Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Animal on April 15, 2002, 03:32:09 PM
-
(http://www.endi.com/_fotos/el_pais/020415misil_lp.jpg)
A damned cruise missile. Its unkown if the missile is armed, if it is, it was just waiting there to explode in a tourist beach. Would you imagine the outrage if this thing had killed a few people?
Let me rephrase that. Would you imagine the outrage if it had killed a few north american tourists?
Arecibo, the town where the missile was found (where that radiotelescope is) is MILES off Vieques. I mean, WAY off target.
Here is a map (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/puertorico.jpg). Check the distance between Vieques and Arecibo. Its almost 80 miles of target. Almost on the other side of the country. WTF!?
Are you people aware now of what we have to deal with here?
-
Sure looks like a target drone.
AKDejaVu
-
Orange painted things are drones.
-
Maybe so but it sure looks like an AGM-86 air-launched cruise missile.
Are unarmed versions used as drones?
Still, arecibo is way off base, it shouldnt be there.
This beach is PACKED with people daily.
-
Too small for a cruise missile, I think Deja has it right...besides, its not like a drone is out of place down there....:D
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Too small for a cruise missile, I think Deja has it right...besides, its not like a drone is out of place down there....:D
Vieques is the only authorized practice area here in PR.
Anything, even a harmless flying ball of nerf, is out of place anywhere else. Specially heavy, fast moving projectiles crashing in urban areas.
-
You guys need to become a state so you don't have to endure being treated like an American territory .
-
Im sure Puerto Rico's best new buddy Al Sharpton will take care of it.........
-
Found on the shoreline Animal... sure looks like it washed up.
The things are supposed to be destroyed or retrieved... looks like that got lost. Most things that are retrievable are also boyant. That means that the possibility of them being washed ashore somewhere is not too outlandish.
Of course, if it were a bomb... and it did explode... killing say the two handsomehunkes that took the opportunity to pose atop a bomb... I can't say I'd get too upset. Natural selection at work.
AKDejaVu
-
Animal my youngest son... thats a target drone. Check the color. It's ORANGE. No warhead, never had one. Check the duct-tape on the nosecone. :) Won't fly the weight... it's just a big funky/fast target for things like the navy's 'standard' class ship to air defensive missiles, these things are also used to duplicate exocet or harppon attack profiles to test radars, CIWIS and such.
They sometimes FLOAT when they splash down after the motor burns out, some have 'come get me' telemetry, others don't.
Think of it as somebodysbig R/C plane that got lost. It's no more dangerous than a giant scale R/C plane that lost it's signal... less so, because these things are used over water or on ranges that insure they will splash down or crash out of fuel long before they can overfly populated areas.
As far as the Navy Test range off your coast... who owns the land? Who defends your Island Nation? Who gives you citizenship rights without pesky things like taxation?
Leave the Navy alone. They got a job to do, and thats their Test Range for the Atalntic Area... I lived 20 miles from the Pacific Test Range.. San Clemente Island. Yah; it's a nuisance sometimes, but thats their job. I'd hate to think our boys are denied training programs in weapons and gunnery... "Put that sword down fellas, you might get hurt learning how to use it". Be a heluva thing to put on the tombstones of 200 sailors "Died in inaction... were unable to release weapons because we wern't allowed to teach 'em how to use 'em right".
-
OMG That's a HUGE MOUNTAIN!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:
Oh, wait. It's a molehill. Nevermind
-Sikboy
-
Animal, I acknowledge your frustrations with the military bases on your beautiful island (yes, I've been there... Arecibo too)
However...
That is a BQM-74 Navy target drone. Since they were first built in 1968 (waaay longer than you've been alive... almost as long as I have) there have been tens of thousands of them used all over the world. It's likely this thing has been wallowing for a long time, and probably not from Vieques. I believe the currents go the other direction too.
My 2 cents.
ps. I'm curious, though... is the local media painting this as a "heavy, fast moving projectile crashing in urban areas"?
-
Animal get a grip
1. It's inert. No danger to anyone.
2. It sure looks so me like something that crashed into the sea and washed up. No evidence that it was off course.
3. Come to my state sometime. We have had much larger missiles blowing up near populated areas, but we don't squeak about it or call in Al Sharpton.
