202 from last tour :D After reaching the 22 I had to cease flying that beast because it started to be way too embarasing for my enemies ;)
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From Tour26:
JoeCJG2 has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109E-4 against the N1K2
Wierd... stats don't say you were shot down by a N1K2 while flying an Emil in tour 26.
AKDejaVu
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Ok here's a reply from one us Newbee nikdweebs. I've only been playing AH for 4 or 5 weeks now and I tried several of the planes at first. I had the most success in the niki so I practiced with it some offline, got to know the plane a little better and now I'm having FUN with it! :D Unless I missed something somewhere thats what I thought you were suppose to do in a GAME! HAVE FUN!! I certainly dont consider the nik an uber plane but it does seem to be a nicely balanced plane. As far as speed it seems down right slow quite often. I liked the F6F in AW because it was a balanced plane that was great at nothing but good at everything.
The 'trick' to killing them is to simply come in with an advantage. Oh, and to know your plane better than he knows his.
Thats pretty much says it all doesnt it? I've gotten jumped, pounced upon, bounced, ganged, vulched, you name it, by virutually every plane in the game. I had an La5 & Yak9 dance on my head for a good 5 or 6 minutes the other day until they finally shredded every usable part of my plane. :eek: Was I mad? Mad that I'd died but not mad at the guys who killed me. They picked their ride, I picked mine, they got advantage over me, flew their planes well, didnt relinquish their advantage and killed me. to them.
I heard someone say the other day that "people who have patriotic pride about imaginary countries in a virtual game world have some issues." I think anyone who gets upset because of the planes people choose to fly has some issues.
The only enemy planes I hate are those above me or on my 6 :) If they are below me or in front of my guns I just LOVE em! I really, really do! :D :D
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Personally, my K/D against the N1K is not especially good, or bad. N1Ks are just slow decent turning enemy planes to me.
eskimo
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Lousy fools... you know not the fury you will unleash when my friend Frank shows up. I am not sure when he will get here, but trust me, you will long for the day that you had only poor little George to kick around!
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I would love to have Frank show up. He looks like he will be an intresting freind, At the proper perk price of "50-100" of course ;)
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Originally posted by Sikboy
If the Yak is so much better, why isn't this thread about adjusting it's ENY/Perk values?
-Sikboy
The YAK 9U is a great fighter, however if you arent a good shot then it is not for you. This thing excels with folks that can shoot well.
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N1K is a crutch for poor flying? Does that mean if I strap on an N1K I'll get fur on my teeth and be able to kill anyone in the arena?
Somehow I think not. Aircraft may give you an edge, but if you don't know how to use it some hot stick in a doorstop is going to eat your lunch.
You're looking for something to do about all those N1Ks? Me, personally, I do everything I can to shoot them down on principle. I don't succeed often, but I'm not a very good pilot, either. I certaily never blame the other aircraft for my failings. :rolleyes:
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Well said TMASTadon. I hope some of these whiners bothered to read your post...in between whines.
bowser
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I feel required to defend Joe here... must be that "underdog" thing again.
Something needs to be done about the N1k. (All you "Whining about whiners" guys can stop reading now - the rest of the post actually contains an idea - doesnt matter to you - commence flaming) I would be MORE THAN SATISFIED if torque was modeled. I really cant see how a 2000HP engine doesnt have an effect on the airframe rolling. In addition - how about modeling barrell temperature on ALL aircraft so we dont have people holding the trigger down for 15 seconds at a time? Would really help to eliminate "spray and pray, pay no attention to E" N1k dweebs.
From tour 26:
AkDejaVu has 0 kills of N1K2 and 0 deaths by N1K2
I dont think anyone with such extensive experience with the aircraft in question should be posting other peoples numbers.
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As posted in another thread, this is how you deal with the N1K2:
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Something needs to be done about the N1k.
What happend, did you crash into another one?
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So Mathman uses the blue nikki to kill green ones ...
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Would really help to eliminate "spray and pray, pay no attention to E" N1k dweebs.
I'd really like to see what could be done to help eliminate "always an excuse and I must tell you why I died because it is not my fault" dweebs.
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Niki was a great ho in ww2. SHe was easy..she was sleazy and man could she please ya. Yea yea yea!
xBAT
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I would be MORE THAN SATISFIED if torque was modeled
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS FACTS, NOT IDEAS
don't bother reading, instead just comence in whining:
Originally posted by hitech
Im alway looking at ways to make inprovements, but some numbers I have no doubt about, torque is one of them.
