Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -towd_ on May 29, 2000, 11:06:00 PM
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howdy jsut stirin up touble but i was wondering if you ever considered that they did field mods like this..( turbos wired to "on" position way below rated alt) seems like they were gettin alot of proformance out of this mod this was a practice where they burned up engines with alot of extra power cause they had to should it be modeled?
-----The Wildcats' turbochargers, not to be engaged below 10,000 feet but wired open anyway, wore out the engines in 25 to 50 flying hours.-----
is there any way we could have tat option baby? f4f from hell!!!
i got it here
http://www.thehistorynet.com/AviationHistory/articles/1998/09982_text.htm (http://www.thehistorynet.com/AviationHistory/articles/1998/09982_text.htm)
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Howbout 190 with turbo ? I'm sure you would love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/Pics/turbo_1190v18.jpg)
Staga
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-30-2000).]
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From a couple of accounts I have read it actually went the other way too. Units would "de-rate" or "de-tune" the engines to get more life out of them.
Staga, Never seen a pic of a 190 with a scoop like that. What is it, and what were they testing on it? Some kind of turbo-supercharger?
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Towd, someone is blowing smoke up your ass. No turbos on F4U. F6F had one prototype with a turbo R 2600. There was one F4F turbo prototype as well.
Verm that's one of the Fw 190C prototypes with a Hirth turbosupercharger in the belly. They later morphed into the Ta 152C but without the turbo. They never go the turbo to work due to metallurgy problems - their high-temperature alloys didn't cut it.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Verm that is the prototype of the Fw190C, with a turbocharged BMW801 engine.
Yes, that scoop is from the turbosupercharger. Tank stopped the develop of the model due to metallurgical low quality, and changed to DB603 and Ju213 engines, leading to the development of the D series and Ta152.
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ROFL I see funked said it before...
me and my fixation on answering the posts too soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Verm, that was the FW-51D (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In the Battle of Midway thew F4F's had thier turbos wired on. The increase in performance was in life-death situations against the Japanese aircraft was warranted in the eyes of many. Easier to replace an engine than a pilot.
-Westy
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Westy more likely they are talking about the superchargers not actual turbochargers, theres is a huge difference.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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If you want a manly Pratt R2800 with a turbosupercharger you need only look to the P47D, 2600hp and it held that power for a long ways. The other supercharged pratts could be set at 60 mp or 65 mp for 2250 or 2300 hp. Perhaps that is what you were talking about?
lazs
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Yep Indian, no turbo on F4F. Sounds like they probably had the planes running on high blower full time, which might give some added low altitude performance at the expense of engine life.
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Funked,
I think he meant the F4U-3 or -3B or maybe even the F2G? Everyone knows abou the the F2G because of the racing history but the F4U-3 is not as well known. It had a similar engine to that of the P-47 with a turbo supercharger in the belly with a large scoop. This delivered 2800HP up past 40,000Ft. This aircraft could reach 480MPH at 40K with
"plenty of climb left in her" according to test pilot Bill Horan. Vought built at least two of these A/C and delivered them to the Navy . However Goodyear built 26 of them and delievered them to the Navy in June 1945. They were in Naval inventory until 1949 being used for high altitude testing. Since there were almost as many F4U-3 built as Ta-152 why don't we model it too? Yeah that's a great idea. That will give the Ta-152 something to do while your all by yourself at 45K.
F4UDOA
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Ahh you are right, the XF4U-3 and XF4U-3B had turbo engines. But this was a pair of prototypes, not a production version that saw combat. Comparison with the Ta 152H is ridiculous.
P-47M and N were production planes that saw combat, and will give the Ta 152H plenty to worry about. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-30-2000).]
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Another off-topic... Sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Kinda funny Oldsmobile.... Say charged and MW-50 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://www.442.com/jetfire.html (http://www.442.com/jetfire.html)
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Correct if I'm wrong:
Turbo charger: exhaust driven charger where turbine assembled in exhaust pipe gives power to other turbine assembled in intake manifold (like Saab (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
Super charger: In WW2 usually gear or axle driven centrifugal charger. Charger takes its power from crankshaft.