-
This is the funniest crap I've read on here in a while. Look at animals first post. He geniunely thought the island was fixin' to 'splode in a ball of apocalyptic armageddon.
Come to find out it's just a harmless old target drone.
Funny reply sikboy. :D :p :D
-
Gee, the big trench/crater this thing MUST have dug into the sand when it screamed in at Mach 16 doesn't seem to be in the picture.
... and not a dent showing on it. Man, they must build them TOUGH to stand up to hitting sand at light speed.
;)
-
I wish I had found it. I damn sure wouldn't be calling the navy to pick it up, I would have it in the back yard.
-
Toad it hit so fast that the sand particles didn't have time to react due to the hypersonic shock wave!
-
LOL, anyone remember that Young Ones episode with the unexploded bomb in the kitchen?
-
Animals anxiety about Vieques is warrented .
-
Anyone seen my model rocket? I fired it off at Animal some time ago and I musta missed, he's still whining :D:p :)
-
Originally posted by Samm
Animals anxiety about Vieques is warrented .
Why?
-
I agree, drone or not, its still a high speed rocket powered lunk of metal that landed on a usually crowded beach.
If I was the person that found it, i'd KEEP IT and sell it back to the US. Mwahaha.
-
Any "eyewitnesses" to this "landing"?
-
That thing has obviously been in the sea for a long time, look how weathered and worn the finish looks.
-
It didn't land on the beach, it landed in the drink and washed up .
Vieques is part of PR that is an impact area for missles, artillery, bombs etc . PR is practically unanimously against part of their Island being a target for bombs, shells and missles . Like most american territories, the american military utilizes part of it as a range . Read up on it, it's big news .
Like I said up thread, PR should've voted to become a state so they wouldn't have to endure the indignities of being treated like a territory .
-
Originally posted by Samm
It didn't land on the beach, it landed in the drink and washed up .
Vieques is part of PR that is an impact area for missles, artillery, bombs etc . PR is practically unanimously against part of their Island being a target for bombs, shells and missles . Like most american territories, the american military utilizes part of it as a range . Read up on it, it's big news .
Like I said up thread, PR should've voted to become a state so they wouldn't have to endure the indignities of being treated like a territory .
I am familiar with the issue, just don't understand why it is such a hot button for the Puerto Ricans. Not trying to pick a fight, just doesn't make sense to me.
-
Yes, I guess I was worked up.
I confused it with this
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/images/us_agm86b_03_s.jpg)
Its funny because it wasnt! haha, it is a drone!!!!
wow, that animal. what a funny, gilligans island style hilarity. you are young and that missile was made many years ago its normal for them to swim up beaches and natural reserves!
its almost as funny as that time three months ago i was helping my ex do some research on the Vieques wildlife census (read: totally unrelated to the vieques "conflict") and just plain having fun and party with these group of people from the University of PR just taking pictures around the beach.(http://www.vagabundopr.com/culebra/fotos_70.gif)
next early morning as i was still waking up i hear a bunch of noise, come out of the tent to see half the group getting their tulips kicked randomly by a group of privates. apparently, we were interrupting their training (in a beach a few miles off the base) and being a nuisance. luckily i didnt get my bellybutton kicked as i just sat there cowardly in my hangover watching. the girl between the two guys with yellow trunks and an exchange student from Scandinavia werent so lucky, they had some wacky looking broken noses! she was squeakslapped because she raised her voice to one of them.
:rolleyes:
listen, I'm not some anti-navy, zealot puerto rican usa hater. ive been pretty neutral on the whole thing since years ago.
but as a few above have noted, you lose your temper at one point, specially after a few incidents.
