Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on April 15, 2002, 10:38:28 AM
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..where a parent does THIS to a child?
(http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/images/powell-palestine.jpg)
:rolleyes:
My stance on this whole situation is this:
I don't like the fact that Israel has conducted offenses in Palestine but I do understand the need to secure ones own future.
I don't understand the logic of blowing up civilians with homocide bombers is going to promote your cause in the eyes of the world.
I wish that other Arab countries would step in and volunteer to mediate peace talks and not leave it up to another country thats half way around the world, but instead they hold "Telethons for the families of suicide bombers" BIG TIME ROLLS EYES HERE!
Speaking as a "God-fearing" individual, I can now fully understand why some atheists and non-believers loathe religion! :(
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
..where a parent does THIS to a child?
(http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/images/powell-palestine.jpg)
:rolleyes:
daddy straps a bomb to his daughter's waist and she sits there holding up the "peace" sign with her fingers. How ironic is that? I have to ask the question, if he's so worried about his countrymen why doesn't he get off his coward hypocrite arse and go over there and fight for them?
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daddy probably has a third grade education at best
his parents brainwashed him to hate so he's just following a "family tradition"
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We live in a world where zealots abound.
We live in a world where actions are deemed acceptable if the cause is justifyable... no matter what they were.
We live in a world where history is doomed to repeat itself.
AKDejaVu <- Not feeling particularly optimistic today.
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"As it was in the days of Noah" come to mind.
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Is it possible that this guy is trying to show how horrible the bombings are by enlisting his daughter as a symbol? The peace sign may be an indication of a different intent than that assumed by you all.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is it possible that this guy is trying to show how horrible the bombings are by enlisting his daughter as a symbol? The peace sign may be an indication of a different intent than that assumed by you all.
No, it wasn't.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is it possible that this guy is trying to show how horrible the bombings are by enlisting his daughter as a symbol? The peace sign may be an indication of a different intent than that assumed by you all.
No,
It was from a pro-palestinian rally in Germany I believe.....
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Maybe it's a victory sign .
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yup samm is correct thats a V for victory.
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My first impression was 'V for Victory'.
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Originally posted by Dowding
My first impression was 'V for Victory'.
Tahgut was a dope smoking hippee in the 60's, they totally abused that sign, so the US automatically thinks today it means peace,...right Tahgut? ;)
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she's getting ready to turn her hand around and flip us off ... GB style :)
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I think the pro-Palestinian is using his child as a prop to demonstrate the point that Palestinians are willing to die- and willing to have their children die- in order to have an independent Palestine. I wouldn't get too ruffled up about it.
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deleted...it just aint worth it... the world is full of lemmings that'll drag thier kids to "hell" w/them.
xBAT
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Yesterdays "Rock throwers" are todays homocide bombers. This little darling looks like she'll take out about 20 or 30 when shes old enough to know how to press the button when told to...:eek:
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wouldn't a parent be arrested in the US if they demonstrated in like fashion with their child? Or at very least have child removed from their custody?
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wouldn't a parent be arrested in the US if they demonstrated in like fashion with their child? Or at very least have child removed from their custody?
I sure hope so.
It`s sick,and I don`t understand how can anyone be sympathetic to these people.
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dildos!
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If they are so eager for their children and themselves to die as martyrs, then no one should have a problem with Israel unleashing its airpower and armor to give the Palestinians what they want. They get to serve Allah and the Israelis get to walk down their streets without a being blown up on a daily basis.
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I'm glad more of this community is starting to empathize with the Isrealis . Try putting yourself in their shoes . Remember the hurt, the insult, the anger you felt in September ? Unfortunately I think many americans have allready forgotten. The Isrealis can't escape it, they are reliving it on an almost daily basis . The Isreali leaders have a duty to their electors who are cyring make it stop . They are very frustrated. The PLO won't negociate, the PLO won't stop sending bombers . Yet Isreal can't move an armored vehicle without the international community breathing down their neck . The palastinians need to let go of the past and old animosities . When they do this then they can begin repairing the present . At the rate they are going with this intifada Isreal will soon be garnering more world sympathy than their stone throwing neighbors .
