Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wutz on April 17, 2002, 09:21:13 AM
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Ok Fire away boys, would u like a roling plane set in the main arena too bring the whole war too MA not just 1944-45. I personaly would love it (only thing I think WarBirds is better than Aces High on) Think abouth advancing from the P-40c, Twd P-40e and all the way too the P51D (or why stop there, they could implement a RPS that coverd 1939-1946/47). Cool or????? (in my humble oppinion offcource)
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maybe.
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RPS w/the following year being cheap perks... or something like that.
-SW
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No. The whining scares my dog.
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No.
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Your posts say no, but your love for early war planes say yes!
-SW
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No RPS in the MA.
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I think RPS with modified perk system will be really cool on CT. Someone posted long ago an awesome year-based perk system that, I think, will work wonders.
I Don't think it would work in MA, business-wise.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Leave main arena alone, if it aint broke dont fix it. Sure didnt help warbirds.
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Leave RPS for something like the CT not the MA.
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"IN HTC WE TRUST"
:)
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I like the RPS but it seemed to cause a lot of players to quit playing WB. Early, mid and late war areas in a big arena seems to be a much better idea to me.
Hooligan
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So I guess the RPS is not welcome in the Main Arena. I personaly think MA would be a better arena with a RPS,,, but I see I am outnumberd (for now).
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It only takes one guy to outnumber you, Wutz. ;)
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RPS in CT would be an excellent idea. In MA, no. Perks are doing just fine.
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No, not in the MA.
Kuben
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The only reason I'd leave AH would be an RPS in the MA.
(There will always be people that insist you fly the planes they want but they never offer to pay for your account.)
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we dont have the panes to do any meaningful rps. Also I dont like the idea of only being able to fly a d9 2 or 3 days a tour.
The 152 we would get 1 day a tour. thats 12 days a year. What would happen is folks would fly the "best" plane from each time frame while the rest collect dust in the hanger.
Now in the ct it may not be bad with the allies vrs axis. Say we get a large med map with smaller maps like Sicily, North Afrika Greece (crete). where we could cycle through the maps and planes and have a virtual online theater war. But again we dont have the planes yet.
We have a solid late war eto. While AH has come along way since I have been here but we are still basically at the same point we were when I started. Theres a desire within the community to move beyond "just the main". The combat theater has so much potential but it is limited by planeset. The CT cms and terrains makers do a great job giving us decent competative setups. But take tunisia for instance. A lot of folks are put off by the inclusion of substitute aircraft. Especially those that perform well beyond the capability of the aircraft that were in theater at the time.
A p40, ju87, a36, b25, wellington, he111, p38f or g would add so much to the dynamic of the ct that I can see numbers in there hitting 100 easily. The pac set ups as well hit high numbers 30 -50 with all its limitations. The eastern front is particularly hit by the lack of planes.
I am not criticizing and I enjoy the fast past main. But lately I have been wanting more then the meat grinder. Ah has spoiled me I want more and I want it yesterday. But hey its a game and its fun.
I only like to fly lw planes and despite missing a few planes here and there its a solid planeset. I just dunno know if I can wait 2 years for an equally solid vvs planset. All the talk of ww2 air war or war in general it is on the eastern front where the epic battles where fought.
RPS for the main...no.
For the combat theater its just a matter of time.
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Originally posted by Wutz
Ok Fire away boys,
Nope. You need to have a place for the short-attention-span hotrodders to fly. Main Arena has been hugely successful at that. Best to keep it there so it can support the rest of us.
- oldman
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Now that we have a 109 for each era of the war how could I possibly have a problem with it?:D
Drano
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Nah,rolling planes-sets in CT..Sure!!!...1 map,2 sides,historical plane matchups..Every four hours the time moves ahead 1 year and cycles until war is won...Add a few perk planes etc and ....ugg..what a stupid idea!!!...:eek:
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Definitely in CT - 1939 - Spit1's vs E4's!!:)
2 sides only as well!!