Hang,
I have nothing against the navy doing their training, and if they want to do it here, FINE like they were doing it since 60 years before. No one complained 10 years ago. Everyone was actually pretty happy. Its when the guys trying to learn how to use a sword start trying to do some crazy tricks, and the sword comes flying outta their hands in the direction of the bystanders that you must do something about it.
as far as i care, the navy can and SHOULD stay.
but they should be careful and clean up their act, since the last five years the way they have been doing their training have changed drastically, from responsable training in their designated area, to wild Top-Gun style wrecklesness.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
I am familiar with the issue, just don't understand why it is such a hot button for the Puerto Ricans. Not trying to pick a fight, just doesn't make sense to me.
midnight,
its a hot button because people have died, beaches have been reduced to wastelands, strange artifacts washing up on shores (this drone may be harmless, but many bombs and other types of amunition arent), people getting their tulips kicked (by laughing groups of privates probably around my age in the incident i witnessed), etc, etc.
it may seem like a stupid drama to many, until they come here, when their general opinion on the issue usually does a one-eighty after they see with their own eyes what is not in the the teevee.
-
LOL ANIMAL!
Is that a tank you guys were posing on? What kind of beach was that you were partying on?
If I've ever gotten the feeling there was more to a story... it would compare to the one I have right now.
AKDejaVu
-
Yes that is a Sherman. They are scattered all over the beaches in Vieques and Culebra, and in Fajardo (east of the main island)
There is nothing more interesting to the story.
Biology class getting together for a project as an excuse to party on the beach. We were studying a reserve to check the decline of the fish population by fishing and other activities. This is miles off the base, and miles off the area where the main conflics usually occur.
The last day, a group of patrolling soldiers pass by, park next to the group, and just sit there staring and walking around the group. Apparently, some USA hating brainiac from our group decides to open his mouth and jeer or insult one of the soldiers, to wich promtply he gets squeakslapped. Girlfriend rushes to help, to wish she also gets squeakslapped.
You know what happen when a group of drinking, young people get squeakslapped by another group of young people.
-
Sounds pretty much like what would happen in the states Animal;)
AKDejaVu
-
Statehood.
-
Well, for some reason it doesnt feel the same when it happens outside the state. Specially in Vieques, where bozos with uniforms can go around picking fights for leisure and blame it on aggressive protestors.
Hehehe, even tourists get their beating from time to time.
I'm not going back to Vieques. I dont enjoy getting wacked. The 60s were over before I was born and I dont wanna feel like I'm travelling back in time.
Wich is sad, because its got some of the most beautiful beaches and sunsets I have seen, I have to go to Belize or Dominican Republic to get a similar scuba spot.
-
I grew up a few miles from a missle test range. Lots of kids hated the "Navy diddlys" and there were fights between the townies and the military. BFD. Happens all over the place.
-Sikboy
-
Animal.. I'd venture to say the "tourists" have a tendancy to get their tulips beat because where they come from its perfectly acceptable to make fun of soldiers without fear of reprisal.
Typical scenario virtually anywhere I've been:
Soldiers get on the fringe of civilization.
Soldiers stumble across bikini clad women.
Soldiers look, leer and maybe even comment.
Boyfriend doesn't like look, leer or comment.
Boyfriend acts macho and confronts soldiers.
Boyfriend discovers hand to hand combat training effectiveness the hard way.
Sometimes...
Soldiers on the fringe of civilization.
Boyfriend remembers bellybutton beeting by soldier earlier.
Boyfriend brings lots of friends and kicks one soldier's ass.
Its all pretty typical. Its more of a social behavioral issue pertaining to men in a female deficient environment trying to mingle with men who feel they should stay there.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Animal.. I'd venture to say the "tourists" have a tendancy to get their tulips beat because where they come from its perfectly acceptable to make fun of soldiers without fear of reprisal.
Typical scenario virtually anywhere I've been:
Soldiers get on the fringe of civilization.
Soldiers stumble across bikini clad women.
Soldiers look, leer and maybe even comment.
Boyfriend doesn't like look, leer or comment.
Boyfriend acts macho and confronts soldiers.
Boyfriend discovers hand to hand combat training effectiveness the hard way.
Sometimes...
Soldiers on the fringe of civilization.
Boyfriend remembers bellybutton beeting by soldier earlier.
Boyfriend brings lots of friends and kicks one soldier's ass.
Its all pretty typical. Its more of a social behavioral issue pertaining to men in a female deficient environment trying to mingle with men who feel they should stay there.
AKDejaVu
Hehe thank you actually, you have calmed me quite a bit. Thats quite funny and tru.
