Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mason22 on April 20, 2000, 05:17:00 PM
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum41/HTML/000004.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum41/HTML/000004.html)
-m
update 4-21:
exile has the registration page proto running (although not public yet, it is working.) We are awaiting some specially requested artwork, as well as ironing out the needed functions of the ladder before they are implemented into code. -m
[This message has been edited by mason22 (edited 04-21-2000).]
-
Oh, man, you guys have to check this out!
-
Very nice work there -Thx in advance for a job well done.Looking forward to trying the finished product!Ive been coming across some very good sticks in h2h practice and Im sure this ladder will be very hotly contested.
Has 'Hunter' from Defts WB ladder been seen in the skies if AH yet?
I came across 'Spitfire' the other night in H2H and fell repeatedly to his finely tuned techniques. Hope to see 'Konrad' soon too,and 'Eadg' has been retuning his WB skills in AH H2H(mostly at my expense!)
Keep up the great work guys -ladders looking great!
Btw-any plans for an after-action report by both parties ala Wallys WB ladder?Those always made for entertaining reading!
-
Originally posted by By-Tor:
Btw-any plans for an after-action report by both parties ala Wallys WB ladder?Those always made for entertaining reading!
By-Tor, thx!! i will pass the suggestion on to Kieren and Exile, sounds like something we definately should have, almost like a log book or pilot records of the duel.
if anyone else has suggestions, please let us know!!
thx, -mas
-
update 4-21:
exile has the registration page proto running (although not public yet, it is working.) We are awaiting some specially requested artwork, as well as ironing out the needed functions of the ladder before they are implemented into code. -m
[This message has been edited by mason22 (edited 04-21-2000).]just a bumper.
-
The only suggestion I have is to measure two pilots correctly against one another, both should be in the same type A/C during the duel. Each pilot allowed to pick the A/C type between each set. Otherwise, you may as well fly in main arena. I'd rather be dueling to exploit a pilots weakness, rather than his A/C weakness.
Here's on a duel should work:
Best of 3 or 5, the last flight being BOTH pilots choice of A/C, however, all other flights being the SAME A/C, and alternating turns on choice.
Co-Altitude
Same Plane (except on last set)
No-guns merge
Last plane airborn wins
------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Too often, we lose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when
someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it
only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm, grasp the joystick button,
and shoot the sucker down!
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-21-2000).]
-
thank you Rip!!
Exile has noted and recorded this. It makes much sense to do same AC for 1 on 1 HTH. However, i think in the squad 4HTH4 (4on4), we are going to allow choice of AC. This will let squads fly "historical" type scenarios against each other. Or show strength as a team, using strengths and weeknesses of AC + ACM (or lack there of (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
-mas
[This message has been edited by mason22 (edited 04-21-2000).]
-
More to consider... the venue should be as neutral as possible.
With CM capabilities it is plausible that one side can "adjust" the arena into a pitched situation. This needs to be avoided, so I suggest H2H duels be hosted (when possible) by a 3rd, neutral, party.
-
WE could possibly work something out with HTC about a "reserved squad duel" arena. This would provide the "neutral" airspace and we won't have to worry about connection problems as much. Possibly password protected or open to spectators? Squads would agree on a set time and that time could be reserved.
Just an idea.
-
i'm curious....
is the HTH ladder important to you guys?
what would ya like on it?
not many repsonses so far....remember, its the communities ladder, make it what you want!
let us know! (http://www.mikeangel.com/ah/)
4-21
btw, Exile has got the registration and the login process constructed and working. (but not released yet).
-
I think, that if it will be 5 fights in a set in each one of the pilots shall chose the plane of a duel. If it will be 2:2 game is draw, and is not reported.
Fariz
-
so lets vote:
to choose AC or not to choose AC?
remember, we are looking at the strength of skills as a pilot not the AC's strengths or weeknesses. or maybe its a combination of the two. what do you think is more important in HTH?
-mas
-
I'm for same planes. Best out of 5, not stopping at 3 if you're sweeping. In the WB's ladder I flew in you were rewarded big time in points for sweeping the other guy in all 5 rounds.
I respectively disagree about "choosing whatever plane" for the final round, in my opinion this unevens the pure ACM skills of a same planes duel.
As for the arena being rigged by the host, can't you 'unlock' the settings in H2H where the other guy can check them?
I'm all for the after action reports too, preferably by email.
-
I think there needs to be a way to accomodate people wanting to fly different aircraft.
I know that many people will fly Spitfires. That's ok with me, but maybe I would like to duel in other craft. I wouldn't want to be forced into 5 Spitfire duels because that is what the guy picked first. Of course, I really don't care if the other guys wants to fly nothing but Spits, but for me that would be dull.
Those that have dueled me know that I let you select whatever you like, and ask you what you want me in. If you say you don't care, I pick something that should make the fight interesting for both of us. I would hate for the rules to prohibit this, as I'm interested in 1 vs 1 fights, not necessarily endless Spitfire fights.
