Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: leonid on May 29, 2000, 11:30:00 PM
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I can only imagine what it must be like to go to work every weekday, turn on the computer, and have to look at this crapola. I think by the time Pyro got back from Vegas and returned to work he realized that he needed another vacation.
You know, we may all think we're one big familia here, and maybe in a few ways we are, but just remember, if we're a family we're a frickin' BIG family. Do you people honestly think that any human being can withstand the continuous complaints of over 100+ fellow human beings on a daily basis? Get real! Basically, you're doing the dirty deed, whether you want to believe it, or not. The slow kill, the bleed. Keep it up.
And don't give me any 'it's a business' crap. We're talking about people here, dammit. Like you and me. When I stick a pin in you, you go "Ouch!", right? When I stick a hundred pins in you every day, you'll get real tired from the pain (I know, I have two tattoos - argh).
Remember that for every whine you post here, there's another 40 similar ones out there that same day, so if you really have to whine, then think about that, and act accordingly. Take a step back, understand the situation, and get the facts straight, then if you're still compelled, decide if it's worth posting at this time, or if it should wait until more is known. When you finally do decide to post a whine, keep it as clean as possible, and only state what you know, keeping any assumptions on the shelf.
Just remember, you're writing this to a GD person who's sitting somewhere, buried in other peoples' moans, trying to keep their sanity. And when you've finished that post, feeling pretty good about getting that load off your chest, and take off to deal with the real world, realize that somewhere that post of yours just entered someone elses real world.
We're all just people here, that's all.
And if anyone replies here w/o reading this post through to the end, I'll do my best to slam you so hard, you'll wanna find where I live - argh.
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Dammo.
Well said; brother Leonid.
<S>!
Hang
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I'm with ya! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...Maybe Pyro/HTC should create a *Whine* forum...That way we (and HTC) don't have to sift through the posts to see what's worth reading (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..It'll prolly make replies to whiners easier too.."put it in the Whiners forum" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)...
Ex.
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I'm with ya! ...Maybe Pyro/HTC should create a *Whine* forum...That way we (and HTC) don't have to sift through the posts to see what's worth reading
lol! idea is great (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but imao there should be NO REPLY button (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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*Very* well said Leonid. I'm definately guilty of the above.
I don't think anyone should take this stuff too seriously though. Mostly it seems like an intellectual tete a tete in here. Sometimes it makes for an amusing read and sometimes it's fun to take part in it. I would hope HTC takes it with the appropriate grain of salt.
The flat out pure base whines *have* been gettin' the bulk of the play in here lately though. And your post helped me see things in a way I hadn't given much thought to. Thanks. I'll try to temper the urge to fire off ill thought out replys so quickly in the future.
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Stop whining about the whiners (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Naso
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/signature.jpg)
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Totally agree. Sure would like to see more discussions on tactics instead. Like ...
How to stop crashing on takeoff? - Stay in the tower.
Stop getting shot down?- Stay in the tower.
Stop crashing on landing?- Stay in the tower.
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/sour.jpg)
[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Whining does point out bugs/flaws in the game...remember, Pyro did say he found "something" with the guns on the F4U-1C.
Quote:
"For example, I spent yesterday afternoon going over weapons modeling in detail and turned up a few things..."
Food for thought.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Oooh there's a good idea lets not whine/improve the game at all. So instead of whining we'll just leave when we are frustrated .. yah I think HTC would prefer that.
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HaHa,
I think there's a difference between whining and expressing a concern about something in the game. It's all in how one goes about expressing that concern that will eventually label it a "whine" or a "Constructive suggestion".
Sarcastic posts like yours don't help, either.
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Haha, the pitfalls of whining are best described by Pyro in regards to "Quitting":
Pyro:
"What you complain about is in my area of responsibility, so I'll give you my viewpoint. My interest is not in continuously changing the game, it's in advancing it. So I don't like to knee-jerk changes in until I'm convinced it is the proper action. On issues that are not clearly bugs, this may take some time.