Busher
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<<>> -Wotan
You can't really say that, but I'm sure it wouldn't be any different than it is now. Most people do fly the best aircraft in the MA as it stands now, it's just we don't have any of the really early-war aircraft yet except for the BoB stuff recently introduced. I'm sure the MA is swamped with BF-109Es, huh?
Hopefully one day we'll have an early-war set and I personally feel those aircraft and/or any RPS would best be served in the CT.
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yes i can say that and i did.
look at bob in the ct. folks that never flew lw planes were in there flying for the axis so much so that guys like me who always fly lw switched to fly mostly allies in order to get some balance.
When they learned the 109 wasn't as "good" as they thought the 110 was the plane of choice.
look at wbs rps early war you saw a lot of axis as it got to the later war you saw a lot allied.
Folks will fly what they percieve is the best plane. They did it in wbs rps they do it in the ct and they do it the main. So not only can I say, it I did, and I am right.
there should be no rps for the ah main. If anywhere it should be in the ct. But even then we currently dont have the planes to have anything close to a decent rps.
To even talk of an rps given the limited early, early mid. mid war aircraft available is premature.
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Originally posted by Yeager
RPS in CT would be an excellent idea. In MA, no. Perks are doing just fine.
What are doing perks fine???. A fite between a P51D and a 109E4?, or a Spit-V and a La7??. No one of those are perked.
What perks do well is a MA full of La7 - Niki - P51D - D9 - G10 and SpitIX.
This is a type of game as it is now, but not a fair game for who loves to fly early war planes, even mid war ones.
Not many early planes still though, but with a few more will be ready for a RPS.
What perks "may" do just fine in a modified RPS is perk heavily the planes for the next year/period, say not less than 60 perks.
As the RPS advances one period next planes are perked.
Make the RPS go fast, say one day per period and divide the war in 6 periods. So you can fly your fav ride twice a week, one perked, one unperked.
Yes, BRING RPS to MA. (after 4 o 5 more planes)
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Personally I like the RPS system. Wish they went to it a long time ago. Can speak for others just myself.
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it would work if tied to terrain reset.
every time terrain resets new planes available.
but there are many many more planes needed before an rps would ever work
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Wotan's right.
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RPS for MA nah for CT yes and right onw we're really shorthanded in early war planes,so for the time being no go.
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<> -Wotan
I actually agreed with your generalization, but I guess I stated it poorly. I still don't get the point that this "folks will fly the best plane" would make an RPS a bad thing because we already have people flying the "best" in the MA with those lesser performing aircraft (generalizing) collecting dust. In an RPS, just like now in the MA, there will still be people who want to grab something different just to be different or make things interesting which include those underdogs. However, in a rolling planeset, if the BF110 is the best, its capabilities aren't that much greater than its contemporaries as would an LA7 be vs that 110 or 109E. So in an RPS, at least for a short time, there is actually greater parity and some of those hangar queens will actually see some skies in abundance. And again, I agreed with you in that I think we do need more early-war aircraft before an RPS is viable as well as its place being in the CT or a dedicated RPS arena. But I *would* love to see an RPS at some point and somewhere.
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Wotan is saying that people will populate the side with the perceived best plane, and he's right.
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ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO NO NO NO!! GO TO WB IF YOU WANT A RPS!!
Hwkeye
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Hi
The rolling plane set was about the only thing I liked in Warbirds... well, that and the plane set that let it work.
With a better plane set I would love to see a rolling plane set in the MA.
CAV
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Yes, bring some more a/c and then lets *try* a good RPS.
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I would like RPS (with P=Perk point)... like SW suggested.
Everyone could fly any plane any time if they just paid enough for it compared to current free planes. Certainly the cost curve would have to be quite steep to prevent having e.g. too many Spit14:s in 1940 :)
The time could roll from 1939 to 1945 in 9 hours?? ....1,5 hours per year. Then one would get different years every night if he logs on at a certain time.
Or would 30 min per year be better? Waiting time for free late war planes would be shorter for those who most of time want to fly them.