I was worked up, cause what you describe may seem normal in the states, but when you look different, talk a different language, and are considered a different country than the guys kicking your ass, it feels like toejam. It feels like some foreigner is coming to your country, watching your girlfriends titties, and then kicks your ass.
You get my point?
-
Yep... I get your point Animal...
But I've never been a foreigner (soldier) in a country where most adolescent men did not go out of their way to remind me off that. Sometimes to the point of over emphasizing it.
Get my point?
-
I had no intention of kicking your ass.
-
Animal is a friggin whiner.......
I remember when the US was testing the cruise missile over northern Alberta many years ago.
A group of protesters used ballons and a net to try and catch the thing. Was a hilarious picture and one of the srupidest things I've seen (aside from this thread).
-
Originally posted by skernsk
Animal is a friggin whiner.......
I remember when the US was testing the cruise missile over northern Alberta many years ago.
A group of protesters used ballons and a net to try and catch the thing. Was a hilarious picture and one of the srupidest things I've seen (aside from this thread).
LOL, at least we dont try something as idiotic..
hehe, Canadians... :p What was the net made of?
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Yep... I get your point Animal...
But I've never been a foreigner (soldier) in a country where most adolescent men did not go out of their way to remind me off that. Sometimes to the point of over emphasizing it.
Get my point?
Oh I also get your point.
Neither do you have to stand gung-ho soldiers with Cowboys & Indians fever; or.. G.I's & Spics, as they used to call us between laughs.
I dont want to generalize on the American G.I, just this group in specific. I know they are rotten apples everywhere including the military, but these rotten apples seem to be increasing around that area.
-
What was the net made of?
It was a net...I assume Nylon or something? I wasn't there Animal.
-
It didnt fall where it shouldve did it?
-
Originally posted by skernsk
A group of protesters used ballons and a net to try and catch the thing.
Do you really wanna catch an armed Tomahawk? :)
-
It did not FALL on the beach. It fell into the sea as target drones often do and WASHED up on a beach like piece of driftwood.
-
Originally posted by Tac
It didnt fall where it shouldve did it?
Neither of us has anywhere near enough information to make a claim one way of the other.
-Sikboy
-
Heh, Animal wins, hands down.
-
Originally posted by mietla
Do you really wanna catch an armed Tomahawk? :)
They aren't armed during those tests.
I don't imagine those idiots were thinking, or are even capable of thinking. Even if they were succesful, a 1.5 ton object moving at 550 mph...
What is the point of interfering with the tests? Maybe they wanted to demonstrate a shortcoming in the design? Caveman mentality I think.
(No insult intended CavemanJ)
-
You are all wrong!
It's a Bass lure. Saw one like it in a Bass fishing thingie in Missouri.
:cool:
-
Animal, my most treasured offspring; I'd feel just as mad as you do under the circumstances regarding your 'experience' with the swabbies and their security detail.
You see, when I wuz a young lad, not unlike yourself; we got a lil annoyed about the Navy chewing up one of the Channel Islands off southern california at their leisure.. there was even film of a poor bedragled mountain goat that was hunted by F8 Crusader pilots.. fediddlein goat outsmarted the navy for weeks, was headline news in the LA area.
Much publicty was given to the horrible damage the eco system of the island was sustaining and one morning about 400 protestors landed on the island to 'occupy' it and keep it safe from the Navy.
This was around the time the Indians snatched up Alcatraz, and the Navy didn't want to get itself into a bigger hole than the FBI with their fiasco, so; they, in their typical government wisdom; waded in and clubbed heads and kicked the 400 off the island forcibly via Coast guard Cutters and the LA city jails... for tresspassing. Most of the violent resisters were pretty lumped up.
Every one of 'em was a white american dipshit, just like me. Cracker White American Citizens, beat all ta hell by American MP's! And some of 'em wern't white! Can you imagine the outcry??? :rolleyes: Boy, the stories I heard from some of those folks.. sounded just horrible. "You are under arrest for tresspassing." 'hey, diddly YOU, PIGS!' (..blinding blur of nightsticks) *whap*whap*whap* (followed by the 'kaa-thunk hissssssssssss of tear gas) "...and you are all now also charged with resisting arrest.." I was pissed for years!! Imagine the GALL of the government.. actually enforcing laws on their mandated property we didn't like!!!
