Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: StSanta on May 30, 2000, 02:58:00 AM
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Hey all.
A few incidents lately have left me chuckling some and raised my eyebrowse. But let me first explain my take on fuel management and fighting in AH and then address the main thing.
When I fly in AH, I consider fuel life and sometimes a necessary evil. Without it, I perish in flames if enemies are nearby. With too much of it, I am heavy and at a disadvantage.
Whenever I've come from my engagtement, I immediately check fuel status. Can I go around again? if yes, what are my options - will I be so low on fuel that high enemy contacts might be a problem? How close is the nearest friendly base? And questions like that.
Now, if I run low on fuel or have too little fuel to gain alt to fight higher enemies on equal terms, that's my dumb problem - I made the choice, I stick for the consequences. if I am dumb enough to run outta fuel, again my problem, and the pilot who gets the kill doesn't just get an easy kill - he gets a stupid kill from my perspective and i will not degrade it. It's a fair kill caused by my ignorance.
Now, a few times I've run into people who've said "but I wwas outta fuel, you shot me you coward" or people who have ditched when they've run outta fuel, wlell knowing they're miles and miles away from a friendly airfield. Of course, now and then we get our fuel lines shot up, and occasionally we forget about fuel management or end up in very long fights, but these things are not what I am getting at.
An exampole would be people who loiter around an enemy field and are spotted by a co alt enemy aircraft who goes for the chase. The best example being a 109 enemy, since it has incredible climb rate and is a good interceptor. Some of these pilots (not the interceptors) realize their predicament and either fight for it or try to return to base. Others make a brief fight before they decide that enough is enough and "none of this BS" and then tries to ditch a perfectly functioning aircraft which still has some remaining fuel.
To the last category, I feel I must hold you to my standards; you made the choice, you eat the bitter pill. Don't expect me to go for a quick kill if it's just the two of us and I am in an aircraft in which attacks must be carefully planned and not rushed.
I wonder; is the general setiment in this community that "fight til fuel runs out then try to ditch then call the fight a BS fight"?
I sure hope not. It is my hope that many share my views on fuel management/bringing the stuff unto yourself.
Thoughts anyone?
Sorry for long post, Badgerism has gotten me.
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 05-30-2000).]
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The only people I don't shoot at are people in chutes, generally. If you are ditching, you are a target, IMHO. If you ditch, because you fought until you ran out of fuel, too bad. If you are ditching, because your fuel was damaged in combat, then maybe you should have bailed, and gave up on the ditch. To me, there are no reasons why you shouldn't be a target, unless you bail. Again, MHO.
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(http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero/5GIAP.jpg)
leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 05-30-2000).]
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I agree with Leonid.
I only fly the C.205V, a kite that drinks more than a Lamborghini sport car.
Fuel consumption is a nitemare for me and my squaddies, especially when we fly long fighter sweeps.
We have to monitor continuously our fuel gauges and disengage whem the time comes.
If I dont disengage I'm aware I will die or get captured, too bad for me. Same thing for my foe. I'll shoot down any glider foe.
GATT
4°Stormo Caccia
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/signature1.jpg)
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What Leonid said, only targets i dont shoot at is chutes.
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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Me personaly, I will in general allow a damaged plane to ditch or withdraw, confident in the knowledge I have won the fight. So what if no score for killing the poor guy. I will then in general radio him for a good fight (I find them to be more in a mood to talk when I let them live).
However, I harbor no ill will toward someone who finnishes me off when I'm obviously out of the fight. I do sometimes wonder at the intelect of someone who would rather blow his alt on chasing me to the deck, but hey, it's their nickle.
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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels
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I do sometimes wonder at the intelect of someone who would rather blow his alt on chasing me to the deck, but hey, it's their nickle
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) wmutt,
it depends on fighting style. Personally I never blow my alt for anyone, if there are dangerous bandits or bogeys around (VIS or radar I mean). I try to fly and fight as close to the real thing as I can.