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Not only NO.... but HELL NO !!!!!!! :mad:
The RPS, and then the Axis vs Allied Arena, were the REASON I LEFT WB's for AH in the first place.
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Originally posted by Hooligan
I like the RPS but it seemed to cause a lot of players to quit playing WB. Early, mid and late war areas in a big arena seems to be a much better idea to me.
Hooligan
Lazs? Is that you?
:)
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say what yo9u want but as we get more planes the flaws of the perk system become more apparent. We can't replace it with an RPS because everyone knows that pisses people off...
We can't have seperate arenas because they don't really work either.. The Ct is ok for RPS but it is deserted at some "historical" times.. Not everyone likes the limitations that axis vs allied bring... An RPS is limited enough without further limiting it with silly allied vs axis crap.
So what is left? I put forth the area arena idea. guys like nuttz claim that it is no big deal to seperate the areas. I can't imagine anyone being against the area idea unless they simply are not happy unless they can beat up inferior planes with far superior ones... Seems pee 51, D9, lag7 yak etc. guys would be thrilled to be fighting er, "like minded" types
lazs
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Negative Lazs...I prefer to bully my prey...not interested in anything fair.
Cyas Up!:)
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I think I'd go with no... I like early war planes :)
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Only real problem I can see is it may cut out many squads that are based on later war planes. This really is a good thing for the CT. Then again the Ct doesn't seem to be catching on nearly as much as the MA.
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Could you imagine someone just discovering AH and wanting to fly his favorite of the 52 planes modeled, only to find that that plane won't be available until it comes around in the rotation? NOT a good selling point IMO.
Leave the MA alone. The CT should be the place to experiment so people can have a choice, then if it becomes wildly popular and the numbers mirror the MA as it is now bring it to the MA, but not before!
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Possibly, but maybe not. At first I wasn't thinking sides and I pictured an RPS that isn't Allied vs Axis. But the CT (which typically has a limited plane set) is broken into sides and for the most part tends to even itself out. I don't see why the players in some RPS arena couldn't do the same. And yeah, I've chosen a side with a plane-set which isn't my favorite in order to even the sides, but I'm not the only one to do this so I can't say everyone would go for the best aircraft making things lopsided. I don't know, I still don't see an RPS being unfeasible. But my crystal ball isn't any better than anyone else's. I'd like it to be tried when we have the aircraft for it. In fact, I think an RPS is the only way to make it feasible to get some good time in on some of the early war aircraft.
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It works like this, Steven. If the purpose of RPS is to give people a realistic opportunity to fly planes that are totally outclassed by latewar rides and to increase the variety of planes seen, it seems on the surface to be an excellent idea. The trouble is, and no matter which way you do the arena (MA, Allied vs. Axis) there will be a perceived "best plane" and people will gravitate to it. A common complaint we have now is that people fly Spits, Nikkis, and La7s. RPS doesn't solve this tendency in people, it merely switches out the characters.
The King is dead, Long Live The King!
See what Wotan is talking about? The sky will still be filled predominantly with , and in essence the RPS will have failed to accomplish its purpose.
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While I enjoyed the WB RPS, I am not advocating it here because I understand that many players are not skilled enough to enjoy flying early war planes. ;)
However I maintain that an RPS does:
1. Increase variety. Although many players do tend to find the "best" planes in any stage of the RPS, those "best" planes do change over the course of the RPS, and more planes will get used. More planes = more variety.
2. Provide an environment where early war planes are more viable. (This is so obvious that it needs no explaination.)
3. Shift the advantage to different nations. As the war progressed, each nation enjoyed short term advantages, while its adversary produced designs to counter. More variety.
4. Provide an historical viewpoint for the player, as he progresses from early war turnfighters with peashooters, to late war cannon boomers.
Still, I vote No.
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No RPS for MA.
RPerkS Axis vs Allies CT!!
Here's an example. For a Luftwaffe RPerkS.