Then there were something called "turbo compound (?)" which was used at least in Lockheed Constellation after ww2.
If I remember right it has 3 turbines in each engines exhaust pipes which power was added to give more power straight to crankshaft. These ones were quite fragile ?
http://www.saveaconnie.org/SuperG.htm (http://www.saveaconnie.org/SuperG.htm)
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-30-2000).]
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turbosupercharger is the full word for an exhaust-driven supercharger (aka turbo).
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-30-2000).]
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I stand corrected for the error on the F4F.
But.
I noticed no one denied that ole Tank tried to copy the P-51!!!
<g,d,rlh>
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Turboscrusa"(/#/".... NAaah... Turbo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LOL Westy, I doubt that - the Fw 190C was designed before the Mustang had even begun operations. Also the shape and size of the belly pod is a lot different if you see it from another angle, the internal configuration is different, and the purpose is different as well.
On the Mustang, the belly pod houses the radiator and oil cooler.
On the Fw 190C the radiator is an annular type which is integral with the engine cowling. The oil cooler is contained in a scoop under the nose.
The Fw 190C belly pod contains the turbosupercharger as well as an intercooler. The engine exhaust is directed to a large pipe on each side of the plane. The pipes (one on each side) go over the wing root and down into the belly pod.
The aft portion of the pod contains the turbo, and there is a vent at the back of the pod for the wastegate.
The front half of the pod contains the air intake ducts and an air-air intercooler. Cold air enters through ducts on either side of the front opening and is directed to the turbocharger where it is compressed. The compressed air is then passed through the intercooler and forward (see the pipe under the plane) to the mechanical supercharger attached to the engine.
The intercooler takes cold air from the center of the forward pod inlet and there is a flap in the bottom of the pod for hot air exhaust.
It's interesting to compare this to the system used on the P-47. Both systems are identical in function and nearly identical in layout. However instead of having all this equipment hanging out in the breeze and creating drag, Seversky built the plane around it, which was a much better solution. Tank had designs of this type as well, but due to the failure of the prototype, they were never constructed.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Damn,
how the hell do you guys know so much about these obscure planes? I can fly em, and I know about them some but you guys are frigging amazing.
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Zigrat:
1. A lot of books.
2. A lot of coffee.
3. A lot of free time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Turbo Compound engines used 3 exhaust driven turbines and a hydraulic gearbox to add extra horsepower to the crankshaft. meaning that they extracted the least bit of energy form the axhaust gas...
These engines had the best Specific fuel consumption of all aircraft engines ever built (they were hidiously complicated tho)
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Thanks for the great info! I'd never seen the "C" before and no I was not serious about an similarities with the P-51 at all.
I've got to rebuild my book collection again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-Westy
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Originally posted by funked:
Zigrat:
1. A lot of books.
2. A lot of coffee.
3. A lot of free time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
He forgot to add:
No wife.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(No life? ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) Just kidding!
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Cavity search for Ripsnort!
They're already waiting for Pongo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Westy, the most interesting books I have on Fw development are:
"Kurt Tank: Focke-Wulf's Designer and Test Pilot" by Wolfgang Wagner
Most interesting of the three, includes interviews with Tank. Some problems with the translation though - errors in some tables and some of the technical terms are misused. Has more flight test data than the others.
"Focke-Wulf Fw 190 & Ta 152: Aircraft & Legend" by Heinz Nowarra
Probably the most technically detailed of the three. But again there are some flaws in the translation. There are some definite contradictions between this one and Wagner's book. Nowarra has an earlier book "The Focke-Wulf 190, A Famous German Fighter" that is less technically oriented but not as good IMHO.
"Focke-Wulf Fw 190: Workhorse of the Luftwaffe" by Jay P. Spenser
Most scholarly of the three, has a great bibliography. Deals with the restoration of the Smithsonian's F-8 but has a LOT of info on captured 190's and use of 190's in Schlacht units.
Only Wagner's book is still in print in the US, but you can find the others from www.abebooks.com (http://www.abebooks.com)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-31-2000).]