A week or so later, another invasion was attempted. This one was met 6 miles off the island by the coast guard and a Navy Frigate. They were escorted back into Santa Barbra under gunpoint, and arrested as well. Henh. No score for the treehuggers. Shortly afterwards somebody dioscovered a link between the 'protesters' and a land development company that had in mind the 'development of the island' for the almighty megabuck.... and the Navy announced an ecological evaluation period and have since pulled out all the stops on gaining the upper hand Public Relations wize.. they even have a pretty website now..
San Clemente Island (http://www.scisland.org/)
Now, If I'm not mistaken, that pretty lil piece of property you guys were partying on was US Government Property. And it's government property some fat cat developer will no doubt make a pretty mint on if the USNavy can be driven off...
But i digress.. In essence, you folks dropped in on Uncle Sams Turf, doin partying instead of 'research' as the permit probably read; and as if that wasn't enuff, some bonehaid in your 'party' decided he'd display his immense nads by callin out the security detail which was no doubt sittin there doin what they was told to do... 'observe and report'. Oh, by the way; orders for engagement on governmet property are pretty clear cut.. violence is allowed. Oh, yes; even encouraged... imagaine what kinda toejam those troops would cave caught back at barracks the minute the word got around the locals trash talked 'em and they did nothin about it?
The words "no jury would convict" mean anything to yah?
Would you be so stupid as to walk up to an armed NYPD cop standing on the corner with his partner and trash talk him? Why on earth would you be surprised yer bonehaided new pal got the toejam kicked outta him for messin with a security detail?? Oh.. by the way; so sorry about the 'squeak slappin' the chickie got; but remember, the military has women too.. and the fellas and ladies in uniform don't give a toejam what gender the troubles commin from. amazinhunks are all equal, by training and government decree. ;)
In any case, I feel fer yah animal; gettin good scuba is almost as rare as good head.. but in this case, thats government property, and the Navy's to administer as it sees fit. If folks keep goin there and thumbin their noses at them, more tulips will be kicked.
and; That's Life. ;)
-
Was wonderen how long had been there as for floating long time ...NOPE look no algae or barnicles on the unit with would apear after 2 weeks or so. So wasnt to OLD hehe.
But to make Animal happy Id be willing to give PR to Cuba ..talk about asskickings then whoa piss off Castro like that and see how many happen.
-
I think its my old saop box racer. Hell, I thought that thing would sink.
-
Always wondered: Why doesn't P.R. want to become a state?
-
simple.
the US goverment gets huge benefits from PR being a commonwealth, and viceversa. its a win-win situation as it is now.
pr is a huge investment. currently the us makes more out of PR than the whole state of Utah. they send big moneys, but they get back almost twice.
we in exchange, use the money for our progress.
-
So statehood's out of the question?
-
Its not out of the question, but for the time being, seems like things will stay the way they are.
I predict sometime in the future PR will be a new star in the American flag. I hope it will be worth it then.
-
Animal I'm sorry those troops messed with your friends. Pretty lame. I don't know if what you guys were doing was legal but unless you were physically resisting there's no reason to get rough like that.
-
I'm pretty lost ...
I don't know US regulation but any French soldier slapping any civilian (french or not) without order is pretty sure to have 1 month jail ASAP.
and btw where were the officier in this group ?
It's anormal to have a group of soldier without one person in charge ...
Even if your friends were insulting or anything else , those soldier shouldn't have made any move without either an immediat need to preserve their life or an order by an officier.
-
Aw come on. Them ol boys was justa funnin'. 'Sides, there's nothin' wrong with a lil civilian slap-around. :)
-
I don't know US regulation but any French soldier slapping any civilian (french or not) without order is pretty sure to have 1 month jail ASAP.
I find that very difficult to believe given that slapping is the only hand-to-hand combat training a French soldier is given.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by Animal
pr is a huge investment. currently the us makes more out of PR than the whole state of Utah. they send big moneys, but they get back almost twice.