But I cant blame guys who want to enjoy the game chasing intact foes or gliders on the deck, even if they have someone on their six and/or above them. And they dont waste their nickles. Above all they are targets for other guys. So, be tolerant and kind uh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Lenoid.....quote by you>
"The only people I don't shoot at are people in chutes"
You are missing out on the finest thrill online,and BTW, when has the chute turned green? There ALL RED
Case in point: This nice fellow I let ride in his point bloated pig chute to the ground GLADLY shot me ditching 5 minutes later, outta a "fuel managment" farce cover excuse.
I say as the 523rd rated pilot, screw everyone, you score turds. Score means nothing, right?
I will kill every chute, stay outta the silk if you don't want to whine.
:0) This is a blast...soory.
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I guess I am old school in this arguement.
Fuel management, is just as important as E management, good SA, and being a good stick and rudder.
It is quite amusing to see pilots that take light fuel loads to improve performance, complain when they run out, and then you shoot them down.
Actually its one of my favorite tactics. Get a Pony and drag a Spitfire or 109 around like a kite until they run out of fuel, then pounce (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Originally posted by gatt:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) wmutt,
And they dont waste their nickles. Above all they are targets for other guys. So, be tolerant and kind uh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Yeah, I guess that did come across stronger than I meant for it to. I didn't mean they were 'wasting' their nickles, I just meant it was their nickle to do with what they want (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I agree, the main goal is to have fun. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels
[This message has been edited by Greg 'wmutt' Cook (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Hey Creamo.
You dtiched a perfectly good plane with fuel left because you'd put yourself in a bad situation.
Just prior to that you said "I do not have fuel for this BS" (exact words) when I *didn't* go down to fight your way. You won't get me to turn fight you in a N1K when I am in a 109G10. That's suicide.
I wonder why you're so upset about this. It was a nice gesture of you not to shoot my chute, but one I would expect being the rule rather than the exception for the majority of guys here.
I've been polite all day. Could you please say what your problem is, as I am not getting it?
Is it that I strafed you as you ditched an aircraft which seemingly had fuel left? Well, you shouldn't have put yourself in that situation. Is it that I did it after you graciously had let me live? Well, if you had bailed, I would not have shot you in the chute. If scores aren't important, why did you NOT bail, if you were outta fuel?
It's just not consistent.
Now, I realize that this has put you on StSanta's Chute Shoot mode. I guess we just see it differently.
Do you let someone ditch who has fuel left because he has put himself in a bad situation? We were approximately co alt when I spotted your dot. I then wepped it, gained alt, you spotted me and dove away. I went in after and that was when you'd had enough.
I've tried to ditch and been strafed several times, and it is my own fault for dying; could have bailed. No hard feelings. On the other hand, I've tried having my engine shot out, then grabbed enough alt to bail, only to see the enemy come back and shoot me in my chute. I calmy write down the handle on my Chutes To Kill list, and that's that.
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
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When I first came to AH, I had an honour code. I never strafed chutes. I never killed no-fuel enemies that declared it.
Now after being chute killed, and no fuel killed, and been victim of kamikaze attacks, I dont give a rats donut about honour code. I shoot at no fuel enemies, I shoot F4U chutes (and soon I also will to Nikis (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
2 weeks ago I laughed till the end. A La5 bounced me from avobe when I was in my 190. I made him overshoot and rolled back on him, getting a snapshot. His wing fell at once and he started to smoke down...but I saw tha he was trying to ditch the machine. So I dived on him ,finished the La and zoomed back up...
The guy started to call me everything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) he said i was a coward, that he had no wing. I told him that I knew he had no wing...If someone is SO stupid to bounce me and fail the bounce then I'll kill him regardless he has intestinal problems, headache , or he wants to pee.
THe stupid bounced me, missed the bounce, gets shot down...and he still calls me coward? LOL
Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I don't shoot chutes... everything else is fair game IMO. I'm with verm on this one... fueleconomy is part of your SA, if you don't care about watching your fuel, don't care if you get shot down without fuel.