The downside of this is when people go off the deep end. For example, I spent yesterday afternoongoing over weapons modeling in detail and turned up a few things. Good news? Well maybe in that case, but maybe not in the overall scheme of things. Why? Because once somebody goes off the deep end, any changes that come about will be perceived as a result of their action. That perception will frustrate the majority of players who feel the loudest voices are the only ones listened to and will serve to reinforce that as a means to an end. That will degrade this community and our relationship with it. Alienation is a bad thing.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-30-2000).]
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As Pyro said:
[misquote]
the loudest voices are the only ones listened to
[/misquote]
I start my whine:
I WANT MY PLANE INVULNERABLE, AND WITH AIM-9 AND RADAR AND BIG BIG BIG GUNS WITH AUTO-TARGETING BULLETS!!!!
...OR I QUIT !!!
eh eh... now my wish will be soon satisfied. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW, "seriously" (make sense?? dunno if correct word (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif) ) if the issue is to solve proved bugs, for improved realism and/or balance, or new nice gadget for all players, asking it's a good idea, IMHO. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Naso
L'è buna!!
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/signature.jpg)
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Good post Leonid ! Pointing out bugs is constructive... in my opinion a lot of the rants here lately aren't .
On Sunday I got tired of getting shot down ( I'm not very good at the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) , and decided to do something else for a while. I played some Jane's WW2 Fighters, some EAW and even went online to play some WB's ( yikes ) in the new full realism arena......... for my money none of it held a candle to Aces High.
For what it's worth ( and obviously it's not worth much........just look at my score (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) I have flown for a regional airline for the last 21 years and have approximately 24,000 hours in various types but mostly the Dash 8 and the Convair 580. I do a lot of panel reworks and flight dynamix adjustments on FS98 and even that can be very frustrating and time consuming , so I can only imagine what the small group at HTC must be going through trying to keep us all happy. It just astounds me that they have created such a quality product in such a short period of time .....and it's just going to get better and better ! By comparison , it took me 2 years to create a Dash 8 panel that was realistic enough to be useful to me as a training aid when preparing for a sim ride , and that was starting out with someone elses basic design . A few months ago when the first beta came out I remember just trying to keep the 109 airborne ( remember that sandy coloured deathtrap), and now I can get shot down on a regular basis in my great looking, great flying G10 .............I couldn't be happier !!
We all want realism or we wouldn't be here , and in my opinion we have it. Aces High flys better and looks better than the full motion , full immersion , multi-million dollar sim we have for our check rides at our airline. Yes there are bugs and yes there are things we'd like to see added ( there's nothing wrong with trying to make a good thing better), but let's appreciate what we already have , look forward to what we're going to get and maybe be a little more patient and a little less demanding. Personally , I haven't found anything better out there , and doubt that I will .
PS...if there's any other FS98 nuts out there I'd be happy to share any of my planes and panels......got a great Dash 8 left & right seat panel.
[This message has been edited by escafe (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Ripsnort,
Since your response is civil, I'll respond in kind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Read my post again. No, actually, read it till the end. Then you'll see that I'm not advocating that people stop posting their opinions, only that they think a little before jumping around like a spoiled 10yr. old.
HaHa,
Follow the same instructions I gave Ripsnort, smartass. Oh, and may you find yourself in a sandstorm behind a camel's bellybutton (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I suspect that HT and Pyro have a pretty well defined roadkill filter. That is, they can probably handle all the BS plus some, that this community can and does belch up.
I give them credit despite the F4U-1C intro...nobody is perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Yeager
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Hang inspects the hotdogs..
<flip>
"Nope.. they ain't done yet. Yeag.. yah sure that was starter fluid??"
Hang pops another beer, waits expectantly..
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I believe it's everyones right to have a public forum from which to show their hineys'.
I guess that makes this BBS "The Greatest Show on Earth". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hi Hang (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rude Out!
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You took the words out of my mouth Leo.