Got any links to sites that make and support this position? I'm always interested in learning.
-
Touché :)
ROTFL :)
-
Originally posted by Voss
They aren't armed during those tests.
I don't imagine those idiots were thinking, or are even capable of thinking. Even if they were succesful, a 1.5 ton object moving at 550 mph...
What is the point of interfering with the tests? Maybe they wanted to demonstrate a shortcoming in the design? Caveman mentality I think.
(No insult intended CavemanJ)
Now why in the world would ya think I'd take offense at that? Unless you think I have a caveman mentality and would think I would assume you left the J off intentially? :D
Hang that's a good summation of the ROE for government property. Depends alot on what's stored on that property. Some places I've been they can use lethal force without warning ya. Course there's usually a few signs there to impart to you how bad of an idea it would be to continue up that road :D
Moral: Don't mess with Uncle Sam in his own backyard.
-
AKDejaVu
HEHE! That was a good one!
-
Could be someone's radio controlled model that flew out of range...
-
Accident's happen around ranges in the states as well. Two civilians were killed on the military reservation at Fort McCoy Wisc. a decade or so ago because of an artillery range error. A similar incident happened on the East Coast about the same time when a National Guard unit overcharged a howitzer overshot the range and placed the round on an interstate highway. Fortunately no one was killed in that event.
Unfortunately, if you want to save lives and beat the enemy on the battlefield you have to do some dangerous things in training, but the training risks are greater to the soldiers than the civilians. It's not uncommon for any sizable exercise to generate some casualties.
Anyway, my understanding of the Vieques debate is that it is more a political football in the whole PR nationalism movement than an issue based on its merits alone. My understand is also that the Vieques range is fairly unique and irreplaceable, but all I'm going on is headlines and soundbites.
Charon
-
It's a BQM-74 target drone.
(http://www.iss.northgrum.com/products/navy_products/bqm74/images/bqm_4.jpg)
(http://halfdome.arc.nasa.gov/cfd/CFD4/New_Page/Pics/bqm_1.gif)
BQM-74E/CHUKAR SPECIFICATIONS
Length 12.95 feet
Diameter 1.1 feet
Wingspan 5.75 feet
Engine Williams International WR-24-8 turbojet, rated at 240 lb. of thrust
Speed range 200-540 knots
Altitude range (BQM-74E) 10-40,000 feet
(Chukar III) 10 ft (3 m)-40,000 ft (12,200 m)
Maximum range 520 nautical miles
(with extended range kit) 640 nautical miles
Maximum launch weight 595 pounds
Guidance Radio command or preprogrammed
-
Hang,
I remember the San Clemente Island incident very well. In fact, if you are from the Santa Barbara area I would guess that we may have been at a few of the same parties in Isla Vista. I went to College in SLO, but made the trek to SB many times. Female population was about 100 times better at UCSB, and had many friends living in IV. Remember dogshit park?
-
hate to say it DjV but thinking that Navy seamen know the first thing about hand to hand combat is a joke
Friend of mine just got back from basic and i can still kick his ass.
-
Moose.. if it was security... it was marines.
AKDejaVu
-
But that's because you are a hockey player moose. :)
-
navy pukes, air force sissies, army brats is one thing
wont mess with a marine though :)
<-hopes to be an air force sissy some day
-
When I'm in the Navy, I'll be sure to take up training in Puerto Rico. in order to take care of those pesky Puerto Rican whiners with some cluster munitions.
-
Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
When I'm in the Navy, I'll be sure to take up training in Puerto Rico. in order to take care of those pesky Puerto Rican whiners with some cluster munitions.
heh, too bad you will never be a fighter pilot in the navy :(
-
:( I'm sure.
-
And while you're at it send a PGM to La Fortaleza and get us rid of the handsomehunk for Governor we have in this island.
-
:( Man:( I'm feeling bad for nath 'cause he won't be a pile-it and and animal 'cause of all the krazy 'merican bombs fallin' everywhere. :( :(
-
Originally posted by hblair
:( Man:( I'm feeling bad for nath 'cause he won't be a pile-it and and animal 'cause of all the krazy 'merican bombs fallin' everywhere. :( :(
Whoah, You need booze