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Tahgut was a dope smoking hippee in the 60's, they totally abused that sign, so the US automatically thinks today it means peace,...right Tahgut? ;)
LOL...NO!
You forgot the 70's and 80's!:D
And I thought it was a rally in Palestine, so the 'V' would more likely mean peace than victory........different alphabet.
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I see it exactly in the opposite way.
The sympathies for the palestines are rising and those for the israelis falling.
Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo.
None of the TV-stations - even including the private ones - were saying anything against Israel.
But this has changed dramaticly during the last year. Now in the comments the actions of the Israeli army in the palestine territory have been compared with massacres of 2nd World War.
And yesterday a leading polititian of the liberal party of Germany accused in a speach Sharon to be a brutal war-criminal like Milosevic who has to put before an international tribunal.
Also yesterday the german defense minister Scharping ordered a stop of all arms-/arms-spareparts-deliveries from Germany to Israel, because of the possible massacres of palestines by israeli troops.
Not that this would disturb the israeli warmachine anyway but it is an important signal and was commented positivly in all news-reports on TV and the newspapers.
During the last week there has been one pro-israeli demonstration in Germany. Only 2000 people came to this organized thing in Frankfurt and the people who organized this were dissapointed and angry that the normal german people in Frankfurt didnt joined their march or agree with their argumentations.
And in the last weekend ten-thousands of germans joined the numerous protest-marchs of the palestines in Germany who protested against the actions of Sharons policy.
Simple facts - but there you have an impression who is seen as the victim in this conflict and who as the aggressor.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
I think the pro-Palestinian is using his child as a prop to demonstrate the point that Palestinians are willing to die- and willing to have their children die- in order to have an independent Palestine. I wouldn't get too ruffled up about it.
wouldn't this (teaching kids to pretend to be suicide bombers) be considered a child abuse in the US?
They CPS take the kids from their parent for much less drastic offences.
Are other countries (Germany in this case) less intrusive into the family and raising your own kids?
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During the last week there has been one pro-israeli demonstration in Germany.
You guys did a good job ridding germany of people who would have come.And the ones that are still there might be too frightened to go,remembering what germans were capable of doing some 60 years ago.
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Quote:
"Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo. "
And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...
In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??
Cabby
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And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...
In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??
Cabby
Thank You very much Cabby
Just what I meant to say.
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ROFLMAO ! What weed are you guys smoking?
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They must've run out of US and Israeli flags to burn...
When you figure the Mid East out, let me know. Then we'll work on the Black Panthers and KKK once you finish that warm up
:p
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Oh I got it. Gabby is pissed off 'cause Daimler-Benz bought Chrysler right?
btw when are we going to see pics from that march military jews did in Israel and shouted "Death to all arabs"?
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Sorry.. while I'm incensed over arafats idiotic rhetoric and the actions of hammas, hezbollah and al-fatah, I don't think israel is without blame in this situation.
For every freakin idiotic suicide bomber there's 100,000 palestians that don't strap on the gelinite dildo before they go to work. THOSE folks are the ones that are gettin their houses mowed down.
While isreal has been hard pressed to contain terrorism against it's citizens, it's obvious to anyone who cares to look that their nation is not about to be invaded by palestinian tanks, their parliment has not been outlawed and arrested, and their homes are not being systematicly destroyed.
It looks to me like the state of israel is overeacting.
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Originally posted by Staga
btw when are we going to see pics from that march military jews did in Israel and shouted "Death to all arabs"?
Good point Staga.
Saying that one country is causing all this violence is kinda like the old expression. "The pot calling the kettle black". It's plain to see that both countries are comitting acts of violence towards each other. Apparently some people actually believe that Israel has no blame for the situation in the Middle East. That is what makes me mad. Wake UP! They are both at war. Both are killing people.
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Originally posted by Udie
daddy straps a bomb to his daughter's waist and she sits there holding up the "peace" sign with her fingers. How ironic is that? I have to ask the question, if he's so worried about his countrymen why doesn't he get off his coward hypocrite arse and go over there and fight for them?