1939-41 Channel Front
109E-4
110C-4
Ju-88
Stuka (when available)
He-111 (If it ever becomes available)
perk
109F-4
190A-3 (when available;))
I definatley see this working when the time comes In the CT. But for now with some holes in PS, Its not even worth arguing about.
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<> -Kieren
I'm not advocating an RPS in the MA, but would like to see one later in the CT.
I actually do get your point in and of itself, but I do not get your point as being an argument against an RPS. If this problem of favoring the best already occurs in the MA, then why complain about the RPS bringing this "best-value" mentality? You are right, an RPS doesn't solve this particular mentality which is not the purpose of an RPS, but it doesn't make it any worse either. However, the one thing an RPS does allow is for ME AND OTHER EARLY-WAR FANS to fly our F4F's and Hurri I's and not be SLAUGHTERED all the time for the few days the arena only allows early-war aircraft. Switching out the characters seems great to me.
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The only thing I can tell you is what I have seen with my own eyes. Sure, RPS will let you fly early-war planes- but what happens? People will gravitate to the best early-war plane, therefore defeating one of the main values of RPS-variety.
Yes, it's a different "uber-ride", but there is always a dominant fighter.
Combine RPS with an Axis/Allied arena and you have 75% one side, 25% another. This in not just me talking, this is evidenced by WB over months of play. Needless to say many players found this to be less than enchanting.
FWIW, I am all for early-war, and find them the most fun to fly. I'll do you one better- I love WWI better than WWII. That doesn't matter though. Consider this; AH has grown by what percentage over the last six months? Has a lack of RPS hurt growth? Could it possibly bring more people through the door? Is it far more likely to push people out the door?
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<> -Kieran
I'm not sure who you are trying to argue with, but if it's me, I never said an RPS should replace the MA. How will having an RPS (MA style or Axis/Allies style) chase anyone away? I think you read with blinders on or something and just like to argue. Oh wait, there's "always a dominant fighter"...I missed that part and now you've convinced me that an RPS is unnecessary. I mean, if the LA7 is always dominant, no sense in letting the Zeke be dominant for a little while. ;-)
Nice name though. I don't know how you pronounce Kieran, but I am gonna guess it's similar to the "Kirin" beer I'm drinking right now. Banzai!
Woohooo on the Wildcats, HTC!
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Uhh, I think you are misreading my "tone". I am not trying to argue, just explaining my point of view.
I disagree with RPS in general. I don't happen to think it is a good idea anywhere. Far better to do what has already been done in the CT, ie select a time frame, set up a map and drop in the nearest a/c to match the time and place. And far, far better to never bring it the MA at all. This I say to all as much as I say to you, so don't take that personally.
RPS did more to hurt WB than it did to help, bank on that.
I will point out you are ignoring the part of my argument I am trying hardest to make- RPS creates an imbalance. This is one of the supposed reasons to use it, and it fails- worse so in a CT-like environment. And as many others have already stated, many people will not stand for RPS, ergo you are shoving them out the door.
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An rps in a three side war with all countries having access to the same planes would by bs.
As soon as 1 plane shows it self to be better, or is thought to be better almost everyone will be flying it. The when the next stage comes along the next best plane then the next.
Some of the same hanger queens we have now will be hanger queens then.
I hope the main never has an rps. I only really like to fly a few planes in the main and to put them to the point where I get 2 or 3 days a tour to fly umm would be enough for me to say cya.
I would be too complicated to cycle an rps through a reset cycle and pointless to run by 1/2 or 1 hour segments.
The ct has an axis allies set up and focuses around certain time frames and theaters. As the planset expands it may be possible to set up a virtual online war cycling through different time frames over a theater. example next ct setup Pac war start to finish over a ct tour. The next tour a Med set up then cycle through it for a tour.
But as it stands we dont have the planes for even a half way decent rps even with the ones coming in 1.10.
Keep the main a fast paced meat grinder and lets develop the ct to be where the historic match ups take place. This we we have a place for both.