Bee
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leonid : I am with you guy .
I shoot to kill any and everything but chutes . (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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My opinion is if it's flyin' it's dyin'. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (I try not to shoot the chute though.) Seems to me that if you run out of fuel that's your own mistake. You should have rtbed.
Basically I'll shoot at anything that is a threat to my plane or my wingmen. A glider is perfectly capable of scoring kills, so it's a target IMO. Since you don't get kills when the enemy ditches (which would be a kill in real life) I'll sometimes finish off a plane after a fight where he tries to ditch to avoid being killed. Personally I think the majority of players obey the same rules.
My $.02. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Wandering off topic but..
Hey after much experience in the chute department (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just make it hard for chute killers, keep that freefall for as long as possible use a side view to keep better SA with the ground and after a few trys you can keep chute open time to a minimum of a few seconds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now if they can track you and be in position for that small a window of opportunity hell they deserve the chute kill.
Personally i dont feel the need for kills that bad that i will attack chutes. But then again nobody has really pisssed me off yet (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But i guess you probably all do that anyway.
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"I say as the 523rd rated pilot, screw everyone, you score turds. Score means nothing, right?
I will kill every chute, stay outta the silk if you don't want to whine.
:0) This is a blast...soory.
"
Hes not kidding....
There are people here who let guys that are out of fuel ditch?...wow.
What form of combat doenst involve degrading the otherguys ac until you have an insermountable advantage? thats like not attacking because you have alt.
Runing some one out of fuel is a specific and effective tactic in the 51. So is turning off the engine of your G10 and playing possum...
Love my new sig...
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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The other day, around A13, I engaged 'Warchild' flying a LA5. After a couple of passes I made his engine smoke black. I saw him diving for the ditch. I guess I was in a good mood, we had a nice little fight, I decided to let him ditch.
He actually dived to A13, all guns on, and vulched 2 friendlies rolling on runway before crashing on the tarmac.
The funny part is that he 'teased me' on channel 1 telling something like:' because of ur incompetence in pursuing a dogfight, two of your countrymen died'. So let me sum-up, you kill someone ditching he insults you. You let someone ditch, he insults you. ttssss....kids. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hiya Santa (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I've always been conservative about fuel. I'd rather have too much, than to run out when I need it the most. I usually load up a drop tank on my Spitfire, and take 50% or 75% internal fuel. I use the drop tank fuel for grabbin and getting to the fight. Then I release my drop tank and start fighting on internal fuel.
I don't fight until empty, because to me a successful mission is bringing my bird home. I always keep a watchful eye on fuel, and try to leave myself an avenue of escape in case I run low during a fight.
I pretty much agree with Leonid, everything is fair game to me, except for chutes.
When I bail out, I assume every plane near me has Creamo in the cockpit, so I wait until about 400ft to pull the ripcord. Never been shot in the chute yet! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.raf303.org/308/308banner.gif)
"Turning Knight & Bishop sheep into lamb chops since 1999"
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Lesse, Creamo, from California...Lazs from California...do I see a pattern here? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Signed, Ripsnort (Who has a bumper sticker in the back of his big-ass pick-up truck that says "We don't give a DAMN how they do it in California"..right next to his ....Texas...bumbersticker...)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-30-2000).]
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Hehehhee, Pongo...I love your Sig, too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Dingy's Rules of the Sky:
1) Bring enough fuel to last your ammo load then bring a bit more.
2) Maximize your advantages over the enemy and keep him from doing the same to you.
3) Dont chase a faster plane when coalt or lower.
4) Feel free to run when disadvantaged but expect to get shot at.
5) Never cut a sucker an even break.
Ya know, these were half written tongue in cheeck but after I thought about it.....this is how I approach EVERY fight.
If I were Creamo, I would have gotten frustrated trying to run that 109G10 down but realized that I do the same thing in the 51 when engaging a better turning plane.