IMO she is doing the V for victory sign ... nothing related to peace :(
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo. "
And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...
In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??
Cabby
go away idiot
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo. "
And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...
In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??
Cabby
Its absolutely not important what they think about germans.
The important thing for Germany is, that after decades of a blind policy according Israel, the german public point of view about Israel has now changed in an extreme short time.
So Sharon was able to destroy an ivory tower which was built during decades in few months.
And that is - for me as a german - the important thing of the whole developments.
Now - after this dam has broken - there are many open discussions in public but also in private or on the work toward this topic. The people now get the informations they never got before.
Last week one of my patients who is a teacher on high school, told me, that he had brought the israeli suppression policy as topic for his school classes. This also wouldnt have been possible in a german school before.
To make it clear: There is no hate for the israelians as a collective but a clear disdain for Sharons stupid policy.
There is also no blind support for all palestinians - every normal german as every normal human disdains not only the israeli crimes but als the ones done by palestinians.
But now both sides are now seen in a way it hasnt been before. And because of the actual power coinstellation Israel is seen as the aggressor - so the hope of the Central-Council of Jews in Germany that many Germans would join their contructed pro-Israel-demonstration in Frankfurt resulted in a desaster when only 2000 came.
This all have not been possible in this dimension before Sharon.
So - from a special point of view - the war-criminal Sharon had really helped Germany to make some very good changes in its inner structure.
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That`s all nice babek,but tell me what germany has done to save the israely citizens from getting blown up by terrorist palestinians?
Sold some weapons?I`m sure they got paid very well for those weapons.BTW I belive german scientists were building Saddam`s big secret underground guns too.
I don`t dislike german people,I don`t belive they are bad now,based on what germans did a few decades ago.I just think they`re not in the position to judge Israel for whatever they do.Especially not for things that havent even been proven yet (Jenin massacre).
We (jews) just can`t wait for others to come save us.The world just looked away when the holocaust was happening,because nobody tought something such horrible was possible.Than when the camps were found all were shocked,but that did not raise the 6 million from the dead.
Now Israel has to do something that`s not pretty by any means,and the world bashes on Israel.Fine,we don`t need anyone`s approval,we want to live and have our own country,the jewish state where jews can live their ordinary lives.Just like the french in France,the poles in Poland etc.
Palestinians could have lived there on a way higher standard of living,had they accepted the state of Israel.They wouldn`t,and they caused so much death and suffering,they had to be beat down.It`s not a nice setuation and it`s very disappointing,but that was the only way to deal with this problem.
So unless You come up with an idea on how to solve this problem in a peaceful way.....just STFU
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Caligula, don't worry about the Germans. They have a new scape goat for their troubles....Turks! Seems they have an imigrant problem like the USA has with illegal Mexicans.
They still don't trust their own military much either.
As for the God-guns that were being built in Iraq, that was a Canadian engineer named John Bull with a big gun fetish, working with a company in the Netherlands or Belgium.
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
That`s all nice babek,but tell me what germany has done to save the israely citizens from getting blown up by terrorist palestinians?
Sold some weapons?I`m sure they got paid very well for those weapons.BTW
The biggest arms dealer in the middle east is the United States
I belive german scientists were building Saddam`s big secret underground guns too.
In April 1990, Saddam Hussein, then still George Bush's friend and ally, offered to destroy his chemical and biological weapons if Israel agreed to destroy its non-conventional weapons -- including its nuclear weapons. Noam Chomsky
- The Gulf War Crisis, Z Magazine 1991
I don`t dislike german people,I don`t belive they are bad now,based on what germans did a few decades ago.I just think they`re not in the position to judge Israel for whatever they do.Especially not for things that havent even been pr oven yet (Jenin massacre).
Like they couldn't originally prove the massacres in the Balkans, or the camps in Germany?
We (jews) just can`t wait for others to come save us.The world just looked away when the holocaust was happening,because nobody tought something such horrible was possible.Than when the camps were found all were shocked,but that did not raise the 6 million from the dead.