I guess what I'm saying is if both sides agree it should be possible to fly whatever they want. If even one side says they want same planes, then it's same planes.
-
One point I really liked about the WB Ladder was that they flew "historical match ups". So you'd never see same plane vs same plane. Right now, with AH somewhat limited plane set, this might not be the best way to go, but later on I think it would be.
If we do go same plane, the choice of plane should alternate with the first choice going to the Challenger, giving the Challenger a slight edge in some cases.
-
I would like to see huge grandstand seating, so we can watch the fights! With hotdogs and popcorn.
Okay, Im new to the ladders, but I'd like to keep it same planes per round. I also like the 3rd party hosting idea.
-
Its obvious that flying a different plane from your adversary will require different skills than if you fly the same plane. If I'm in a 51 going against a spit V, I am going to fly completely differently than I would if I was flying against another 51. I'd hate to see either of these left out, so why not go with something along the lines of...
Duel 1: Adversary's choose whatever plane they want.
Duel 2: Challenger (or higher ranked pilot?) chooses the plane that both duelists will fly.
Duel 3: Duelists choose whatever plane they want.
Duel 4: Challengee (or lower ranked pilot?) chooses the plane that both duelists will fly.
Duel 5: Duelists choose whatever plane they want.
Duels 2 and 4 would be mostly a test of ACM skills as the planes are dead evenly matched. Duels 1, 3 and 5 would be test your skill with your favorite ride. Or, conversely, you could make 1, 3 and 5 be the same plane duels if you wanted to make ACM's the more dominant test in ladder duels.
Gordo
Fat Drunk Bastards! (http://fdb.50megs.com/)
[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 04-23-2000).]
-
Do you have to have a paid account to participate or are all duels done through H2H?
-
A paid account will give you access to the Special Events Arena (perfect for dueling). With or Without a paid account you could still use a H2H arena.
-
Guys i gotta disagree about the same plane thing. It should be the competitors choice. If they agree to same planes thats great! Me--Im for "fly what you bring". only stipulation is they must agree prior to taking off. (BTW even if same planes were the rule--all would still not be equal. The gear that one uses has a BIG affect too.--I use a full CH setup--pedals, stick, and throttle and it has helped me immensely!!)
another thing would be the moment all are commited. IE... after D 7.0 someones the loser, no excuses!
If H2H--a 3rd party will need to host because of the configurable setting of H2H--ie gun lethality.
If SEA--we must decide whether fuel will be a deciding issue (ask Ghosth if it ever happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cold merge should be standerdized! As to Altitude--it should be up the parties. Really undecided on this one. If it was standerdized then there would be no arguments when the 2 AC merged. But if the pilots decided then there is the chance it was not dicussed prior to merge and "no fair" is screamed. I however like the idea of merging at any alt we wish. 10K on up to 25k for that matter.
there are other things to consider as well--I will think on it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) there are some folks here that are practiced duelers and they need to speak up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ammo---<looking forward to this>
one more thing---I dont think the TA is suitable for the ladder due to the ammo loadout and fuel modifier.
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cammo.jpg)
[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 04-23-2000).]
[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 04-23-2000).]
-
The only problem I have with different plane duels is that some guys will take a plane that allows them to control the fight from the outset.Consider a 109 pilot that climbs to the perch and does the standard BnZ thing until he gets the kill or the other guy runs out of gas.
My reason for flying a duel is to pit pilot skills-not to pit plane attributes.I know that that fighting style is viable and fair,but If I enjoyed that kind of fight,I'd fly in the Main arena.
To my taste,the very nature of a duel is pitting pilot skill vs pilot skill.I vote to fly same plane rounds and let the combatants
agree beforehand what the plane types involved will be.
My other point of contention is the idea of awarding a victory to the last plane to run out of fuel.Personally,I dont want the victory if thats how it came about.It seems to me that 25 % fuel is PLENTY to see a same plane fight to its conclusion.And if not -I'd suggest a refly.
Or-perhaps separate categories on the ladder itself.
1. sameplane duels
2. historical match-ups
That should keep just about everyone content I'd think.
Looking forward to this very much ; )
-
*And you didn't think anyone was interested, eh Mason? <wink>*
I think the main thing, in all categories, is that there is agreement before the wheels leave the runway.
I think two people can decide if they want different or same planes. Again, the fallback here is if even one side wants same planes, you make it same planes.
Alt should be another area of agreement. Fights are much different at 25K than they are at 10K. Again, both sides can decide for themselves where this happens.
I don't know enough about the H2H component yet to comment on whether arena settings are visible; still, it seems a good idea to find a neutral host when possible, if for no other reason than to have a witness. I have seen some very good fights during the tournament, and am glad I was there to see them.