Creamo I feel for ya but I woulda shot your sorry bellybutton too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
-Ding
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Anybody who shoots me when I'm in my kite will garner no ill will from me, regardless of my situation. Likewise, I'll shoot any enemy if they are in their kite. As soon as they bail, thats it, they're safe from me. As soon as I bail, I'd like to be left to float down to earth, reviewing where I went wrong, but I know thats too much to expect. I've only lived to bail once, and that P-38 came around to make a pass on my chute, even though I was in the middle of no where and there were two more Rooks in the furball. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Oh yeah, I'm in California too.
Sisu
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-30-2000).]
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I think we need them Carbins working for the troops that have to bail. Hell it would be fun to bail out and still be shooting. that way you could kill them damn people that bail. I kill every thing as long as its in a plane. once he bails well i figure it will take him longet this way to hit the ground and this way he has to wait to get anouther aircraft. I do have one thing to say. I am a Runner if i dont think i can win the fight. SO if you guys follow me around to the ack or run out of full because you cant give up in the attack. THEN its your brains all over the ground. Runing is now Dweebish nor is killing a Gliding plane. I have been shot down by them and smokin planes before if you in a plane your dead IMO... <<S>> to all
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VMF-212 Lancers
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how does a pilot fit an m1 carbine in a 109? lol
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Ahh well i dont care about the germans. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
FW pilots or more that arnt going to be US planes or pilots need not reply. LOL
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VMF-212 Lancers
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Frankly, this is bull. Stop complaining, I've been shot in my chute hundreds of times ,ditching,shure, even landing with ack screaming all over the place in my own base. I've blarred a whole bunchs of Fs in my house and filtered it up typed crapola as I always do. I just suck it up and hunt the son of a squeak who shot me in my chute and make him think hard before he does it again.
In closing stop complaining PERIOD. Every lilttle thing that happens here even future plans that have not come into effect I see imaginary vices . Shure the fuel system is a lil bit exagerated,shure I've grown to dislike it but there are 3 options don't play it,make it soyou need to fly 4 hours before you fight due to normal fuel ranges or stay and play it as it is .
nuff said,
Glasses(The four eyed devil)
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Pongo will respond to all my posts, no matter how bombed I am, and as I post mostly blitzed, they RARELY make sense, only to him. The next day I just laugh and shake my head....:0) You buckethead! They are silly, just read and laugh.
The rest of you, shame, shame, what could you possible understand from those 151 Bacardi ramblings?
How anyone without being there could grasp a opinion and comment, I do not know. I wasnt squeaking about a ditch kill,they all SHOULD be strafed without remorse. OBVIOUSLY.
It was how someone gains 35K of alt when 7 people are online, and call it strat, ala fuel managment.
For the record, I wasted whatever his name is and passed the chute kill just to see why people do it. There was no responce, and no big deal, kinda boring.
Then, I stayed up, to face obviously the same guy I shot down, who made 3-4 passes with superior alt, E, and advantage, with no results.
Boom, Zoom, Miss completely...no ping YAWN. It went on forever, I WAS running outta fuel.
Fellas,not to complain, but late night AH is horrid. There is 5 of us, and the G10 ALT fight vs. turn fighter fuel capacity is silly, naw,retarded.
It sucked, I didn't want to go 30 minutes outta my way to fight "Fair" with St. whatever, I forget the callsign.
Dude,strap on a turn and burner when there's a late night crowd, stop thinking your saving the planet and your clever on fuel managment, Hi ALT tactics to get a "E" advantage on one of the 7 poor bastards that happen to be online.
It isn't clever, your just spending 30 minutes getting to a point where you can almost level the field,but first hand, you still need a lotta work.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-31-2000).]
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Creamo if you dislike when someone critizes your way of flying then why do you mess with the other's way of flying.