Now Israel has to do something that`s not pretty by any means,and the world bashes on Israel.Fine,we don`t need anyone`s approval,we want to live and have our own country,the jewish state where jews can live their ordinary lives.Just like the french in France,the poles in Poland etc.
Just a wee bit of living room, space to breed...lebensraum I think it was once called?
Or even better where palenstinians can not live in a place (pre '47) called Palestine
Palestinians could have lived there on a way higher standard of living,had they accepted the state of Israel.They wouldn`t,and they caused so much death and suffering,they had to be beat down.It`s not a nice setuation and it`s very disappointing,but that was the only way to deal with this problem.
Just like how that terrorist Nelson Mandela just wouldn't accept South African hospitality...just before they put him in jail for 30yrs
So unless You come up with an idea on how to solve this problem in a peaceful way.....just STFU
The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan; divide East Jerusalem into Jewish, Muslim, and Christian sectors, have NATO troops police peace accords and either normalize relations with the Arabs, as the Saudis propose, or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours. This cannot be done so long as settlements remain.
Eric Margolis - The Toronto Sun http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/margolis_apr14.html
Tronsky
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Hi Tronsky.
100%agree
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yep
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Originally posted by -tronski-
The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan; divide East Jerusalem into Jewish, Muslim, and Christian sectors, have NATO troops police peace accords and either normalize relations with the Arabs, as the Saudis propose, or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours. This cannot be done so long as settlements remain.
Tronsky
Hehehehe
Great ideas pal. I'm sure the Israelis wont have any problems at all with those LOL.
A couple of observations:
1. You really shouldnt quote Noam Chomsky and be expect to be taken serious after that.
2. A Christian sector of Jerusalem? Why? Seriously, last time I checked, the Christians were content with having a Jerusalem under jewish control.
3. Trust me, it is quite possible to build walls to protect Israel from the terrorists. You are just imagining it the wrong way. Instead of building walls around Israel proper and the Israeli settlements (something that cannot really be done, considering how many settlements there are), you simply build the walls around all the various Palestinian towns and cities.
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In April 1990, Saddam Hussein, then still George Bush's friend and ally, offered to destroy his chemical and biological weapons if Israel agreed to destroy its non-conventional weapons -- including its nuclear weapons.
Have You seen Israel using those weapons?
Do You think Saddam would use them right after he got he`s dirty hands on `em?
If it wasn`t for those nukes,Israel would have been wiped out long time ago.It makes the arabs think twice,before they do something really dumb.
The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan.
Remember 1948 and 1967?
There were no settlers,Israel still was attacked by virtually all the arab countries.What makes You so sure they won`t start a war after all these land is given back?
; normalize relations with the Arabs
It`s the arabs who refuse to accept right for Israel to exist.
What is the guarantee they won`t turn right around and attack again,as new Israeli borders are lot harder to defend.
Saudis right now are collecting money for the families of scuicide bombers,and write in their newspapers about the muslim blood,jews need for passover.
I`m sorry,I have a hard time trusting these people.
or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours
I tought we lived in the 21st century,when walls are rather easy to destroy and cross.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Hehehehe
Great ideas pal. I'm sure the Israelis wont have any problems at all with those LOL.
A couple of observations:
1. You really shouldnt quote Noam Chomsky and be expect to be taken serious after that.
2. A Christian sector of Jerusalem? Why? Seriously, last time I checked, the Christians were content with having a Jerusalem under jewish control.
3. Trust me, it is quite possible to build walls to protect Israel from the terrorists. You are just imagining it the wrong way. Instead of building walls around Israel proper and the Israeli settlements (something that cannot really be done, considering how many settlements there are), you simply build the walls around all the various Palestinian towns and cities.
Actually they werent my ideas, hence the direct quote, But quite frankly your right I'm dreaming. No one has an interest in peace, they all want victory.
As for the christian sector of Jeusalem, I don' think thats such a bad idea..at the very least it gives an alternative to the Jewish, and Arabic sectors. Plus it allows Jerusalem to be an international city and possibly free of dispute.