Torque is one of the easy things to caculate, it realy is as simple as Torque = HP/(prop rmp) this would give you an absolute max torque to be applied to the airframe. The torque applied to the air frame would be slightly less do to the gear box friction. We ignor the gear box effects when caculating torque on the plane, so if you wish real torque we could acctuly lower it by 5 - 8 %.
Just a question to you [*****], what effect does increased torque have on an airplane ?
If you wish to discuse the technical aspects of AH I just wan't to make sure we have a clear understanding of terms.
Now that you've been more than satisfied, would you like a smoke?
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
So Mathman uses the blue nikki to kill green ones ...
You know, I never thought about it, but yeah I guess I do. Particularly since the N1K2 is really no better than the F6F and they die even faster.
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Well, there are a few important things that ARE NOT modeled on the AH N1k-2J.
1) The Unique Flap System
2) The Highly Unreliable Gear
3) The Unreliable Engine
If these things were modeled, not only would the N1k-2j be more realistic, but I think the numbers would decrease.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
From tour 26:
AkDejaVu has 0 kills of N1K2 and 0 deaths by N1K2
I dont think anyone with such extensive experience with the aircraft in question should be posting other peoples numbers.
I was 4:0 against N1K2s in Tour26. I got all my kills of them with an F6F-5. You see, you were looking for my stats with the wrong in-game ID. I don't believe I was doing the same thing with JoeCrip.
Once again... the story is either embelished or the pilot is mistaken as to who/what plane shot him down.
AKDejaVu
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AKDejaVu
Check my stats me (109e-4) vs (nik2).
:D
PS (check gameID KoolAid)
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Actually... with a little digging... the pilot may have been mistaken about what he was flying.
JoeCrip died to an N1K2 while flying a Bf109F-4 in tour 27. I do believe this has to be at least 20 days after the release of 1.09 too.
What he didn't mention was that he was 17:3 against N1K2s in the previous tours with his only deaths to them coming in a Dora, a P-38 and an M3.
Getting tired of people pulling one shining example of an event in the MA and treating it like the norm. Then... if they feel the story didn't quite have enough umph... adding a tad bit.
And even if its an honest mistake (most likely is.. E4 vs F4) My question to the author of the post... how many early war A6M5bs did you kill with that dora of yours last tour? How is that any different?
AKDejaVu
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"N1K is a crutch for poor flying?"
Yes.
"Does that mean if I strap on an N1K I'll get fur on my teeth and be able to kill anyone in the arena?"
Not anyone, but very likely a lot of them with minimal effort. N1k is a point and shoot plane, not very different from those I see in Fighter Ace and MSCFS games on "easy" flight settings.
This plane shows no control problems unless you get it to below 30 mph. Can dive to very high speeds (near 500mph) and still be able to pull 5+ g's without shedding wings and still retain amazingly decent control of it beyond 420mph. AH does not seem to model its automatic butterfly flaps either (which would add a lot of drag, albeit increasing its turn rate a bit at lower speeds) either. Odd thing for a plane Saburo Sakai described as having "treacherous" flight characteristics aint it?
IMO, this plane as it is in AH is a crutch for the clueless and a viagra prescription for those with some skills. The little demon on my right shoulder says its so as a marketing scheme to keep all the arcade sim flyers in the game.. and the other little demon on my left shoulder is too busy hacking their chutes to pieces with his rusty nail clipper. *G* :D
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I'm just glad we have enough manly, barrel-chested he-men to make up for those silly people that want to fly every plane in the set...
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TAC, another point to consider is how light the NIK really is. This bird has an even power-to-weight ratio (which is a good thing) and it's acceleration and climb ability with high E is amazing because of it's light weight. It doesn't climb like the G10 or La-5/7, but it can zoom like a UFO.
This plane is the Porsche of cars - that being said any idiot can look good in a porsche. A race car driver in a porsche is lethal and that is proven by GTR and other expert NIK drivers.
DejaVu - it's not the stats that makes the NIK such an annoying bird, it's the fact that it should be perked. It's an amazing fighting machine, more so than the P-51D, Spit IX, or the Dora.