Happens that if you love BnZ you have to climb. ITs the same 25K or 35Kk or 45K or suborbital. HE flies BnZ and he doenst have to fly TnB because you think is the fair thing when you are only 7 low cons. He spent his time to go up. You can do the same and fight him in equal conditions on you can be lazy remain low and be bounced.
Your call but dont whine about it.
<PUNT>
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Me shooting your 190 down at the same time of St. whatevers flight was double fun. And the chute kill was even better, you explode REAL good. What's yer point?
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Me shooting your 190 down at the same time of St. whatevers flight was double fun. And the chute kill was even better, you explode REAL good. What's yer point?
Is this:
sucked, I didn't want to go 30 minutes outta my way to fight "Fair" with St. whatever, I forget the callsign.
Dude,strap on a turn and burner when there's a late night crowd, stop thinking your saving the planet and your clever on fuel managment, Hi ALT tactics to get a "E" advantage on one of the 7 poor bastards that happen to be online.
It isn't clever, your just spending 30 minutes getting to a point where you can almost level the field,but first hand, you still need a lotta work
If he wants to spend 30 minutes climbing, then is his choice. Do the same and dont whine about it,and don't dare to tell him HOW must he fly and WHAT must he fly in order for YOU to have the fair fight.
HE doesnt want a fair fight he goes up in a BnZ plane...what is wrong?...you can go up too or risk the death. Again, is your choice but dont tell the others how/what must they fly.
And BTW if that happened at the same time that you did that one ping kill ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) on my 190 and shoot my chute ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I really LOL-ed in that one), then you aren't saying the truth about the people in the arena.
When I Came in for 10 minutes there were 14, 15 mwith me.
NOt 7.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-31-2000).]
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Me shooting your 190 down at the same time of St. whatevers flight was double fun. And the chute kill was even better, you explode REAL good. What's yer point?
<Dingy knocks on Creamos head>
HELLLOOO!! McFly! You need a translation?
His point is, people fly the game for different reasons. Maybe these guys enjoy grabbing alt and tapdancing on yer head.
RAMs point was if you dont like it, do the same...dont expect them to play your game just because yer impatient and blitzed on Bacardi!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Jeez!
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 05-31-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 05-31-2000).]
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{double post}
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 05-31-2000).]
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Double post, triple edit... take it easy spaz, I mean Dingy. It's just a friendly opinion of gameplay. All will be OK.
BREATHE...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Double post, triple edit... take it easy spaz, I mean Dingy. It's just a friendly opinion of gameplay. All will be OK.
BREATHE...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now yer getting into namecalling? Are you really that obnoxious or are you just trying real hard? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
<S> to those who posted intellectual, non-aggressive posts in this thread.
<MOONS> to those who rather than post something constructive feel they have to make their point by belittling those who dont see their view.
-Ding
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Creamo, looks like you're still suffering from a hangover.
In the 109, my combat altitude is 22k. If I spot a higher dot, I pull into a gentle climb and follow.
When I met you, you were slightly higher than me so I climbed. You then dived for the decks. Not my fault.
I am not a dumb pilot. I'll play the advantages when I have them. In this situation I have a running N1k lower. What I want to do is avoid his guns while scaring him enough to disallow any HO or snapshot from his part, and I did just this; my passes were to force a reaction from your part and they did.
It's ok if you hate my guts or think I am just a dweeb. But please be true to reality when it comes down to what happened.
Lonely 190 vs N1k and the 190 is slower, 190 is in trouble. I took the bitter pill along with some of your 20mm's.
Lonely N1K vs 109 at almost co alt, N1k might be in trouble, especially if low on fuel. just the way it is.
You got upset because you were chivalrous enough to let me live, but I wasn't chvalrous enough to get you away with ditching.
Hell, you put yourself in a bad position you could have avoided by just RTB, or spotting me when I was lower than you and heading for me.
Enough of this personal bit between you and me; my inquiry about fuel management was sincere and I see that I share an opinion on it with lots of guys I really respect. That's good enough for me.
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)