As for the walls, the suggestion included removing whole the settlements, but the suggestion was 2 fold. That the UN have a buffer between Isreal and Palestine + normalising relations with the Arabs, and walls the alternative. Again all based on the removal of the settlements.
As for Naom Chomsky, yes it can be a little dubious at times, but the alternative to note that the post Iran-Iraq war investment of Iraq was with American and western European money, and arms. Just an exscuse for Caligua to claim anti-semite/ anti-american bashing...a good side step in anycase
Tronsky
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Have You seen Israel using those weapons?
Do You think Saddam would use them right after he got he`s dirty hands on `em?
If it wasn`t for those nukes,Israel would have been wiped out long time ago.It makes the arabs think twice,before they do something really dumb.
No thankfully, but they manage to use their conventional weapons quite often enough.
Having a nuclear bomb doesn't make you naturally responsible to have it. Pakistan and India make that obvious.
Remember 1948 and 1967?
There were no settlers,Israel still was attacked by virtually all the arab countries.What makes You so sure they won`t start a war after all these land is given back?
I rememeber 1978 and 1982 when Isreal had control of the occupied territories, and still mananged to find time to invade Lebanon.
It`s the arabs who refuse to accept right for Israel to exist.
What is the guarantee they won`t turn right around and attack again,as new Israeli borders are lot harder to defend.
Saudis right now are collecting money for the families of scuicide bombers,and write in their newspapers about the muslim blood,jews need for passover.
I`m sorry,I have a hard time trusting these people.
Egypt was part of the Arab colalition that was involved in '67/'73 yet still managed to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in 1980.
As for Saudi money, Isreal recieves 10% of her budget from the US, but the Palestinians are automatically supposed to trust either?
I tought we lived in the 21st century,when walls are rather easy to destroy and cross.
I thought we lived in the 21st century too, but Isreal and Palestine continually prove me wrong.
I think you'll find that's sarcasm. Isreal has to normalise realtions with it's Arab neighbours or it may as well lock it's self away.
you asked for a peaceful solution, I posted one. But as Hortlund posted, thats a dream, and I tend to agree with him.
Tronsky
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As for Naom Chomsky, yes it can be a little dubious at times, but the alternative to note that the post Iran-Iraq war investment of Iraq was with American and western European money, and arms. Just an exscuse for Caligua to claim anti-semite/ anti-american bashing...a good side step in anycase
No thankfully, but they manage to use their conventional weapons quite often enough.
Having a nuclear bomb doesn't make you naturally responsible to have it. Pakistan and India make that obvious.
Egypt was part of the Arab colalition that was involved in '67/'73 yet still managed to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in 1980.
As for Saudi money, Isreal recieves 10% of her budget from the US, but the Palestinians are automatically supposed to trust either?
What the F are you talking about?
Israel not responsible?No nukes ever used by Israel,and non of the NATO or the former Warsaw pact countries ever made a big deal out of it.So I guess all understood what Israel needs those nukes for,and didn`t worry about Israel being irresponsible with them.
Now if You think You`re smarter than all those leaders and governments of those countries,You might need some medication.
Actually the 1st and 3rd quotes I posted because I have absolutelly no idea what You`re trying to say.
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Originally posted by mietla
wouldn't this (teaching kids to pretend to be suicide bombers) be considered a child abuse in the US?
They CPS take the kids from their parent for much less drastic offences.
Are other countries (Germany in this case) less intrusive into the family and raising your own kids?
Nah, Mielta, because if you make the case for child abuse because he's using his daughter as a symbol then it opens the door to claims of child abuse by every parent who buys a little flag and has their kid wave it at the 4th of July parade.
Calls for the ban on demonstrations are laughable also. Is it a demonstration to fly an American flag from your car antenna?
What's amazing is the "righteous indignation" shown by the author of this thread and several of the respondant posts. What do you expect the Palestinians to do? They are in a war, they will demonstrate nationalist sentiment and they will protest to draw attention to their cause. As far as using babies as hand grenades, as some posters claim to be occuring, I haven't read any proof of children being suicide bombers, so please post a link.