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I will dive through hoards of red cons to get at a Niki. Killing one gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over...then I change my pants
(http://ubbsmile.free.fr/smileys/blowingup.gif) xBAT
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Originally posted by Vruth
This plane is the Porsche of cars
No, Porshe is the Porshe of cars.
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by laz
And if this n1k dives on you from average n1k alt (about 30k) , what do you do then widewing? =)
What I always do: Dodge the initial attack, extend on course exactly opposite of con. Should he climb for reposition, I reserve option of heading for ground level where the hard deck restricts his freedom of maneuver. The attacker will either head off for an easier target, or he will screw up, kill his E and pay for his folly.
Unless I make a mistake, high nikis are no problem that can't be handled.
My regards,
Widewing
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highest n1k ive seen was at 22k .. and it was the ONLY person to take it that high (HISPD) :)
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DejaVu - it's not the stats that makes the NIK such an annoying bird, it's the fact that it should be perked. It's an amazing fighting machine, more so than the P-51D, Spit IX, or the Dora.
LOL! I've never had a N1K2 escape before. Once they are commited they are in. Can't say the same about the P-51, la-7, 190s, P-47s or P-38s.
What is it that the N1K2 does best of all planes in the MA? I know why its popular... decent turning... decent climb... decent speed... decent guns. It is not #1, #2 or even #3 in any of those categories. Sure someone's going to site e-retention... but that will be a "feel" kinda thing with zero film supporting their claims. It accels in zero of the tangibles... much like the Spitfire Mk IX.
The N1K2 is a good plane... its nothing special.
AKDejaVu
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Actually... let's just look at the initial post in this thread and ask if there is any other aircraft that would have creamed that combination of planes?
As an F6F-5 pilot... I would have loved to stumble across that horde.
How is the fact that it was an N1K2 any more or less significant?
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Vruth
This plane is the Porsche of cars - that being said any idiot can look good in a porsche. A race car driver in a porsche is lethal and that is proven by GTR and other expert NIK drivers.
Do you have an idea what your talking about? Anyone half familiar with racing "Ass engined Nazi slot cars" or even racing in general conceedes that the 911 in all its incarnations is the most difficult car to race/drive... however it is also the most rewarding if done properly. A Viper or Corvette can be considered an N1k - a Porsche 911 is a thing of beauty and driving one to its full potential is about as difficult as turnfighting a Zeke in a P47D-30 at 150 IAS.
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WHAT? When is the last time you've driven a Porsche Saurdaukar? My friend's boxter is as easy to drive as a Chevette.
The NIK-2J is a amazing fighting machine. As a P-51 driver, nothing pleases me more than poofing the dweebs. But often I get lured in by sharks in these newbie planes with lethal results.
DejaVu, know what the difference between the NIK and a F6F is? The F6F has 6 50 cals and the NIK has 4x20 mm Type 99 Model 2 cannons. Imagine how lethal the F6F would be if it had Hispano's? :eek:
V
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If it had 4 it'd probably be roughly 10 times more lethal, and it would be easily the most used plane in the game.
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I've not had any fighter in my sites take a sustained .50 cal burst and live. That group of planes would have been candy for 1/2 of the arena. It has nothing to do with the N1K2 armament... and everything to do with the fact that its the MA and late/mid war rides are going to encounter early war rides.
Really... what late war ride would have had trouble in a situation where 4 early war planes were preoccupied with 4 other early war planes? Name one.
Hell.. name one mid war ride that would have had trouble there.
AKDejaVu
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Shortly after 1.09 was released, I upped in a 109F-4. I flew at low alt with a full fuel load and found myself face to face with about 5 109Es and a handful of other planes.
Atleast 3 of the 109Es engaged me, after a series of loops and dives towards the ground (remember, we were basically co-alt), I had forced 2 of them to auger into the mountain side and was now in a very slow climb almost stalling. Both 109Es were within firing range, but their engines didn't produce enough power to keep up with my climb.
Both 109E4s bit the dust at the hand of a 109F4 with no gondolas.
It matters not what plane you engage in certain planes, the pilot matters.
Last tour the N1K2-J had 9.01% of the kills in the arena. While the P51D had 9.43% of the arenas kills. So you Runstang pilots better watch what you ask for.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=448236)
-SW
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Originally posted by Vruth
WHAT? When is the last time you've driven a Porsche Saurdaukar? My friend's boxter is as easy to drive as a Chevette.