What I would suggest is that everyone think of five rules that are most important to them. We can then collectively decide what are good and bad ideas, and modify as necessary. No one's ideas are bad, but there will be some that won't get used (so no hurt feelings). We should be able to devise a list of 20 or so rules off of that list, wouldn't you say?
-
The only problem I have with different plane duels is that some guys will take a plane that allows them to control the fight from the outset.Consider a 109 pilot that climbs to the perch and does the standard BnZ thing until he gets the kill or the other guy runs out of gas.
My reason for flying a duel is to pit pilot skills-not to pit plane attributes.I know that that fighting style is viable and fair,but If I enjoyed that kind of fight,I'd fly in the Main arena.
To my taste,the very nature of a duel is pitting pilot skill vs pilot skill.I vote to fly same plane rounds and let the combatants
agree beforehand what the plane types involved will be.
Preach on brother. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Bytorr is also a veteran of the WB's ladder that I flew in. It used Historical matchups in planes. While good in some ways, it is bad in others. There are some matchups that just aint fair. If you fight a 109 flying energy genius like a 'konrad', you are beaten my friend, from the outset of the merge.
He will smartly do a super immelman and perch way a*s up there and kick your a*s when the oppurtunity is just right.
This will happen here too, to some degree.
In the end, historical matchups sound wonderful, but aren't all they're cracked up to be.
I respectfully vote same planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Just had a rare moment of clarity (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif),and it occured to me that it would be SOO cool to have the ladder split into overall rankings for EACH plane type.Then the averages for all AC type columns tallied in an OVERALL best column.
What this effectively does is offers, (how many fighters are there currently in AH?)say ,10 top spots to aspire to instead of only 1 #1 spot.
Each plane type will have its own #1 pilot!
And the true MASTER will sit atop the OVERALL
composited main dueling column!This affords someone the possiblity of being 'p-38' master for example even tho he cant save his own butt flying a...109g10!
I feel this would be ALOT more fun if a pilot could aspire to specialize in a specific plane even tho he couldnt hope to beat the OVERALL Champ.
Ys -thats it!!! If I could learn to beat EADG or KONRAD or JASE etc. in even 1 plane of my choice-THAT would be ALOT more fun than sitting at # 25(ex.) overall with little hope of climbing much higher.
This may be the BEST idea ive EVER had so someone please concur! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
You got my vote, By-Tor.
This addresses my only complaint of any ladder, that is, it becomes a contest for the best Spitfire pilot.
Good thinking, I like it.
-
I like it Bytor. I still like the idea of traditional matches too (and not so traditional matches) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
I really like this idea!!!
Excellent idea! This would add some complexity to the back end (thanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)), but it adds a whole new twist to the ladder. You may not be a "38 Master", but you could still be the "Overall Master" if you're competent in a wide range of planes.
This idea should gain alot of support. Implementing this will force "same plane" matches. Challenger having the choice in fights 1,3 and 5.
WTG By-Tor!! This is getting exciting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
"Something wonderful is coming."
Ex ......................
-
Would variants be grouped together or would they need to be seperate? Alot of variants have very little differences, while others such as the 190 seem to change alot.
I'm all for grouping them.
Thoughts?
-
I know its probobly ALOT more work for you to keep them separate .but,the spit 5 and 9 almost demand a different figthing style to get the MOST out of each.Same is true of the 109 series in particular.While the 109f is a capable angle fighter, The 109g10 requires a completely different combat doctrin to be succesfull.
I vote to keep each model seperate,tho if the work involved for you is daunting-id be MORE than happy to just have an all inclusive (ex. Spit) ranking etc.
-
That's kind of what I thought. The extra work won't really be that bad anyways (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
and what's wrong with flying spitfires? LOL
------------------
Jase
"To Everything Turn..Turn..Turn"
-
That's easy; I already know I'm not even in the top 10 of Spit pilots. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
ummm, wow.....guys, these ideas are great!
at first i thought everyone was shrugging thier shoulders at "the ladder". all i can say now is thanks!! much great input that we'll have to consider. i know Ex is loving it as much as he is hating what lies ahead to get this thing operational!!
i'm still awaiting some artwork from the "gods"... will update as soon as i recieve the goods!
mas
-
By-tor,
you are a genius <i bow to your mighty intellect>
The ONLY concern i could see with this set up is this: We need enough players trying out the different planes. I'd hope we would't have 50 people fighting with spits all the time and only two fighting in 190's.
I don't think this will happen in this community but you never know. Especially as more and more planes get added.
other than that, I love the idea and it will give a lot of us a chance to learn different planes and combat styles.
I must warn however, that a lot of us ladder junkies don't pay for full accounts, so we would need a way to play in the H2H arena's only (no special events arena for us (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif))
thanks for the hard work guys, I can't wait!
-cygnus
"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"
-
Cygnus-
Of course free accounts will be able to play! That's one of the beauties of the ladder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
By-Tor has already given us a way to try different aircraft and be competitive in the environment. I'm very excited there is something for everyone here.