Oh, forgot bout the CPS part- You have to be extremely abusive to a child, to the point of being a threat to the life of the child, before CPS can intervine and take away a child. The Social Services budget for CPS and most other similar programs isn't nearly enough to allow CPS to effectively do their jobs. We have no end of unfit parents who are on drugs, alcohol or whatever who shouldn't even be on the streets, let alone being parents. Now how many of you staunch Conservatives are in favor of an increase in Social Services spending?
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Elf, don't pay much attention to the news I see...just two weeks ago, a young boy lured 9 Israeli soldiers into an ally (they chased him) and then detonated an explosive that killed 6 outright, while the remaining were ambushed from rooftops. Anyway, since you're so uninformed and probably get your main source of news from CNN for 20 min. a day, here you go:
"The Martyr Wajdi Al-Hattab (9th grade) responded to the call of Allah and
achieved the Martyrdom that he yearned for, so that it would clear the way for
the liberation of Al Aksa and Palestine from the defilement of the occupation.
He would always say to his friends: 'When I become a Martyr, give out
Kannafa [sweet cake]. He always spoke about his uncle who became a
Martyr in southern Lebanon, and yearned to become a Martyr like him - and
[now] he attained what he yearned for. He reached the highest levels with
Allah... [Wajdi's gym teacher relates:] Wajdi asked me to give out Kannafa if
he becomes a Martyr... His classmates swore that they would continue in the
path of Martyrdom until the liberation of Jerusalem..."
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 November 2000]
"The danger of injury of the boy Saber Al-Ashkar (aged 18), paralysis and
permanent disability, just added to his mother's determination to encourage
her sons to participate in the Intifada riots.... and the fact of his injury by a live
bullet did not cause her to mourn... She said that she had [previously] lost her
older son Iyad, and described him as the first flower that appeared in her life.
She is not interested in anything but encouraging her sons to self-sacrifice
and Martyrdom for the land of Palestine..."
[Al Ayyam 1 November 2000]
"A PATV broadcast conducted conversations with 2nd grade school children.
An interviewer spoke with a child who had thrown stones [in the riots]:
Interviewer: "You threw stones at the army and injured your leg. Will you
throw again?"
Child: "Yes".
Interviewer: "You aren't afraid to die?"
Child: [embarrassed, hesitant]
Interviewer: [indicates "No" to the child by shaking her head in the negative]
Child: "No."
[PATV 19/10/00]
[Headline]: "The Boy Martyr Karam Al-Kard [age 12] announced of his own
death on the walls of his home" [article text] "Prior to his being injured...
Karam announced his own death on the walls of his home and attributed to
himself Martyrdom and its honor, in his handwriting on the walls. The notice
read: 'The Al-Kard family announces the death of its courageous Martyr
Karam Fat'he Al-Kard..."
[Al Hayat Al Jadida, 30 November 2000]
"The Martyr Wajdi [aged 14, said] to his father: 'I will bring you a Shahada
(Martyrdom) that you will be proud of for the rest of your life'. His mother says:
'My son is not my son only, he belongs to his noble Palestinian people... One
of his friends said that the last words of the Martyr, that he repeated over and
over, spoke of the significance of Martyrdom and on becoming a Martyr."
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 8 November 2000]
"[He] sacrificed his son (aged 18) in order to redeem the homeland and
Jerusalem. He stated that becoming a Martyr is a tremendous source of pride
and a medal on his chest... he added that his son always spoke about
martyrdom and his desire to become a Martyr."
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 Nov. 2000]
The Martyr Muhammad Abu Tahoun wrote down his final words on his
notebook: 'The Martyrs will attain Paradise, and I will be with them, Allah
willing...'".
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 November 2000]
"The father [of Mohammed Hiza' Halas, 23]: ... [He has] great pride that his
progeny has become a Martyr .... With regard to his mother, she says that
her offspring wished to become a Martyr and she anticipated it."
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 2 November 2000]
"Our blood is a sign of our fighting for our precious Palestine"
[A teacher, next to pupils on Palestinian Television, 2 November 2000]
"What pushes our children and youth to the arenas of death?... [Ramadan
Saadi Abd Rabbo, an injured 13-year-old, said:] 'my goal is not to be injured,
but rather something higher: Martyrdom.'"