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I liked the rolling plane set in Warbirds, but I think it was certainly one factor in the decline in popularity of that sim. It didn't appeal to all tastes and all skill levels (I personally found it a real challenge to fly those early-war aircraft, but for many people challenge is not what it's all about, and that needs to be recognized, much as I don't personally approach the game with that mentality). So I think no RPS in the MA.
I also don't think it should be implemented in the CT. The kind of specialized scenarios that are being offered now are great, and offer a lot of variety in terms of what you are forced to fly.
As the customer base grows, it may be possible down the line to envision another arena (and this may not be very far off), which features a combination of an RPS, no-icon environment, and no killshooter. Given how sparsely attended the CT is at times, however, I just feel the sim needs to grow a little bit more in order to achieve a critical mass for anything else other than the MA. The continuing success of this sim is going to be founded on two interrelated things: growth, and choice. And, again, much as I really like RPS, it presents an inolerable restriction for too many people for it to really work in anything more than a specialized context.
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well... a few have said that i complain without offering sugestions to fix the problem. I see a lot of complaining about the RPS and the lack of a viable place for early war planes and the fact that late war perk planes are so expensive but... I see very few solutions except my "area" arena.
Sure... if there aren't enough good planes in each area people will be flying the one or two good ones but... I don't see having any problem modling at least 4-5 very comparible early war planes that would all have strengths and weaknesses against each other. More in the mid war area and about the same in the late war area. Really rude... wouldn't you love to fight against planes with equal abilities? No more calling you a sissy runstang pilot?
I don't want the CT to be the only place we can fly early war planes because it is allied vs axis and it is deserted most times and... no one in my squad even considers it. And... they are mean to me in there.
So let's hear some solutions... Or... I would love to hear why people wouldn't like an "area" arena with three seperate areas in the same arena. One bitg communityu where anyone could fly any plane they liked anytime simply by clicking on the appropriate field. Early war planes available in all areas, mid war in mid and late areas and late in late war only areas.
Wotan......Again... axis vs allied exagerates the "best plane" concept. giving you no choice but to be B&Zed to death or to swithch sides. MA style let's the strengths and weaknesses of all the planes work for us. The fast plane can't B&Z your slower plane with immunity as much becaus an identical plane to his may run him down for doing it. An area arena would have at least twice as many viable planes in each "area" as an allied vs axis would have in it's simular "time period". Plus, you could simply click your way to another era and set of viable planes.
I would start by simply having an early war "area" in the current arena.
lazs
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Hi
The one thing I remember about WB was....
It had a MA that had a open plane set and never had anyone playing there.
And there was an WW2A that had a RPS and was alway full. The only bad thing about a axis vs allied plane set was.... No axis heavy bombers.
Also in WB was Fighter Ops (EZ mode)... They ran a RPS but, wasn't axis vs allied, it was 3 or 4 sided like the MA. I was never a great fan of EZ mode but, the RPS did work there and it worked well.
But at this time I think AH has to few planes for a working RPS,,, read this as to few Early war planes and to many late war planes.
CAV
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CAV,
The reason the MA in WB was empty is that everyone who liked that enviroment, and disliked the WWII Arena (I predicted it would be a squad killer and I believe history of WB will prove me right) moved to Aces High. Those who constantly complained about 'strategy' and 'realism' think the WWII Arena is/was the best thing since sliced bread. The MA was viable but to really be able to furball and fly you were FORCED to fly the WWII Arena (ie where there were people flying)
Aces High truly is, for the greater population of online sim buffs, an excellent sim both in it's entertainment value and it's monetary value.
I say let HiTech Creations fulfill their vision. Let us, as true enthusiasts, participate in their vision and find excitement and challenge in this great undertaking of theirs. Look at the numbers on WB vs. AH on any given night and I think everyone will appreciate just how well HiTech et al are doing in providing us with a well balanced, online flight simulation.
The constant sniping and trolling by folks is so god-awfully boring and tedious.
Lets go fly!
Hwkeye
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I feel like we should have trumpets blaring and light show to go with this :p
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