V
Actually I've been a Porsche owner for the better part of 5 years now. The Boxster is a fine car, but it is not a 911 - the handeling characteristics are completely different. A Boxter is a mid engine, transaxle auto - very easy to drive aggressively (even easier to drive are the 924/944/968 Porsche's as they are front engine, rear transmission - this achieves a better weight distribution than even the Boxster by keeping all the weight on the ends as opposed to the middle) - a 911 is rear engine, rear transmission auto. This translates into viscious trailing throttle oversteer and very very touchy corner in braking. In laymans terms - if you are driving the car at its limits (hopefully on a track) lifting the throttle too quickly at turn in - even without touching the brake will result in you looking at the cars that were behind you - this time through your windshield. If you are familiar with SCCA/PCA/GT racing then you know when a Viper or similar front engine, front transmission car loses control he simply skids off the track and hopefully makes a safe stop before a wall - a 911 will turn completely around and nine times out of ten stay on the track - the rear is very unstable (Thats why racing 911's have almost comical wings on the rear - to try and keep maximum downforce where it is needed most) I have spun numerous 911's and have enough experience in those built between the mid 70's and late 80's to know they are NOT easy to drive. The 996's are a slightly differnt story, as the Turbo's have all wheel drive and PSM (Porsche Stability Management) and the Carrera is the best liquid cooled 911 yet. However - no one races the new Turbos because all wheel drive is a disadvantage for sprint races (<1 hour) and PSM is always turned off - it is a detriment to very serious drivers who want to drive the car as opposed to the car driving them. (PSM is kind of at odds with Porsche's draw anyway - most buy the cars because they enjoy complete control over a challenging vehicle.) Anyone who hops into a pre 996 (911, 930, 964, 993) expecting to rule the road with minimal effort will usually learn his lesson by payment of check (I have avioded this so far, knock knock)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
"Ass engined Nazi slot cars"
Copyright P.J. O'Rourke :)
-Sikboy
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<*b*>
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Originally posted by Vruth
DejaVu - it's not the stats that makes the NIK such an annoying bird, it's the fact that it should be perked. It's an amazing fighting machine, more so than the P-51D, Spit IX, or the Dora.
Show me one solid shred of 'fact' that shows the Niki should be perked? If you're going to perk the Niki, might as well perk every plane in the game. This 'mystique' of the Niki is just that, it's not an uber-plane and is very easy to shoot down if you are smart and use good tactics.
Ack-Ack
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Very good sikboy. =)
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Dead on about the non 4WD 911 series cars.
My Dad did alot of amateur racing. He was very frugal except for cars. Back in the late '80s he had one of the only real deal 930 Ruf in the Northern half of CA. (and back then this was a very, very hot car comparitively speaking).
So my Dad, when I got my license on my 16th BDay, gave me one of 2 gifts...
1. Pay my car insurance for 1 year.
2. Take me to high performance driving school in the 930 , specifically so I would learn 'rear engine handling 101' in the rear engine car I was most likely to need it in. I would not be allowed to drive the 930 if I didn't choose this option.
...well you can guess what I took. 8)
Now this was by far the most $$$ my Ps had ever, ever spent on my for a present - by a factor of 10 or more. So I was kind of puzzled. On the way to the school I asked my Dad 'why' and without any fanfare he replied 'You'll be dead before the year was up if you dont take this course and you drive this car'.
But to show you how wise he really is - I rarely got to drive the thing unless it was on a track, and never alone. 8)
"Nothing is more dangerous than a little knolwedge", right? 8)
Mike/wulfie14
p.s. I thought I read somewhere that HTC uses perk points to modify arena presence of a given aircraft. In this context I'd say don't perk the N1K-2 J.
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930 RUF.... drooooooooooollllllllllllllll llllllll.... I was a step away from purchasing a BEAUTIFUL red 86 930 a couple years back - no RUF, but man that thing sang. Nothing like a flat six starting up - the perfect mix of exhaust note, fans, and belts. =) Then of course you get it out on the road and put the pedal down... nothing happens... wait 1.. 2 seconds, tach runs past 3500 RPM and a whine starts to build from behind you - WHOOSH!! Youre off care of Porsches magical single KKK27 Turbocharger. =)