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 8 November 2000]
"The wounded 11-year-old, Amr Qarut, wants to win the honor of a Martyr's
death... and he insists on continuing the [violent] struggle."
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 6 November 2000]
"The wounded Sa'ed Awad Allah [aged 11], from the Jaballiya [refugee] camp
said: We are all potential Martyrs for Jerusalem and the Homeland"
[Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 6 November 2000]
"We must battle until we achieve peace on our own and until our blood will
not be spilled for naught, we must battle and die in order to attain all that we
want." [8-year-old girl Halah Badir]
[Al Ayyam, 2 November 2000]
"[22-year-old Tauzem Musa Abu Def's] brother... feels honor and pride from
his brother's becoming a Martyr, ...and added that he intends to continue on
the path started by his brother."
[Al Ayyam, 2 November 2000]
" I will take my soul in my hand and toss it into the abyss of death. And then
either life that will gladden friends or death that will anger the enemy. The
honorable soul has two objectives: Achieving death and honor." 'Song of the
Martyr' recited by schoolgirls. (the poem appears in 5th, 6th and 12th grade
PA school books)
[PATV, 27 October 2000]
This current promotion of Martyrdom is part of a long-term phenomenon in
the Palestinian society. PA television in 1998 described two mothers' joy at
their children's "Martyrdom" in the Intifada, as follows:
Narrator: "... the heroine was shot ...and her pure blood flowing and her pure
spirit joyously going to her creator...." Girl's Mother: "I asked: who is she that
died? She told me - 'it's your daughter.' I said: 'Thank Allah, thank Allah. We
have a right to liberate our homeland and we will liberate it. It is our honor to
fall ... She would say "it doesn't matter, I will die for the redemption of the
homeland", meaning - I want to die for the redemption of the homeland...
Intisar fell and it is an honor for us and an honor for our children..." Relative of
the family:..."Every time she heard a bang [she said] 'someone was shot, I
hope that next time it will be me, I want to die as a martyr'.
[PA TV - Oct. 7, 1998]
Mother of Muhammad ["martyred" in the riots]: "...I hope that all my children
will be martyrs..."
http://www.pmw.org.il/report-32.html
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No doubt, suicide bombing is a terrible thing, thanks for the post as it describes just how sad it is more than any of us ever could. We could never imagine making those choices, and thank God we don't have to.
As one who believes world peace will soon be our only viable option due to the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction I find fault with Sharon as equally as I do with Arafat. Neither one of them seems to be flexible or realistic to the interests of the other, and both seem too comfortable with the death and destruction around them to negotiate in good faith for an end to the crisis.
What concerns me most is the potential for escalation into a much bigger war, and I hope the entire global community will start exerting pressure on BOTH sides to stop all acts of aggression. God knows Arafat and Sharon won't stop the violence on their own.
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I am encouraged by the martyr thing, as it applies to our own war on terror. The immediate danger is obvious, but in the long run, the cultural physicology behind the suicied attacks is doomed to failure. is the ultimate in negative thinking. It is totally alien to us. Our training can be summed up by that famous quote attributed to Gen. Patton. "---make the other dumb bastard die for his country.
Now, for example, if we had a set to with the British. I would be far more concerned. If those silly bastards were down to their last two men. Those guys would be planning how they were going to win.
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Didn't arafat's better half just state that she wished they had a son as she could not think of a better future than he die a martyr
what a bunch of kooks
they are so dam dumb, they don't realize they have the world's attention and can work the best deal ever if they just control the nutbags or at least condemn them and give peace a chance
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If you push people too long there will be a point where rational way of thinking will be forgotten.
Then all you have is rage and vengeance.
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I`m sorry Staga but I have to disaggree.
I was born and raised in Hungary.If You wanna find a country that was suppressed,used,devestated,occupied,liberated(by the russians:rolleyes: ..or whatever else You can think of.....well there you go.
But I`ve never heard of Hungarian scuicide squads,and for sure no childeren strapped with explosives.No matter how bad things were going.