Some people seem to think the UBB should be the place to exercise their verbal diarreah as a hobby. Others seem to hang out here with express purpose of picking fights. others seem INCAPABLE of putting in a post that isn' accusatory, inflammatory or plain uncalled for in terms of tone.
People need to get a grip around here.
I call your attention to one thing, if you think this crap doesn't get to HTC.
When Pyro and HT write replies some of their mood and state of mind is in it like a fingerprint. When things go too far or they are really tired their spelling, grammar and
level of reply declines. If you think this stuff has not affected them take a look at their replies in the last 7 days.
HTC you doing great. You have my money, and my support for what your doing. It's your game and I am a guest playing here. I will do my best to support you and aid the people who play your game. Thank you for all the work you have done to put it here for me.
Sorrow
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Yowsah! WTG Sorrow!
<hastily plucks the dogs off the grill>
"These are toasted just right.. Hey; Rude; pass me them steaks! Hmmm, how d'yah think HiTech's gonna want his?... Seared; Rare, or Well Done???"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Torque is still sitting by phone waiting for Hang's call.Tap...tap...tap...tap...
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WTG leonid
with the increase of whines latetly i think this was a well expressed wake up call. constructive critism improves the game. whiners suck. so does the increased finger pointing and "I quit" threads.
if everyone thought out their posts we could have a very valuable and cohesive community.
whiners just start trouble.
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What about Entertainers ??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hossa Leo,
well spoken (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
blitz
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Good post leo, OTOH, the people most likely to post indiscriminate,argumentative posts are also the ones who will in all likelyhood completely miss the point, They will be easy to spot, since the replies they make to this thread will not be well thought out, nor contain any deep meaning (no, anal is not deep) however since they will be willing to step right up and show themselves, it can be used constructively by giving us a guidebook, if you will, of who to ignore and who to read.
If anyone's offended by my suggestion, may I inquire, why? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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What some people seem to miss is that it's the COMMUNITY as much as the product that makes AH special. HTC is responsible for the quality of the product, but WE are responsible for the quality of the community.
I think of the AH community as a local pub, with the owners (HTC) right there tending bar. They might not have the brand of hot sauce that you think is best, and the dart board might have a bad spot, but most everyone is having a great time hanging out with old friends and meeting new ones. So, do you bring in a bottle of your favorite hot sauce for them to try, try to find a mix of theirs that you like, or do you just squeak about it every night and threaten to take your business down the street?
I've done it both ways, and I have a good idea what works. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 06-01-2000).]
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Hey popeye.. good idea. Pass me that hot sauce.
"YO; STEAKS 'r DONE!"
...and will somebody call Torque.. these weenies are gettin cold. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Leonid,
Do you come from a big family? If you do than you know that all they do is squeak at each other (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really think that Pyro and HT just ignore most of the true whinners, you know the "this is roadkill, this games sux, your just idiots" kinda posts. I just don't see the folks at HTC losing a lot of sleep over that kinda thing.
As far as pointing out problems in the FM, guns, artwork etc. well that, I'm sure, is welcomed by the designers. As long as it's done in a constructive manner, I'm sure that when time is available they investigate those areas.
But as far as treating people with the respect that we all would like to be treated with, your right. If you have a problem with any aspect of this or any other game, feel free to post your thoughts. Just remember that if you expect anyone to take your concerns seriously, make them in a civil manner and provide some solid data to support your claim.
Sharky
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Amen Leo. The ones that are starting to drive me nuts are the unsubstantiated flight model whines. People that have a pet plane, and will never believe that it didn't fly like an F-16. No matter what the laws of physics say, no matter what REAMS of flight test data say, they will still find some anectdote to fuel their fantasy and start a whiny thread.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-01-2000).]
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A little unfair. Most of us who whine about our fav planes dont want an F16 equivilent. We would be happy if it flew like say a .......Spit IX
Oh thats right..that is like a 16..
and suprise suprise thats that you fly...
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM